Purple RGBA blade

[DJMoonbass]

So, you are going to wire the LED directly to a battery or batteries that puts out 5A? Hmmm...seems ill advised. @Bianchi, use a driver

well Allaerra...ill be honest here. i take this rather offensive because i have done alot of work with 10 watt LEDs that all you guys dont know about. you are putting it rather harshly that i am wrong and dont know what the hell im doing and that you are right. thats what im seeing and just trying to point it out. and this wouldnt be the first time to. anyway the LED will draw what current it needs and no more as far as what i have been told. if you want to argue with my DC electronics engineering professor at CCC and my best friends dad that has graduated OIT with an electronics engineering degree and have both studied this area of expertise for decades and mastered and it and say that they are wrong. go ahead. yes i know you make the "oppression stopping purplelicious purple" but there are lots of ways of doing things then the OSPP way. granted some may be better. yes. a driver would help regulate current and voltage and drive the LED the smoothest. but then thats almost another 30-70 bucks depending on how you want to do it when its not entirely necessary. like i said there are many ways to do things. you could hook up the blue on one circuit, resistor the red on another, keep the voltage needed low and let the high capacity battery do its job. or you could use 14500s, wire them in series, have high voltage, an operating current of 700ma and a current drain rate at 1400 mah. ive measured and timed. i get very close to a half hour when i have two dies in series going on a 10 watt green with 14500s. and i get around an hour on a standard 1 die 5 watt green. its the difference of having one die vs 2. however i get about 2 hours when running two dies in parrallel with an 18650. i have done alot of work on 10 watt LEDs. done alot of small projects including upgrading car headlights (not exactly legal as i have told my friends), modding computers, interior and exterior automotive lighting (show purposes), custom DJ lighting, sabers, etc. and i dont post my tests and what not here for this exact reason. because people will flat out deny whats in front of there face and flame me for it. so i would appreciate it if people would stop saying i don't know what im doing and i dont know my electrical properties. i know alot more then people give me credit for.

[FenderBender]

well Allaerra...ill be honest here. i take this rather offensive because i have done alot of work with 10 watt LEDs that all you guys dont know about. you are putting it rather harshly that i am wrong and dont know what the hell im doing and that you are right. thats what im seeing and just trying to point it out. and this wouldnt be the first time to. anyway the LED will draw what current it needs and no more as far as what i have been told. if you want to argue with my DC electronics engineering professor at CCC and my best friends dad that has graduated OIT with an electronics engineering degree and have both studied this area of expertise for decades and mastered and it and say that they are wrong. go ahead. yes i know you make the "oppression stopping purplelicious purple" but there are lots of ways of doing things then the OSPP way. granted some may be better. yes. a driver would help regulate current and voltage and drive the LED the smoothest. but then thats almost another 30-70 bucks depending on how you want to do it when its not entirely necessary. like i said there are many ways to do things. you could hook up the blue on one circuit, resistor the red on another, keep the voltage needed low and let the high capacity battery do its job. or you could use 14500s, wire them in series, have high voltage, an operating current of 700ma and a current drain rate at 1400 mah. ive measured and timed. i get very close to a half hour when i have two dies in series going on a 10 watt green with 14500s. and i get around an hour on a standard 1 die 5 watt green. its the difference of having one die vs 2. however i get about 2 hours when running two dies in parrallel with an 18650. i have done alot of work on 10 watt LEDs. done alot of small projects including upgrading car headlights (not exactly legal as i have told my friends), modding computers, interior and exterior automotive lighting (show purposes), custom DJ lighting, sabers, etc. and i dont post my tests and what not here for this exact reason. because people will flat out deny whats in front of there face and flame me for it. so i would appreciate it if people would stop saying i don't know what im doing and i dont know my electrical properties. i know alot more then people give me credit for.

Wow, here we were thinking you had grown a little and then I come in here and see half a page of butthurtz

No one, especially us, has ever said that OSPP is the ONLY way to do purple. Purple is a subjective color, and the shade that you like maybe different than what someone else likes. But, that's neither here nor there as we weren't talking about color mixing. We were talking about PROPER WIRING TECHNIQUES. There is a right way, a wrong way, and a just plain WTFWYT way. You can probably build an electric car with a 12V battery, on/off switch and electric motor too, but you don't see anyone doing it because it's inefficient, risky and stupid.

Yes, there are many ways to hook up a multi-die LED to maximize it's potential and/or work with the power source that you have available. No one is debating that there is more than one way to achieve a desired result.

Your post is a great example of why a lot of "Olde Guarde" members no longer post here. Anytime someone offers a correction of wrong information, or posts a technique that may look hard, or unnecessarily "safe" someone like you comes in and craps on it with the "well I've done blah blah, and my dad's cousin's sister's room mate that graduated with a BS in BS said blah blah blah" Look, I don't care about what you heard from some third party, they're not HERE in OUR hobby giving EE advice to new people. You are, and your advice was WRONG. Plain and simple. I have a teacher too, and that teacher is Erv', and I trust what he tells me because you know what? He actually knows what he's doing, is involved in OUR hobby and is kind enough to teach those who are wise enough to close their mouths and use their ears (figuratively of course, we're in text after all). So when someone like Erv' says "direct driving an LED without a resistor or driver is BAD unless under certain circumstances" I listen, then I find out why.

You have experience, yes, lets see: You were the one that purposely stared directly into a 10W green LEDengin yes? Oh, and you were the one that over powered (again, no resistor) some accent LEDs so bad they changed color yes? Oh and lets not forget about the battery pack you DRILLED through and almost exploded. So yes, you have had some experiences that I haven't, I'll give you that. And maybe you do know more about those things than I do. But, when I or another experienced member here takes the time to correct misinformation, and to help new people, it is the WISE and MATURE thing to do to listen to them and maybe I dunno, ask WHY if you're not sure or think you know better. Constantly spouting off about some mysterious third party that teaches you this and that and that you know better is what gets you in hot water around here.

Look, plain and simple: LEDs (among other components) are like some dogs, they will consume until they throw up and die. Giving an led that will pop at 2A access to 5A+ is bad. We're not talking about capacity, we're talking about discharge rates and current. An 18650's capacity of 2600mah has nothing to do with anything, it has to do with that battery's ability to discharge 5A+. An alkaline AAA can only discharge about 900ma+/-, that has nothing to do with it's capacity. Would you take a 3V alkaline pack and hook it direct up to a 5mm LED even if that LED has a 3V rating? I hope not, cause most of them are only rated at 25-30ma. That's essentially what you just told someone, so you need to think about things, learn LOTS more than you think you know, and be careful when giving your "teacher's" advice out here.

[lectricpharaoh]

well Allaerra...ill be honest here. i take this rather offensive because i have done alot of work with 10 watt LEDs that all you guys dont know about.

I'm pretty new around here, but not in forums in general, and it seems to me like you're taking offense where none was intended. Just because someone doesn't agree with you and gives different advice is no reason to get your undies in a knot.

you are putting it rather harshly that i am wrong and dont know what the hell im doing and that you are right.

Unless Allaerra originally had something nasty in there, and went back in to edit the post before I read it, there's nothing 'harsh' in there at all.

yes. a driver would help regulate current and voltage and drive the LED the smoothest. but then thats almost another 30-70 bucks depending on how you want to do it when its not entirely necessary.

If you pay ~$30 (plus shipping, unless you can find these at brick-and-mortar retailers!) for one of these LEDs and fry it, that's entirely unnecessary as well. Besides, if you're paying $30-70 for a driver (shipping isn't part of the marginal cost if you buy it at the same time as your LED), then you're getting ripped off. I generally see them for around $15-20, tops. The selectable-output driver that Tim sells is the exception here, not the rule.

like i said there are many ways to do things. you could hook up the blue on one circuit, resistor the red on another, keep the voltage needed low and let the high capacity battery do its job. or you could use 14500s, wire them in series, have high voltage, an operating current of 700ma and a current drain rate at 1400 mah.

Okay, I laughed on reading this. I am a total newbie when it comes to electronics, but my understanding of Ohm's Law is that when you increase your supply voltage, increased current will flow. If you wire two Li-ion batteries up in series, have a nominal voltage of 7.4V and run that straight to your LED (without a driver, as you suggest), the LED is likely to get very bright, and then get very (read: completely) dim, permanently. Plugging in a resistor to cope with the extra power supplied by the second battery is a waste, too, because all that extra power will be dissipated as heat. It seems to me you'd get identical run-time by using a single battery and a much smaller resistor, but I'd still prefer the driver because a) it's less likely to fry the LED, and b) it will increase your battery life (PWM being much more efficient than wasting excess power as heat).

so i would appreciate it if people would stop saying i don't know what im doing and i dont know my electrical properties. i know alot more then people give me credit for.

I didn't see anyone say that in this thread until after your rant and Fender's response. I'd be inclined to listen to him over you, and you know why? It's not because of his examples of your alleged bad experiences. Rather, it's because Tim sells protection circuits for Li-ion batteries. One of the features of that circuit is to stop the battery from discharging more than 8.5A. Do you think many sabre makers are in the habit of needing more than 8.5A for their setups, or do you think that maybe, just maybe, the LED will draw whatever it can get, even if that makes it go 'pop'?

I also tend to listen more to someone who makes an effort to use punctuation and capitalization in their posts. I'm not a grammar Nazi or anything, but making no effort makes one seem intellectually lazy, and by extension, less credible. Hint: the 'shift' key on your keyboard will allow you to use uppercase letters (such as for starting sentences and using the pronoun 'I'), and contractions generally have an apostrophe in them.

[Allaerra Secura]

Actually, you're not underdriving the LED (when you're getting purple.) Each channel is supposed to be at 700mA maximum. This runs blue at 700mA (Maximum) and red at 350mA (half power). Yes, the red is being underdriven, but if you allow them both to run at full, you get a very pinkish hue.

This is just absolutely incorrect. If you are going to post misinformation and then you are going to stubbornly maintain your position, that is unfortunate. You can find the information on these LEDs on the LEDEngin website. Bofore I personally comment on something, I make sure to check my facts first. We have done extensive research on these LEDs, possibly more than anyone else in our industry. Even so, I still refer to the LEDEngin website frequently and have even had conversations personally with LEDEngin. If you check the product data sheets you will find that 700ma is the minimum value for these LEDs, anything less is underdriving. However, they prefer at least 1A and preferably more if you want a nice bright shade. As far as allowing both to run at full giving a very pinkish hue, again it depends. The RGBA with both dice run in series at 1.1A-1.3A gives a respectable purple, the RGBW run in series at 1.1-1.3A is more pinkish than is acceptable to me. In that case, it makes more sense to run both in parallel so that you can resist the red. However, in no event would you ever reduce it below 700ma because it is just totally unnecessary to do so. Why sacrifice brightness and underdrive the LED for no reason? These things cost $30. You can get a 3W RGB LED for a fraction of that, overdrive it, and get a purple that appears at least as bright to the eyes as your 700ma/350ma solution.

@DJ, what Fender said.

[Invisas1979]

I also tend to listen more to someone who makes an effort to use punctuation and capitalization in their posts. I'm not a grammar Nazi or anything, but making no effort makes one seem intellectually lazy, and by extension, less credible. Hint: the 'shift' key on your keyboard will allow you to use uppercase letters (such as for starting sentences and using the pronoun 'I'), and contractions generally have an apostrophe in them.

This isn't a jump on DJ moment, lectricpharaoh.

Some people learn by making mistakes and this seems to be a trait of DJ's but at least he tries and shares. However misguided it may seem.

DJ, you gotta stop taking things to heart, just because you can do something doesn't mean you should or that it's the right way to go about it. Chill dude it's these flare ups that make people discredit you.

Fender, you've every right to be annoyed with DJ's reaction to Allaerra's post but highlighting his mistakes is a low blow, and a blow a bit below your level. Every mistake you listed i'd already read (as others will have) bringing it up again to make a point was un-necessary. Your knowledge and explanation of things was more than enough to make your point. IMO.

[FenderBender]

Some people learn by making mistakes and this seems to be a trait of DJ's but at least he tries and shares. However misguided it may seem.


Fender, you've every right to be annoyed with DJ's reaction to Allaerra's post but highlighting his mistakes is a low blow, and a blow a bit below your level. Every mistake you listed i'd already read (as others will have) bringing it up again to make a point was un-necessary. Your knowledge and explanation of things was more than enough to make your point. IMO.

Low blow? Hmm.....maybe, but I am human (shocking I know). Look, DJ has had a sordid past here on the forums for those very same kinds of outbursts. He is also guilty of proliferating misinformation, on several occasions. The blustery boasts and "My dads friend the so and so" things are old now. He's had his second chances, growing room, and his credit has expired. I have for the most part left him alone, or tried to be counsel for him when he's done stupid things.

This forum is for DIYers, and a lot of new blood is here. The last thing the community needs is the new people getting disgusted because they read something that wasn't correct, assumed it was true and wasted money because it didn't work or worse got hurt or damaged something because of it. There are LOADS of stickied threads on the basics of wiring. Lots of build logs and threads from the old guys here detailing and pioneering the constantly changing tech in this hobby. There is a never ending process of learning, even for us. I learn something valuable about this industry everyday. But to scoff at the basics and the fundamentals and then cry foul is wrong, and I won't apologize for calling it out.

[Invisas1979]

Low blow? Hmm.....maybe, but I am human (shocking I know). Look, DJ has had a sordid past here on the forums for those very same kinds of outbursts. He is also guilty of proliferating misinformation, on several occasions. The blustery boasts and "My dads friend the so and so" things are old now. He's had his second chances, growing room, and his credit has expired. I have for the most part left him alone, or tried to be counsel for him when he's done stupid things.

This forum is for DIYers, and a lot of new blood is here. The last thing the community needs is the new people getting disgusted because they read something that wasn't correct, assumed it was true and wasted money because it didn't work or worse got hurt or damaged something because of it. There are LOADS of stickied threads on the basics of wiring. Lots of build logs and threads from the old guys here detailing and pioneering the constantly changing tech in this hobby. There is a never ending process of learning, even for us. I learn something valuable about this industry everyday. But to scoff at the basics and the fundamentals and then cry foul is wrong, and I won't apologize for calling it out.

I know but I've been corrected enough times without being made to look like a idiot (it does help I'm graceful in defeat... lol).

No one is asking you to apologise, you've called me out on mis-information too, but you didn't highlight my other faults as proof I was wrong, that was all I was saying.

We've utterly de-railed this thread maybe we should give the man his options and maybe a little direction.

[Bianchi]

Wow, that spawned a lot of disagreement. o_o

Let me just ask a final question, then: If I wire the red and blue dice in parallel, each with a 1000 mA puck (and the red one with a 3.3 ohm resistor too), no driver, and use two Li-Ions* as a power source, will it be safe? Safe being not burning up while maintaining decent quality colour and luminosity.

*directly wired in series, as J-Lo mentioned in her post in this thread.

[FenderBender]

I know but I've been corrected enough times without being made to look like a idiot (it does help I'm graceful in defeat... lol).

No one is asking you to apologise, you've called me out on mis-information too, but you didn't highlight my other faults as proof I was wrong, that was all I was saying.

We've utterly de-railed this thread maybe we should give the man his options and maybe a little direction.

If I called you out, I hope you didn't think that I was rude, and really was just trying to help. I don't remember doing so, so if you were wrong about something then obviously you were graceful with accepting correction cause I don't remember it

I was reacting to DJ's armed attack at my wife and partner. She was the one correcting him, and wasn't rude by any means in doing so. He responded in his typical blustery, fly-off-the-handle manner and I've had it with that crap. There's no place for it here. This also isn't the first, second, third or even fourth time that this has occurred with him. He was even given a vacation from the forums for this behavior. A lot of people that care about this hobby, this forum, and the future of both are tired of being attacked for helping. So yes, I hit below the belt. Boohoo, either grow up and take it like a man and do some reading, or go away. When I take the gloves off, it isn't so that I can slap someone with the gloves

@Bianchi

Sorry for being part of a major thread derail. Depending on what your desires for purple are you should do the following:

If you are okay with any shade of purple you get do this:

Wire the R and B dice in series (source+>red+, red->blue+, blue->source negative) Use a 7.4V Li-Ion pack with a 1A buck puck (just one) 10Degree lens and a good blade with poly p in it. BAM! purple.

If you want a particular shade of purple THEN you will need to invest in some equipment if you don't already have it:

A multimeter. A 1W 250-500ohm potentiometer.

This is where you would need 2 pucks. Wire them in parallel so that basically you are getting 2A. You will definitely need 18650 size Li-Ion cells wired in series for 7.4V (the pucks need a minimum of 5V to function so 1 Cell wont work) Hook the red and blue dice up separately (parallel, each dice + to +, - to -) Hook the potentiometer in line with the red die's +. Turn the pot's dial all the way up (most resistance) turn on power. Dial in the shade of purple that you want. De solder the pot, and measure it with your multimeter. This is the resistance value that you need. Order the resistor from mouser, make sure you get a 1 watt or better ( I would recommend a 2W to be safe). Note: All meters have a little bit of "slop" in their measurement. The way you account for this is to set it to measure resistance and touch the probes together. You will get a reading ( I get a 6) This is your "slop". Whatever your pot reads for a value on your meter, subtract your "slop" number to get an accurate value.

*puts away spoon*

Class dismissed.

[Shadar Al'Niende]

I was reacting to DJ's armed attack at my wife and partner. She was the one correcting him, and wasn't rude by any means in doing so. He responded in his typical blustery, fly-off-the-handle manner and I've had it with that crap.

I would have re-acted the same way had someone posted something like that to MY wife.. that being said, i know DJ is just trying to help. But Fender is right. He needs to learn to either A. Chill a little and think before reacting in such a manner, or B. Deal with the backlash... (which he seems to be doing since I have yet to see a post with him freaking out even more)

I have no doubt that DJ's posts were well intentioned and he has contributed to this hobby no doubt. But he needs to show how mature he can be and know when to take things to PM and not publicly do this to himself. I say Fender was right in his response. I did not see any overly painful or rude comments that were not "asked for"

Just my $.02 [/derail]