is there another way to secure the blade other than a screw? i would love to have a chuck like emitter or release similar to a socket wrench. i have a few ideas flying around my head but nothing concrete.
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is there another way to secure the blade other than a screw? i would love to have a chuck like emitter or release similar to a socket wrench. i have a few ideas flying around my head but nothing concrete.
maybe something like a mag release
someone else was toying with the idea of a chuck-like system, not sure if it ever went anywhere though
i believe the chuck style will work. if designed right those things can really hold tight.
Well, you'd be the first, because some of the best minds have been working on it for a while and haven't accomplished much. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Vand-Alar
Last time it was brought up, I believe Acerocket mentioned he'd seen it done once before. It's a very complicated and expensive solution to a problem that's solved with a $0.30 screw and a matching hole. There's a reason very few people go that route.
Sounds like a cool idea. I would think the place to look would be the quick release connectors for pneumatic tools: air hammers and whatnot.
Agreed with Silver Serpent...do you have any idea whats in a socket wrench/quick release connectors....(more then a screw)...a spring, a ball baring, a push pin ....I would go on but you get the point. :)
It could be accomplished by a skilled machinist and some good understanding of how collets work. Though if paying for the work I would bet it would be several hundred dollars of time plus materials. Two theaded parts with a tapered internal and two sets of threads on one. Then the collet it self.
Any collet based retention system would pretty much be incompatible with any emitter shrouds you'd have on your hilt, because you'd have to find a way to tighten the blade holder and keep those in the proper orientation. I agree it would be a really neat concept, but a screw is still the way cheaper and easier way to go.
I have seen a collet clamp type emitter done way back in 2004. It was done on a saber that was based on Qui-gon Jinn's and past of the emitter was the tightening mechanism. It was not a cheap set up and was complicated to do and still have the blade light up.
Agreed, it would have to be integral to the emitter, not an add-on to an existing. Essentially 3 or 4 intricately machined precision parts. Hence the several hundred for a 1 off machining.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quixotic Jedi
Quick iPad/Sketchbook Pro Sketch depicting.
http://i.imgur.com/RZQ8shE.jpg
That sketch should be thrown in the store wishlist thread :)
One might be a hundreds-of-dollars part, but once Tim's made one, the cost of setup can be amortized over many purchases.
The parts in green and gray in your sketch could be standard, and different designs of the orange sleeve could give you several distinct looks.
Lots of BCS (blade chuck system) emitters would be a pretty sweet addition to the hobby!
Also, not for nothing, but it's cheaper and easier to paint the lens of your flashlight green with a magic marker, duct tape a golf club protector tube to it and make the vroom vroom noises with your mouth. That was all the technology available to me in 1977. It was a blast, but people seem to have come up with new ideas since then. I bet some people even tried things that didn't work for them, but somebody else made work later.
Thought experiments and discussion are free, and sometimes lead to fun/cool results.
The hobby is supposed to be fun/cool, right?
Well it's been publicly shown so it's public domain and no longer patentable so have at it.;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Mineral
I design and invent for a really good living...this is always fun.
love the design. its about what i had in mindQuote:
Originally Posted by FenixFire
never thought about that when i posted the original post. i might be able to draft a version of it and get a machinist to make it. maybe the owner of tcssQuote:
That sketch should be thrown in the store wishlist thread
One might be a hundreds-of-dollars part, but once Tim's made one, the cost of setup can be amortized over many purchases.
The parts in green and gray in your sketch could be standard, and different designs of the orange sleeve could give you several distinct looks.
Lots of BCS (blade chuck system) emitters would be a pretty sweet addition to the hobby!
Nobody said you couldn't do it, or that it was impossible. We just said it's a lot more complicated and expensive to do over the current method with a blade retention screw. Feel free to experiment and innovate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mineral
after doing a little thinking, 3 layers will not work. mod blade holder 2 by shaving it down to the top of the thread, thread it then shave off about 2/3 the threads then mill in the channels to make it a collet. then make a matching sheath for it.
otherwise the emitter will be too big
As long as the modified emitter had a tapered end that interfaces with a tapered surface on the shroud then yes that could work. If designed properly the internal collet could be flush with the front surface of the outer blade holder section in the sketch, or it could extend out as blade claws. I have designed my fair share of collets for surgical drills and saws where the collet seats flush with the leading edge and the jaws interlock when fully tightened preventing tissue debris from entering the blade holder...funny how it is even called the same thing...just realized that sorry! The onlything driving the length of the collet is the design of the holder and the stability that you want out of it. I have seen 1" diameter High-speed spindle collets as short as 1/2" on some of the commercial honing and milling machines i have designed, but they were only running 2" long bits. I have also seen some that exceeded 6" for honing bits that exceeded 6 feet.
The benefit of the internal collet is that to change out blade sizes you only need to change out the internal collet. This opens up the realm of modularity of the design and system as a whole. 1 base emitter/adapter, 3 sizes of internal collets (3/4, 7/8, and 1"), and several styles of the outer housing. The line could then be expanded offering different styles of collets that give a different aesthetic to the blade/collet interaction.
Something that was in line with the aesthetics of #13 would be very easy to accomplish assuming material thickness would not be an issue.
The cool factor on this idea is through the roof. The people in this hobby do stuff that's cool, just for the sake of it being cool. In my opinion, if TCSS had a product of this type with a sub-$75 price tag, it would be difficult to keep up with demand.
And a great thing for TCSS would be the barbie-doll effect:So have a $50-60 base model, but also sell styled and sized internal collets and different sleeve/housings for $25-30 per component to really customize the look.Quote:
Originally Posted by FenixFire
For the customer, no more locating/drilling/tapping a hole for a weirdly out of place thumb knob on the end of your hilt, easy tool-free blade changing, and serious nerd-cool-cred with the people you show your saber to.
Well then maybe I should be charging my $140/hour consulting fee...;)...just kidding this consulting is fun, and I hope to see this go somewhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mineral
This is exactly the reason i started this post.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mineral
There are these things called discrete set screws which also make for decent blade retention screws. I use them quite a bit when I don't want a "not so weirdly out of place" thumb screw on my blade holder.
I bet you could get him to call them FenixFire-style collets :)Quote:
Originally Posted by FenixFire
But you need a tool to remove your blade. Nobody's saying the current way is bad, just that this way would be cool.Quote:
Originally Posted by Forgetful Jedi Knight
Sometimes it feels like the old guard don't like innovative thought...or in this case rethinking a method that had been done by a couple of smiths about a decade ago or so I have been told. I run into it alot usually right before a startup launches and really hurts the market share of the big name being complacent. Bissell and Hover both turned down Dyson back in the 70's because they thought the no-bag approach would cut into their sales of bags...then they both had to play catch-up.
Cool, but mostly impractical. It could/would only work in certain design instances.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mineral
Not interested! I know what it takes to bring product to market and successful launch them. I just offered it up, took me a grand total of less than 5 minutes to sketch and post the image. Though I would not have offered it up to another shop, Tim has my full respect with the quality of his parts and the level of service I have received.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mineral
Not necessarily FJK. If properly designed it could work for 90% of the styles sold in the shop now. The non-symmetrical ones would need some way other way of tightening the collet, but I have a solution in mind for that already using a spanner style threaded endcap. That style would need a tool, but still be "hidden".Quote:
Originally Posted by Forgetful Jedi Knight
Impractical in what way? Cost. To be honest that is exactly what Oral B said when proposing the first manual toothbrush to be retailed for over $5...walk down your local stores toothbrush isle. Guess I was right considering I designed several of the ones hanging there from J&J, Oral B, and Colgate. Commodity pricing is fine if you only want to compete on price...that usually only leads to one place...competing with less than reputable competitors...
i see issues arising with the 'thin necked' ones like style 5 as there isnt alot of mspace for a collet in it or the cut out ones like style 4 as you will have the collet blocking the cuttoutsQuote:
Originally Posted by FenixFire
personally i like CES or collet emitter system. fits in with MWS MHS and MPS which are already used by TCSSQuote:
I bet you could get him to call them FenixFire-style collets
This is true about literally everything in the store.Quote:
Originally Posted by Forgetful Jedi Knight
Couldn't you make outer sleeves longer and asymetrical? You'd be at the mercy of the threads as to which way the slant/scoop ended up pointing, but we already carefully thread things with MHS parts.Quote:
Originally Posted by FenixFire
[QUOTE=Darth Vand-Alar;258664]i see issues arising with the 'thin necked' ones like style 5 as there isnt alot of mspace for a collet in it or the cut out ones like style 4 as you will have the collet blocking the cuttouts
personally i like CES or collet emitter system. fits in with MWS MHS and MPS which are already used by TCSS[/QU
Gimme' 10 minutes Ill show you.
Edit:
So after revisiting for those; The necked down and through hole ones would require a specific base for each one.
The necked down could be like this, where the base is only threaded at the end after the visible neck. then the section that bumps back out is the outer housing. Collet could be flush or protrude creating the final ring surface. If TCSS uses one of the better PC suppliers for their tubes the extrusion tolerances should be held to @+/- 0.009" for a 1" diameter, so the ring could give a fairly seamless look.http://i.imgur.com/CjYnjhM.jpg
The Through holes, well after drawing up what I had in my head, it would work great...if I where injection molding the parts; a simple male/female with a core. But not so easy machining. I will have to give it some more thought I have an Idea, but am out of time for today.
As for the Asymmetrical, yes but I and most people who would actually consider this method worth the extra $ will tend to be more perfectionists and would not tolerate relying on threads to clock the placement of the overhang. The shims would have to go on the threads between the base and the main body, potentially leaving the LED loose, not sure on this as I have only machined my bodies and emitters thus far.
make the tightening ring longer and do the cuttouts in the extentions. the protruding collet works fine for obi-luke styled emitters, will it work for the emitters that are completely flat?
-----edit-----
btw i never considered that style :) i love this forum!
now all thats needed is finding someone to make them if TCSS wont that...tim is it?...would sign off on. at worst buy 2-3 emitters (depending on weather or not you want the separate collet) and have someone mod them. btw maybe 2 styles should be done 2 piece CES for those who plan on only having one size blade or the emitter wont allow 3 pieces and a 3 piece for multiple blade sizes. personally 3 piese worries me cause im afraid the parts would get too thin but if it works it works :)
[QUOTE=FenixFire;258667]By asymmetrical, we are talking about emitters like Style 12 http://www.thecustomsabershop.com/As...older12a_t.jpg and Style 20 http://www.thecustomsabershop.com/As...older20a_t.jpg, right? How about a 4-piece safety pill-bottle type arrangement where the outermost-sleeve/shroud can spin freely on the hilt, gear-teeth and a firm spring could hold the sleeve in the desired place, but lifting up would contact the threaded tightening ring. Then you could position the "resting" shroud where it belongs, but lift and spin it to loosen the collet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Vand-Alar
If emitter position is important to a design, like my katana hilt would be, then a way to position would be necessary. The simplest solution would be clocking washers. But as this is a thread for alternative styles of doing things then. Yeah, spinning shroud would be great.
Im really glad to see this being discussed again. I asked about collet style holders a few years back and got very little response. Seems like such a simple solution. Used to use similar products on paintball gun feednecks.
ok i have an idea. we discuses the collet system working with all emitter designs except for the cut out style emitters. i think i solved it. the collet could be made out of the same materials as the dueling blades. tbe base can have a spiral cut out. size of cutout dont matter as long as the piece is still strong. then no mater how far you turn it the light will shine through. discuss.