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Thread: Li-Ion Battery Packs

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by cannibal869 View Post
    Most excellent work AZ!! I think it goes without saying that this should be stickied
    Quote Originally Posted by Azmaria Dei View Post
    it already has been. ^_^ thanks though.
    Yep, I Stickied it not long after she posted the initial post.

    I guess I should see about adding it to the Thread Index.
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  2. #12

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    really good tutorial Az ....lots of useful information on how to make battery packs

  3. #13

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    The Complete Spoonfeed from start to finish on making a battery pack
    By Skottsaber

    I will be demonstrating how to construct a 14500 7.4v pack.

    To start of with, you are going to need some basic tools. On the left is what you need 100%, and on the right are recommended extras.


    On the left we have heatshrink, our cells (tabbed) and a protection PCB. You will also need a hot air gun or hairdryer for heatshrinking.
    On the right is flux (makes the solder flow, there is some in your solder already but sometimes it helps to have more), sandpaper for filing the cells (don't worry if you have tabbed cells) and a glue gun for protecting the connections at the end of the cells (also useful for extra stability.)

    Also, you can just see my benchtop mini vise that I'll be using to hold the PCB and batteries during soldering.



    Here is the protection PCB, you can skip this step if you want but I always do it. See that white connector? You don't need it at all, so we're going to take it off. It is a surface mount device so you will need to have a bit of skill and a small iron tip.



    First, add solder to all the points on the connector, bridging the back 2 pins.



    Then heat up those joints while pulling on the connector and once they are all molten (you may have to hit them a few times) the connector will pull right off.



    Then just clean off the extra solder by wicking it off (recommended) or using a solder sucker.



    You should end up with something looking a bit like this comparison shot. And this is what you should have so far:



    Now we get to the actual soldering of the cells, I'm going to show you in a comic strip style and then explain.



    (NOTE: This is how I do my tabs, and not any "definitive way", follow my advice at your own risk [of being awesome ])

    On the side of the pack where you join the 2 cells (BM pad), fold one tab over the other cell. Measure where it needs to stop and cut it (you want it to fold all the way over the front of the cell). Next, Tin the top of the non-folded tab. After that, fold the tab back over and solder in place. Then tin the middle of the folded tab, and fold the (as of yet) non folded tab over and solder in place.Then solder it down on top of the cell.
    Keep up? Good.

    This is what you should have now:



    Now you need to measure and cut all your wires. Make sure that the wires coming from P+ and P- are not the same length, one needs to be longer so that they come out of the pack the same length (if you're interested in neatness like me ) Your wires are ALWAYS going to be shorter than you thought they were, so add some extra when cutting (you can always take away, but never add )
    Strip, twist, and tin all of these wires.



    Solder the BM wire (having added some more solder to the final joint you made). Pull it to test the strength of the join between the cells.

    Next, trim and tin the positive and negative terminals of the pack.



    And solder the wires in.



    You should end up with this:



    Now tin all the pads on the PCB.



    Solder on the P- and P+ wires (you don't want to do any extra soldering on top of the battery pack, it is probably safer and it will also be less crowded).



    And then solder in the wires coming from the cells themselves.



    OK that's it for tonight, I'll post the rest when I finish the pack.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    OKIDAY now for the final part!

    So after you have your PCB soldered up you'll want to quickly plug it into the charger and make sure it goes red. This also activates the PCB. Don't leave it there for too long, you don't want enough power in there to arc the wires when you continue building it.



    DO NOT SKIP THIS STEP! If you find once you've got it all heatshrunk that it doesn't charge or give power, you're going to have a much harder time fixing it than if it wasn't heatshrunk.



    Next, measure out your heatshrink. I leave a decent lip over mine that will prevent anything touching the ends of the cells, but not such a lip that will stick out of the pack more than it needs to. If you can, slide your cells into the long piece of heatshrink to "stretch it", this will help in a while.



    Cut the shrink to size, just using ordinary scissors.



    Push your pack into the heatshrink and position any wires (for instance the pack positive and negative) that need to be placed. Having "stretched" the shrink beforehand makes this step easier.
    The bit of heatshrink I have on the positive wire in this picture is just to prevent accidental shorts happening while I manipulate the pack. Take it off before you shrink the pack.

    Now all you need to do is apply hot air! A heat gun / hairdryer works well. Use high heat and low air, and at first rotate the pack around, warming up the heatshrink, and then go slowly around. Once you've finished, check for any spots where you can still push the heatshrink and go over those bits again.
    You should end up with this:



    Then just stick it in the charger again and make sure it charges. If it does you're good to go!
    Last edited by Skottsaber; 06-19-2011 at 02:01 AM.

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  4. #14

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    Great tutorial. It helped. I just picked up some of the de-soldering braid and it works wonders at mopping up solder blobs that got away from me. I'm rapidly being humbled at the art of "cram fu" on my first saber. Although I picked a 13.5 inch long hilt roughly based on the ObiWan ROTS, you run out of room surprisingly fast. I started out wanting to use a pair of 18650s. Nope. Too fat to fit side-by-side. Too long to fit anywhere as a stick. So I tried 18500s. Just short enough to fit lengthwise, but now too fat with my heatshrink to fit where I wanted. Jeeze man! So now I've conceded that I have to use "AA" size 14500s. They should fit side-by-side nicely with a little wiggle room and no pinched wires. What's the average battery life for a 7.4v 14500 pack on a Petit Crouton saber with everything except a rumble motor activated? Assuming I'm running a Luxeon Rebel Star blue at 1000mA.
    "So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life." -- Genesis 3:24 Lightsabers are real.

  5. #15

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    If you are willing to put fourth the effort 18650s side by side with the protection pcb, and a PC, and more, can be done.

    eg. http://forums.thecustomsabershop.com...s-Praxis-Saber
    Last edited by Sunrider; 06-17-2011 at 09:43 PM.

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by tachikoma1 View Post
    Great tutorial. It helped. I just picked up some of the de-soldering braid and it works wonders at mopping up solder blobs that got away from me. I'm rapidly being humbled at the art of "cram fu" on my first saber. Although I picked a 13.5 inch long hilt roughly based on the ObiWan ROTS, you run out of room surprisingly fast. I started out wanting to use a pair of 18650s. Nope. Too fat to fit side-by-side. Too long to fit anywhere as a stick. So I tried 18500s. Just short enough to fit lengthwise, but now too fat with my heatshrink to fit where I wanted. Jeeze man! So now I've conceded that I have to use "AA" size 14500s. They should fit side-by-side nicely with a little wiggle room and no pinched wires. What's the average battery life for a 7.4v 14500 pack on a Petit Crouton saber with everything except a rumble motor activated? Assuming I'm running a Luxeon Rebel Star blue at 1000mA.
    With alot of Cram-Fu you can fit 2 18650's in an MHS Obi Wan build.
    http://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/index.php?topic=25662.0
    I still don't have pics of the internals but I am am getting ready to update this saber and I'll take some
    new pics to show how I fit everything in there. Darth Real-Life is kicking my butt at the moment.

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  7. #17

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    Two 18650s side by side measure 1.45", the largest inside diameter in my hilt is 1.25". I'd be very interested in learning how this can be done. Specifically, I have a DF4GR (4-inch grooved with "Mara Jade" screw holes) piece followed by a ribbed/choke combo piece. In the back I have a pommel style 10 with a MHS Gear piece. My PC chassis/sled goes in the rear half of the main body. an AV, aux switch and charge port take up the front half of that piece. So my battery pack has to fit entirely in the ribbed/choke combo. The 18mm batts can barely fit in the narrow choke piece, but with the wires from the Luxeon combined with wires and heat shrink on the battery pack, it don't work. So an end-to-end battery "stick" is not going to fit. I see the "praxis" saber somehow has 2 18650s side by side in the same DF4GR piece. But it looks like he reamed out some material inside to make it fit. I'm afraid that is beyond my skills at this time.

    Edit: I do have the option of using 30 gauge wire for the Luxeon and battery pack. If I do that it "might" fit. But I was concerned with the amount of current going through those tiny (single strand) wires. Any input on this idea?
    Last edited by tachikoma1; 06-18-2011 at 11:12 AM.
    "So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life." -- Genesis 3:24 Lightsabers are real.

  8. #18
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    It takes some grinding and sanding. Look at the links that others have presented to you.

  9. #19
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    i don't recommend using solid wire - always use stranded for the better current handling ability.
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  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azmaria Dei View Post
    i don't recommend using solid wire - always use stranded for the better current handling ability.
    My thoughts exactly. The "official" max current for 30 gauge wire for "wiring chassis" is 860mA. I'm planning on driving my LED to 1000mA or higher. That's how model rocket igniters work. A small gauge wire with a 1 or 2 amp current gets red hot. Hot enough to flare a bit of phosphorous material and ignite your solid rocket motor. I don't think I want that right next to Li-ion batteries in my hand. I think I'll stick to my 14500 battery pack idea. Grinding and sanding to make batteries fit, I think is too ambitious for me right now. I don't have the tools nor the skills to do that without ruining the piece. I''ve already ruined one DF4GR trying to figure out my internal chassis and waiting (impatiently) for a replacement from Tim.
    Last edited by tachikoma1; 06-18-2011 at 01:09 PM.
    "So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life." -- Genesis 3:24 Lightsabers are real.

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