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Thread: Upgrade MR Saber with Makoto's led design

  1. #21

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    hi everyone,
    as you guess I've been contacted by a bunch of you guys about this
    After moving and working close to 4 months in the house, I now have a temp lab installed and I'm back to props electronics (yeah, I know, I have a batch of something to make, but I can't remember what it is... think it starts with C., something about a crystal... mmmm).

    sharing a few thoughts here. First is to send some congratulations to makotosai. Like other blades out there which were claimed to be huge research and innovation, we a nice alternative to what is possible. LED strips aren't new, but MR design targeted a mass market and therefore chose cheap leds, not special ones and more over, they had to deal with power supplies (what would a kid think of a saber lasting 10 minutes instead of 4 hours).
    This is not reducing the work of makotosai. HB leds, wide angle or not, are there for a while but I'm happy that the DIY spirit shows up here and provides people a simple way to upgrade a saber or create a blade.

    I've never liked the PCB thing. MR ones isn't that bad but suffers from what any PCB have : it's flexible, true but the copper layers are so thin that it would crackle at a moment or another. Remember also that's it's a cheap PCB and that many layer are running thru it (6 segments). Plus each LED has a resistor attached to it in the blade which gives 64 reasons for the blade to have problems. Most of the time, it's a resistor that goes away (poor soldering + bending blade), not the LED itself, despite it also happens.
    Remember that PCB tracks are like 35 µm thick, only deluxe PCBs are 70µm and even that remains freaking thin.
    Some would say "yes, but it works and it's duelable". Yep... but it's a question of design attitude and point of view. I personnally think it's useless to use 4A to drive the double number of LED which requires a PCB, and on the top of that use retarded batteries supposed to give only 1A on a normal and reasonnable use. Yep, it "sort of works". I'd say it lights up, but it's not designing electronics.

    About a year ago, I demonstrated the possibility to obtain an extremely bright blade with... the stock MR blade, removing the onboard resistors on the PCB (shunting them) and there's also a segment on which I've used wide angle. I was using then a custom version of my CF board.

    Here's the video link
    http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=oHLkznIpZKE

    Like many things I've worked on, I moved to something else once it's been demoed, I'm sorry about that, CF and blaster core home manufacturing just consumed my time.

    I'm very happy there's an interest about that again, so makotosai, once again, thanks for sharing that, great job and bright sabers.
    I think I still have enough leds I bought like 2 years ago to make a blade.

    I'm definitly going to make a ledstrip version of CF, an equivalent of V4. This will include brightness regulation / servoing instead of those other blades on which it's up to the user to manually select it. There's won't be a brightness resolution as in CF with the luxeon current settings, but I'd say at least 20 levels.
    I'll prone the use of 2 li-ion cells in the 18650 format, leading to a maximum current of the blade of 2400 mA for an at least 1 hour run, or more if the blade consumes less current.

    Now, in my opinion, the effort must also be made in finding an alternative way for the blade itself, cause even if retrofitting a MR blade is nice, I like the idea that we can source our own supplies instead of relying on the ebay aftermarket.
    Solutions :
    - Thin walled 1" polycarb blade + appropriate white LDPE diffuser
    - thick walled 1" + TCSS diffuser (reduced space in the diffuser, not easy to fit LEDs + foam, to be tried)

    foam diffuser replacement : when I tested 1 year ago, I got good results with wooden floors undercoating foam, extremely cheap.

    Hyperblade comparison vs HB makotosai style blades : If you've seen the videos and the posts of Eandori with the luxeon vs hyperblade comparisons, you might know that a couple of those are travelling the world and will end in my labs. The original owner wanted to get rid of them, however I funded him a bit this since it's been more than helpfull and informative.
    Just in case, for those who would like to say I'm getting those blades to analyse them for digital recast, be sure I won't copy a poor design with retarded battery setup. There's nothing "secret" with the HBlade. Twice the number of LEDs (or a little bit more), twice the voltage and... twice the weight. I'll never call that innovation. This does not remove anything to the fact someone built it and it's bright.

    Results are not the final point when designing something, the elegance, quality and reliability count at least 50%. And taking 4A out of a 900mAh battery is everything except elegant, electronically speaking (even if the manufacturer says you can take 1.5 or 2C).

    More soon,
    Erv'
    Last edited by erv; 09-30-2008 at 12:55 AM.
    Props Electronics
    http://www.plecterlabs.com

  2. #22
    Council Member Novastar's Avatar
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    Bravo, Erv... these are all excellent points, and certainly help to put things into great perspective!

    I, for one, am glad so much has grown from 2005/2006 regarding sabers.

    It's hard for me to believe what kind of crazy world I got myself "wrapped up into" by putting together the BOP projects, joining threads/forums, learning about LED sabers in general, semi-"partnering" with Erv, making the CF Sound Compendium CD, staged combat tutorials, etc. etc. It's just crazy.

    So... now to see more endeavors and innovations... IN ONLY <3 YEARS!!!!!!... it's pretty darn crazy...
    ~~ GREYTALE NOVASTAR (Writer, Director, Choreographer, Sound Designer, Actor, Saber Designer, Vocal Artist)
    ~~ Balance of Power, EP I: "Into The Lion's Den"
    ~~ Balance of Power, EP II: "Ashes of The Phoenix"
    ~~ The Crystal Focus Sound CD Compendiums... are HERE! ~~
    ~~ Nova & Caine's Staged Combat System... comin' SOON!
    ~~ Crystal Focus Wiring Guide

  3. #23

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    Erv,

    I'll never argue anything you've just said. I was never a fan of Hyper's blade system. I knew from the minute I saw it he was doing nothing more than shoving more electronics in a bad design and overtaxing his electronics.

    What's the saying..."You can't polish a turd". Yes, they are bright, but For what they are,t he cost of them makes no sense to me. I suppose that's why I've never bought one...and won't buy one.

    Is designing a LED ladder system for saber hobbyists to use to build their own blades something you hope to achieve by analyzing the stuff making its way to France?

    I'm too swamped with things right now, but building one of these blades has its place on my "to-do" list. It's a matter of finding a good source of high-quality LED and having disposable income to buy them in enough bulk to build a blade.

    Still, a fork of the CF hardware to accommodate these style of blades is going to be well received, I think. They are an impressive looking balde, and for those of us who don't duel heavily and run virtually no risk of breakign the solder conections of our LED strings, it will make for a very, very impressive and bright lightsaber!

  4. #24

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    Thanks Erv!

    Very exciting times for lightsaber technology. That would be great to have a choice on a CF of "HB led strips" or "single HP led" depending on what kind of blade you want to have.

    Could you explain what you meant by:

    "There's won't be a brightness resolution as in CF with the luxeon current settings, but I'd say at least 20 levels."

    I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "brightness resolution". Can it have different ignition/retraction speeds? Would blade flicker/pulse still be possible?

    Thanks again!

  5. #25

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    disposable incomes,
    héhé, gotcha jonitus, see what you mean.
    About your question, it's just that above, someone asked (or was it on fxsabers ?) if there's a brightness comparison between hyperblades and this ladder style blade : I'll do the job myself, I have the tooling to run the hyperblade at it's nominal amperage of 4A.

    diah : currently (if I can say so ) CF settings for the luxeon current is from 0 to 70 (70 <=> 1.5A) which gives a resolution of 21 mA per step, and for the led strip, this resolution will be less, leading to less "brightness steps". No big deal.
    Flicker and pulse will remains there, as demonstrated on the youtube video (as well as blaster, force, force clash fx etc).
    Erv'
    Props Electronics
    http://www.plecterlabs.com

  6. #26

    Default Led strip CF

    Got it. Thanks for the clarification.

    I assume there could be different speeds for the ignition/retraction scrolling effect? Would that depend on the ignition speed of the sound font?


    Quote Originally Posted by erv View Post
    diah : currently (if I can say so ) CF settings for the luxeon current is from 0 to 70 (70 <=> 1.5A) which gives a resolution of 21 mA per step, and for the led strip, this resolution will be less, leading to less "brightness steps". No big deal.
    Flicker and pulse will remains there, as demonstrated on the youtube video (as well as blaster, force, force clash fx etc).
    Erv'
    Last edited by Jedi-Diah; 09-30-2008 at 11:31 AM.

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by makototsai View Post
    hi~Darth Vane~

    Luke ANH ?
    just like that?
    yeah. that is the one i got and i would love to have one of your blades in it.
    ABANDON ALL HOPE, YE WHO ENTER HERE!
    Canto III of Dante's Inferno



    Beware the Power of The Pope!

  8. #28

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    ignition / retractation time is aligned on the sound duration on CF, and my quickly made led strip version of CF used the same but it's not so accurate, cause while the fade in progression is smooth, ignition with scrolling effect is coarse.
    However, I think I've found a solution to couple both effects for a better render. Of course, like CF, there will be the instant on and instant off settings that will allow to have a quick "MR like" ignition/retractation effect, not matter what the sound is.
    Props Electronics
    http://www.plecterlabs.com

  9. #29

    Default CF for LED strip

    Thanks for being interested in this Erv. Looking forward to seeing it in action.


    Quote Originally Posted by erv View Post
    ignition / retractation time is aligned on the sound duration on CF, and my quickly made led strip version of CF used the same but it's not so accurate, cause while the fade in progression is smooth, ignition with scrolling effect is coarse.
    However, I think I've found a solution to couple both effects for a better render. Of course, like CF, there will be the instant on and instant off settings that will allow to have a quick "MR like" ignition/retractation effect, not matter what the sound is.

  10. #30

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    you can have a good "apetizer" or "starter" with the youtube video link above, despite it's one year old !
    Props Electronics
    http://www.plecterlabs.com

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