dueling tips for TOTMJ

[Count Malik]

Thanks keep 'em coming!

[chase]

I agree with everyones tips, but I'd going to add my own now.

Most of the fight will always be lightsaber against lightsaber. Change it up with an occasional kick or punch to keep the audience guessing.

[Jedi-Loreen]

And don't get too crazy with the "Force pushes", people might not know, or can't really see, what you're doing.

[Novastar]

Not to be rude, but... I'd have to disagree with most everything Agash said. Being "overly vocal" during a lightsaber battle will make it seem a bit more like a martial arts battle... and even here, you don't have yells and screams every few seconds (well, in good ones). Example: Jackie Chan stuff, even stuff as far back as the Shaw brothers MA movies.

Camera angles are important to film combat, but an OTS viewpoint can be common and is not wrong in any way. In fact, it's used often.

Additionally, for more high level staged/film combat... the moves CERTAINLY can be done to confuse the audience with actions that both mix attack and defense. It just depends on the style you're going for. It's usually not so present in "lightsaber combat" seeing as... one hit... and yer dead. However, Jackie Chan and Jet Li are seen doing this (attack vs. counterattack) all the time. Primarily because you can HIT someone multiple times. Which is why MA combat is a LOT easier to "sell" vs. sword or saber in most cases.

Unless you're Yuen Wo Ping, and then... you're... just... GOD!!!

Finally, as for showing "realism" in fighting in film or on the stage... it's not very entertaining. Unless it's some "mass war" where you have "Hero X" cutting down enemy after enemy... and even then... only the singular "kill" moves against opponents could be considered realistic. Hard to explain, but... for the mostpart, you will never find some film/staged fight that can't be analyzed to death to show where "he should have done X or Y and killed the dude".

It's funny, I remember speaking with Ryan W. from Ryan vs. Dorkman some years ago--they were saying that their moves "couldn't have happened any other way"--which I assume was following suit with what Nick Gillard said about TPM with Maul v Obi. I hate to say it, but... it's just never true. In almost ANY situation, you can attack ANY target at most ANY time (or parry/defend somewhere of your choosing). The question is... what do *YOU* choose as a choreographer, and what feels right for the performer and so forth.

What WILL happen over a good amount of time is... moves will begin to feel "natural" to performers--once things have been rehearsed a multitude of times and muscle memory takes over.

This is important with most any aspect of life... whether it's "tricking" or martial arts or saber battling... or speaking sentences or typing on a keyboard. The more natural it APPEARS... the more "real" it will look to an audience of any kind.

[Agash]

Different people different opinions, no offend taken.
I would say - take the style which suits your lvl of skill and your personal fitness.
Because mostly everything can be done if you plan it carefully, but it has to suit you and you have to feel comfortable with it, to act believable during the choreo.

[Mandalorian]

Make the choreography flow smoothly so that you don't have to think about it while dueling. The more you practice, the faster you will be. Match yourself to your opponent so that one of you isn't waiting for the other person to make a move. For example, don't have someone blocking behind their back, waiting for the other person to spin around and attack there.

Also, after making some duels, I think that next time, I'm going to try to film it and watch it, then film it again. That way, I can see where improvement is needed. I failed to do that on my previous duels, so that's something I would recommend.

In the end, do whatever it takes to make a duel that you're happy with. If you're not happy with it, then it was a waste IMO. Your opinion is what matters most for your duel. Sure the rest of us might say, "You're too slow," or, "That's not realistic," but if you're happy with it, then that's all that should matter.

[Ideal]

one minor detail im gonna add that tends to get over looked.

typically it is one person doing the choreography of the fights, but you need to take into account that no 2 people will fight the same way. even 2 people trained from birth by the same teacher in the same fighting style will vary a great deal

take Ryu and Ken from street fighter as a good example of this. trained for years together, but when you get down to it, their fighting styles are totally different

[Novastar]

Manda... filming rehearsals is a GREAT idea. I'm agreeing with that and can tack on experience with it too, since for BOP I & II... *EVERY* time I got the chance, I put my actors on film... so that I could review things, and find ways to improve things or repair problems.

In most cases--I was the only one able to view the video, and then later give everyone notes (this is common in a theatre show--generally without filmed rehearsals though)... but sometimes they were able to see themselves... and understand WHY I would ask for certain things to be certain ways. Otherwise, a lot of times, "notes" would be in one ear + out the other, lol!

Anyhow... filming is a good thing--especially if you already know your shot sequences (for film)... or obviously where the live audience will be.

[Count Malik]

I'm up to the challange... I know how to duel, I been training for awhile now, just for fun. I know how to build sabers and make web sites. But I have no knowledge of any special effects or movie making... But I can learn.

[Mandalorian]

Well, assuming that you want to save money, and want something that will help a lot in the long run, I'd say go with Blender. This is a great 3d application that has a wonderful compositor, not to mention it's 100% free. For lightsaber effects, you can try my lightsaber tutorial found in issue 17 of the blender art magazine found here. http://www.blenderart.org/issues/

I'll edit this post later since I have to leave now, but I'll post some more tips and learning sources, as well as some examples of things that this software is capable of in terms of VFX.

But have fun until then.

EDIT: K, here's a link to the wiki, which is full of tutorials and resources for blender. http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Main_Page

Here are all of the hotkeys. http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Blender_3D:_HotKeys/All These make Blender a very effective and fast piece of software to use.

The above listed link to blenderart magazine is very helpful. Those magazines show you the ins and outs of a lot of Blenders functionality.

Here's some examples of what blender can accomplish:

Blender.org gallery This has many of the professional renders that people have made with Blender.
One of my recent renders that includes some 3d interactive lighting.
A clash I made.
My MR Obi render.
TPM lightsabers done in Blender.
More TPM lightsabers.
Blender and Photoshop.
Lightsabers on video.

Here's my most recent lightsaber duel. Be sure to read the description:
Lights in the Night

Sorry for flooding this thread, I just wanted to show you the power of Blender. Many people say go with After Effects for lightsabers, but when you can do it for free and get the same quality, I don't see why you shouldn't try blender first.

Now it does take some getting used to and a while to learn effectively, but after working with it for years, I love Blender and use it for almost everything I do.

Have fun.