Making our own sound fonts

[xwingband]

This related to Erv's board but I thought it could warrant a seperate topic.

I started playing with the four banks on the saber. I initially just tested by changing a few sounds... conlusion: I suck at this.

It sounds different on the saber and the oddest things are in the saber but not in the files I hear on the computer. I'm using Sound Forge so I'm pretty sure I can do everything. I just need tips.

So please share. I guess next I'll probably record new bank sounds and find a boot I like.

Anyone have a good force lightning sound? I also think I want my boot sound to be the x-wing flyby sound on the older games.

[Hasid Lafre]

Ive alwase been a fan of the FL when palpy is going at luke right before vader tosses him.

[Novastar]

Well, X... despite what people might think--creating sound files is actually a lot more difficult (and more of an art) than one might believe. There are many considerations when creating sound, and in this case, we need to think about the application and the delivery method. Some important things to remember:

1. ZERO CROSSING POINT. There is a lot of explanation to be made here, but just think to fade in and fade out the first and last (let's say) 0.05 seconds of each sound. I could extrapolate more, but it will get complicated.

2. <1DB IS BEST. You want to be careful on how "loud" your sounds are, depending on the speaker and also on the quality of the sound itself. Don't go higher than 1dB. In fact, I recommend staying under it as much as possible--say around 0.8dB.

3. CLEAN "ATTACK" AND FADE. If your sound is "suddenly" too harsh, or drops off too quickly, your speaker might have some trouble adjusting. Especially since it is small. Go easy on it if possible. I had trouble with my dark side sounds in this way, but they are passable on a good speaker. My light side ones are better.

4. NON-REPETITIVE MIX OF "HUM" SOUND. This is tough to do, but you really need to get creative with this. I recommend Erv's software to mix all of your sounds (on his website)... but you can do it yourself just as easily.

5. ORIGINAL FILE VS. .RAW FORMAT. Start with a very high quality original (say 16 bit, 44,100Hz @ 160kbps PCM .wav) and then convert to the .raw format that Erv needs for the SD card.

6. SOUND DYNAMICS. If the sound doesn't really match the soundwaves that the speaker is most able to play... the sound won't be so great. This is again... really hard to get "right".

I'm still learning myself--and am by no means a professional, but yes... it takes A LOT of work--even when mixing Ben Burtt's sounds with that of your own, or simply altering, stretching, pitch shifting, etc. It's hard.

[xwingband]

The most odd thing so far has been the hum... I just altered the pitch uniformly across the hum and power off/on.

But there is a mysterious knocking in the hum. It's not present when I listen to it through heapphones on my computer, but in the saber it does.

I liked a blaster deflect I made... but the force lightning one is hard so far. I can't even find a decent one. It's a lot like the lockup so maybe I should make a darkside bank with the shimmer effect off. Then keep the push effect but act like the lockup is "lightning".

I'm going to keep trying. I gave up for today... I'll probably search and record for sounds now.

This will take a while. I want an expressly sith one, ancient and growly. A "jedi" then the rest is up in the air.

[Novastar]

X to the Z... it is possible that you will not hear a break in a looping sound via a computer software because it may automatically "play" with the sound.

You *must* create a "zero-crossing" setup in the loop, and the sound pitch and general tone must be able to match up well. Also, you want to loop a sound that is fairly "long". Three seconds is too short, while five or more will work. Granted, if you go too far, it doesn't always work (at least on BT v1.2)... I tried an 8 or 9 second loop and it never worked--the CF v1.2 simply never loaded properly.

I'm working on re-making my darkside sounds... I didn't like them all that much, but wanted SOMEthing for C4 that was not like the Nova font.

[Madcow]

One thing I thought about doing is making a saber speaker setup that actually hooks up to my computer's sound output. I would probably use a cheap little amp - but you could try wiring the speaker straight to a 1/8" audio plug - just make sure it's a stereo plug (not mono).
This way - the sound plays from the computer through a saber speaker & resonance chamber- the same as my real saber.

[erv]

good points you guys are exchanging here.
I've added that on my forum, you'll find a nice link for a good sound archive (chhhht, don't tell it too loud)
http://www.plecterlabs.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=106

zero crossing : capital point. Generally I start the sound with an upgoing period of sound and stop it with the downside of the waveform. Listen the sound in loop in the computer to make sure the zero crossing is correct. Even with that you might get a very very little knock at the end of the sound when looping, I'd say it's maybe more easy to hear it on V2 cause the 16 bits are so clear that it reveals more details in the sound. Nothing about a big "knocking". Xwing, could you detail the sound, this knocking thing you hear ? is it at the end of the sound, when looping. If it sounds like a big "burst" or "spike", it might be a zero crossing problem. Don't forget as well that it's not because the waveform is properly linked at the loop point that you won't get a burst : spectrums have to be "compatible" before the beginning and the end. Look at the waveform at the end and begining of the sound, and look for hi freq patterns. Often, removing one or 2 periods of sound at the end make a smoother transition and you have no more pop or click.

Sound forge : definitly THE tool you need. The only one so far that can generate the proper RAW format (16 bits, unsigned, little endian) for CF V2 (I know, it sucks that it's the only program to do that).

long sound problem : a problem of v1. Improved SD card management and compatibility. Works much better with V2, and it's going even better with 2.1 and 2.5. Should not be a problem anymore.

Sounding different in the saber ? for sure. Nothing compared between the speaker I'm providing and earphones or hifi speakers (even cheap ones). But the new speaker will help a lot. I've almost received them (they are waiting for me to pick them up at the post office). The spectrum that can be played by the current speaker is not so wide. Frequencies loss, different timbre (and lack of bass)

Think about NORMALIZING the sounds before mixing them. Like Novastar said, not too loud, even if for clash sounds I like to go to the max, or even with a bit of saturation, it gives some crunch to the sound.

Novastar is right... it's hard... mixing a pop song is incredibly hard, especially if you want it to sound good on a MP3 player + earphone as well as on a cheap car stereo. Not everyone has NS10 speakers at home...
Even now, once the selection of sound is done, it takes me 1 to 2 hours to make a sound font.
And yes, you must use the sound mixing utility. Use an attenuation (Att. numbox) of .7 this works well in general. This parameter is an automatic gain control of the hum to lower it a bit (of the factor/ratio of Att.) so that the played sound fx express itself at a good volume and without saturation (reminder : mixing 2 sounds = adding each sample. If both samples > half the dynamic => clipping). This helps very much having a loud hum that fades a bit during sound Fx then comes back.
I did not used it so properly on the "bank1" I'm providing in the last archive, but the result is really nice with novastar + darkstar soundfonts (I used .7 of attenuation for them).

Xwing, thanks for starting a subject about that, it's might help people and convince them to start making their own soundfont !
Erv'

[Novastar]

Great to hear you almost have the new speakers, Erv... be sure to send me a few, heheh! Glad to help connect you and the Lux Trinity with them...

As to the proper RAW format (16 bits, unsigned, little endian) for CF V2... Goldwave can indeed provide this proper format. I used it for v1.2 as well.

Also, you do not HAVE to use Erv's mixing program to do the sounds... but if you have little to no experience working with sounds, you bloody heck as well BETTER! Otherwise your sounds will likely be pretty lousy.

I don't know how Erv does only 1 or 2 hours....!!! Me, I *SLAVE* over the sound fonts. I want them to be perfect. It's worth the hassle, as once I get them right... they can be used without worry for a long time.

Finally, you will sometimes simply have to re-mix your sounds. This is just how it is, given the application of how Erv's board works. If everyone's sound files came out of professional studio, unchanged and unaltered... and the sounds were SPECIFICALLY made for CF... then it would be no big deal...

But alas... it's a tough job. Novastar will take care of you guys (for at least 3 sound fonts), and Erv has your back for some as well obviously. I haven't tried Jonitus' or the Shinobi ones, but I'll try listening to them soon enough...

[987654321a]

i know a link to where you can find a buttload of sounds from double sabers to singles. and so on. i just have to find it ill post it tomorow tho.

[Novastar]

Countdown... I use sounds from Ben Burtt all the time in the fonts. Using "pro" sounds is not the point... getting things to sound just right and at the same time have the desired pitch, length and tonal quality (along with the zero-crossing point concern)... IS the point!

There are throngs of sounds available on theforce.net via the fanfilm databases and so forth. Tons more can be found via Jedi Academy, Outcast, KOTOR, etc. etc.

In the end--taking stock sounds with absolutely no modification... is relatively "easy"... but doesn't always produce the sound font you want given our application.