MR string minus resistors

[eastern57]

In the video, the modified MR blade looks about the same as the front half of the Lux V blade.

So, would you say it is actually brighter in person than in the video?

That's hard to say.... Just holding them out on the air and looking at them... of course the cyan "looks" brighter...

But with the darker blue of the luxV... I'd say they're about even.

[Jedi-Diah]

I removed about 10 of the resistors from the MR blade. The brightness is about the same as the Makoto blade. Hard to say exactly because I need to plug in one blade at a time but is seems pretty close.

I also tried putting the Makoto led strip (with the foam diffuser) in a nylon tube and it looks pretty good.

[erv]

whatever the brightness you get with modded MR strip, remember that those LEDs don't have the same efficiency than HB ones, be carefull not to break your LEDs or electronics. With no resistor (aka "direct drive") a LED will take all that it wants, if the supply voltage is high enough and the batteries provide the current. Sorry to repeat myself but when I did that on the MR strip, I used custom electronics to control the supply voltage, and you can do the same with a PSU.
So, to sum it up : MR strip with no resistor is great for testing but it's not a "final" solution

About comparing brightness, as you say, hard to tell, since
A) you don't have makoto's own blade right there
B) you don't have a lux meter.

hopefully, among the other stuff I have to finish next week, I'll be able to start some test about that !
Erv'

[Jedi-Diah]

Thanks for the warning on the MR blade/electronics. No, I don't have a PSU or current limiting electronics (yet). Hopefully in the future.

Actually, I do have one of Makoto's blades right here. It arrived about a week ago. It works great with an MR board (scrolling effect, bright). His came with a foam diffuser like the MR blade only slightly larger diameter (also removable with a 8 pin plug). It was just in a polycarb tube with no extra diffuser. I found a nylon blade tube works real well for diffusing and looks pretty even and bright. So far, it is much brighter than a Lux III which is brighter than the original MR.

This is the one he sent me: http://album.blog.yam.com/marikoswork&folder=5055849

Personally, I'm not interested in how bright things are on paper or with a light meter. If you can tell it looks brighter, then it is brighter. If you can't tell if it's brighter or it's really hard to tell, then I'd say it's about even and no reason to worry about it.

whatever the brightness you get with modded MR strip, remember that those LEDs don't have the same efficiency than HB ones, be carefull not to break your LEDs or electronics. With no resistor (aka "direct drive") a LED will take all that it wants, if the supply voltage is high enough and the batteries provide the current. Sorry to repeat myself but when I did that on the MR strip, I used custom electronics to control the supply voltage, and you can do the same with a PSU.
So, to sum it up : MR strip with no resistor is great for testing but it's not a "final" solution

About comparing brightness, as you say, hard to tell, since
A) you don't have makoto's own blade right there
B) you don't have a lux meter.

hopefully, among the other stuff I have to finish next week, I'll be able to start some test about that !
Erv'

[erv]

totally agreed on the last point. It's just that currently the comparison method is only base on digital cameras, most of them being relatively cheap ones, and pics aren't consistent. As you point out, it's a matter of "seing it in person", thing you can't do when.... you're not there
That's why I'll try to "standardize" the comparison method, just like eandori did when working on the hyperblade and the overdriven lux V.

now if makoto has sourced a foam diffuser, that's really great. Getting this custom made can be hard to find (especially in france) and expensive.

Question : when looking at the blade "in person", do you see wires running in the blade or the blade is using some sort of PCB ? I've sourced some good wires to test that when I'll build my own ladder + scrolling effect blade.

eastern : nice pics and thanks for taking the time to choose the camera exposure etc to get a more "realistic" picturing method of the blades.

[Jedi-Diah]

I haven't removed the foam diffused yet because its held on with hot glue at the base and I haven't wanted to cut that yet in order to see the leds. I know he is using an LED ladder. I certainly don't see any wires through the diffuser. It is pretty bright but not like "hurts your eyes" bright. However, after looking at a blue Lux III for a while in the dark and then turning on Makoto's blade, it does look really bright and almost makes you squint. It's like comparing a Lux III to a normal MR blade. It's about that kind of difference when comparing it to a Lux III. Soon I'll have a working royal blue Lux Rebel to compare it with.

Soon I will remove the foam and see what it looks like bare bones. Did I mention that the nylon tube works really well for a blade?

totally agreed on the last point. It's just that currently the comparison method is only base on digital cameras, most of them being relatively cheap ones, and pics aren't consistent. As you point out, it's a matter of "seing it in person", thing you can't do when.... you're not there
That's why I'll try to "standardize" the comparison method, just like eandori did when working on the hyperblade and the overdriven lux V.

now if makoto has sourced a foam diffuser, that's really great. Getting this custom made can be hard to find (especially in france) and expensive.

Question : when looking at the blade "in person", do you see wires running in the blade or the blade is using some sort of PCB ? I've sourced some good wires to test that when I'll build my own ladder + scrolling effect blade.

eastern : nice pics and thanks for taking the time to choose the camera exposure etc to get a more "realistic" picturing method of the blades.

[eastern57]

eastern : nice pics and thanks for taking the time to choose the camera exposure etc to get a more "realistic" picturing method of the blades.

Entirely my pleasure.

I'm going to swap-in some HB LEDs on an MR sting that I've been wanting to play with. I'll leave some of the stock one in - for comparison.

[erv]

got my comparison finally made, using the lux meter.
Setup is blade standing alway in the same position on the desk, lux meter measuring at 30 cm from the blade and 30 cm from the desk. All lights off.

I'm driving all the electronics / blades at 2A. First cause the PSU I have at home for the moment goes only at that amperage, second cause I'll never go to the 4A supposed to drive a hyperblade V2, unless using the proper batteries and not some retarded 900 mAh ones (said to be used at 1.5C max, guess where's the mistakes in the maths).
Constant current for everyone give a good idea of "efficiency".
The V2 hyperblade has been finally fixed after some intensive work to repair the PCB tracks and blade segments junctions, now every single LED is light up, including those which were not even soldered on the PCB (!). It's running out a V2 driver, flickering off, just static blade. I've replaced its initial stock diffuser + the inner nylon tube by an MR diffuser since it works pretty well too. The Hyperblade keeps however in any case it's outter nylon tube. I'm not testing with the V1 I have since it's full of dark spots at 2A.

** MR without resistors, driven by the custom CF (ledstrip version), 64 LEDs, 85 cm of blade lighting : 23 lux. Pretty even, a bit more than a standard MR since it's brighter and hence tends to remove the dark spots. A few of them anyway, due to binning and some LEDs getting tired of my tests.

** Hyperblade, 150 LEDs, 89.5 cm of blade, V2 driver, MR diffuser : 60 lux. Minored of 5% since the blade is longer => 56 lux. Dark spots, MR diffuser doesn't hide them very well on a hyper blade.

** Hyperblade, 150 LEDs, 89.5 cm of blade, V2 driver, stock diffuser : 86 lux. Minored of 5% since the blade is longer => 81 lux. Pretty even blade.

** MR PCB + 64 HB LEDs (70°), 85 cm of blade, MR diffuser & tube : I had to first get rid of the binning problem eastern mentionned (and that I expected to get), I had to replace about 15 leds to get something even on the tint and brightness. Very even if the LEDs match. 46 lux.

** MR PCB + 64 HB LEDs (70°), 85 cm of blade, custom diffuser (foam) and Hyper blade tubes. Very even blade. 52 lux.

So with 2.34 times the number of led and about twice the voltage, the hyperblade goes about 55% brighter. Not surprising with everything double but the diffuser is also important (just like for luxeon saber).

Now I have to build my ladder version, but I'm out of green LEDs, I have to order some. However, I have also to test another kind of led I've sourced too, and I'll compare on a little segment. Those might actually be the one I'll chose for my next blade experiments.

[ADDON]
I finished wiring my other HB LEDs, 50° ones. I only had 10 so I redid the same experiments but with a segment only. I lit up the same length of the hyperblade to compare.

** Custom ladder segment (10 leds, 11.5 cm long), MR stock blade and diffuser : 50 lux. Very even and bright
** Hyper blade segment (18 leds, 11.5 cm long), stock Hyperblade diffuser, inner & outer nylon core : 34 lux.

I'm now going to order more of those and build a full custom ladder blade and get the best of those leds, aka voltage versus current. That's really cool if we can get it to work with the standard MR diffuser.
[/ADDON]

Erv'

[Jedi-Diah]

Hi Erv,

Thanks for your dedication to this craft.

Very interesting results. That Hyperblade must be pretty bright. How does it look in person? Do you think it looks good but can do better?

I'm trying to confirm your "add on" post. Are you saying that 10 HB leds on your custom ladder were brighter than 18 leds on the Hyperblade (50 lux vs. 34 lux)? Does it look obviously brighter? What is your forcast/estimation for the brightness on your custom HB ladder blade when completed? Do you think it will out perform the Hyperblade as far as brightness "to the eye" goes? That's how it seems to me and its very exciting!

[erv]

yep, the lux is really nice for that, using the other (and brighter) LED I tried, 10 are brighter than 18, for the same current used.
Me having the 10 in parallel, the hyperblade working in pairs of 2 LEDs in serie, but with twice the voltage.

I don't care about absolute brightness, just like I don't care who's pi$$ing the furthest in the snow.
My goal is to get good brightness and even blade, brighter than MR and probably luxeon, but with reasonable autonomy and battery setup. Just like good electronic systems should be designed.