Help with first build - Crystal Focus 8

Hey guys so, i am building my first saber. I was originally planning on using the petit crouton, but i ended up getting enough extra money that i went ahead and bought the new CF V8. The only problem is, the manual only shows single led wiring, or wiring that may not be what i want. So i was wondering if i could get some help on how to wire it, and then what resistors to use.

My build so far

Crystal Focus 8
RGrB Cree XP-E2 Copper Nova
Rice port
Recharge Port
7.4v Li-ion 1400mAh 18500 Battery Pack
2 16mm Anti-Vandal Blue Momentary Switches
Premium 28mm Speaker

I also want to maybe do a crystal chamber.

What i want
Full color mixing
FOC
Main Blade color to be Arctic Blue

The manual also describes multiple ways to do multi-LED wiring, so check out those pages for details ;)

yeah, but it has two dies going to foc, and the main die as the red one, will that still give full color mixing

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ambrosius Malachai

yeah, but it has two dies going to foc, and the main die as the red one, will that still give full color mixing

---

Yes, if you read over the manual (again) each channel that a LED is wired to will allow you to control that particular color, giving you the ability to mix colors. I strongly recommend that you read through the manual a few times to get a good feel for the board, and its abilities.

so then does that mean i have to wire it exactly as shown, with red as the main color, or do i then tell the board what color is wired where, using rice?

Yes. The board doesn't exactly care what colour is where, but the RICE editor needs to know in order to allow you to adjust the settings more conveniently.

okay so i have read through the manual again, and it is saying that not only will it not have great color mixing, but that for the foc and using the other dice channels, that i should keep the current at max of 1500 and adjust the 2512 resistor instead. Now i have NO experience with this stuff. No electronics hardware experience. So does what its saying mean that i have to basically limit my dice using resistors in order to get the color i want? or is the 2512 resistor an on-board resistor in which i can regulate in RICE? - It is also says that for color mixing, to define the color of the two additional channels, to adjust only the external resistors. Everything here sounds like i wont be able to plug my blade into RICE and change the color, from say blue, to red, or purple. That i will literally just have to pick one color, and can fine tune it slightly by adjusting the current from 1300-1500.

I think you need to read and study the manual more. And check out some YouTube videos of sabers using the CF. the 1500mA is per channel wire each channel to a different die (rgb or rgbw) and you can mix any color an lcd tv can replicate. Using either onboard pex or additional cex.

See replies below in RED

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ambrosius Malachai

okay so i have read through the manual again, and it is saying that not only will it not have great color mixing, The color mixing will be pretty good but that for the foc and using the other dice channels, that i should keep the current at max of 1500 and adjust the 2512 resistor instead. The Main LEDs are rated to run at 1000ma (1A), THAT is why you need the resistor. And the type of resistor (2512 vs. external) will depend on which battery pack you have. Now i have NO experience with this stuff. No electronics hardware experience. So does what its saying mean that i have to basically limit my dice using resistors in order to get the color i want? In a way, yes, because if you feed too much voltage/current though the LEDs they could just pop, and then you would need to replace them. or is the 2512 resistor an on-board resistor in which i can regulate in RICE? No, you adjust what is being fed THROUGH the resistor - It is also says that for color mixing, to define the color of the two additional channels, to adjust only the external resistors. Everything here sounds like i wont be able to plug my blade into RICE and change the color, from say blue, to red, or purple. Incorrect That i will literally just have to pick one color, and can fine tune it slightly by adjusting the current from 1300-1500. Color mixing works like that, you pick the color you want and adjut the two colors you are mixing to get what you want (a particular shade of purple.

---

okay so i already know that the resistors are to limit the current going to the dice in order to stop them from getting more power than they can handle. Now to figure out how to apply what you said - The main led's are rated for 1000ma. But the board puts out 1500ma to each die? that seems like a big flaw that could have been completely erased simply by only having each output on the board having a max of 1000ma. Then the other part. The 2512 vs external -- So then is the built in 2512 capable of compensating on its own? do i adjust it in rice before firing it up for the first time, in order to set its parameters? - OR is it set at a specific parameter, and using a small 3.7v Battery would then not induce an overwhelming current to the dice, but using a 7.4v would then require external resistors? I know people keep saying read the manual, but the manual does NOT have all the info needed. It has the info on how to run the card - IF you already know all this technical info - which i do not. Sorry for all the questions but i just want to make sure i know EXACTLY what im doing beforehand so i dont potentially destroy a $150 sound card

It is not a flaw. As you previously pointed out, you have no experience with "this stuff" or Hardware experience, so you might want to refrain from critiquing things you admittedly know little about.

IF you are using a 7.4V battery solution, then yes, you most likely will be needing external resistors, as they will need to be fairly large to work properly. On the other hand IF you will be using a 3.7V battery solution, and doing the required hack on the CF board, then you should be able to get by with the 2512 SMD resistors.

Once you have the appropriate resistors in place, the rest can be "controlled" either by using RICE or manually editing the contents of the SD card.

The manual does make sense and does have the info you seek, you just don't really understand it.... yet. A CF is not an ideal card for beginners to start out in.

I second FJK on the manual. It explains the function and configuration of the board, and gives basic examples of how to implement its use. As a tool to plan your own solutions it is a good tool once you study and I mean study it like a textbook. What it is not is an instruction manual, as it does not give you a a step by step wire it like this spoon feeding. Nor should it as it is more of a professional board setup for complex wiring and lighting setups.

i may not know electronics, but i know physics and common sense. if it isnt a flaw, then why does it give out 500ma more power than any die can handle? why intentionally give enough power to break something, which then requires you to get external components for no apparent reason? if the board was just set to only have max output of 1000ma, then there would be no need for resistors. it would basically be plug and play, and from what ive read and everyone has said, having the max output as 1000ma instead of 1500ma. and not needing resistors would not effect anything. If the onboard 2512 is what adjusts current, and not an external resistor - then there would be no need to create a board that gives current exceeding any die's power capabilities. If you say its not a flaw, then explain how its not. Because setting the current in rice from 1300ma-1500ma just to then have an external resistor limit it back down to 1000ma anyways, means there was no need to give that 1500ma in the first place.

The drive parameter for non current-regulated channels is not expressed in milliamps. It is expressed as a fraction of "full power" from the battery (using PWM). That is why you need a resistor. If you want regulated channels, use the Color Extender satellite board.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ambrosius Malachai

i may not know electronics, but i know physics and common sense. if it isnt a flaw, then why does it give out 500ma more power than any die can handle? why intentionally give enough power to break something, which then requires you to get external components for no apparent reason? if the board was just set to only have max output of 1000ma, then there would be no need for resistors. it would basically be plug and play, and from what ive read and everyone has said, having the max output as 1000ma instead of 1500ma. and not needing resistors would not effect anything. If the onboard 2512 is what adjusts current, and not an external resistor - then there would be no need to create a board that gives current exceeding any die's power capabilities. If you say its not a flaw, then explain how its not. Because setting the current in rice from 1300ma-1500ma just to then have an external resistor limit it back down to 1000ma anyways, means there was no need to give that 1500ma in the first place.

---

Some of "us" have need of "more power". I'm not going to sit and justify anything to you - it is what it is, and unless you are an Electrical Engineer (I highly doubt it, based on your previous statements) that knows THAT much better than the one who created this board, its related accessories and ALL of its predecessors, I strongly recommend you quit this line of "reasoning".

I never said the onboard 2512 is what adjusts current - it's just a resistor, just that it will help set the "max" that you send out to the LED when using the Pseudo mixing "mode". Once you have "the ceiling" set, you can go under it to mix colors.

i have no idea what drive parameter for non current regulated channels is, or what regulated channels are. If you would please explain

You take what im saying as an insult. I am not saying you are incorrect. The human brain is completely incapable of "new" ideas. It can only combine what it already knows. Every advancement of humanity was simply a "do and see what happens" or an accident. So without explaining yourself, i cant know it. And without knowing it, all i have to go on is what i already know - which is why have more power sent out then what is needed? - This line of reasoning is the most direct line of reasoning, and the purest. address the problem, and why it appears to not make any sense - no beating around the bush. All you had to do was spend 1-2 sentences explaining why it gives out 500ma more power than any led uses, and it would have directly addressed the issue as to why it was designed that way.

Maybe the extra current is needed to drive the CeX board when wired for color mixing, or it is providing for future LEDs that may require more current. Some are in the works if suitable cooling and heat transfer can be refined. Or it could be that that was the limits of the standard components and to have proprietary electrical components manufactured was too cost prohibitive. Using resistors to set a ceiling is very common practice because of the latter.

The extra current is there for people to use more than one led on a given channel, or to use led''s that actually use more than 1000ma.

FJK is correct on this one.

Where people are mistaken is that the board doesn't put out 1500mA. The amount of current put out by the second and third channels (with NO CEx) is dictated by the voltage of the battery and the resistance in the circuit.

well anyways, i went and used the formula the manual gives for calculating resistors - and i also used an online led resistor calculator - and got different answers. the manual says; R = (Vpack – Vf die) / FoC current ---my tri cree rblue diode runs 3.41v @ 1000ma/1A ----- my battery is a 7.4v 1400mAH ------ so that should be R=(7.4-3.41)/1 ---so----- R=3.99 - yet the online calculator says 4.7ohms 4.7watt resistor. Which is correct? and then the lowest i can find on TCSS is ??ohm at 5 watts.

The math gives you the actual values, the calculators round up to the nearest readily available resistor values, if attached to a store the calculator will round up to the nearest available resistor. Some will work in up or a 60% safety rating.

Your math is correct; however, finding a resistor to your exact calculation Is not always possible. Therefore, you round up to the nearest common resistor value. This is what the calculators do automatically. Although, sometimes the calculators tend to round up a bit high.

so then would it be safe to use the 3.9ohm 5w resistor in TCSS? Also, what is with the wattage of resistors? is the 5w just like a max rating? or will using a resistor with higher wattage like say a 10w resistor, diminish the led's brightness?

Ohm refers to the resistance Wattage is the rating of heat it can dissipate. Higher wattage has no effect on the LEDs brightness but does play a significant roll in the size of the resistor. The math gives you the minimum numbers you will need. Round up not down.

alright one other thing. in the color mixing without the Cex part, as well as the converting for single cell use - it states that converting it for single cell use allows for direct drive (pseudo color mixing) - Does this mean i will only be able to do RGrB color mixing after i convert the board to single cell use? or can i still have full color mixing, without the Cex, and using a double cell like the one i already have, i.e. 7.4v 1400mAH 18500

It is possible to do pseudo colour mixing using a 7.4V power supply as well. The only prominent disadvantage is that you will probably have to use external resistors because SMD resistors won't have a high enough wattage rating.

yeah, thats what the last few comments were about - is figuring what resistors to use. See it doesnt say that in the manual. It just says about doing it with a single cell, and doenst specify if it is possible to still do it with a dual cell and no Cex.

okay so i just test wired my led, and it wasnt as bright as i had expected. there was a huge dead spot in the blade. So, let me ask this: to test it, i wired the green and rblue of my RGrB, up to the battery. I connected both led (-) to the battery (-), and both (+) to the battery (+) using a 4.7ohm resistor. So does the fact that both led's were wired up to the same 7.4v source with a resistor that is higher than necessary for the green led - mean that they were both being under driven? like was the voltage split between them, or was it just both equally 7.4v - 4.7ohms?

Theoretically both were equally resistored equally. Though I would heavily caution using a single resistor for multiple Dice unless they are the same color, manufacture, and "POT"...basically identical dice from the exact same production run. Otherwise you risk a fatal (to the LEDs) runaway condition.

Hey, You seem super knowledgable about the CF8 I have a stupid question , if im wiring up a tri cree no FoC no none of that for a 3.7V power supply do i need resistors? and if so blu blu white.is 22 5w acceptable??

You always need resistors on your LED's...to prevent from blowing them...power spikes happen in everything. Even if the sound board has Direct Drive protection....its best to be safe then sorry. :)