Resonance -- let's get this hammered out!

**Eandori** · 01-26-2009, 11:58 AM

I have not read through this thread yet, so I apologize in advance if I'm commenting on topics already completely worked out... but here's my kneejerk response anyways

I have found that speaker chamber size, capacity, and back-venting to be extremely important. Back when I made my first saber (proto1 with clash flash) I spent much time playing with the speaker chamber size and placement. I could hear big changes in overall tone.

Volume also was effected greatly by these changes. I was building my first few sabers with no back speaker venting. Just venting at the bottom of my sabers. Then, when I was working on Proto3B I started noticing how LOUD the saber was when testing it mostly disconnected. I had the bottom of the saber together but the top of the hilt was off and the middle tube was just open with some wires coming out. The volume was much more intense.

So on Proto 3B I drilled some venting holes in the middle of the hilt, above the battery. The difference was immense, it went from being much quieter then my Proto3A saber, to much louder. Additionally, since I now had holes in the hilt I went ahead and put some blink LED's in there to add to the effect. It worked out really well.

Long story short, I do think speaker chamber size, and shape are very important. Additionally, I think back-venting can also lead to really good results in some setups. It sure did for me.

My final comment on the subject... I would personally avoid giving out solid rules for building your speaker solution in your saber. You might do everything the same as another guy, but have one minor physical change that just alters the entire effect. I can easily see something working VERY WELL for one saber, and making it worse in another. It's a case by case basis so any discussion should probably revolve around understanding basics of sound... then each saber smith figures out how it applies to EACH saber they are working on.

Cheers,

**Goodman** · 01-26-2009, 12:06 PM

Thanks Eandori, good point along with Novastar's; that there are many variables in our type of application (size, limited space, etc) that determine optimal sound.

Would you mind posting specs/measurements on your particular setups?

**FenderBender** · 01-26-2009, 12:51 PM

Originally Posted by Novastar

I'm curious if you usually used the same MR speaker/battery pack with most of your MR board setups?

Only reason I ask is simply because--yup, I've found that messing with the MRs can allow for creative resonance as well. In fact... that's how I started to pay a LOT more attention to resonance in general. It's a long story, but--I noticed a significant difference from a "Mace" and a "Luke ROTJ". To be certain, I swapped the packs. The "good/better sound" didn't change... so I knew it was no longer the speaker.

Anyhow--CERTAINLY the MRs have a giant failure on resonance. But I will say... the speakers were pretty good (for the time they were made). The speakers on the MRs were probably the best of their kind back in... well whatever year it was... 2002? 2003?? Whatever.

Nah, I make my own battery/speaker packs similar to what Tim sells, only the Speaker mount isnt solid, its open on the back. I sometimes stuff the back of the speaker with foam, sometimes not. The depth of the mount will vary depending on how much hilt room I have left.

**Eandori** · 01-26-2009, 02:04 PM

Would you mind posting specs/measurements on your particular setups?

For the last saber which really sounded great, here's what I did...

This pommel: http://www.thecustomsabershop.com/MP...-3-v2-P90.aspx
This center section:http://www.thecustomsabershop.com/4-...tor--P123.aspx
This speaker:http://www.thecustomsabershop.com/Pr...aker--P77.aspx
The older speaker mount (grey ring, delicate, felt like rough ceramic but it was plastic)
This pommel cap (similar...): http://www.thecustomsabershop.com/MP...le-6-P263.aspx
This recharge port (I cut a groove in the grey ring for the wires to get by into the hilt): http://www.thecustomsabershop.com/21...-Jack-P37.aspx
I drilled an array of holes in a diamond pattern just below the upper threads on the 4" hilt. With the 8.4v 7xAAA battery pack I use there was a space gap above the battery but below the threads. So the holes and blink LED's went there.

CF with an 8.4v battery is VERY loud when turned up all the way. High enough to distort and burn out the speaker in fact. You must turn it down. It worked great! VERY Loud.

I liked the tone in my Proto1 saber but I cannot give you any info on that one because the speaker chamber was custom made out of film canisters, plastic caps and glue. But It was toned right and sounded great. The setup I described for Proto3B was louder... but I didn't like the tone as much. Personal Preference.

**Novastar** · 01-26-2009, 05:55 PM

Originally Posted by Eandori

...on Proto 3B I drilled some venting holes in the middle of the hilt, above the battery. The difference was immense, it went from being much quieter then my Proto3A saber, to much louder. Additionally, since I now had holes in the hilt I went ahead and put some blink LED's in there to add to the effect. It worked out really well.

I remember when we were talking about this Edwin... heheh, the meet up at "The Nut Tree" in Vacaville, hahahah...

But yep, that is PRECISELY what I did for the Flange III sabers back in mid-2007 (which people could see on the videos), and it certainly made a big difference.

And although I'm not ready to say that it's a "unilateral" thing for all... I *WILL* say that it makes a lot of sense--the more places the soundwaves have to bounce all over the place and THEN escape after reverberating off a bunch of surfaces, then out holes... the better. This is why nearly every speaker FRAME you see out there (not the physical unit itself necessarily)... has "cheese grater" style holes. Whether big or small, varying in size or not... they have them.

Just look at your TV (or speakers with your TV)... your computer speakers... your car stereo's spk setup... your headphones (may have to look under the puffy pads, heheh)... etc.

It's just a "physics of sound" thing.

Sure, everyone's saber is different, but (as Edwin knows)... the GENERAL properties of sound and resonance remain the same. Just like... there's no getting around it: you'll HAVE to provide a decent amount of voltage and current to get a bright LED. There is no escaping it.

Another way of thinking: you can't give a Luxeon III 100mA and "configure it like a pro" and magically produce a similar result to the same Lux III @ 1000mA. That's just the way it is. Now sure, you can vary things like blade length, mirror tips, diffusion, optics, etc. in small ways... but ultimately--as I said... there is no escaping it: you could never yield the same brightness as the Lux III @ 1000mA.

Well... without being TOTALLY unreasonable and just covering up the LED with black tape, hahahahha.

**Eandori** · 01-26-2009, 06:53 PM

Sounds like I'm in full agreement with you here. What works for one saber setup, might not work for another. But there are always uniform laws of physics that apply. The trick is seeing which effects are playing the biggest role in YOUR setup. That can be hard to identify and a really good reason to have a thread like this.

You know me... I would probably start by going over basics of soundwaves and the physics around those. Then I would apply it to simple models of saber hilts. Then I would start changing properties of those hilts and see how it effects the expected outcome. All the while... doing RL tests to verify theory is true. Eventually landing on a few "rules of thumb" that saber-smiths could use.

Ug... that sounds exciting but... a lot of work

**Darth Siggious** · 02-13-2009, 05:52 PM

I know it may seem crazy at first, but I put a thin piece of Auralex in the pommel (MPS style 3v2) of my saber and it took away the trebles enough that I got a satisfactory deep Sith sounding saber out of the US2.0 (which IMO is very trebly). It was quick and cheap, so I went with it to try it. Though it honestly sounds best with my hand cupped over the bottom of the MPS insert. Nice and low, but obviously very low on the volume too.

I figured that I'd be dampening the metal tinniness of the aluminum tube that the 1W speaker is sitting in (which does not sound like a good idea, nor sound good to begin with, I mean, a 1W speaker in a metal tube?).

I agree that technology presents the biggest hindrance to good resonance in these sabers, especially for me because of how money the Sith sabers sound in the films on my home theater setup, you guys KNOW what I'm talking about!! For real!! And you can't mimic those sounds too well with these little speakers and their outputs. The sound frequencies are too high to get that much needed bass...but that's me and my love of everything Sith talkin'.

**Novastar** · 02-17-2009, 12:16 AM

It's not crazy at all (if you read all of this thread)...

Further, I can at least say... well... don't count out those little micro-speakers quite yet. Some of them pack a bigger punch than most of you might be aware of...

Case in point would be the little "iPod" style speakers you can find out there. They have a fairly nice dynamic range. And, the speakers TCSS has in the store are very well-suited to saber needs... these also have a good dynamic range.

But it is true (as a display of physics and sound) that 98% of super large speakers with tons of power at their command (read: home stereo system, nice computer speakers, nice CD player/stereo/radio) can easily "out punch" a couple of battery cells, limited resonance room (read: "one or two inches in a saber hilt") and sizes that must be 45mm or less. More likely 36mm or less. That will always be the case.

Still. When I hear my own Flange III sabers... they're obnoxiously loud for what they are... and it takes a crowded room with tons of noise to even DULL the sounds emanating from them...

**ziongraffix** · 03-27-2009, 06:42 PM

So maybe a little off topic but... If I wanted to increase the resonance in my MR Vader would I just try to free up a bit more space in front of, and seal the back of the speaker? Could I swap the speaker out w/ a CSS speaker just by cutting and re soldering?