Troubleshooting Ultrasound v 1.0

[xwingband]

It should have protection in the next run then... I haven't had much issue with that accept on low end electronics. Anything deemed for the public and "custom" should be idiot proofed as best possible.

Either that or DIY people stay clear of symmetric plugs. Leaving them in the hilt isn't the issue... it's the board having a passive draw and even then it would be a PCB reset or a charge. Ultra said it's no more than an MR (which has none), but obviously that not true.

[Darth Morbius]

First and foremost, I would like to state for the record that I am not holding Alex or the board itself personally responsible for the problems that seem to be cropping up with the Ultrasound.

But in the topic for Ultrasound updates at FX-Sabers, it was stated that the boards had to go back to the manufacturer because of a defect. Which had been the reason for the last delay on release.

It's my opinion that the company that manufatured the boards did a quick fix without extensive testing like they SAID they would. Sure they may have tested each one for a few minutes before shipping them to Alex, but who's to say that it's not something that can happen later.

My meaning here is that there may be a flaw somewhere in the board that the manufacturer was not aware of, and from what was posted at FX sabers about it during the manufacture, it sounds an awful lot like what was happening before.

Jonitus, Hootini is going to send me his Overlord as you had probably read over at FX. I am going to check the board to see if it is indeed the same issue, then report to Alex on my findings. However, I have a feeling that he may have inadvertently tripped out the protection IC, or it may be a case of a bad set of Ultrafires, which I have not ruled out.

If the board is indeed borked, I will see if I can get a replacement. If I can't get my hands on one, I'll just install the one from my overlord since it's pre wired, and order another V2 Ultrasound for mine when the time comes.

I can keep you posted on this matter, and will contact hootini about it as well to see what he wants to do in the case the board is a flusher.

On a side note, with the Menu issue, it may be the switch or wiring to the board that is causing that. Before I got the new switch for the Overlord I didn't have any trouble getting into the menus. Since the new switch was installed on the saber, it became a little tougher to get into the menu until I removed the board and re-soldered the switch leads at the board. That seemed to clear up the issue.

[Meridian]

First and foremost, I would like to state for the record that I am not holding Alex or the board itself personally responsible for the problems that seem to be cropping up with the Ultrasound.

But in the topic for Ultrasound updates at FX-Sabers, it was stated that the boards had to go back to the manufacturer because of a defect. Which had been the reason for the last delay on release.

It's my opinion that the company that manufatured the boards did a quick fix without extensive testing like they SAID they would. Sure they may have tested each one for a few minutes before shipping them to Alex, but who's to say that it's not something that can happen later.

My meaning here is that there may be a flaw somewhere in the board that the manufacturer was not aware of, and from what was posted at FX sabers about it during the manufacture, it sounds an awful lot like what was happening before.

Jonitus, Hootini is going to send me his Overlord as you had probably read over at FX. I am going to check the board to see if it is indeed the same issue, then report to Alex on my findings. However, I have a feeling that he may have inadvertently tripped out the protection IC, or it may be a case of a bad set of Ultrafires, which I have not ruled out.

If the board is indeed borked, I will see if I can get a replacement. If I can't get my hands on one, I'll just install the one from my overlord since it's pre wired, and order another V2 Ultrasound for mine when the time comes.

I can keep you posted on this matter, and will contact hootini about it as well to see what he wants to do in the case the board is a flusher.

On a side note, with the Menu issue, it may be the switch or wiring to the board that is causing that. Before I got the new switch for the Overlord I didn't have any trouble getting into the menus. Since the new switch was installed on the saber, it became a little tougher to get into the menu until I removed the board and re-soldered the switch leads at the board. That seemed to clear up the issue.

It wasn't a defect in the board but a re-programing of the sounds to remove the additional "soft hit" sound that was playing during the motion swings, that was it...

No defects or anything in the components, just software on that delay.

You and Nova are right in the overall picture that the chip MFG could have and more appropriately "should have" done a lot more to help make the development of this go a lot smoother.

I have a feeling any short coming will be getting addressed and fixed

[Novastar]

If you would like some examples of on reverse voltage protected items go to any Hobby shop and buy an Electronic Speed control and plug in the battery backward and turn it on and you'll have a fired ESC. These Like Saber Drivers are Custom Components and are not household items required to have such.

I hate to point this out, but... wiring something backwards is not the same comparison as wiring something CORRECTLY... only to have the board reverse polarity later on when batteries get low.

I personally haven't seen this occur--but it seems that is what has been suggested with the early US boards.

If all it is... is simply a matter of don't screw up + and - ... well then we're not talking about the same issue. Because THAT would be an error on the user's part, and not very excusable since Ultra provided a very clear wiring graphic labeling the parts (available to see here at TCSS).

Anyhow... I'm sure things will improve over time. Only a question of time & logistics. I still feel bad for Ultra, and also pray that he did NOT sign away the rights to the company with the paperwork early on. I've seen that happen too many times with inventors...

...people even tried to do the same with ME when I was seriously considering the Ns5 project. Screw that. I ain't signing anything away.

[Meridian]

Yeah that's what I was getting at for the various voltage issues

I know my explanations have a tendency to be a little long winded

I don't think the concept rights are under the board maker and Ultra
held on to that end of it in order to shop it around in the future if necessary

[erv]

this is late answer to what has been said above, just adding my 2 cents about electronic designs and compromises. This has nothing to see with board dead / not dead, reliable or not, bad or good PCB maker. Just a general remark.

I perfectly understand that there is no protection diode on the ultra board. It's not a question of being cheap, greedy or a bad designer.
Consider this :
- a diode waste .7 v. It's huge, especially when you power a luxeon with a 4.8V rechargeable. It drives you to 4.1 v, just close to the limit of the forward voltage of some luxeon
- MR boards don't have a diode, except on the ones that use 6 AA, to pair 3 // 3.
- if you are not able to put + on red and - on black, that's an issue that goes further than the ultraboard design. If you are daltonian (I'm not making fun of anyone), get some help for the wiring.
- my board does not have the protection neither. People want good performances and wide power supply possibilities with constant brightness. Then you give out on protection. My board isn't fool proof.
- I've personnally burnt various kinds of hardware. It does not happen so much now, cause I've learnt from my mistakes. It's great if you can do the same. Sure it costs money, but that's exactly why you remember.
- Roland and Boss (or was it Yamaha ?) used in purpose a "reversed" polarity on their audio hardware and would not always indicate the polarity on the box. If you decide to use a non yahama/roland etc stock DC adapter, most of the time you would totally burn the unit. Okay, that's really a shame for a example but you'll get the idea.
- people have to be responsibilized when wiring a $80 or $135 board. If you make them think they can do anything with it... they will... stupidity sometimes has no limit, you have to put boundaries somewhere and should not encourage improper uses.

Erv'

[Novastar]

All excellent points, Erv...

And for the record, Meridian--from reading some stuff on fx-sabers and this thread... I was obviously getting the wrong idea of what might happen. Here it is:

What I THOUGHT was being said:
* batteries are wired correctly for + & -
* batteries drain too far... and the board allows a reverse polarity to kill it

What I believe WAS ACTUALLY being said:
* Some idiot "mixes up" + & - wiring--ignoring the wiring guide which is CLEARLY marked... and the board dies

I just wanted to be clear on what I *THOUGHT* was being said. I'm no electronics engineer, so... what I thought was happening may not even be possible... but it sure is how I was beginning to understand it.

That being said--I've never once "mixed up" the + & - leads on any saber I've ever worked on... and I've got so little experience it's not even funny.

I *HAVE* accidentally "shorted" the batteries with a metal kill switch... but... using the Li-Ions with the PCB saved the batteries... and it was on a "resistor-only" setup, so even if I had messed up--not a big deal.

Anyhow... HAPPY THANKSGIVING in advance...

[Ghostbat]

What I THOUGHT was being said:
* batteries are wired correctly for + & -
* batteries drain too far... and the board allows a reverse polarity to kill it

This is what I got as well.

[Novastar]

Uh-oh... well, wait a second, wait a second... maybe I WASN'T being a bad listener??!?!?

Is this still an issue? Anyone? That is...

* Batteries wired correctly (+ & - correct)
* They drain too low, reverse polarity, and this kills the US board

If so... the best option is (protected) Li-Ions hands down. The PCB will not allow overdrain.

[xwingband]

Ultra was selling his first overlord's with unprotected li-ions. I believe they had an IC up with the board... but I don't know.

For li-ions I don't take chances. I buy cells with built in protection so that I don't have to worry about the cells and it's hardly more complicated than working with Ni-MH.