Favourite Star Wars quotes...

[Tenric Starkindler]

Han to Luke in ROTJ:
"How we doin'?"

Luke: "Same as always." (I might be wrong here)

Han: "That bad huh?"

[Novastar]

Now as far as I can tell from your post, Novastar, you "fully disagree" with my analysis of Anakin because Anakin turned back to the light side.

No, I disagree because (as I mentioned) the character is full/rife with actions. Actions that cannot be summed up into a black & white caricature. Even for a "character in a play/film". Humans are like this too--hard to sum up in one fell swoop... although we often do. And THAT is my point--this is open to INTERPRETATION. Facts often get mixed into interpretations. That is why they are so hard to flesh out at times.

Also, you mentioned that people can't be categorized as "good" or "evil," though you don't seem to give any reason, except that people should be judged by their actions, and presumably no person has "entirely" evil actions or "entirely" good actions (Even Hitler did not do evil with every action, and even Mother Theresa did not do good with every action - right?).

Yup, I agree here... and the only amendment I should make is... I should NOT have said "can't be categorized"... only that people SHOULDN'T be categorized: if the basis is to be on FACTS. But we live in a world subject to our interpretations... and to be honest--that is where *I* feel we get "truths". To me... truth is merely a mixture of fact + "relatively intelligent assertions/interpretations based on many facts".

For example, if I murder 28 people, but (one day) spare the life of someone... it would be a relatively TRUE thing to the world for people to say: "That person is evil/wrong/bad/mean/jerk-like." And hopefully, I would be brought to justice. But it is still not a FACT that you "are" evil by having a > amount of "bad" (according to the world) actions vs. having a < amount of "good (according to the world) actions.

Good & evil are emotional/conceptual labels that get attached to certain ACTIONS. It is the actions that are factual (Dude X murdered/killed 28 people)... not the label that is then given to the person BASED on such actions...

In fact, just the circumstances ALONE could change your perspective! What if the dude X murdered 28 people who HE believed to be evil... and spared the 1... because he thought they were good?? What if, in order to POSSIBLY save OTHER lives (in the future)... this person murdered those 28 people? It's all open to interpretation. Maybe there are facts hidden in there... maybe not. But however you slice it, "good & evil" are NOT facts.

Now on another point you brought up. Putting emotion in the mix does not make a statement somewhere between true and false. "* I painted my house green and it uplifted me, giving me a fresh outlook on the entire house = MIXTURE"
If someone went around telling people that painting your house green made you depressed, you would think "that's not true, it uplifted me, not depressed me." Of course, not everyone will feel the same emotion upon viewing your newly painted house, but the fact that you feel uplifted does not change. It would still be absolutely true.

To a certain extent, ok--truth "for me". But in general, absolutely not. Feelings are not facts. My feelings may change the next day--maybe the next day, I'll think: "What am I thinking? Painting that house WAS a stupid idea!!!! I'm a moron--I'll never do that again." So now, suddenly we have to amend the "facts" and say ok, he felt good about it "for a little bit". It's too emotional.

It's a mixture. Painted the house = FACT. How I "felt" about it = NOT A FACT.

In general, from MY interpretation of things... you are confusing "fact" with "truth". Facts are pretty much 99% indisputable from EVERYONE'S perspective here on earth, under our observations of the way earth + nature behaves.

TRUTHS... are interpretations of those facts... and open to dispute in some shape or form from person X to person Y. Although certain facts (sometimes) still remain parts of such truths.

But it is still true that those who do, do, and those who don't, don't. Those who are in between, are in between. But there's nothing ambiguous about it to the individual.

Hmm. You say that, but people's individual perspectives are subject to change at any given moment.

A fact or numerous facts ARE NOT subject to change at any given moment. Well... not if they truly are facts!

I might "believe" (truly!!!!) that 2+2=769... and do so with great passion, research, study, and heartful honesty in my heart. It doesn't make it true (for the mostpart)--as it doesn't follow for 99% of the rest of the known world... and it DEFINITELY IS NOT A FACT. It might be true for a little while... but the day I discover that 2+2 actually =4... my "truth" will be broken, won't it? So then... was it EVER really "true"? Only when I believed it?? Ummm... ok. But not after that?? Um... I guess. It's confusing. Is it still true that "it WAS the truth" that 2+2=769 when I didn't KNOW 2+2=4??? *****KERPOW, [brain explodes]*****

I just say stick with the facts. Emotional connotations and labels are for drama, movies, human reaction, laughter, fun and all that. Not for science though!!

[Tenric Starkindler]

@ Luke Sky-Marcher:

....SO... in summation, Skymarcher:

I fully disagree with you. Your "facts" and "truths" (even in this fantasy-based SW world)... are inaccurate.

I also believe that a human is defined by their ACTIONS (whether as a "character in a story"... or a true, living man like you or me or your neighbor with the painted house).

And a human can't be summed up in a black & white box stamped "evil" or "good". The world is not so black & white, I'm afraid.

In terms of SW "facts":

* Anakin turned to the dark-side at one point = FACT
* Anakin was once part of the light-side = FACT
* I was once 25 years old = FACT
* Anakin watched his mother die = FACT
* Anakin is evil, was evil, or is good, was good = BELIEVE

When you attach emotional qualities to facts... they tend to get distorted... as you have a MIXTURE of fact + fiction/believe. For example:

* Anakin became forever evil by turning to the dark-side at one point = MIXTURE
* Anakin's life was in turmoil when he discovered his mother and had to watch her die = MIXTURE
* When I was 25 years old, I was in better physical shape than I am now = MIXTURE
* I painted my house green and it uplifted me, giving me a fresh outlook on the entire house = MIXTURE

Hmm.

Anyhow.

Yoda: Yes, run! Yes, a Jedi's strength flows from the Force. But beware of the dark side. Anger, fear, aggression; the dark side of the Force are they. Easily they flow, quick to join you in a fight. If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will, as it did Obi-Wan's apprentice.
Luke: Vader... Is the dark side stronger?
Yoda: No, no, no. Quicker, easier, more seductive.
Luke: But how am I to know the good side from the bad?
Yoda: You will know... when you are calm, at peace, passive. A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense, never for attack.
=====================================
Luke: There's something not right here... I feel cold. Death.
Yoda: That place... is strong with the dark side of the Force. A domain of evil it is. In you must go.
Luke: What's in there?
Yoda: "Only what you take with you."
=====================================

If a man is to be judged by his actions, then he must be judged also by the results of his actions. If for the good then we must say his intent was good, if for evil then the obverse.
Those whose actions are predominately evil show themselves to be just that.

OH....and to further the actual thread....
those also qualify as some of my favorite quotes because they set many things in perspective for me when I first heard them in 1980.

[Obi-Dar Ke-Gnomie]

Some of the best quotes came from Han Solo.

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

"Wonderful girl. Either I'm going to kill her or I'm beginning to like her."

(As the garbage compactor closes in.)
"One thing's for sure, we're all gonna be a lot thinner."

Han: "Afraid I was gonna leave without giving you a goodbye kiss?"
Leia: "I'd just as soon kiss a Wookiee."
Han: "I can arrange that. He could use a good kiss."

"You like me because I'm a scoundrel. There aren't enough scoundrels in your life."

Echo Base Officer: "Your Tauntaun will freeze before you reach the first marker!"
Han: "Then I'll see you in Hell!"

C3PO: His high exaltedness, the Great Jabba the Hutt, has decreed that you are to be terminated immediately.
Han: Good, I hate long waits.
C3PO: You will therefore be taken to the Dune Sea, and cast into the pit of Carkoon, the nesting place of the all-powerful Sarlaac.
Han: Doesn't sound so bad.
C3PO: In his belly you will find a new definition of pain and suffering as you are slowly digested over a thousand years.
Han: On second thought, let's pass on that, huh?

There are many more. I think Han got all the best lines, and gave them the best delivery. Maybe that's why he was the only one to have a good career after Star Wars.

[Sunrider]

Hehe; yes yes to Obi Dar you listen.

"If only you'd attached my legs, I wouldn't be in this ridiculous position. Now remember, Chewbacca, you have a responsibility for me, so don't do anything foolish!"

[Luke-SkyMarcher]

I think, Novastar, that I mostly agree with you. The differences are this:

*What you refer to as "truth" I have been referring to as people's opinions/beliefes.

*What I refer to as "truth" is mostly similar to what you refer to as "fact," EXCEPT that what I am referring to as truth does not have to be agreed upon by 99% of the people to become truth/fact. It may not be recognized as such, but it is still there, waiting to be discovered. (For example, whether bigfoot exists or not is a matter of fact, but we don't really know the "facts" or "truth" yet.)

I think we are referring to basically the same things, but differences in how you define a word can make it seem different.


Now, on to something else: you said "people's individual perspectives are subject to change at any given moment."
This is, in fact, true. My statement should be modified to include a time frame, for example: "At 2:00 pm on Tuesday, Dec. 18, Novastar felt uplifted from painting his house green." Now as long as you actually did, then the statement would always be true (or "a fact" if you prefer), absolutely everywhere for all people in all circumstances. The statements considering what other people felt could be modified similarly.



I do have a bone to pick with one of your other statements: "...however you slice it, "good & evil" are NOT facts."

For the sake of brevity, let us define "That which defines 'good & evil' or 'right and wrong'" as "morals."
Now there are only two possibilities with morals: they are either real or imaginary.

If they are real, then they exist outside of us, like scientific laws. If they are real, then they are fact: they are what they are, whether we agree or not, whether we like it or not, and even whether we know it or not.

If morals are imaginary, then we made them up. If they are imaginary, they are personal preference, like taste in ice cream. I might say "mint ice cream is best" while someone else will say "chocolate ice cream is best." Neither of us mean that our taste is really best, we are just expressing what we prefer. It would be absurd to say "mint ice cream is morally superior to chocolate." If morals are imaginary, they are like that.

While this second option is at first very attractive to many people, it has several problems.
Consider this: you have no basis for saying Hitler was actually wrong for killing 6 million Jews, simply because they were Jews. Sure, you can say you don't like it, but then you're tastes are no more important than anyone else's. And anyway, why should anyone care what you like?
In fact, you have no basis for saying that Martin Luther King Jr. was actually any better than Hitler.
If morals are imaginary, you cannot say that (for example) feeding hungry children is better than torturing and then killing them.

The logical outcome of believing that morals are imaginary leads you in the end to absolute silence on moral matters. After all, if morals are imaginary, than it's a matter of taste, whatever you like. And why should you impose your taste on someone else?

Saying that " "good & evil" are NOT facts." falls into the category of morals being imaginary, mere taste.

As soon as you admit that killing Jews because they are Jews is wrong, or that Martin Luther King Jr. really was morally superior to Hitler, you have ceased to believe that morals are imaginary, and are claiming that they are, in fact, real.

What trips a lot of people up is confusing absolute morals (another way of saying morals are real) with absolute actions.

Consider the example of Mr. X taking the life of 28 people. If he's defending his family from bandits, he's considered a hero. If he is the bandit, killing people to enrich himself, he's considered a villain.

In both cases, the actions are basically the same. In both cases, the same morals exists. Consider:
It is good and noble for a man to defend his family.
It is evil for someone to kill others simply for the sake of enriching himself.

The morals do not change in the circumstance. What changes is which ones apply to the particular situation. Of course, real life is much more complex, and there are many different morals applicable to any given situation. Also there is the fact that people disagree about certain morals. But just because they disagree does not mean that there is no right answer. People disagree about the existence of bigfoot, too. Yet we know that there is a right answer.

Well, it was a long bone to pick, but hopefully you understand my point.

Luke


(Yes, that really is my real first name, and no, I did not have it changed to that)

[Nineteen]

The truth is what I say it is.

There, discussion over.

[Eco]

Maybe you all should start a new thread about this.
The thread hijack continues... and it's making the thread less fun to read.


This one's not from a movie, but from the TFU.
"General Kota and his men are attacking a critical Imperial Shipyard. etc blah blah blah".
I just like the way Vader says 'critical'!

[Nineteen]

Wedge: "Good shot Janson!"

Brings a smile to my face every time. I like how he says "shot."

[Obi-Dar Ke-Gnomie]

The Emperor had some great lines too. I'll have to watch Ep. 6 again to refresh my memory, but one of the most chillingly delivered lines was:

"Now, young Skywalker, you will die."

Just the way he said that line was so dark and creepy.

(On a side note, maybe Lord Maul can split the topics for us.)