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Thread: Weird recharge phenomenon?

  1. #1

    Default Weird recharge phenomenon?

    So I recharge my new saber with my Tenergy Universal Smart Charger (For 2.4-7.2V Ni-Cd/Ni-MH Battery Packs), and something weird happens. I plug it in. Check to make sure the red light is steady and not blinking. An hour or two later, the light is green. I unplug it, press the switch, and nothing happens. The same thing had happened when I recharged before it was complete. That first time, I figured I had messed up the wiring, so I dissected it and checked. Nope. Wiring's fine. I push the switch again, and what do you know, it works. Hm. Just one of those things, I figure, and put it back together. But today (after it was finished), I plugged it into the charger for the second time...and the same thing happened. I tried removing the batteries and (after checking to make sure they were actually charged) put them back. Nothing. I tried plugging a plastic kill switch into the charge port and removing it. Nothing. I push and push, and nothing happens. Then I push again, and it works! And I notice something. The only difference between that last push and the previous pushes, as far as I can tell, is that my finger was touching the charge port!

    Next time I recharge it, I'll try to reproduce the same thing to see if I'm right, but I have a strong hunch that somehow some static charge left in the charge port after unplugging was keeping the Hasbro board from reacting to the momentary switch. Touching the port must have dissipated the charge and allowed the circuit to be completed. At least, that's my working theory.

    Has anyone else had anything like this happen? I have another saber that uses the same 1999 Hasbro Qui-Gon board, but I've never had this problem with that saber. The (perhaps crucial) difference between the two sabers is that this one uses 3 aaa Ni-MH batteries, whereas the older one uses 4. (Exact same type of battery, BTW.) And the older one uses a cyan Luxeon III whereas the new one uses a white K2. I can't think of any other significant difference. They even use the same guarded momentary switch.

    There's always a bigger fish.

  2. #2

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    That's kinda crazy but it reminds me of the old "Magic/More Magic" switch story in the Jargon file *rummages for a link* Ah! Here we go! All before my time of course, but a great story and an update that you'll find familiar!

    http://www.retrologic.com/jargon/magic-story.html
    The day may come when the courage of men fails...
    ...But it is not this day! This day – We FIGHT!

  3. #3
    Council Member Novastar's Avatar
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    It's not uncommon to have recharge port issues with sabers, when you look at some of the possible "common" similarities that recharge setups will often yield (no matter the saber, no matter the cell type, no matter the charger):

    * Recharge port usually has SOME kind of metal body parts
    * Hilt usually is made of metal
    * Recharge port usually is attached directly to the hilt
    * If a "kill power to the board" option is wired in... only ONE line is usually being cut to the board

    Any of the above can result in "bizarre" grounding issues. Not necessarily, but... they CAN result in shorts/grounding.

    A few ways to confirm this:

    * Remove all wiring from the saber hilt... put the saber hilt 3 feet to your left (heheh). Try to reproduce the previous "didn't start up" problem. If you can't reproduce it... take one GALDARN guess where the problem is...

    * Take the charge port (and kill) entirely out of the equation for now. As in, hard wire the cells to the board's power leads. Use a quick-disconnect to cut the power for now. Can you reproduce the
    problem? If you can't reproduce it... take one GALDARN guess where the problem is...

    I have been encountering these kinds of issues with my Flange III sabers ever since I started using 2.1mm charge ports for them. It's the metal bodies of the switch housings. I have to figure out how to isolate them. It's a pain in the butt...
    ~~ GREYTALE NOVASTAR (Writer, Director, Choreographer, Sound Designer, Actor, Saber Designer, Vocal Artist)
    ~~ Balance of Power, EP I: "Into The Lion's Den"
    ~~ Balance of Power, EP II: "Ashes of The Phoenix"
    ~~ The Crystal Focus Sound CD Compendiums... are HERE! ~~
    ~~ Nova & Caine's Staged Combat System... comin' SOON!
    ~~ Crystal Focus Wiring Guide

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anavrin View Post
    That's kinda crazy but it reminds me of the old "Magic/More Magic" switch story in the Jargon file *rummages for a link* Ah! Here we go! All before my time of course, but a great story and an update that you'll find familiar!

    http://www.retrologic.com/jargon/magic-story.html
    What a great story! That made my morning. Classic MIT. When I spent a year at Harvard, I had a few opportunities to interact with the faculty and students down the street at MIT, and it was everything I imagined it would be. Just like Doonesbury.

    Quote Originally Posted by Novastar View Post
    It's not uncommon to have recharge port issues with sabers, when you look at some of the possible "common" similarities that recharge setups will often yield (no matter the saber, no matter the cell type, no matter the charger):
    <snip>
    I have been encountering these kinds of issues with my Flange III sabers ever since I started using 2.1mm charge ports for them. It's the metal bodies of the switch housings. I have to figure out how to isolate them. It's a pain in the butt...
    I figured it has something to do with that very issue. Fortunately, this isn't a saber I'm going to sell to anyone, and I've explained to the friend I made it for how to "reset" the saber by touching the recharge port after pulling the jack out. I am hoping to make and sell a couple of these "petit" sabers, though, so I think I'll just forgo the recharge port when I do.
    There's always a bigger fish.

  5. #5
    Council Member Novastar's Avatar
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    I would confirm and isolate the problem before assuming it's just what I said.

    Also... I imagine a work around could be found. For example, some of my super-simple sink-tube sabers have the recharge port kinda "stuffed" INSIDE the saber, and are accessible by unscrewing the bottom cap. These ones have shielded pins, and so... it's impossible for anything to short out.

    This doesn't take away from the "easy to do" recharging (or really even if they needed a 'kill' option)... and yet the solution completely disallows a possible short to... well... WHATEVER! Can't short to the hilt, can't short to another wire, can't short to the user, can't even be damaged since it's safe inside the hilt.

    It's just another way to look at things...
    ~~ GREYTALE NOVASTAR (Writer, Director, Choreographer, Sound Designer, Actor, Saber Designer, Vocal Artist)
    ~~ Balance of Power, EP I: "Into The Lion's Den"
    ~~ Balance of Power, EP II: "Ashes of The Phoenix"
    ~~ The Crystal Focus Sound CD Compendiums... are HERE! ~~
    ~~ Nova & Caine's Staged Combat System... comin' SOON!
    ~~ Crystal Focus Wiring Guide

  6. #6

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    Thanks, Novastar. I'm pretty sure it's a grounding fluke, but I'll take your advice and check it out.
    There's always a bigger fish.

  7. #7

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    Speaking of grounding and insulation, has anyone ever seen something like an O-ring with a groove on the outer perimeter that will fit into a hole of the right size in a pipe or metal panel? I feel like I've seen such things in commercial products (unrelated to sabers), and was thinking that something like that would be useful for holding a crystal in a crystal chamber. And this thread made me think it might be useful for insulating a recharge port from the surrounding hilt.

    EDIT: The kind of thing I'm thinking of is the second from the right.

    Unfortunately, the Wikipedia article on O-rings where I found this image has nothing to say about this design. "B" would be the thickness of the pipe wall or panel, "E" would be the diameter of the hole it goes into. "A" is the diameter of whatever sits in the hole (in this case, the threaded portion of the recharge port).
    Last edited by Matt Thorn; 03-05-2009 at 01:13 AM.
    There's always a bigger fish.

  8. #8

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    search for grommets
    Eventually you figure it out

    A good start to answers to your first questions =http://forums.thecustomsabershop.com/showthread.php?t=6430
    The road to knowledge lies in reading

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by bubbalew View Post
    search for grommets
    Brilliant! Thank you. What a British-sounding word. "Grommet." Sounds like a magical device or creature from Harry Potter.
    There's always a bigger fish.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Thorn View Post
    Brilliant! Thank you. What a British-sounding word. "Grommet." Sounds like a magical device or creature from Harry Potter.
    You might be thinking of that Brit "modern Classic" (how I loathe that term) Wallace and Grommet.

    Who would name a dog that?
    The day may come when the courage of men fails...
    ...But it is not this day! This day – We FIGHT!

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