First Saber - Crossguard, Hasbro Board, Parts List. Help Appreciated!

[Heeltoeshift]

Hey folks!

Thanks for existing, and for all the help. This forum is excellent.

I am planning to build a budget PVC crossguard saber, using the board from the Kylo Ren Bladebuilders saber.
Here is a wiring diagram I've been using made by YdurSolrac, and a link to the relevant thread:


Kylo-Wiring.jpg
http://forums.thecustomsabershop.com...ng-check/page2


Here is sort of what I am aiming for, like BigKevin's saber but with a working soundboard:
http://forums.thecustomsabershop.com...VC-Stunt-Saber



PARTS LIST SO FAR (clickable links):


Three 3W Amazon LEDs
Three Amazon LED Holders
Three Amazon Lenses
3 Heatsinks...? (not sure what is possible to use for above items)
3 Heatsink Thermal Adhesives
Battery + Speaker Holder... (need to determine acceptable voltage for soundboard+LEDs?)
Bass Speaker
Switch
4-wire quick-connect (switch)
6-wire quick connect (LEDS)
Kylo Ren BladeBuilders Soundboard
MOSFET Transistor from Radioshack
(PVC, glue, etc. for hilt)



I am going with LEDs, holders and lenses from amazon; for my 2nd saber I will splurge on MHS parts, nice LEDs, and the Prizm soundboard. This does, however, leave an issue with heatsinks and a way to hold the LED assembly together securely. I have heard that copper pipe ends can work, and polycarb tubing to hold together as BigKevin did, but I am unsure of the sizes, durability, etc.

Also, I am unsure of what voltage to send the board, and how that will affect the LED brightness. The board originally ran on 3V. The wiring thread listed above says econo-boards are known to burn out at 5.5V. Suggestions please? I'd like the LEDs to be as bright as possible.



So, to sum up:

1. Does the parts list look good overall? Any glaring omissions?

2. Suggestions on heatsinks to use?

3. Suggestions for holding LED assemblies together?

4. Suggestions for battery setup, considering board voltage limit and brightness of LEDs?


Thank you so much guys!

[FenixFire]

Well at only 80 lumen, those LEDs are 1/2 as bright as a single rebel die. 80 lumen is 20 less than the $0.88 flashlights you can get at the dollar store. I don't think they will light a blade very well, but could be wrong. In terms of incandescent bulbs it's as bright as a 6w lightbulb...aka a night light. A single red rebel die is as bright as a 25w bulb. A single red cree xp-e2 die is as bright as a 30w bulb. Before anyone jumps on me because LED brightness has no relation to wattage, I did the math to convert the Lumens from the LEDs to mcd (millicandela) for the incandescent bulbs, then used an old chart that I still have in my home office for light outputs.

For transistor look for a local electronics store, ham radio shop, or rc model shop; my tip42c were under $1 each.

You will also need resistors for the main LEDs, as well as a the LEDs on the switch if using a lighted switch. Determine the battery and use ohms law to determine the resistance and wattage. Double check the math here before ordering. The shop has a great selection of the primary ones you might need.

The stock wires on the board are very flimsy strand construction wires, you may want to resolder new wire from the shop on to the boards. I had several wires break simply disassembling the Ezra Bridger version, so I did it as a precaution for durability while cramming the wires into the hilt as well as for use later on.

[bigkevin61]

Well at only 80 lumen, those LEDs are 1/2 as bright as a single rebel die. 80 lumen is 20 less than the $0.88 flashlights you can get at the dollar store. I don't think they will light a blade very well, but could be wrong. In terms of incandescent bulbs it's as bright as a 6w lightbulb...aka a night light. A single red rebel die is as bright as a 25w bulb. A single red cree xp-e2 die is as bright as a 30w bulb. Before anyone jumps on me because LED brightness has no relation to wattage, I did the math to convert the Lumens from the LEDs to mcd (millicandela) for the incandescent bulbs, then used an old chart that I still have in my home office for light outputs.

Well, the LEDs Heeltoeshift linked, are the same as the ones I used.
And while I may have slightly overdriven them off a "Panasonic Li-Ion 18650 3.7V 3400mAh PCB Protected Rechargeable Battery" (for longevity), with a 5 degree lens focusing the light, it will still damage your eyes!
Indoors, under "normal" lighting, it is slightly washed-out at worse. In lower light (indoors at night, or at the move theater) it looks awesome. in broad daylight, of course it sucks (as most, non-insanely overpowered setups are).
FullSizeRender.jpgIMG_2398.jpg
With that being said, I had those cheap-o LEDs lying around, and my build was already climbing in cost, so I didn't upgrade to Rebels or Crees (as I would have wanted to upgraded the housing/heatsink solution for the higher cost LEDs).
If I ever have the $ and get bored, I'll upgrade LEDs, but the whole crossguard saber thing was more of a joke/one-off for 2 uses (a cos-play thing, and the move premier).

[bigkevin61]

Hey, I see you linked my build! THANKS!

Most of what I was going to say is in there, like "THIS IS A SHOW PIECE ONLY, NOT FOR DUELING!"

Here are my thoughts:

The Amazon Lenses come with the holders, so you don't need them both.

For heatsinks (remember, this was on the "Cheap"), search for "RAM Heatsinks", I got the 8 pack of 1/5" x 1/5" heatsinks (that come with a sticky backing for adhesion)

I tested the Copper End Cap solution for a heatsink, and I didn't care for it (remember I was building 20+ sabers!!!) It was too much to deal with, and at the end, left me hoping for a good connection between the LED Star base and a NOT perfectly flat end cap.
I am personally pleased with the "1inch thin walled blade material" solution. easy and cheap to build, just use high-temp hot glue. A set screw holds the module/assembly in place (think blade retention screw).
If you want the BEST solution for an LED assembly, use this: Heatsink module for 1in ID tubes
I used 3 of these in recent PVC Builds, and once you sand down the lens holder a smidgen, everything fits in nicely, and it solves your heatsink issue as well. (Tim has the BEST stuff!!!) I used Luxeon Rebels for those 3 Sabers (which are for 3 boys) and I wanted the extra heat dissipation, and security that things are properly held together, as despite my warnings to "take it easy" I know they are gonna beat the crap out of each other.

If you choose to go the TCSS LED Assembly/module route, I'd be inclined to tell you to spurge and get Rebels or Cree LEDs, as a few more $ now, may save you some regret at not upgrading later (and use the Lens holder and 8.5 degree Lens from TCSS as well, SO MUCH BETTER QUALITY!!). Those "Amazon" LEDs are weak compared to what is sold here.
One of the 3 builds with the "Heatsink module for 1in ID tubes" I used is a Deep Red Rebel LED, and it is SO MUCH brighter than the "Cheap-o Amazon" ones!!!

For the battery, you'll have to work within your boards limits, or get creative with bypassing the board to drive 3 LEDs. Most tutorials give solutions for ONE LED
I'm NOT qualified enough to give you help with working with an "econo board".

If you have specific questions (that shouldn't be asked in a public thread) feel free to Private Message me, I SHOULD be on the forums a bit more often this year!


*EDIT* I see you are looking at this thread: Cheapy Kylo Ren Econo Board wiring check.
This is one of the threads I'd suggest searching for!

[Heeltoeshift]

Hey, I see you linked my build! THANKS!

Most of what I was going to say is in there, like "THIS IS A SHOW PIECE ONLY, NOT FOR DUELING!"

Here are my thoughts:

The Amazon Lenses come with the holders, so you don't need them both.

For heatsinks (remember, this was on the "Cheap"), search for "RAM Heatsinks", I got the 8 pack of 1/5" x 1/5" heatsinks (that come with a sticky backing for adhesion)

I tested the Copper End Cap solution for a heatsink, and I didn't care for it (remember I was building 20+ sabers!!!) It was too much to deal with, and at the end, left me hoping for a good connection between the LED Star base and a NOT perfectly flat end cap.
I am personally pleased with the "1inch thin walled blade material" solution. easy and cheap to build, just use high-temp hot glue. A set screw holds the module/assembly in place (think blade retention screw).
If you want the BEST solution for an LED assembly, use this: Heatsink module for 1in ID tubes
I used 3 of these in recent PVC Builds, and once you sand down the lens holder a smidgen, everything fits in nicely, and it solves your heatsink issue as well. (Tim has the BEST stuff!!!) I used Luxeon Rebels for those 3 Sabers (which are for 3 boys) and I wanted the extra heat dissipation, and security that thinks are properly held together, as despite my warnings to "take it easy" I know they are gonna beat the crap out of each other.

Hi Kevin and thanks SO MUCH for your input and help!

I have really been going back and forth on whether to attempt this build or not - I need it done by March 25. That's WonderCon in LA, which is what I'm building the saber for. I think you've given me enough confidence to go ahead and try it. If nothing else, it will be a learning experience, and if it all explodes it's cheaper than some other "learning experiences" I've had... :P

I took a look at the TCSS store and was considering upgrading to Rebels or Crees - but as of today there's no Rebels, only 1 Cree red left in stock, and I need 3 :P and I need them soon. For now, I will go with the "Amazon Specials", and maybe down the line I will upgrade them. For now, I need to get the thing working, and put together so I'm not bladeless at WonderCon.

Couple Specifics:

1. I think one of the hardest parts for me will be drilling/tapping the set-screw holes. I only have a hand drill. I assume you used a drill press and tapped them after?

2. Thanks for the clarification on the RAM heatsinks. I wasn't sure if that was a brand, but I see now it is for computer RAM. I will use them.

3. You said you used "1 in. OD, thin-walled" polycarb tubing for the LED assemblies from an industrial supplies. Could you please tell me what the exact wall thickness was on this tubing? Also, do you know if this is the same thickness that the TCSS thin-wall blades are? I've been looking around local plastics suppliers catalogs and the two options I see are 1/16" and 1/8". 1/16" seems about right.


THANK YOU Kevin for your help!

[bigkevin61]

Hi Kevin and thanks SO MUCH for your input and help!

No Problem! I'm a tinkerer at heart, and it is fun for me to learn through the process, but it helps to have SOME guidance, and I'm glad to provide.

I have really been going back and forth on whether to attempt this build or not - I need it done by March 25. That's WonderCon in LA, which is what I'm building the saber for. I think you've given me enough confidence to go ahead and try it. If nothing else, it will be a learning experience, and if it all explodes it's cheaper than some other "learning experiences" I've had... :P

If I had to hazard a guess, the cost for my crossguard was as follows:
PVC for hilt = ~$35 (the pipe came in 5' lengths 1" for the body, 1.25" for the Switch and Recharge port "plates", and shipping was ~50% the cost of the order)
LED Assemblies (all parts) = ~$22 (need 3, but 10 leds, holders/lenses, 8 heatsinks, resistors, etc)
Battery and Chassis Parts = ~$25 (once again, had to order more material than needed)
Misc Screws, Covertec Clip, Set Screws = ~$15
Av Switch, Dynaohm resistor, Poulu Board, recharge port = ~$23
Blade Tube, Bullet Tips, Cellophane = ~$32
and Misc Cost of wires, solder, etc (I had on hand).
Add some additional shipping costs, and you are looking at a grand total of about $175, give or take.

Just to give you an idea. Your mileage may vary.

I took a look at the TCSS store and was considering upgrading to Rebels or Crees - but as of today there's no Rebels, only 1 Cree red left in stock, and I need 3 :P and I need them soon. For now, I will go with the "Amazon Specials", and maybe down the line I will upgrade them. For now, I need to get the thing working, and put together so I'm not bladeless at WonderCon.

I can understand, I received the parts for my son's lightsaber for Christmas 2014, on December 21st. I had to pull 3 VERY LATE nights to get the internal parts for the chassis modified, wired up, and assembled. Probably about 25 or so "bench hours" done after work, until 3 or 4am for 3 nights in a row. So NOT having to wait (and rush) is HIGHLY recommended for a "first build".
I love this shop, and Tim does a phenomenal job, but the shop is still very much a "mom & pop" organization, and waiting for parts availability is sometimes frustrating, but still well worth the wait.

Couple Specifics:

1. I think one of the hardest parts for me will be drilling/tapping the set-screw holes. I only have a hand drill. I assume you used a drill press and tapped them after?

First, You always drill a pilot hole with the provided Bit FIRST (or a bit of appropriate size, which is always SMALLER then the Tap). THEN you thread the Tap into the hole, slowly & carefully (and occasionally back a partial turn) untill the tap carves the the matching thread croves into the part. Same applies for PVC or Metal.
Seconds, Yes, I did have a "cheap" drill press available. If you get a Drill & Tap Set, working with PVC is like butter. A LOT easier than into metal hilts! If you mean "hand drill" as a corded or cordless drill (like at home depot) and NOT an old fashion literal hand crank drill, you'll be fine, Starting a hole in curved PVC is MUCH easier than curved Aluminum. I recommend clamping your PVC down before drilling. It isn't as hard as you think. Though keep in mind, constant use (screwing and unscrewing) of a set screw in PVC will eventually wear the PVC out. (but if you would plan on rarely taking the blades out, you be ok)

2. Thanks for the clarification on the RAM heatsinks. I wasn't sure if that was a brand, but I see now it is for computer RAM. I will use them.

Yup, you got it!

3. You said you used "1 in. OD, thin-walled" polycarb tubing for the LED assemblies from an industrial supplies. Could you please tell me what the exact wall thickness was on this tubing? Also, do you know if this is the same thickness that the TCSS thin-wall blades are? I've been looking around local plastics suppliers catalogs and the two options I see are 1/16" and 1/8". 1/16" seems about right.

With minor tolerance variances between manufacturer, etc, I've found 1" OD Poly-carbonate Tubing in 1/16th" wall thickness (which IS what the store and other sabersmiths refer to as "Thin Walled") and in 1/8th" wall thickness (which IS what the store and other sabersmiths refer to as "Thick Walled"). I haven't yet seen Thin & Thick NOT refer to 1/16th" and 1/8th" respectively, over several stores, sabersmiths, and forums.
As a hint, with minimum lengths, and shipping costs, it may just be easier, similar in cost (or cheaper) just to order a few lengths of tube cut to length from here. The plastics company I found only sells in 8' lengths, and I used 32" for the main blade, leaving 64" for the remaining two 6.5" side blades, and three 1.5" sections for the LED assemblies. Just a thought.

THANK YOU Kevin for your help!

No Problem! Best of Luck! If you are going to commit and try and build the saber for end of March, order the LEDs and Lens Holders NOW. They literally ship on a slow boat from china. (something like 3-8 weeks shipping? I just remember it was Quite Long, and there is no quicker shipping options for more $)

[Heeltoeshift]

No Problem! I'm a tinkerer at heart, and it is fun for me to learn through the process, but it helps to have SOME guidance, and I'm glad to provide.

It is much appreciated.

Welp, I just ordered the LEDs, lenses and holders. Here we go! I'm committed now.

After getting input from my other thread, I'll be using the red polycarb blades from TCSS. I'll be cutting it with a hacksaw and get extra to build the holders for the LED assemblies.


So, updated Parts List:

3 cheap LEDs
3 cheap Lenses+Holders
3 RAM Heatsinks
3 LED Assembly Holder thingies (made from cut sections of polycarb tube)
Battery +Holder....?
Bass Speaker
Switch
4-Wire Quick Connect
6-Wire Quick Connect
Kylo Ren BladeBuilders Soundboard
3 MOSFET Transistors from Radioshack (as I think I need one for each Blade)
Set Screws
Hilt Construction Supplies

A couple more questions I've come up with:

1. Given that you've worked with PVC, what size 8-32 set screw have you found most preferable with the PVC's wall thickness? I'm reading that the wall thickness can be between 0.280" and 0.314", and so for the bits that slide into the 4-way coupler, I would think that 1/4" would be best to ensure no protrusion... but I'd just hope that's enough threads to be secure.

2. I am so befuddled as to what battery setup to choose. I think I need to do more reading to determine this. I understand how to calculate what resistors I will need, and that the board is capable of taking 3-6ish volts. But as far as what battery pack to use, and the holder and how it charges and gets removed (don't want to do recharge port right now) I am stumped. Thought i would use this but the battery holder is out of stock, and doesn't work with the button-top batteries, although I have no idea what that is referring to. Also, most things are out of stock. Hmm...

[bigkevin61]

After getting input from my other thread, I'll be using the red polycarb blades from TCSS. I'll be cutting it with a hacksaw and get extra to build the holders for the LED assemblies.

Ok, I can see that choice.
I would suggest an e-mail to Tim at TCSS to ask him to cut all your tube (main blade, side blades) to your specified length, and ask if he has any cutoffs (doesn't have to be red) that he can sell to you (For the led assemblies).
I say this, as in having to cut my own blades out of 8' stock, it becomes difficult to manage the dust (keeping the insides of the tubes CLEAN), when you are cutting and sanding the ends smooth. A quick e-mail before you order may save you a headache later on.

A couple more questions I've come up with:

1. Given that you've worked with PVC, what size 8-32 set screw have you found most preferable with the PVC's wall thickness? I'm reading that the wall thickness can be between 0.280" and 0.314", and so for the bits that slide into the 4-way coupler, I would think that 1/4" would be best to ensure no protrusion... but I'd just hope that's enough threads to be secure.

1" Schedule 40 PVC had an 1.315" OD, with a "Average" 1.049" ID (slightly bigger than 1") with a wall thickness of ~0.133". This is slightly more than 1/8th".

I used 1/8" set screws to hold in my LED assemblies (since it will NOT protrude past the surface) as that location was within the "Cross" fitting.

With that being said, you may be able to use 3/16" set screws as well (if you are worrying about enough threads to be secure). The 1/8" set screws do sit a bit far into the wall of the PVC (as the wall itself if thicker than 1/8th, and there is "wiggle" room between the LED assembly [at 1"] and the ID of the PVC[at 1.049"]).

1/4' set screw will be way too big, unless you are going through BOTH the "Cross" fitting AND the 1" PVC.

2. I am so befuddled as to what battery setup to choose. I think I need to do more reading to determine this. I understand how to calculate what resistors I will need, and that the board is capable of taking 3-6ish volts. But as far as what battery pack to use, and the holder and how it charges and gets removed (don't want to do recharge port right now) I am stumped. Thought i would use this but the battery holder is out of stock, and doesn't work with the button-top batteries, although I have no idea what that is referring to. Also, most things are out of stock. Hmm...

That part is still beyond me! Good luck with that part!

[MikyMikeMcd]

hi how did this work out? im trying to wire the same board into my saber and i dont see how you hook up the mom switch? do you have any more pics?