Jay-gon Jinn's Luxeon Rebel Star Try-out

[Jay-gon Jinn]

Here's the stuff I got:
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o141/Jay-gon_Jinn/Luxeon%20Rebel%20Star%20Test%20Pictures/100_5684.jpg

This is the blue Rebel Star I ordered:
http://www.luxeonstar.com/premounted-rebel-blue-led-on-a-20mm-star-base-48-lm-p-592.php
not the brightest one available, but the one closest in price to a Luxeon III and a Seoul P4.

Here's the lens and lens holder:
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o141/Jay-gon_Jinn/Luxeon%20Rebel%20Star%20Test%20Pictures/100_5685.jpg

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o141/Jay-gon_Jinn/Luxeon%20Rebel%20Star%20Test%20Pictures/100_5686.jpg

The Rebel Star mounted to an MHS heatsink:
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o141/Jay-gon_Jinn/Luxeon%20Rebel%20Star%20Test%20Pictures/100_5687.jpg

I pre-tinned it, and then soldered the QD to the star:
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o141/Jay-gon_Jinn/Luxeon%20Rebel%20Star%20Test%20Pictures/100_5688.jpg

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o141/Jay-gon_Jinn/Luxeon%20Rebel%20Star%20Test%20Pictures/100_5689.jpg

I then installed it into Chrome Saber 1:
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o141/Jay-gon_Jinn/Luxeon%20Rebel%20Star%20Test%20Pictures/100_5690.jpg

and powered it up:
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o141/Jay-gon_Jinn/Luxeon%20Rebel%20Star%20Test%20Pictures/100_5691.jpg
It's definitely bright!

Now, when I went to add the lens and the holder, I realized I should have double checked the alignment of the led in relation to the screws in the heat sink:
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o141/Jay-gon_Jinn/Luxeon%20Rebel%20Star%20Test%20Pictures/100_5692.jpg
Oops...not going to fit like that....the led needs to be situated like so for the lens holder to fit:
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o141/Jay-gon_Jinn/Luxeon%20Rebel%20Star%20Test%20Pictures/100_5693.jpg

After several minutes of de-soldering (These things are a bit of a PITA to solder, similar to a K2), I got it re-aligned properly:
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o141/Jay-gon_Jinn/Luxeon%20Rebel%20Star%20Test%20Pictures/100_5695.jpg

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o141/Jay-gon_Jinn/Luxeon%20Rebel%20Star%20Test%20Pictures/100_5694.jpg

Now I can button up the saber, and do some comparison pictures, using CS-1 (Rebel Blue), CS-2 (Luxeon III blue) and CS-X (Seoul P4 blue.)

[Jay-gon Jinn]

Okay, here's my comparison pictures of the new Rebel Star blue led compared to a Luxeon III blue and a Seul P4 blue.

The sabers:
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o141/Jay-gon_Jinn/Luxeon%20Rebel%20Star%20Test%20Pictures/000_1511.jpg
From top to bottom-

1. Chrome Saber 1; Rebel Star, 8.7 deg. optic, MR Vader soundboard, 4- AA battery pack, 6 volts, case fresh Energizer Max's.
2. Chrome Saber X; Seoul P4, 5 deg. optic, MR Luke ANH soundboard, 4-AAA battery pack, 6 volts, case fresh Energizer Max's,
3. Chrome Saber 2; Lux III, 5 deg. optic, MR Vader soundboard, 4-AA battery pack, 6 volts, case fresh Energizer Max's.

Blades are my usual 36" Dual-Core Diffusion type, thin-walled, with modified mirrors on the blade tips. They all have about 6' of polypropylene film. I shot these pictures in my dimly lit basement using my camera mounted to a tripod. I also adjusted the setting to compensate for over exposure, to get the blades to look as close as possible to how they looked to me.

All three, in the same order as listed above:
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o141/Jay-gon_Jinn/Luxeon%20Rebel%20Star%20Test%20Pictures/000_1513.jpg
Not too bad, all of them look somewhat similar. The Luxeon III was the dimmest one of the three in this shot to me.

CS-X (Seoul P4) v.CS-2 (Lux III):
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o141/Jay-gon_Jinn/Luxeon%20Rebel%20Star%20Test%20Pictures/000_1515.jpg
CS-X wins this one....

CS-1 (Rebel) v. CS-2 (Lux III):
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o141/Jay-gon_Jinn/Luxeon%20Rebel%20Star%20Test%20Pictures/000_1517.jpg

Side by side:
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o141/Jay-gon_Jinn/Luxeon%20Rebel%20Star%20Test%20Pictures/000_1518.jpg
I'd say CS-1 with the Rebel wins this one.....

CS-1 (Rebel) v. CS-X (Seoul P4):
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o141/Jay-gon_Jinn/Luxeon%20Rebel%20Star%20Test%20Pictures/000_1516.jpg

Side by side:
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o141/Jay-gon_Jinn/Luxeon%20Rebel%20Star%20Test%20Pictures/000_1519.jpg
To me, this is a bit of a toss up....neither looked significantly brighter to me than the other.

Overall, I'd have to say that the Rebel Star will be a nice replacement for the Luxeon III, but not necessarily better than the P4. Mainly, because the P4 is a bit easier to solder to. I also noticed that the star the Rebel is mounted to is also thinner than the Lux III/V star, so the lens was a bit loose in the blade holder socket on CS-1. I temporarily glued it with hot glue to keep it in place to get these pictures. I've had the same issue with P4's too, so it's not really a big deal to me.

I have a green Rebel Star I'd like to try out next, and I also have a green P4 led, and a Luxeon III green that I could test it out with.

[Vos Malek]

Very cool. Thanks for the comparison Jay-Gon! I was thinking about trying a rebel in my next build. I'm really interested in the ones mounted on the 10mm square. I think they would work great on non mhs builds where space is limited.

[gundamaniac]

Sweet! Thanks for the comparison pics Jay-gon. I've been out of the saber loop for awhile now so I was sorta shocked when I read about the discontinuing of the III/K/V's today. Great to know that aside from the Seoul's, the Rebels also offer a viable alternative.

[Jedi Guardian]

Thanks for the great comparison. I can't wait to see the green as that's what's planned for my next build.

[ARKM]

Nice! Thanks for info. :)

[sekrogue1985]

thanks for the info Jay.

[Darth Securis]

Very nice comparrison, very useful info. Thanks for posting it.

[Onli-Won Kanomi]

Interesting comparison...especially since that wasn't even the brightest Rebel star available and still holds up well...I'm guessing that the brighter 58 lumens@700 mA one could be a winner when driven to its 1A max [70 lumens or so?].

[xl97]

Im curious as to what Tim is going to propose to this 'height' issue to with the new Stars.

being as MHS are made for the LUX's..

maybe a 'shim'..or washer type fix? eventually making new MHS bladeholders?

going to be hard to make a BH that can work with multiple leds if they are all various sizes..

maybe just keep things the same..and people buy the appropriate shim for the led they are going to use?

[Jay-gon Jinn]

That's what I was thinking, xl, a shim of some sort might help eliminate the need to glue in your lens holder with these.

[Rhyen Skytracker]

Thanks for taking the time to do the side by side comparisons. It was very helpful.

[Strydur]

If you use a standard lux 3 holder and lens they should work just as good. I have not tested this but they look to fit to the LED dome the same. When doing it this way there is less of a height issue as there is with the rebel lens holder. We have some washer shims that will work good to use between the blade holder and lens to take up any extra space.

[Jay-gon Jinn]

If you use a standard lux 3 holder and lens they should work just as good. I have not tested this but they look to fit to the LED dome the same. When doing it this way there is less of a height issue as there is with the rebel lens holder. We have some washer shims that will work good to use between the blade holder and lens to take up any extra space.
Yes, I can confirm that this does indeed work, Tim. I just tried it with one of your lens holders and a 10 deg lens, and it worked just fine. No rattling due to a loose lens holder.

[Vos Malek]

Using the thermal tape underneath the led may also take out some of the extra space. It won't take out much, but it should be enough.

[Sunrider]

Thanks for a great comp. Is the one you used the 38 or 48 at 700ma.:)

[FenderBender]

Thanks a lot for doing this Jay! Can't wait to see the green comparison. The Rebel green specs look real promising :D

[Kant Lavar]

That reminds me I wanted to sit down one day and work out a way to power a tri-Rebel using... hell, whatever I could. Thinking perhaps the new LED driver on a paralell circuit with an MR board for sound may work, though it'd require a DPDT switch and probably a resistor or inverter on the MR board...

Bah. I'll just scribble a note on my whiteboard and go to sleep. 0337 is not my best designing time; I should have learned this lesson by now. :cool:

[Kal El Rah]

Very nice comparison Jay, thanx a lot it helps very much in choosing a future light source.

[Jay-gon Jinn]

Green comparison is going to be awhile...I'm out of extra heatsinks at the moment, and don't feel like desoldering my other led's....I know, I'm lazy...;)

The green Rebel Single I got was also not the brightest one, but the most comparable in price to a green Luxeon III and Seoul P4, so it is the dimmest version of them.

[Jay-gon Jinn]

Okay, guess what? I was digging through my parts bins, and found an older, aluminum MHS heatsink and soldered up the green Rebel:
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o141/Jay-gon_Jinn/Luxeon%20Rebel%20Star%20Test%20Pictures/000_1560.jpg
This is the one that is rated for 145 lumens @ 700 ma, 3.15vf. I'll put it in CS-X for these test pics.

The sabers:
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o141/Jay-gon_Jinn/Luxeon%20Rebel%20Star%20Test%20Pictures/000_1548.jpg
From top to bottom:
1. Chrome Saber X (CS-X); Rebel Star, 5 deg. optic, MR Luke ANH soundboard, 4-AAA battery pack, 6 volts, case fresh Energizer Max's
2. Chrome Saber (CS-1-25-10); Seoul P4 green, 5 deg. optic, resistor set-up for 1000ma., 4-AA battery pack, case fresh Energizer Max's
3. Brass Saber 1 (BS-1); Luxeon III bin 3, 5 deg optic, Luke ROTJ soundboard, 4-AA battery pack, case fresh Energizer Max's.

All three lit up, same camera settings as before with the blue Rebel tests:
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o141/Jay-gon_Jinn/Luxeon%20Rebel%20Star%20Test%20Pictures/000_1551.jpg

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o141/Jay-gon_Jinn/Luxeon%20Rebel%20Star%20Test%20Pictures/000_1552.jpg
Not as impressed with particular green Rebel....but then, it is the dimmest version available.

CS-1-25-10 (Seoul P4) v. BS-1 (Green Lux III):
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o141/Jay-gon_Jinn/Luxeon%20Rebel%20Star%20Test%20Pictures/000_1553.jpg

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o141/Jay-gon_Jinn/Luxeon%20Rebel%20Star%20Test%20Pictures/000_1554.jpg

CS-X (Rebel) v. BS-1 (Lux III):
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o141/Jay-gon_Jinn/Luxeon%20Rebel%20Star%20Test%20Pictures/000_1556.jpg

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o141/Jay-gon_Jinn/Luxeon%20Rebel%20Star%20Test%20Pictures/000_1557.jpg
I'm not sure this is a fair comparison, since the Lux III is a darker shade, but it looks like the Rebel is holding it's own there to me.

CS-X (Rebel) v. CS-1-25-10 (Seoul P4):
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o141/Jay-gon_Jinn/Luxeon%20Rebel%20Star%20Test%20Pictures/000_1558.jpg

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o141/Jay-gon_Jinn/Luxeon%20Rebel%20Star%20Test%20Pictures/000_1559.jpg
I have to give this one to the Seoul P4.

I'm not entirely thrilled with how bright this particular Rebel was....I might try this again using CS-2 instead of CS-X to test the Rebel. It uses a 4-AA battery pack like the other sabers, and it looks like the AAA's in CS-X can't keep up with the drain from both the FX board and the led. I metered the batteries before the tests, and they were putting out 6.42 volts, afterward, they were down to 5.54 volts.

I think if you're going to use one of the Rebel singles for a green blade, I'd spend the extra money and get the one rated for 180 lm @ 700ma.

[Sunrider]

Don't hold back on us & go for broke man.:p The 160 @ 700ma is 6 bucks at Future Electronics. Turn dat sucka up to 1100ma so we can see what this puppy can do!:p

Please:mrgreen:

[Jay-gon Jinn]

Don't hold back on us & go for broke man.:p The 160 @ 700ma is 6 bucks at Future Electronics. Turn dat sucka up to 1100ma so we can see what this puppy can do!:p

Please:mrgreen:
Is it pre-mounted to star? If not, I won't be able to use it....I don't have the equipment to properly solder one of those tiny led's to a star myself. I've looked at that site and didn't see any Rebels pre-mounted to stars anywhere.....maybe I missed them?

Here's an interesting note on the green Rebel star....I put one in a PVC hilt that is running on 2 AA's and a 350ma micropuck and was fairly impressed with it:
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o141/Jay-gon_Jinn/Luxeon%20Rebel%20Star%20Test%20Pictures/000_1561.jpg
The PVC saber is on the bottom here, and is compared next to BS-1's Luxeon III. not too bad for only 350ma.
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o141/Jay-gon_Jinn/Luxeon%20Rebel%20Star%20Test%20Pictures/000_1562.jpg
It's a lighter shade, so it looks brighter than the Lux III in the pictures, but it's not too far off in person, really.
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o141/Jay-gon_Jinn/Luxeon%20Rebel%20Star%20Test%20Pictures/000_1563.jpg

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o141/Jay-gon_Jinn/Luxeon%20Rebel%20Star%20Test%20Pictures/000_1564.jpg
I left it sitting on the bench before I put the electronics in the hilt, and the star didn't get very warm, so I installed it in the same way I did the Lux I's without a heat sink.

Maybe they don't like being overdriven very much....not sure, but I think a much more fair test would be to build three sabers that all run from 4 AA's and 1000ma buckpucks and see how that works.

[Sunrider]

All you need is a small frying pan, regular small tip iron & solder wick to solder desolder those Little buggers. They do run super cool under 500ma & should ramp up nicely to 1100ma with good cooling.

[Jay-gon Jinn]

All you need is a small frying pan, regular small tip iron & solder wick to solder desolder those Little buggers. They do run super cool under 500ma & should ramp up nicely to 1100ma with good cooling.
Maybe, but the Rebel led's are too tiny for my fingers to handle. I'd rather buy the ones that are already soldered to a star, since they are only a few dollars more. Much easier for me.

[Sunrider]

Oh yeah I forgot to mention using tweezers. :p Don't use your fingers.:eek:

I was really surprised at how easy it turned out to be.

[killphil]

Something must be off with your optics. The green Rebel I have is rated exactly as yours is (that used to be the highest rated Rebel 2 years ago).

My setup fills up the blade very evenly and was much brighter than the green K2 I had at the time. I believe I posted some pics of it comparing to a K2 and a stock MR Yoda, and th Rebel was clearly brighter than any of those.

I also bought a Rebel on a star, but at the risk of sounding lie a complete noob, which are the pos and neg (they are labeled A and K as I'm sure you well know).

I will post pics of this when I get mine hooked up, but it will have to wait until after Tim re-opens the store so I can get a couple parts.

As for the optics, ask X-Wingband (he did mine) or Madcow. They have had great luck with the ones they use.

[Jay-gon Jinn]

Something must be off with your optics. The green Rebel I have is rated exactly as yours is (that used to be the highest rated Rebel 2 years ago).

My setup fills up the blade very evenly and was much brighter than the green K2 I had at the time. I believe I posted some pics of it comparing to a K2 and a stock MR Yoda, and th Rebel was clearly brighter than any of those.

I also bought a Rebel on a star, but at the risk of sounding lie a complete noob, which are the pos and neg (they are labeled A and K as I'm sure you well know).

I will post pics of this when I get mine hooked up, but it will have to wait until after Tim re-opens the store so I can get a couple parts.

As for the optics, ask X-Wingband (he did mine) or Madcow. They have had great luck with the ones they use.
I don't see how there could be anything wrong with the optics, Phil....I used the same one for the blue test (5 deg lens & holder from TCSS), and that looked much better. I also tried it with the 8.7deg and the holder that is sold to go with the Rebel Star singles, and it was no better. I've also tried it in different saber using different MR boards, and the results were the same.

A is the positive, K is the negative, btw.

EDIT:
Okay. I put the Rebel in Brass Saber 1 which is running a 4.8v rechargeable set up, and the Lux III green that was in it in CS-1, and the Rebel came alive! It must be something about the ROTJ board that allows it to send more current to the led than the MR Vader or Anakins do, even though all of them were running on a 4-battery (4.8v or 6v) set up. It also appeared to be a couple ticks brighter than the P4 to me, when I replaced the Lux III in CS-1 with the P4. I'd have to revise my earlier assessmant that this led wasn't all hat great, since I am now suitably impressed. Looks like I need to check the wiring in CS-X.... :rolleyes:

So, like I said earlier, if you want a really fair test, these led's need to all be run in stunt sabers using buckbucks or something like Ultrasounds or CF where you have greater control over the voltage and current the led is getting.

[gundamaniac]

Cool! I'm liking the news coming out of this thread =)

[Jin Ke]

I'm finding that I will most likely just use P4's except for Reds.... Thanks for doing this Jay!

[killphil]

I finally received my high binned Rebel mounted to a star and installed it into the saber that housed the previously rated high binned Rebel from 2 years ago.

Very bright.

I have no other saber to compare it to except the Yoda FX, but it dims the stock MR by a good margin in comparison.

[Jay-gon Jinn]

Topic Resurrection for a small update! I finally got myself another saber to use to test the green high-bin Rebel from the store here against a green Seoul P4.

The top saber is a simple stunt running a Corbin v1 driver board providing 1A(1000ma) of current for the Rebel green and is using the correct Rebel lens holder and 8.7 degree optic. Blade is a 1" x 36" TCSS thin-walled Trans-white with ~6 feet of polypropylene film and a modified blade tip.

The bottom saber is Brass Saber 22 (BS-22....more on that saber tomorrow ;) ) and is running a CF 3.1/4.1 hybrid board and is powering the P4 at 1.2A(1200ma) with a static (solid) blade; i.e. no flicker and a 5 degree optic. Blade is a 1" x 36" TCSS thin-walled Trans-white with ~6 feet of polypropylene film and a modified blade tip.

On to the pictures:
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o141/Jay-gon_Jinn/Luxeon%20Rebel%20Star%20Test%20Pictures/100_7541.jpg
The camera settings have been altered slightly to adjust for a more real-world looking image. There was no flash used in any pictures.

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o141/Jay-gon_Jinn/Luxeon%20Rebel%20Star%20Test%20Pictures/100_7542.jpg

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o141/Jay-gon_Jinn/Luxeon%20Rebel%20Star%20Test%20Pictures/100_7543.jpg

Oh, and here's one with the camera simply set on auto with no flash:
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o141/Jay-gon_Jinn/Luxeon%20Rebel%20Star%20Test%20Pictures/100_7544.jpg

So, to me, they look on par, with the Rebel to my eyes being slightly brighter even if the P4 is a bit over driven. I also like the shade of green from the Rebel better, too.

[sks1138]

Nice comparisons. I've been thinking about replacing my amber Lux III with an amber Rebel using a 1000ma buckpuck with it. I'm still a little new to all this and wasn't sure if I'd fry the Rebel.

[Causa]

yeah that is some great news! the earlier rebel green images were sort of disheartening, though I realize the older pictures were of the older model, not the current highest.

I am planning to run my rebel green at 1200mA, so overdriven a bit, I hope it looks as nice as yours.

[Sunrider]

Ah justice is done. Looks great. Thanks for the comparison. For good results use the 8.7 degree optic that was mentioned.:cool:

[psab keel]

What color bin is the Rebel?

[Jay-gon Jinn]

What color bin is the Rebel?

I have no clue, as there are no bin coding numbers on the back of the star.

[Marco]

So in a nutshell:

for blue = P4 over Lux rebel
for green = Lux rebel over P4

???

:)

[Jedi-Loreen]

Well, this thread is over a year old, and Tim said he will be getting new, brighter Rebel LEDs in stock soon, so maybe the new blues will be brighter than the P4s.

[Marco]

did you hear about ledengin 5w same electrical needs and much brighter?!

[Jay-gon Jinn]

did you hear about ledengin 5w same electrical needs and much brighter?!Yes, I've heard of it...I have one that I haven't used yet because it's a pain in the butt to solder to. They are currently not available mounted to a star pcb since LedEngin apparently changed the led.

[tachikoma1]

Note on soldering your "star" LED modules...I'm sure everyone knows this, but after much trial and error with these I had a "slap the forehead" moment. Don't solder wires to these while they are attached to the heat sink. The heat sink does it's job VERY well and sucks up all of the heat from your soldering iron making it a bit like trying to stick chewing gum onto oily wax paper. Of course, I didn't realize this until after I permanently stuck the LED to my "new style" heat sink with the adhesive patch. DOH!