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Thread: On the way to Crystal Focus V4

  1. #1

    Lightbulb On the way to Crystal Focus V4

    The main topic about CF remain the one about "foie gras", but I'm opening this one to gather the customer wishes about this new upcoming version, and to exchange / discuss certain aspects and features I'd like to have in this V4.

    As a reminder, here are the features we already have in the toast
    RoadMap v3.1
    - 6 sound banks (8 swings, 8 clash etc, like v1). Aux buttons pressed at startup => browsing the sound fonts, with an off-voice from the saber saying "bank one", "bank two" or... just put a descriptive sound you like ! could be a "preview" sound, the ignition sound, or something more descriptive like "sith config", "jedi config" "mixed config" etc. [done]
    - one config file per sound bank, allows to have a damaged saber in one bank, a sith saber in the second one etc. [done]
    - Boot sound. Just like your digital camera does. Can be a little sound "logo", or a "yes my master" if you like. [done]
    - force push [done]
    - pitch alteration of the swing sounds depending on the swing hardness. Maybe applied to clash, but it's meaningless IMO. [done]
    - reverse the pitch shifting effect controlled by the orientation of the saber: lower with saber down, higher with saber up. Impossible to change the polarity of the effect, increasing too much the sample playback speed reduces too much the CPU power. Effect is hence "just" lowering the speed, saber up brings it back to normal speed (as setup on the sd card) [done]
    - orientation of the saber controls pitch shifting but only for the hum and blade lockup effect[done]
    - 4 LED sequence to illuminate the hilt when the saber is on. Sequence to be defined in an additionnal configuration file (LED.txt) on the SD card, with patterns and delays between transition of patterns [done]
    - real low battery blinking indicator, voltage based [done]
    - background music for the vocal menu [done]
    - option to allow or not the play of the selected sound bank in the vocal menu Saves time when demontrating the banks or when heavily changing them. [done]
    - optimized current measurement [done]
    - blaster/force priority over swings : allows long blaster or force sounds not to be stopped by a swing to fake additionnal movements. Clashes however can break the sequence => variable duration for clashes [done]
    - auxiliary circuit to drive an additionnal white flash (luxeon, simple LED) during blaster and clash. Specific duration of the flash can be setup on the card [done]
    - instant on and off for the blade (already in 2.63) [done]
    - blade lights up during iSaber, allows practice of a choreography with background music [done]
    - additionnal flicker mode for iSaber : light is modulated with beat of the music [done]
    - pulsing mode available in addition of the blade energy flickering mode (the so-called "movie flicker"). Not really screen accurate, but now that there are some alternate soundfonts like the phoenix blade of fire, this pulsing mode makes sense too. [done]
    - shorten parameters name in the SD config file. Due to the growing number of parameters, I had to keep the param name short to stay under 512 bytes for the file size [done]

    RoadMap for V4
    - use a microSD card instead of the normal size SD card. I hacked a CF 3.0 to add a microSD holder. It works like a charm [done]
    - Reduce the form factor of the board (to make it easier to install in a MHS, for instance, and because sometimes, size DOES matter) - the board is now 26.67 mm wide, I removed almost 1.6 mm [done]
    - power on protection (same idea than the A-POP but for ignition) [done]
    - test the board with 2 rebel in parallel @750 mA each + white clash flash [done]
    - RGB mode to drive a endor / prolight or multiple LEDs, but ONE at a time, selection being made by changing of sound font with the vocal menu [done]
    - Second force sound for the aux button combined with a clash. Allows the possibility to make a HUGE / SPECIAL clash sound (like you're REALLY angry before clashing the blade... a special sith feature ). Called force2.raw in the sound font. Additionnal parameter to enable/disable the feature. [done]
    - additionnal + new random mode called RandomX. It does not repeat twice the same sound except in extremely rare case. It actually makes sure that you play all the 8 clash / swing sounds in sequence, but never twice the same sound. It does not replace the previous random mode, that is still working, it's an additionnal feature (random=3 in the config.txt file) [done]

    as for the micro SD thing... Here are my thoughts about that, to explain why I'd like to move to this.
    - I'm not able to get the good deal I had on the 32 MB SD cards you got with your CF.
    - for basically the same price, you can get a 1GB microSD card
    - the card works with the USB reader you already have since it's provided with an adapter, a sort of dummy SD card with a slot to insert the micro SD
    - it's smaller and hopefully I can reduce the size of the board
    - 1 GB allows to store more music for iSaber
    - I finally found the microSD holder I was looking for. It's a bit more expensive but it's a pushin-pushout. The card is really locked and the contact with the card is better, it's should be even more reliable during hard shocks / blade impacts (I salvage a chair with an old blade testing a saber for a customer and after 5 minutes of impacts, the SD finally move a bit).
    - micro SD are more expensive, but not so much, and they are now easy to find, at least easier than old and (theoritically) inexpensive small capacity normal SD cards.

    feel free to ask "reasonnable" features so that I put them in the list. Please DON'T ask to drive 3 LEDs at the same time, that's all.
    Last edited by erv; 03-27-2008 at 02:48 AM.
    Props Electronics
    http://www.plecterlabs.com

  2. #2
    Council Member Novastar's Avatar
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    As everyone can probably imagine, this is gonna kick some serious arse...

    Erv and I have just spoken, and he wanted me to convey a little bit more information for v4 that has been brewing "in the fires of Mordor" (or shall I say Plecterlabs) for some time:

    SOFTWARE!

    Yes that's right, a GUI interface that will simply help the user to get the data into the config.txt files, and select sound fonts... is in the works. No target date as of yet, but... it's in the works. Some thoughts on this:

    * SOUND & VOCALS! = With any luck, the GUI will be made to act as your own personal droid--commenting here and there, acknowledging your choices and selections, sounds whizzing and rumbling. Berating you when need be. Totally kidding. It is assumed Novastar will come up with SOMEthing for this. Although he'll probably have to barf up a lung in order to fulfill on THAT...

    * LED TYPE & PRE-CURRENT = If possible, we're hoping to add a safety feature that will WARN you if you're about to accidentally upload a LEDcurrent setting that is inappropriate for your LED! Granted, the warnings can be ignored... and they are based on the Luxeon or high-powered LED that YOU select in the software. Additionally, it allows for "over-driving" so you may set LEDcurrent above any "max continuous current" settings as suggested by manufacturers. Mais, s'il te plait: Mise En Garde!

    * PRE-GLOW = Preview "what the blade will glow" like given (hopefully) real-time slidebars and values that you set... which is effectively modifying the flickerX settings and such. A graphic will appear, and glow/flicker/pulse in a way that is similar to what you will see on your physical saber. Nice!

    * PRE-COLOR = You'll be able to select the color for the sound font/config. profile if you're going with some kind of RGB. Even if you aren't, you can have fun and preview a color.

    * PRE-AUDIO = Well, it's true that you can do this with Erv's mixer or simply play the audio files in your favorite music player... but why not hear the sounds prior to loading them into your saber?

    * AUDIO PACKAGES = They'll be a part of the software, defaulting to certain sets... but you can then choose some OTHER package (also included!)... or specify your own! Whether modified, brand new, silly, or otherwise... For safety, defaults can never be destroyed, and so--you will never have worry of a "non-working" font (unless it is your own and has bugs!)

    * AUDIO "MIND-TRICK" OPTIMIZER = This might not happen, but... *MY* hopes are to allow users to essentially run a newer or self-made sound font through an optimizer, so that the following issues can be resolved in "one swift stroke" as Tarkin might say:
    --- Remove pops & clicks (zero crossing point tweak)
    --- Optimize filesize (CF buffering adjustment tweak)
    --- Normalize sounds (check volume levels, look for distortion & fix if possible)
    --- Import MANY sound formats! (.mp3, .wav, .au, etc. -- converted to .raw)

    * Bullets, Value boxes, Slider bars, On/Offs, etc. = As you can imagine, you will be able to more easily set parameters such as blaster, current, auxreboot, switch, instanton/off, offprotect, onprotect, etc. etc. etc. Obviously appropriate controls will be for such parameters (i.e. a range of values from 0-255 might be a slide bar or input value... whereas "offprotect" is either on or it ain't... )

    * DROID FILE CHECK = If you are missing a file, hopefully you'll be made aware of it prior to doing your upload. If a file is problematic in some way (type mismatch?) you will also be made aware.

    * DROID FILE COPY TOOL = Instead of having to manually format your SD card... well, when your fonts and configurations are ready... press the droid button, and wait a few minutes. That's it, your CF is ready for action!

    Keep in mind: some, none or all of these may or may not be implemented. But... the idea is simply to keep everyone aware... CF GUI *IS* coming... only a matter of time now...

    ~~ GREYTALE NOVASTAR (Writer, Director, Choreographer, Sound Designer, Actor, Saber Designer, Vocal Artist)
    ~~ Balance of Power, EP I: "Into The Lion's Den"
    ~~ Balance of Power, EP II: "Ashes of The Phoenix"
    ~~ The Crystal Focus Sound CD Compendiums... are HERE! ~~
    ~~ Nova & Caine's Staged Combat System... comin' SOON!
    ~~ Crystal Focus Wiring Guide

  3. #3

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    One thing I haven't understood yet is this.

    With the 8 clash 8 swing sounds thing. Does that mean that in one sound bank you can have up to 8 different clash and swing sounds?

    If I understood that wrong then maybe that's something that can be implemented.

    Maybe an easier way to get to the menu, I sometimes have problems getting into the menu. I find the easiest way is to hold the aux button with a kill key in the recharge port, then pull the kill key out and release the aux button.

    Maybe implement something like what Eandori did with the clash flash using a separate led to make the clash flash.

    With the larger SD card we could have many many banks to choose from. so maybe have like a back up feature when going through the sound fonts so you dont have to go thru the whole list again to get to something towards the end. Like press the aux button twice quickly to go back a bank, sorta like how isaber works.

    Inbank volume control maybe? IIRC theres a volume "knob" on the board anyway so maybe have it done in the sound bank that way one wouldn't have to take the board out of the hilt to change the volume of the saber or potentially damage something on the board trying to get the small screwdriver in there.

    That and if will lesson the space it would take up on the board.

    If its already like this then ignore this idea.

    Oh as for teh size of the board itself, will it be possible to stack the board on top of say a AA battery pack like the one tim sells then still have it fit in the normal mhs sections?

    I cant really think of anything else. Iam sure novas got alot of ideas.

    LOL ok I was a bit slow.
    Last edited by Hasid Lafre; 03-12-2008 at 02:13 AM. Reason: spell check its 4am iam tired bite me
    Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex. - Albert Einstein

    Reaganomics not Obamanomics


  4. #4
    Council Member Novastar's Avatar
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    8 clashes and 8 swings... this is correct, Hasid. For each sound font you can have swing1,swing2,swing3,swing4....swing8... and clash1,2,3,....,8.

    I agree that the booting and menu could be improved... I've mentioned this before to Erv, but--he has said it's hard to get past his engineering background to always "confirm" choices. We'll see what can be done... it's true, sometimes the reboot is tough, I know.

    Clash flash... I *THINK* this might already be there... but I have to check with Erv... however the case, it is not a "simple lead" right now I believe...

    Volume... that is a good idea software-wise... I think you can control the beep volume--but not the sound volume via software. Good one!

    6 sound fonts, so "back up" button press... that one, I think will be up to Erv... I understand your point, I have "skipped over" the font I wanted once or twice, but... it takes maybe 4 seconds for me to get to re-cycle the menu... granted, if one day there are TEN fonts in the saber at a time... it might be different! But for now, I think it stays as 6, maximum.

    Lessen space w/ SD... I think that is just what the MicroSD will do, Hasid, so... wish granted! Additionally it seems the SD card will be held in much tighter, and avoid any "looseness".

    Good ideas, Hasid! There is nothing wrong with posting an idea even if seems "so-so". Only ones NOT to post are crazy ones like Erv was alluding to: "can it drive 9 lux at once" or "how about 60 sound fonts" or "how about add cell phone option".

    I have been TRYING to get Erv to implement the "Butter My Toast NOW" option... but he just doesn't LISTEN! heheheheh
    ~~ GREYTALE NOVASTAR (Writer, Director, Choreographer, Sound Designer, Actor, Saber Designer, Vocal Artist)
    ~~ Balance of Power, EP I: "Into The Lion's Den"
    ~~ Balance of Power, EP II: "Ashes of The Phoenix"
    ~~ The Crystal Focus Sound CD Compendiums... are HERE! ~~
    ~~ Nova & Caine's Staged Combat System... comin' SOON!
    ~~ Crystal Focus Wiring Guide

  5. #5

    Arrow

    Quote Originally Posted by Hasid Lafre View Post
    With the 8 clash 8 swing sounds thing. Does that mean that in one sound bank you can have up to 8 different clash and swing sounds?
    do you have a CF already ? (no offense, just asking, I don't remember). Yes, just as it's described on the item page for a long time, CF has, from the V1 and even before 8 sounds of clash and 8 sounds of swings per sound bank. It's quite easy to notice on the numerous videos that you don't have always the same swing / clash sounds.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hasid Lafre View Post
    Maybe an easier way to get to the menu, I sometimes have problems getting into the menu. I find the easiest way is to hold the aux button with a kill key in the recharge port, then pull the kill key out and release the aux button.
    when the blade is off, press the aux button for 3 sec, beep, release, confirm, beep, and keep the button pressed, you jump directly in the menu. It's shorter on V3, maybe you have a 2.61 but... I don't see how "easier" it could be. I never use the kill plug to do that, and believe me, you don't want another special button for that. I just hate the idea of a TV-remote control-Saber.
    I don't see what's wrong with the menu access...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hasid Lafre View Post
    Maybe implement something like what Eandori did with the clash flash using a separate led to make the clash flash.
    it's already there on V3 since november... Eandori got a proto of the firmware on a old 2.5, then I implemented this on V3. You have the aux clash output, mean to drive directly a little 5 mm LED or a bigger one (luxeon) using a power xtender. I did not include the possibility to directly drive the luxeon onboard because it increases the size of the board and it concerns 1% of the user's (most people don't include blinking LEDs / motor / aux flash / PLI in their saber)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hasid Lafre View Post
    With the larger SD card we could have many many banks to choose from. so maybe have like a back up feature when going through the sound fonts so you dont have to go thru the whole list again to get to something towards the end. Like press the aux button twice quickly to go back a bank, sorta like how isaber works.
    you point out an important thing : user interface. I'm against a large number of soundfont cause browsing becomes boring. It's been really improved on V3, and now you can even choose if you wanna hear the confirmation of the SF you chose, so... okay, maybe 8 SF instead of 6 but... are you really using that, or is just to show up with your friend to demonstrate all the sounds you have... Please (all of us, not pointing hasid) think about general usage not the "hey look 'ma check out all the 49.6 sound fonts I have in my saber".

    Quote Originally Posted by Hasid Lafre View Post
    Inbank volume control maybe? IIRC theres a volume "knob" on the board anyway so maybe have it done in the sound bank that way one wouldn't have to take the board out of the hilt to change the volume of the saber or potentially damage something on the board trying to get the small screwdriver in there.
    good idea. Actually I tried, but the digital volume setting takes too much CPU. Basically you don't really want to get a volume setup, you get it at the max level the batteries / speaker allow without saturation. Now, the possible use is : I want to pratice saber at night with a little sound, but shy, and I don't want to trim the volume potentiometer. Completely right ! then take any sound font, edit all the files turning the volume 70% down and install it again on the SD. You obtain a low volume pratice Sound font. Or take ALL the SF you like, lower the volume on all of them (using the batch processor of sound forge, it's done in about 15 seconds) and use a spare SD card you install in the saber by removing the pommel. You then have the normal SD and the whisper saber one.

    as a general remark, folks, please ensure you've read the user's manual of V3 and the roadmap above, cause I don't want to spend my time saying over and over "this is already there, this was made 2 years ago". The roadmap is the summary of the features.
    thanks
    Erv'
    Props Electronics
    http://www.plecterlabs.com

  6. #6

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    Would it be possible to make the blade lock up work without having to press the aux button?

  7. #7

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    Well I havent been on the times latly and I get lost in a post then my brain trails off somewhere else then I foget what I was doing.

    I got a CF and I havent been abel to really mess with it as I havent even got it neat a hilt yet. Ive messed with my brothers V3 that hes got but havent really messed with it ya know. Just trying to get an idea for the feel of it with a saber so I can plan where I need to put things like switches.

    Again Iam just not sure of somethings. How they sound in my head when typing them
    out.

    About the switch menu thing I wasent really meaning add another switch but I just find it diffacult sometimes and I it was with my brothers v3 saber.

    I press teh button, it beeps, I press it again(hold or otherwise) I get a sound that is different depending on the bank it was on, but its like when pulling the kill key out it makes a boot sound of sorts I beleave. But no menu. sometimes it works grate but sometimes it dosent, I just say hell with it and get the kill key and do it that way(insert kill key/hold aux/remove kill key/release aux button).

    I in my posession have a 2.63(but the board says 2.61) so Iam not sure what the smaller detals are between the versions like that.

    I read the road map and that but somehow my questions came out different in my head.

    Persionally I would rather have one SD card with many sond fonts than many sd cards with small number of sound fonts, I have the tendancy to misplace things when I just had them and never find them till like a month or 2 later or never again.

    I dont know just some ideas for us kluts's out there(I know iam not the only one).

    But for the Eandori thing I was thinking make it easyer. like sence you got the spots ont eh board to wire these things in anyway maybe a seperate thing in the sd card where you can make it be an accent led or a clash flash led.
    Last edited by Hasid Lafre; 03-12-2008 at 03:11 AM.
    Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex. - Albert Einstein

    Reaganomics not Obamanomics


  8. #8

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    The one idea I've been musing over for sometime would be something along the lines of swing sensitivity. I know the swing plays in accordance to the force used, but what if you could take that a spet further, You get one of 3 of the more softer, shorter swings if you swing with minimal effort. Put more effort into it, and then get one of 2 "medium" swings, and lastly, with the last 3 swings, make those the double swings, spins and such that would only be activated while rigorously sping/swing the thing.

    Of course the pitch or speed of whatever swing you manage to activate would still be determined by the force oput into it, but only while in the parameters of the sensitivity you activated(light, med, and full on swings).

    Any of this make sense? Hope so.

    Don't even know if it's possible, but thought i'd throw that out there in case.

    Maybe the same could be done for clashes too, I was thinking

  9. #9
    Council Member Novastar's Avatar
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    Hasid -- you have to press and hold... wait for the beep, then release, press and HOLD AGAIN... then, it should reboot into the menu. At this point, you can release it--maybe a bit earlier too as it starts the menu sound.

    Sound fonts... well, at the present way CF functions, only 6 fonts are possible. Before, it was 4 (in v2)... but Erv was able to eek out 2 more! Personally, I think 6 is *PLENTY* more than people will use in a single saber. I hardly go through them all myself! And I CREATED like 10 of the fonts, lol.

    Jesscook -- This is a good idea, but is rife with expense, problems, and practicality issues. Some threads have been devoted to this in the past, and Erv has actually made a short video example of it in early testing stages: http://youtube.com/watch?v=tsd_wRuIYrE

    So... not to say it's impossible... just that some kind of pressure-sensitive or "distance-sensing" setup for the blade causes ENORMOUS issues... some of which don't produce the effect you might be suspecting it would dole out. But hey, an effect that is not so hard to get by placing your button in a good place where you just "squeeze" and you're good.

    An interesting solution I've wanted to try is some kind of button (or buttons) that can be actuated all around the diameter of the saber... so when you squeeze from ANY position or "attitude" of the saber... the button is always there.

    This too could present problems... lockups happening TOO often, lol.
    ~~ GREYTALE NOVASTAR (Writer, Director, Choreographer, Sound Designer, Actor, Saber Designer, Vocal Artist)
    ~~ Balance of Power, EP I: "Into The Lion's Den"
    ~~ Balance of Power, EP II: "Ashes of The Phoenix"
    ~~ The Crystal Focus Sound CD Compendiums... are HERE! ~~
    ~~ Nova & Caine's Staged Combat System... comin' SOON!
    ~~ Crystal Focus Wiring Guide

  10. #10
    Council Member Novastar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by killphil View Post
    The one idea I've been musing over for sometime would be something along the lines of swing sensitivity. I know the swing plays in accordance to the force used, but what if you could take that a spet further, You get one of 3 of the more softer, shorter swings if you swing with minimal effort. Put more effort into it, and then get one of 2 "medium" swings, and lastly, with the last 3 swings, make those the double swings, spins and such that would only be activated while rigorously sping/swing the thing.
    It does make sense! I'm not sure how noticeably different that would be versus setting it to random, but... who knows, maybe Erv can play with this.

    Me, I wouldn't mind a "bubbled" random sort where no sound is ever played twice in a row.
    ~~ GREYTALE NOVASTAR (Writer, Director, Choreographer, Sound Designer, Actor, Saber Designer, Vocal Artist)
    ~~ Balance of Power, EP I: "Into The Lion's Den"
    ~~ Balance of Power, EP II: "Ashes of The Phoenix"
    ~~ The Crystal Focus Sound CD Compendiums... are HERE! ~~
    ~~ Nova & Caine's Staged Combat System... comin' SOON!
    ~~ Crystal Focus Wiring Guide

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