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Thread: Resonance -- let's get this hammered out!

  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by xwingband View Post
    lol, Jonitus... I guess I should word it better. What you are talking about is good. I think a good ear can just find it with experimentation, but that would help to have a chart.

    What I was referring too would be someone overthinking it and trying to design certain pitches, say the average of the hum sound, and making there saber to resonate with it... that's overboard. :P
    you think thats overboard .. hah. you should look into how some solid wood archtop guitar builders Tap Tune the sound board as they're carving to get the perfect pitch, but they end up with a $10,000+ guitar to sell

  2. #22

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    Thats what Martin and Stonebridge does, sithlordfaust.... good insight!


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  3. #23
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    Default Sound & Resonance... *PHEW!!!!*

    Quote Originally Posted by Goodman View Post
    Have any of the original posters completed any tests?
    To a certain extent--yes. I had two different styles of "iPod-ish" speakers if you will. One has been in the darkside Flange III (red LED) for some time, and... since it's a 45mm jobby and it can SOLELY fit in the end cap (1.5" sink tube w/ screw cap)... there is literally no extra room to add resonance in the pommel direction...

    However... it's PLENTY loud and crisp and clear... and it DOES have plenty of resonance back "up the saber, in the hilt" since I have all the little "cheese grater holes"--for the speaker/indicator LEDs--in that hilt.

    An example of it when it's "close to the camera speaker":
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOFqzLO-_rc

    It sounds stellar, and blows away everything in earshot. And God help you if you're in a small room... I mean I can't even hear myself think, it's just insane and actually pretty darn ANNOYING when you get right down to it. It drowns out the TV... background noise... my g/f asking me questions... LOL! ... it can drown out pretty much anything. But I just don't even care, I mean... God I hate turning it on in a small room! It's... LOUD. Obnoxiously so. I dunno. It might actually be TOO much. I didn't think I'd ever say that, but whatever... mine ears doth bleed...

    Alright... then the next test was a different iPod-ish speaker that would go in the "lightside" Flange III (green LED). This one couldn't use a 45mm for several reasons, but... whatever--the important thing you need to know is... this speaker was more like 30mm or something--I'm not sure. But it's a lot smaller in diameter than the 45, and actually about 0.5" LONGER. Heavy as heck too.

    So then it's like... well... "is this going to be as loud and 'comparative' as the 45mm one in the darkside Flange III?"... and the answer is... YES--to a certain extent...

    This speaker has the ability to have a bit more resonance "out the pommel" than the other one... and the resonance "up the saber" is similar to that of the darkside one.

    They are almost equivalent in volume output and overall feel, with the 45mm winning by a little bit. A LITTLE bit. What I discovered was... I don't think it's all THAT important to go for a 45mm iPod-ish speaker over a 30mm-ish one... since the overall result is extremely close.

    That being said--the 30mm-ish one is LONGER than the 45mm one.

    Finally... it DID take some tweaks with making the speaker sit "just so" to get the optimum sound quality + resonance, and... I wasn't able to divine any kind of formulaic way for it.

    Though I'm not a Cornell/Harvard sound graduate with honors or something. Maybe they can figure things out otherwise, but... I say we have only these general ideas:

    * Speaker needs to sit tightly... sit STILL!
    * Resonance cavity that is around or = to the speaker's OD to be both "in front" and "in back" of the speaker... is ideal
    * Those cavities should be at least ~1" or so... and sometimes more is better... and sometimes a little less! But certainly not < 0.125" or something stupid.
    * "iPod-ish" speakers can be an exception since... well... they have built-in resonance cavities (to a certain extent). I mean just look at them.
    * Little "cheese grater" or "speaker grille" holes all about the hilt both "in front" and "in back" of the speaker will allow the sound to escape in a more pleasing and dynamic way... vs. just having an open pommel speaker grille or whatever you want to call it.
    * Varying the size of the "hilt holes" is probably a good idea, seeing how sound behaves (waves = peaks, troughs, amplitude, etc.).
    * Having SOLELY a pommel speaker grille will cause the sound to be VERY uni-directional (duh) and also be very ear-piercing (duh!).
    * That being said--try having NO holes for sound to escape (not even in the pommel) and you see how assy it will sound. Or should I say... it's like an indefinite "mute" setting, hahahahahah
    * Two speakers right next to one another serve almost NO purpose... they would at LEAST have to be something like 12" from one another. At LEAST. Probably more.

    Uh... and as Forrest Gump might say... "Huh... well thaht's all ah have to say about that..."

    Quote Originally Posted by Goodman View Post
    If not, for what it's worth I'll be conducting a comparison between an MR speaker, a TCSS, and a 3W speaker. I'll be basing the comparisons on the directions given throughout this thread back in 2007, using different types of chamber materials, backing materials, sealing methods, and front/rear spacing.
    That would be pretty cool. God knows, I would never want to do something so involved... sound drives me BONKERS as it is. There's just so much possible variance and so many different sounds, environments and all sorts of stuff... it's like... sometimes I get so sick of sound I just wanna pull my nuts right off and start chewing on them... (!!!!!! !!)

    hahahah, just kidding... but seriously... sometimes working with sound will just make ya go crazy, hahhahaha
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  4. #24

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    I know what you mean nova! lol, but what you stated was just plain brutal! LOL! I put about 1" of resonance in my nibiru CF saber! and its pretty lound. (loud enough anyways.)

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Novastar View Post
    To a certain extent--yes. I had two different styles of "iPod-ish" speakers if you will.
    Do you happen to have links or item names since I'm looking to go the home brew method–the speaker in TCSS is awesome, but my hilt design just won't fit that *head desk*. If not, it's back to the drawing board (though I've an innovative idea that /might/ work given precision, and a bit of utter madness. Which I'm okay with. But I'm also cheap and madness in custom CNC Milling is expensive *dies*). Ah, heck–just give me hope I'll find a decent speaker with a diameter between .5 and .75 inches XD

  6. #26
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    I waited a bit to respond to this for several reasons:

    * the last post is way off-topic and I was hoping others would say something since I just posted a MOUNTAIN of 411 on resonance experiences...

    * TCSS speaker = 28mm... and... the ones I specifically state in the monstrous post refer to 30mm, 36mm and 45mm speakers, so... I SERIOUSLY doubt that your design will better accommodate LARGER speakers over the 28mm ones. That's just common sense...

    * You "have an innovative idea that /might/ work given precision, and a bit of utter madness".

    Uh... and as Forrest Gump might say... "Huh... well thaht's all ah have to say about that..."
    ~~ GREYTALE NOVASTAR (Writer, Director, Choreographer, Sound Designer, Actor, Saber Designer, Vocal Artist)
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  7. #27

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    There is a lot of variables involved with "tuning" a resonance chamber. The material used, surrounding airspace & materials not to mention positioning of the speaker. Then you have to decide which frequency will give the best sound & then you need to tune for it. Acoustic testing equipment would be ideal but there is another way. Try getting online or talking with a car stereo speaker enclosure fabricator. The reputable ones usually have lots of hands on experience with calculations for given speaker sizes etc. & remember that theses guys build systems that are judged with some fairly complex equipment at audio competitions. It's worth a shot!

    Quote Originally Posted by Novastar View Post
    Ok folks... I know very little about resonance other than the following:

    1. Space in front of your speaker is just as important as space behind it.

    2. There is a certain amount of cavity that is "ideal" given any speaker setup. Although that is tough to find, and what we're talking about.

    Does anyone out there have some really good data on how to go about creating a very "tuned" resonance cavity? I know Erv has hinted toward it in his .pdf, but naturally this is a detailed subject.

    I can safely say that resonance plays a *GIGANTOR* role in making an identical speaker in saber X... sound far, far better than saber Y.

    It's true that a better speaker = a better speaker... but you can also have:

    * Average speaker + GREAT setup = FANTASTIC sound
    vs.
    * Fantastic spaker + POOR setup = Average sound

    Thoughts? Best to reply here if you really know what the heck is going on with sound. I've already done a bunch of experimental "amateur" tests that simply are via my ears... using an apples to apples comparison of the same speaker in like 5 differing resonance setups.

  8. #28
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    Car guys will (generally) not be of much help. The dynamic range and pure size of the speakers (and the resonance chambers that can be made available) in cars are several, several, several times greater in superiority to what can be had or used in something as small of form and specific in diameter as sabers.

    Also--as to tuning for frequency--you're going to be (again, generally) out of luck due to the super small space... and also, even if you COULD tune with space... that space is usually better used to fill the saber with electronics, batteries, etc. Although I suppose someone with a 20" hilt could use 5" of space for resonance. Or something to that effect.

    Materials... now THAT'S definitely a good one to muck around with... although in the end--most hilts are metal, and no matter what resonance chamber is used... the metal hilt still plays its role.

    Calibration equipment would be *INCREDIBLE*... ... but... not only would it be doubtful to even get ahold of (where do ya wanna start looking?)--it seems like it'd be like shooting for 100% perfection when getting things ~90% would be "just as well".

    It kind of reminds me of the whole lumens / LED driving thing. If you get 90% of the lumens... it really doesn't matter when it's compared to the one @ 100%. You'll never be able to detect the difference.
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  9. #29
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    Eh, I figure if it sounds good when Im done, then great. Every saber that I've done with MR boards has been at elast twice as loud and a TON deeper than the original MR saber could have hoped to sound. I cant wait to play with our CF's though. THAT's going to get special treatment.

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  10. #30
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    I'm curious if you usually used the same MR speaker/battery pack with most of your MR board setups?

    Only reason I ask is simply because--yup, I've found that messing with the MRs can allow for creative resonance as well. In fact... that's how I started to pay a LOT more attention to resonance in general. It's a long story, but--I noticed a significant difference from a "Mace" and a "Luke ROTJ". To be certain, I swapped the packs. The "good/better sound" didn't change... so I knew it was no longer the speaker.

    Anyhow--CERTAINLY the MRs have a giant failure on resonance. But I will say... the speakers were pretty good (for the time they were made). The speakers on the MRs were probably the best of their kind back in... well whatever year it was... 2002? 2003?? Whatever.
    ~~ GREYTALE NOVASTAR (Writer, Director, Choreographer, Sound Designer, Actor, Saber Designer, Vocal Artist)
    ~~ Balance of Power, EP I: "Into The Lion's Den"
    ~~ Balance of Power, EP II: "Ashes of The Phoenix"
    ~~ The Crystal Focus Sound CD Compendiums... are HERE! ~~
    ~~ Nova & Caine's Staged Combat System... comin' SOON!
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