Run saber off of wall socket...

[Obi-Dar Ke-Gnomie]

Funny you should ask this, darthdan. I've just been commissioned to do something similar for my friend's book store, and I wasn't 100% sure how to go about it.

He wants to have it on the wall most of the time, but with the option of taking it down and playing with it once in a while.

I was thinking of using a Corbin board to power it, and using a similar setup to what Chaos did, except that I would use a DPDT switch instead of the quick disconnects. The switch would decide which source the board would draw power from, either the socket or the batteries. With this setup, charging would not be an option, so I would just put alkalines in it.

I'll have to find an AC adapter that will put out the right volts and amps.

What do you folks think? Will this work? Can Corbin's board stand the continuous use?

[Novastar]

For anyone doing this kind of setup, that is:

* Saber powered by wall outlet (110v)
* Saber never needs to be used "on its own"

Personally... I would not use a "standard" LED, such as a Luxeon III or V or K2 or even a P4.

...I would use some INSANE LED that would be directly driven, but... maybe takes a throng of current, a high (so-to-speak) fwd voltage, and outputs a lot of heat.

Why? Well, first of all, your battery solution... isn't a battery at all... it comes from the wall outlet, so... that space can now be taken up by a whole lot of metal + large resistor for heat...

A fan might be nice... Especially with "endless" power to run it.

I would look for some kind of "10 watt" or "15 watt" LED with 1000+ lumens, and figure on one HECK of a resistor to drive the thing. You're unlikely to find too many "small" LED drivers to power something at (for example) 12v and 3A... but it doesn't really matter if you can just do it direct drive.

I would also use a fuse or two to prevent disasters during a power surge or whatever.

But anyhow--I think THAT would be REEEEEEAAAAAALLLY cool to see in a store. Just a simply ungodly lit saber... although it could never just "walk" out of the store, heheh.

[Obi-Dar Ke-Gnomie]

{font=Tim the Toolman}

MORE POWER!! ARRR, ARRR, ARRR!

{/font}

Hmmm... I may have to try that.

[Eandori]

My suggestion would work Xwing, it just requires the proper selection of power supply. You would need a power supply that provides an upper current limit, and an upper voltage limit. That's all. They do exist.

You are right though, a "smart" charger "AKA Peak detection charger" would not be the way because it will constantly turn itself off and go into trickle-charge mode. But that's not what I was suggesting. I was suggesting a power supply with voltage limit and current limit.

For example... let's say your 7.2v "rated" battery charges up to 8.4volts with no load. If your charger had a max current limit of 1 amp and max voltage limit of 8v then the charger will "stop" charging after it hits the upper voltage limit. Over time, current leakage in the battery will drop the voltage below 8v, which kicks that power supply back into current delivery and it will charge the battery up to 8v again.

When the saber is turned on, both the battery and the charger will be supplying current. The weaker the battery is, the more the battery voltage drops under load. That simply means the charger will supply more of the "on" current.

I believe there are Lithium Ion chargers out there that do exactly what I was stating. Voltage upper rail, and current upper rail. No peak detection, just a charging cut-off when a certain voltage limit is reached. Lithium Ion chargers do their job by constant-current...then Constant-voltage. Just like I was saying is needed here. Here's a webpage explaining how a Lithium-Ion charger works (CC then CV).
http://www.batteryuniversity.com/partone-12.htm

I believe that a 7.2v Li-Ion charger would work great for the AC/DC saber built with a high quality 7.2v NiMH battery pack with both charger and battery connected and powering the board at the same time.

Saber is off and plugged in: The charger "stops charging" before the saber battery is full.
Saber is on and plugged in: Current comes from both the battery and the charger. If the battery is slowly draining (saber uses slightly more power then charger outputs) then eventually the battery voltage will drop down to some mid-range value and the charger will supply 100% of the saber power (slightly dimmer, but still on all the time). If the saber uses less power then the charger outputs then it will stay at full brightness all the time.
Saber is on/off and unplugged: Works like normal.

Make sense?

[darthdan]

Yeah, if you were wanting to just run it off the wall, once the optics get in, maybe a 3 up green Endor Star would be doable. It'd certainly be bright. But what would anyone suggest as far as making a bigger heatsink?

[Eandori]

There may never be "good" optics that make the current Endor Star's a better choice then 1 high powered luxeon in the middle. The efficiency of all optics for tri-lux rebels is so bad that the rebels would need to be FAR brighter then standard LED's before the resulting blade would be brighter.

put simply...

160 lumen Seoul P4 Green with 85% optics gets 136 lumens up the blade.
3x 100 lumen green Rebels with 35% optics gets 105 lumens up the blade.

You simply can't make optics for 3-luxeon rebel stars that good because each LED is missing nearly half the parabola it requires to be centered around it's light source. I think it's currently an un-solvable problem because when other LED's get high enough powered... just one ONE of those with a proper optic for better effect.

[Novastar]

Eandori is soooo right, heheh! I was actually just talking to Grayven about this on the phone. My guess is that with the Rebels spread so "far" apart (lol at "far" being a few mm)... no great chance of any "good" optics... good being 5 degree or 10 degree.

It's a hard fact to accept, but... hmm... the Rebels may need to get replaced by the "Imperials", hahahahah

Oh, back to the topic--I like Eandori's idea a lot, that's perfect... only thing is... doesn't really take full advantage of the fact that the person making the "110v wall socket saber" basically has endless current to make some SUPER UBER saber, heheh

But Eandori's is the best solution if you want to be able to hang the saber up on the wall... plug 'er in... then take 'er down later, walk out and go bash people in the park or whatever.

Me... me, I'd say make it a "permanent wall saber" that would just impress and attract attention... then people who like it would obviously understand (I hope??), no your battery-powered saber will not be THAT bright, sir... It'd be like expecting a flashlight to outshine a giant theatre light... are you NUTS?!

[Obi-Dar Ke-Gnomie]

I really like that idea. I think I may have to do some research to head in that direction. If my friend wants a saber he can wave around, he can just pay me to build another one.

My only concern with using an uber bright LED is heat. Perhaps if it is permanently mounted to the wall, I could drill some vent holes in the side that doesn't show.

So far, the one question I had hasn't been answered. Will Corbin's board stand up to continuous duty? If not, what do you recommend? Am I better off with a puck? ...or...?

[Eandori]

I really like that idea. I think I may have to do some research to head in that direction. If my friend wants a saber he can wave around, he can just pay me to build another one.

My only concern with using an uber bright LED is heat. Perhaps if it is permanently mounted to the wall, I could drill some vent holes in the side that doesn't show.

So far, the one question I had hasn't been answered. Will Corbin's board stand up to continuous duty? If not, what do you recommend? Am I better off with a puck? ...or...?

This is different then what I was talking about. I was reccomending a setup for a saber that runs fine connected to it's charger or not connected.

If you want to PERMENANTLY fix a saber to the wall, there is more to consider. I know that our luxeon saber setups work fine even when we run them at max current for 1-3 hours... but if they never turn off? Well, you might want to get a bit better heat sinking. Or perhaps turn down the LED current.

Also, if you were going to never take it off the wall, there's no need for a battery. Just hook up an AC to DC converter that puts out enough voltage/current for whatever driver board you are using directly with no battery.

You would also want to turn down the speaker, we tend to overdrive our speakers which is fine for short runtime. But I'm sure it does wear the speakers out faster. Plus a really loud hum 24/7 would get really annoying.

[Novastar]

I hear ya Edwin, it's a different idea--I was just tossing around some thoughts... you know, maybe to take advantage of the whole wall socket thing.

But yeah, agreed there... running 24/7 would be tough on the LED, so you'd want to wire up a fan with a VERY large finned heatsink, and do your homework on the super high powered LED used.

Regarding sound boards, Eandori, I think they'd be out of the question due to (possibly) using extreme voltage and current. Well, relative to the projects.

I mean, I'm thinking "15w" style LEDs, where the dies are freakin' huge... ones that would not fit our traditional sabers. Also, the blade would probably be better suited as 1.5" thickness, and you could use the "Gelukhan/Ultra" style film. I doubt a mirror tip would be needed at all, and even if it were, it's easy to do.

But Obi-Dar... Edwin taught me that: the bigger the slug of metal (and the more heat-conductive that metal... like copper or aluminum), the safer you are. Doesn't have to be fancy, just a LOT of metal for the LED to sit on.