Open Saber Sound Project

[Clockwork]

This all sounds good to me. So the initial aim is to make a simple sound board, comparable to the MR? some people have said Hasbro, what are peoples opinions on this? Do we want it to drive a lux? or is this on the "wishful thinking" list? (I must admit I did get a bit carried away earlier, thanks for keeping me grounded guys)

Since my last post I have been thinking about the soldering issue a lot and I must concur I did brush the issue aside to quickly. Looking at an MR board, I think that would be obtainable by somebody with average skills to solder (making sure they use IC sockets) a similar board and have it not much bigger. I also agree that printed boards would be easier for people to solder. My concern with pre-printed boards is that it would turn it into an business. Even if no profit is made, somebody is going to be responsible for ordering them and shipping them etc. I don't have a problem with it becoming a business, It just seemed to me to add a level of social complexity that could be avoided. This being said, I do see the merit in them, and don't see a problem if there is demand for it. If we did sell boards, perhaps it would be smartest to sell it as a complete kit that could be assembled. That might also solve the development board problem with the microcontroller, as a preprogrammed microcontroller would be packaged with it. Everything would still be available for those who didn't want to buy the kit. But if people wanted a board that all they needed to do was assemble it, this would also be available. I suppose these issues are best kept in mind, but only really become relevant when we have a working prototype.

**edit** I thought I would clarify on the soldering an MR type board statement. I think people would be able to do this because it uses no SM parts (at least from what I can see in the pictures, I haven't taken my MR apart yet). I agree newbie's should not be expected to solder SM parts. If people have difficultly soldering their Corbin Drivers, SM parts would be suicide.

[Jay-gon Jinn]

This sounds like an interesting idea, and I must agree with X-wing and Jonitus, that it should be kept simple. I have always thought the market needed an entry level board that was comparable to an MR, but set up to drive a single led, not an led string. Even if it is just a sound board, not an led driver, that may work as wll. It'd be nice to have something else to use with Corbin's driver board besides an MR or a Hasbro.

[Jonitus]

I think the MR soundboard is a good benchmark for the initial development of the project. All in all, it's not a bad board at all. Set it up to drive a Lux or other LED and it would be a decent board, and more than adequate for many people who want to build something for general dueling or to even include in sabers they build and sell to customers.

Now, I see too where this whole thing would morph into a business venture. So what? Nobody has specified which parts of the project have to be open sourced. I vote we leave the software and programming open-source and keep the hardware specs and so-forth "in-house". Will that stop somebody from reverse engineering the board to develop their own? Nope. Is it likely to happen? Nope. This project, any which way you slice it, will be a gigantic elephant we will have to eat one bite at a time.

I'm willing to lend my hand wherever I can. If it's testing, soldering components, marketing, whatever.

Somebody is going to have to lead the charge on this one. Someone will have to serve as team leader. We need a roadmap of what needs to be done, who is going to do it, and when we expect to have it done by.

Is this something we'd market here at TCSS? A TCSS soundboard? If so, fine. If not, then we'd better find a place to move this discussion to. I'm more than happy to host all interested parties and discussions of the project over at my forums, but it's up to you all (y'all).

[Clockwork]

Xwing do you know the exact name of the style of switch used in the MR? I can't find anything suitable under any suppliers "tilt and vibration sensors" sections.

[xwingband]

Xwing do you know the exact name of the style of switch used in the MR? I can't find anything suitable under any suppliers "tilt and vibration sensors" sections.

I don't have any (ran home to outrun TS Fay) handy. Someone with one out should be able to list the part numbers on them. They are made by Yusan though. They're pretty simple though. The shock sensor is a spring in a tube and the motion sensor is a ball bearing that just moves in a tube.

For what it's worth I think a driver should be included because if the sound is accomplished then a driver is pretty easy. The reason I posted the replicant board is because I see it as a very open-source already. I really think it should a base line.

Here's a summary of my thoughts:
-SD card if feasible. Like the replicant board this would be the heart of the programming. You'd load a config and the sounds there. This improves it slightly over an MR board and I feel it should be included simply to get past the problem of them all sounding the same. Ideally I'd like to just take my Novastar fonts and loading them. Lastly, I'd hate to resort to a preprogrammed set as it removes one more level of DIY and it quickly becomes a soldering exercise.
-LED driver. As stated above I find it much simpler next to sound. The vast majority of the work it'd do would be in the coding.
-Simple sensors like an MR. They are adequate enough and cheaper. They'd be far easier to program too.
-Through-holes soldering without a doubt. IC holders also. I'm fine with a leader on taking the PCB production too as it would be beneficial over simple breadboard. Out of courtesy I think if we reach that point Tim here should be the man.

[Master Dru-Er]

on a luke ROTJ board its:
sw-200D for the one with the parallel silver pole and
sw-18020P

[Count Malik]

Wow! sounds very cool!

[Bleyst]

on a luke ROTJ board its:
sw-200D for the one with the parallel silver pole and
sw-18020P

new Vader uses the same.

Here are some possible replacements:
http://www.signalquest.com/product_selection.htm

especially ones that are immune to shock look interesting (tilt sensors)

[Clockwork]

on a luke ROTJ board its:
sw-200D for the one with the parallel silver pole and
sw-18020P

I wasn't able to find much info on these numbers. Although I admit I looked and am doing this post quickly before class.

I totally agree we should have an LED driver on-board, separate boards just seems to make things messy.

I don't have a huge problem with going closed hardware, although I don't see any advantaged to it. I think it unlikely anyone will take our information an try and undercut us, but somebody might take a schematic, build it, and see some way to improve it. Also, like Jonitus said, figuring out the schematic will be dirt easy anyways as it sounds like we want to put together a DIY kit. Here are some open hardware projects:
http://www.symbio.jst.go.jp/PINO/index.html
http://www.openmoko.com/
Both of these have completely open source schematics (if you want to see the schematics behind a smartphone check this out) and software.

I agree with staying CF sound font compatible. Seems like the best idea to standardize the sound fonts.

Has anyone tried working with flashram before? I always find it a pain in the ass to change my sound fonts as it means disassembling (all be it a small part) of my saber. I would much rather just plug in a usb cable. Is this much more difficult that using an sd card?

I agree that once we come to the point were we have something more to offer Tim than words, we should approach him about taking over the sales section of the board kits. Lets face it, most newbs just put in an order to Tim with everything they need. Until this time I don't think it is all that disrespectful to continue development here, as it is done with the intention of eventually handed over the sales side to Tim. I see an advantage staying on here as long as it is acceptable, as it has more minds to tap.

If we are going to use digital inputs on the movement, I think we can probably scale back our chip features quite a bit. Does anyone have any experience using microcontrollers? I have never wanted to pay for development boards and found alternative methods to run my projects (most using a computer and a parallel port interface. If we can scale down our requirements to a PICAXE I think that would be a good place to start, although I don't have much experience programming BASIC, so I don't know if the language would be able to handle our requirements.

[Jonitus]

I think we're generating some good ideas for where we'd like to see this project eventually end up.

I don't want us to get so caught up in where we want to be that we forget where we are right now.

Yes, it would be beneficial to stay compatable with the CF sounds. This would make things easier for sound font developers.

I agree that a LED drive on board is a good thing. I originally suggested a separate module just so that we could cover the gamut of LED types that are out there. A decent driver could do that, provided we programmed for all the different settings.

USB would be a nice thing, but I believe Erv has always stayed away from it because of the programming hassles, not to mention - can you imagine the customer service headaches from users asking the pin-out of a mini-usb connection when they trim the cable to length and try to mount it in the hilt? Yuk!