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Thread: Noob wanting bright saber Prizm v5.1

  1. #1

    Default Noob wanting bright saber Prizm v5.1

    Hi all. I'm working with a 3rd party to install my next saber pair. On the main-hand I was looking for a real bright cyan (truly between blue and green, not just a light blue). On the offhand a bright golden-white. I was looking for some kind of clash effect, but am hesitant to sacrifice a whole die just for FoC. Sabercore 3.0 offers PWM overdriving for a nice subtle FoC on their quad-cree that I am satisfied with, so I don't need to blind the whole room on clash. These will be used for full contact dueling with a heavy grade blade, so battery life is a consideration (18650)(Yes I know I have to trade power for light, but effeciency also comes into play). I won't be using RGB and would like to run each die at full. I know that there are some great colors to be had from mixing different LEDs at differing powers, but my priority is a bright dramatic blade in whatever color I end up using for each.

    I started looking at quad-cree LEDs as that's what I have in my 4 SF sabers, and after some research, have discovered that though 4 dice are brighter than 3, the fact that the tri-crees have a dedicated optic for each die makes for a blade that is more even and as bright using 3 dice. It also seems that though the increase in brightness per die used is non-linear, that 3 dice is still appreciably brighter than just using 2 at once. I also know that some people have made dazzlingly bright blades by overdriving thier LEDs to the limit, but have 10-minute battery lives.

    For whites I have been recommended Cree XP-Ls but those are offered in both 1-up and 3-up configurations. (Perhaps a custom 3-up Cool White XP-L/Cool White XP-L/Amber XP-E2?)


    Someone also recommended using automotive headlight LEDs? I have no idea where I would get these nor how to incorporate them.

    For Cyan its seems I have to choose between Tri-Rebel Cyan/Cyan and Tri-Cree Green/Blue. The rebel would preclude me it seems from using the vaunted XP-L if I do end up using a dedicated die for FoC.


    This is, it seems, the limit of what my research can determine and the answers lie in experience, which I am lacking. What do you guys think? What options do I have for Flash/Flicker/Pulse on Clash with the Prizm v5.1?


    P.S.Since most forms of FoC put one die on its own channel, does that mean that it's incompatible with a quick-connect system? I'd be much more willing to experiment if I knew I could swap out LED modules on the fly



    Sources:
    http://forums.thecustomsabershop.com...light=tri-cree
    http://forums.thecustomsabershop.com...light=tri-cree
    http://forums.thecustomsabershop.com...light=tri-cree
    http://forums.thecustomsabershop.com...1520-Best-CYAN
    http://forums.thecustomsabershop.com...ightness-Chart

    Parallel Discussion:
    https://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/index.php?topic=52907.0
    http://saberforgeforum.com/forum/sab...v-tri-cree-led
    Last edited by Major_Tom; 02-12-2018 at 04:21 PM. Reason: added sources

  2. #2

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    The Prizm 5.1 supports string blades as well. This is what my next saber is going to be using.

    2 strips of 144 "neopixel" leds will be brighter then any tri or quad cree out there. It also has the advantage of being completely customizable as to color. Full spectrum color shifts are very possible and the absolute best flash on clash type effects including individual blaster hits showing up on random sections of the blade.

    The first downside is that the stips while more durable then traditional string blades are still subject to extreme forces. I don't duel but my understanding from folks that do and who use string blades is they will bring along ready made blades incase they do get a break in their string. I have seen some videos online of folks really hitting hard with their neopixel blades and they stood up so I have no idea how often you actually need to swap out blades.

    The other downside is that they eat batteries pretty quickly. If you plan to use them contionous for hours on end I would suggest having one made that allows you to swap out your 18650 battery. Bringing a couple of spare batteries is pretty easy and if built to be swapped out you can design a saber that will allow it without fuss.

    /shrug just my two cents.

  3. #3

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    Welcome to the Forums.

    Well, I’ll start by saying that SF’s LEDs aren’t the greatest. Also, that particular company isn’t really discussed in the rest of the community.

    Now, to answer your question, (not getting into the Neopixels) your best bet for and “in hilt” Cyan is a Tri-Cree (Blue/Green/White). The XP-L needs a considerable amount of Amperage to get to their “brightest”, and I haven’t seen them offered in a 3 up configuration, unless Cree has recently started to offer it. We use to carry the 1Up whites here, but I guess they weren’t popular. For the other saber you mentioned, White/White/Amber should be fine.

    As for some of the other suggestions I have seen, let the people who suggested the headlights actually show you how they did it. Madcow and K-2SO had it right, and are giving you the best advice from what I have read.

    As far as using quick disconnects, you’re not likely going to be able to use them unless you find connectors with the appropriate number of pins and do-it-yourself (well create it yourself).
    Last edited by Forgetful Jedi Knight; 02-12-2018 at 06:55 PM.
    TCSS MODERATOR
    All n00bs READ these first (PLEASE)!!!:
    1. Forum Guidelines
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    "Yeah, yeah, I've heard it all before... you want blindingly bright, super loud, running 1138 blinkies off of the cheapest sound card you can find AND you want all of it to run on a battery the size of a dime, and run for a very, VERY long time. That one cracks me up every time..."
    My email: fjk_tcss@yahoo.com

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by minorhero View Post
    The Prizm 5.1 supports string blades as well. This is what my next saber is going to be using.

    2 strips of 144 "neopixel" leds will be brighter then any tri or quad cree out there. It also has the advantage of being completely customizable as to color. Full spectrum color shifts are very possible and the absolute best flash on clash type effects including individual blaster hits showing up on random sections of the blade.

    The first downside is that the stips while more durable then traditional string blades are still subject to extreme forces. I don't duel but my understanding from folks that do and who use string blades is they will bring along ready made blades incase they do get a break in their string. I have seen some videos online of folks really hitting hard with their neopixel blades and they stood up so I have no idea how often you actually need to swap out blades.

    The other downside is that they eat batteries pretty quickly. If you plan to use them contionous for hours on end I would suggest having one made that allows you to swap out your 18650 battery. Bringing a couple of spare batteries is pretty easy and if built to be swapped out you can design a saber that will allow it without fuss.

    /shrug just my two cents.
    I'm aware that neopixels give amazing results, and are sturdier than they were. Nonetheless, as I am too much a child to leave these on a shelf, the aim was to make a robust saber. Instead of kid gloves I would just rather spend $30-$40 on extruded polycarbonate than upwards of $100 when the blade does crap out. I am using heavy dueling blades atm and don't plan on going any more fragile than that.

    It is a good idea to have a hot swappable 18650 though... will talk to my install guy.


    Quote Originally Posted by Forgetful Jedi Knight View Post
    Welcome to the Forums.

    Well, I’ll start by saying that SF’s LEDs aren’t the greatest. Also, that particular company isn’t really discussed in the rest of the community.
    Not really pertinent to the thread... I'm aware of at least some of the tension and distaste and regardless of whether or not it is merited we are talking about hardware optimization here. Let's check our biases (even if they are deserved!) at the door.

    Quote Originally Posted by Forgetful Jedi Knight View Post
    Now, to answer your question, (not getting into the Neopixels) your best bet for and “in hilt” Cyan is a Tri-Cree (Blue/Green/White). The XP-L needs a considerable amount of Amperage to get to their “brightest”, and I haven’t seen them offered in a 3 up configuration, unless Cree has recently started to offer it. We use to carry the 1Up whites here, but I guess they weren’t popular. For the other saber you mentioned, White/White/Amber should be fine.

    As for some of the other suggestions I have seen, let the people who suggested the headlights actually show you how they did it. Madcow and K-2SO had it right, and are giving you the best advice from what I have read.
    LEDSupply offers a 3-up XP-L pcb, as well as a customizable option in which XP-L/XP-L/XP-E2 is an option... I lack the technical wherewithal to know the logistics of such a setup tho...
    Also, in another thread someone said that as the XP-L die and XP-E2 die are different sizes, the optics would be incompatible, but on LEDSupply they state that carclo optics are compatible with both. Can anyone clear this up?

    As for cyan, the fourth link above asserts that two cyan rebels will beat out 1x Cree Blue+1xCree Green, as well as being a truer cyan. That is of course at listed amperages, maybe that changes in practical lightsaber applications?

    Quote Originally Posted by Forgetful Jedi Knight View Post
    As far as using quick disconnects, you’re not likely going to be able to use them unless you find connectors with the appropriate number of pins and do-it-yourself (well create it yourself).
    What about using one of these cables used for motherboard/PC case RGB lighting?




    P.S. Thanks for all the feedback guys, I'd be lost without you

  5. #5

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    Regarding the cables, if they can withstand the Amperage that you'll be putting through them, go for it.

    As for the Cyan color question, if you use Cyan, you're stuck with the shade you get (whatever that turns out to be). With a rB and G, at leat you can mix them somewhat to get a shade you may actually like. Plus Crees can handle a bit more current, which can make them a bit brighter.

    The tri star base and optics and such are something you would be taking your chances on, if you go that route since the LEDs are different sizes. I guess it all comes down to how much you are willing to spend to experiment.

    And regarding my comments about that other company, they rarely use anything that the rest of us would consider "top of the line" technology - I've torn apart and fixed enough of their stuff through the years to know. It was also a subtle warning that most won't discuss them here or most other places in the community.
    TCSS MODERATOR
    All n00bs READ these first (PLEASE)!!!:
    1. Forum Guidelines
    2. FJKs Down and Dirty guide to Ohms Law

    "Yeah, yeah, I've heard it all before... you want blindingly bright, super loud, running 1138 blinkies off of the cheapest sound card you can find AND you want all of it to run on a battery the size of a dime, and run for a very, VERY long time. That one cracks me up every time..."
    My email: fjk_tcss@yahoo.com

  6. #6

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    You can get those from eBay with crimp pins, id post the link, but cant even though TCSS doesnt sell them.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by PCModulus View Post
    You can get those from eBay with crimp pins, id post the link, but cant even though TCSS doesnt sell them.
    I've looked around and I can't find a good source for them other than finished extension cables which I would have to strip. I can't even find the name of the standard other than 4-pin connector, which also includes certain molex and ATX connectors, which would be too large for sabers. Any hints would be appreciated

  8. #8

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    I have done some experimenting with the SF Quad Crees with a single lens. To me, tricrees have been more satisfying. Not only that, but even with just one diode of the three shining through the carclo lens, the blade is illuminated very evenly for standard in-hilts. Then you are also burning less electricity, and getting longer run times.

    The neopixel blades I have are brighter still; however, the tradeoff there is the loss of run time and the need for bigger batteries. My 2cents: If you're going in-hilt LED's use a tri-cree with carclo lens. If you want brighter/more even than that, go with neopixels, if you're going to burn electicity, burn it to the ground.

    Tom

    "Let the past die."

  9. #9

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    Hello,

    While there are many options to get you to where you want to be I experimented a bit using a Cex. The results were not where I wanted for illumination but it was the perfect color. Next I used a Neopixel because of the scrolling and that it would be brighter. Again close to what I wanted but the color was close. My biggest issue was the diffusion. Again, my issue. Then not one to give up I went with the NEV Intelligent Strips. It was what I was looking for it worked with rice and programming the color, but it was really bright and even. Diffusion was easier and it was smaller and lighter than neopixel.
    Blades like sabers are all about what works for you.

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