A flat Blade idea...

Hello all,

I am new here and happen to come across this site in my wonderings over the net. I am in the process of gathering info on some ideas that I am kicking around and one of them is this:

Using a polycarb blade (thick-walled) and heating it up to the point that I can shape it into a katana styled blade. Now granted I will have one end still round to be able to fit into a hilt that will be housing a Luxeon and possible sound as well. Though this will be more of a Katana styled design hilt.

Has anyone done this before or are there some links for this idea? I tried the search and came up with nothing that really fit the bill.

Any feedback is welcomed on this idea or something that is along this line of a idea.!!!!

TIA guys
-D

I dont tihgnk it will work out the way you think it will..

1.) being a katana.. does the blade curve a bit as well? (ie: not straight)

how will you get the full length of the blade to light up? (light goes straight).


2.) if its a 'flat/rectangle' blade..how are you gonna get any type of diffusion in there?

(the above would also affect this)

1) It doesn't have to curve, this isn't going to be a dead nuts knock off of a real one. I would like to make it seem that way but it doesn't have to overall.

2) To light up the full length I would use the film or maybe get a frosted/white polycarb tube and maybe even to get enough light if needed use this guy's means to overkill a saber for light...

http://www.instructables.com/id/SK60LTWG0AMJ2LT/

This page is what got me to this site and some of its wonderful info.

An idea to gain the look I am after is to have a metal rod/tube at the end of the area of the polycarb tube that is going into the hilt, so that it still is round. I will then heat up the polycarb tube and more or less collapse the tube unto it's self and fuse the end that is open into a point of some degree.

Its an idea, I am looking and doing my homework before I go and waste money on something that could be a flawed design to start with.

Is there still going to be some hollowness inside? That would help with getting the light through the blade, and may also allow you to put diffuser material in there.

Other than that, it's an interesting idea, to be sure.

Hopeful yes, there would be some hollowness within the blade to allow light to be diffused to spread the full length of the blade.

Thanks so far for the feed back!

I'd like to know how you plan to heat up a polycarbonate tube evenly so that you can flatten it.

Give me about two weeks and we can see if my idea will work. Holiday shipping is not the best, and I am going to see if there is a local company that carries the tubes near me.

Im also unsure as to how you are going to get a GGG from xwing.. (as far as I know he is NOT selling them anymore)

if thats what you meant for getting a 'really bright blade'..

If you are going to flatten the tube, be sure you flatten it while it is inside the blade holder. Otherwise it will never fit. I share the opinions of the others though, this isn't a great idea. If you flatten the tube you will reduce the volume of the empty space inside the blade, and as I explained in another post the empty space is largely responsible for brightness and evenness of the light. Furthermore, any portion of the blade that extends out past the opening in the blade holder will receive very little light, especially near the emitter. This will result in a blade that appears to have a slightly fan-shaped blade, and the "sharpened edge" will be very dim if not completely unlit. You're also never really going to get a "flat" blade this way, and once the thing is illuminated any flatness you do achieve will be concealed by light. If you still want to try it then I encourage you to go for it, but it's not going to give you a result that you will be proud of.

On a related note, I wonder why Erikthehack never posted his results on the black blade thread.

Ok. Thank you for all of the info and feedback from everyone! I seem to be against a rock and a brick with this idea then.

With the feedback from everyone saying that this will not work out very well, has someone done this?
I mean I am just doing my homework here and yes I understand the consensus is that it will not work, but has someone done this and ended with negative results or poor quality of a design?

Thanks again!!

I say give it a shot anyway, ya never know what you're going to get. It may not be the best looking thing, but it'll damn sure come out better than any of the "black blade" ideas:D

Some people have also lit up flat acrylic sheet that has been frosted to achieve sword like shape blades.

Would EL wire be any kind of solution? In theory you could outline the edges of the blade from inside. I don't know much at all about EL but it seems like a reasonable idea.

Yeah CC, I think EL might be better for this idea, but that's just a hunch. The only way to really do a brightness comparison between the two would be to build it both ways and find out.

Could you point me in the right direction of what I need to know about EL? I know somewhat about LEDs but EL's .....???

Thanks

There's a whole forum right above this one about EL sabers. :rolleyes: Lots of info about Electroluminescent wire in there. ;)

Much of it written by me.

Or you could just go with a makoto style blade. That way you will not have any problem with the tip (if you do bend the pc) being dim or dark. Problem with this should be diffusion.

<b>Idea:</b> Say that you have bent and flattened out the pc so it looks more like a katana blade. And you use (partially) sanding (or blasting) as diffusion, what if you sand the "edge" of the blade in another way? To similate the effect the katana blade has due to its hardening process.

IE to similate this effect:
http://www.paul-chen-swords.com/cont...nite-blade.jpg


Btw, this sounds cool. And as usual there is only one way to find out if it works or not.

TRY!
:D

How would makoto style lighting fit in a flattened blade? Creating a hamon line on your blade might be interesting though.

I will be putting an order in after the first for parts and to get a few ideas underway. Thanks for all the ideas and info.
I will keep you all posted as I make progress into this plan.

I had a similar idea to this, though instead of relying on something like a Luxeon, it involves the use of makoto style LEDs, like TimeRender mentioned. though, if it was possible and if I were you, I'd make it a clear blade and have at least 2 or 3 LEDs that light up/turn off in sequence (like how the sabers from MR have the extending effect, but instead of retracting, they shut off in the same order they power on.

Though, to implement something like that WOULD be difficult, I have a similar goal for a future project, so I'd say at least explore your options.

Don't misrepresent me BR. I never suggested using Makoto style LEDs in a flat blade. In fact, I don't see how it is at all possible, and I hinted at that in an earlier response. I haven't built a Makoto yet, but it's my understanding that it takes up most of the space in an ordinary blade, so I can't see how it could fit inside one that has been squished flat. The only option I do see working is EL, either in wire or sheet form.

one thing to consider when heating up polycarbonate is it's very temperature resistant. if you're planning on taking a torch to it, you'll blacken it before it melts. it's thermal resistance and toughness is part of why it's used in headlight manufacture where it is brought in as tiny pellets, dried (Because plastic will absorb moisture) and put into a hopper where it feeds into a screw and barrel As the screw turns, it causes the pellets to melt by friction with one another. The barrel the screw sits inside is heated at around 500-600 degrees depending on the mold size
.all this does is help maintain the optimal temperature of the plastic before it is injected into the mold cavity at very high pressure.

Another thing you should know, if you didn't already, this is a plastic that will break, rather than bend. So be careful.
Sorry if I was boring anyone, just wanted to pass along some insight from my old job where I played with polycarbonate ^_^

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TimeRender

Don't misrepresent me BR. I never suggested using Makoto style LEDs in a flat blade. In fact, I don't see how it is at all possible, and I hinted at that in an earlier response. I haven't built a Makoto yet, but it's my understanding that it takes up most of the space in an ordinary blade, so I can't see how it could fit inside one that has been squished flat. The only option I do see working is EL, either in wire or sheet form.

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Sorry, my bad. Didn't mean any disrespect. And yeah, if you're trying to make the flat blade to be the EXACT thickness (the outside diameter I'm referring to) and than install the Makoto LEDs, than OBVIOUSLY, it wouldn't work since the LEDs would be sticking out, the walls would be too thin for the light to shine through properly, and the size of the electronics in general would be impossible to fit within the confounds of the blade/grip. though, if you scaled the katana-esque sword so that it 'could' accommodate the electronics, it would be possible, save for the fact that it may step outside your preference of having it the size of a katana.

Long Story Short, the blade AND the handle have to be either unaltered and just have a non-electronic/static prop, or scale it up to accommodate for any sort of electronics to fit (soundboard and LEDs if you so wish...), and make the inward diameter of the blade be able to let light pass through.

I'm sorry, I don't understand what you're talking about BR.

Considering that darkkhild wants to make a flat blade (given that's where he's going, assuming he's also aiming to have electronics in the hilt as well), I was just tossing up things he may have to do to make it work right. Though, now that I look at Blue Fox's post, it makes me wonder..... how DOES darkkhild intend to make a flat blade, given what can happen if he tries to melt it down to reshape it (based on Blue Fox's post)?

I think EL sheet would be the best bet for providing a evenly lit, flat blade. It won't be that bright though. I don't see anything else working with decent results. Of course this is all dependent on whether or not the flat blade can be made in the first place. If flatening the PC is out then maybe (assuming this is for display only) the blade could be cut out of a solid peice of acrylic or poly c sheet. If the outside were frosted then the light would travel up the blade like fiber optics, right? Kind of like that light whip.

I don't know if you guys have seen it, but there is a portable heater that electricians use that will heat up PVC conduit and allow them to bent the conduit to what they need in bends, flares, etc...

This was one idea, since I work in construction on some large jobs at that. I have seen this device used a few times, and the thought came to me if I could allow the PC to heat up in a unified way and allow it to melt upon itself.

Though Blue Fox has me thinking now, that this may not work.

Maybe back to the drawing board with this idea, just like the Coyote.

Just don't buy any parts from ACME. ;)

If you know someone that works in a pizza place one of those ovens could work.:p Not sure how you would compress the blade evenly though. I think you would need a mold.;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sunrider

If you know someone that works in a pizza place one of those ovens could work.:p Not sure how you would compress the blade evenly though. I think you would need a mold.;)

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At that thickness, I doubt a Pizza oven will do it. PVC has a lower melting point btw. and does melt. And depending on what type of PC is used in blades, it may not be molded into shape at all. I'm thinking that, given it's transparent nature, blades are made of the Thermoset variety, which means once you've got the plastic molded and it's cool, that's it. you're not bending or flattening it at all. if it's the same PC we used to make headlights... yea, you're not doing it.

It is possible to at least bend a polycarb tube, I've done it.

A friend wanted a joke EL blade, one he could wear with a Parks saber, to make it look like he'd been stabbed through the side, while he was wearing his Tusken Raider costume.

We started with a 48" long 3/4" tube and fed a piece of rope though it to keep the 2 bends from kinking. We needed to put 2 bends, and a curve in it.

We used a regular propane torch to heat up and soften the polycarb, and it took a long time. Plus, we didn't care what it looked like, since the bend and curve would be hidden.

It was not easy to bend, but we did it. But we were only doing about a foot. I can't imagine trying to heat up a whole tube and trying to flatten it in a uniform manner.

The polycarbonate we use for blades is a different type than what is used in safety glasses and headlights, I'd imagine. Here's the specs of the stuff I used to use before I found TCSS:

Quote:

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Product Description
Polycarbonate is a transparent high molecular weight, linear, low-crystalline plastic. It is generally sought out for its very high impact resistance which approaches 30 times that of safety glass. Light transmittance is 90 percent. In addition to being a very hard plastic, it has a very high modulus of elasticity making it resistant to creep; it has excellent electrical resistivity, and an operating temperature range of -275 F to 250 F. It is generally unaffected by greases, oils and acids. Hardness is 112-125 Rockwell R (73-78 M Scale). Heat deflection temperature is 275-285 Degrees F at 264 PSI. Easily fabricated by machining, drilling, and sawing with a low likelihood of cracking or chipping. Solvent resistance is poor but polycarbonate is easily bonded. Prolonged exposure to solvents with the material under stress will result in crazing and cracking.

* Operating temperature range of -275 F to 250 F
* Transparent
* Very High Impact Resistance
* Easily Solvent Bonded
* Easily Fabricated

Specifications
Color Name: Clear
Upper Temperature Range: 250 Degrees Fahrenheit
Inside Diameter Tolerance: +/-0.015 inches
Outside Diameter: 1 inches
Outside Diameter Tolerance: +/-0.015 inches
LowerTemperature Range: -275 Degrees Fahrenheit
Item Shape: Round
Hardness: ROCKWELL R 73-78
Wall Thickness: 1/16 inches

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I'm just guessing, but the tubing Tim sells is probably very similar to these specs.

That said, flattening a polycarbonate tube and getting it equally flat along the length might be a challenge, unless you have a way to heat it and flatten it at the same time. A blade tip would be out of the question, so you'd also have to flatten the tip end enough to close it off. I think the ideas for using either EL wire or sheet would probably work best for this type of a blade.

It is possible. Search for polycarbonate forming & it says best forming temp is 280F. It would take a long time to heat then need to be compressed in a mold. A wooden mold would not be that hard to make, but to compress properly sounds tricky.;)

Ok guys!
Here is the deal, I have had the whip cracked at me to get somethings done before My first child comes into this world. With this being said, i have to put the project on hold for now. If I get anything done when I can Iwill Doc. it and post it as I can.

Have faith with me, I plan on trying this even If it doesn't pan out to what I want, I can say I did do it

I'll keep you posted as I go!!!

Thanks for all of the feedback and ideas!

*whhhhooh--KISSHHH*!!! :p