Favourite Star Wars quotes... [Archive] - The Custom Saber Shop Forums

Jedi-Loreen

12-07-2009, 08:22 PM

Heh, I use that as my sig at RPF, "Sorry sweetheart, haven't got time for anything else!"

More Yoda quotes:

"Yes. A Jedi's strength flows from the force. But beware the dark side. Anger, fear, aggression. The dark side of the force are they. Easily they flow, quick to join you in a fight. If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny. Consume you it will, as it did Obi-Wan's apprentice."

"So certain are you. Always with you it cannot be done. Hear you nothing that I say?"
(http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Wars_Episode_V:_The_Empire_Strikes_Back)
"No! No different! Only different in your mind. You must unlearn what you have learned."
(http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Wars_Episode_V:_The_Empire_Strikes_Back)
"That is why you fail."
(http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Wars_Episode_V:_The_Empire_Strikes_Back)
"No! Try not. Do. Or do not. There is no try."

"Size matters not! Judge me by my size, do you? And well you should not. For my ally is the Force. And a powerful ally it is. Life creates it, makes it grow. It's energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we...(Yoda pinches Luke's shoulder)...not this crude matter. (a sweeping gesture) You must feel the Force around you. (gesturing) Here, between you...me...the tree...the rock...everywhere! Yes, even between this land and that ship! "

Sunrider

12-07-2009, 08:31 PM

Soul Food:D

Ovlos

12-07-2009, 09:07 PM

I hate to say it, but besides the other great quotes here I have to pull one from AOTC. I think I died a little inside typing that...

C-3PO head on a battle droid body:

"DIE JEDI SCUM! Wait...what did I just say?"

Lan-Ja Hamil

12-07-2009, 10:25 PM

One of my favorites is right in my sig. :)

$tarkiller

12-07-2009, 10:55 PM

Obi Wan: I have a bad feeling about this.
Qui-Gon: I don't sense anything...
Obi-Wan: It's not about the mission, its something elsewhere. Elusive.
Qui-Gon: don't center on your anxieties, Obi-Wan, keep you concentration here and now where it belongs.
Obi-Wan: But master Yoda said I should be mindful of the future...?
Qui-Gon: But not at the expense of the moment. Be mindful of the living Force.

-AND-
Leia: Would somebody get this walking carpet outta my way?!

reapero0

12-07-2009, 11:04 PM

Luke: Got 'im! I got 'im!
Han Solo: Great, kid. Don't get ****y

Obi-Dar Ke-Gnomie

12-07-2009, 11:05 PM

One of my favorite lines from Chewbacca.

Waaagh urrrmmm gaaaarrrrhhh wuuurrrr gaaaauuuurrrmm.

Jedi-Loreen

12-07-2009, 11:55 PM

I don't think you quoted that quite right, Obi-Dar. :p

;)

Johst Chora

12-08-2009, 12:49 AM

It's a trap!!!!!!

Invisas1979

12-08-2009, 01:33 AM

I actually think these lines from the new films are great lines

Obi-Wan: "If you spent as much time practicing your saber techniques as you did your wit, you'd rival Master Yoda as a swordsman"

Anakin: " I thought I already did"

Obi-Wan: "Only in your mind, my very young apprentice"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Obi-Wan: Anakin, let's be fair. Today you were the hero and you deserve your glorious day with the politicians.

Anakin Skywalker: All right. But you owe me one, and for not saving your skin for the 10th time.

Obi-Wan: Ninth time. That business on Cato Neimodia doesn't ... doesn't count.

ARKM

12-08-2009, 04:05 AM

"Laugh it up fuzzball."

Jasten Skywalker

12-08-2009, 08:01 AM

"I've got a bad feeling about this..."

haha! That's my ringtone for my girlfriend. ;)

One of my favorites would have to be: "You've failed your highness. I am a Jedi, like my father before me." So defiant. So powerful....Then the Emperor proceeds to pwn him and nearly fry him to death.

Another one is, "You'll find I'm full of surprises." Apparently Luke didn't realize that his dad was about to drop the biggest surprise is history on him right after he cuts off his hand.

Last one for now, Luke:"Listen, if you were to rescue her, the reward would be..."
Han Solo: "What?"
Luke: "Well, more wealth than you can imagine!"
Han Solo: "I don't know, I can imagine quite a bit."

Ok. One more: "One thing's for sure. We're all gonna be a lot thinner."

JamoUp

12-08-2009, 08:04 AM

Yousa thinking yousa people ganna die?

Darth Securis

12-08-2009, 09:08 AM

no you didn't just quote Jar-Jar. LOL Ahhhh!

There are so many good ones, but I prefer the one in my sig:
"The circle is now complete. When I left you, I was but the learner; now *I* am the master."

Waek_Hyndarus

12-08-2009, 11:12 AM

"Get off my plain."

Oh...wait...wrong movie...:p

Luke: Nothing to see, I used to live here you know.
Han: You're gonna die here you know...

~~~

Han: I don't care what ya smell, get in there!

~~~

Yoda: Do, or do not. There is no try.

annon

12-08-2009, 04:59 PM

"Why you stuck-up, half-witted, scruffy-looking nerf-herder!"

"Who's scruffy-looking?"

ARKM

12-08-2009, 05:10 PM

"Who's scruffy looking?"

astromech_kuhns

12-08-2009, 05:23 PM

Darth Vader: "set your course for the Hoth system!"

amazing in every way. i love it.
and

"the ability to destroy a planet is insignificant to the power of the force."

QFT!

Jedi-Loreen

12-08-2009, 06:47 PM

Han Solo: This is not going to work.
Luke: Why didn't you say so before?
Han Solo: I did say so before.

Han Solo: Look, Your Worshipfulness, let's get one thing straight. I take orders from just one person: me.
Princess Leia: It's a wonder you're still alive.
[Pushes past Chewbacca]
Princess Liea: Will someone get this big walking carpet out of my way?
Han Solo: No reward is worth this.

Han Solo: Not a bad bit of rescuing, huh? You know, sometimes I amaze even myself.
Princess Leia: That doesn't sound too hard.

Han Solo:Wonderful girl. Either I'm going to kill her or I'm beginning to like her.

Luke: So, Han what do you think of her?
Han Solo: I'm tryin' not to, kid.
Luke: Good.
Han Solo: [baiting him] Still, she's got a lot of spirit. I don't know, whaddya think? You think a princess and a guy like me...
Luke: [quickly] No.

Sunrider

12-08-2009, 08:02 PM

3PO; I'm afraid our furry little companion has gone and done something rather rash. Weeeeoooweeee. Han; Not bad for a little fur ball there's only one left.:)

Nineteen

12-08-2009, 08:10 PM

Bib: "Nee Jabba no badda."

I say that whenever someone is trying to talk to me, and I'm concentrating on something. They usually get confused and go away. :)

DJMoonbass

12-09-2009, 08:23 AM

Guy giving briefing: "the target is only three meters wide"
Pilot: "thats impossible even for a computer"
Luke: "its not impossible i used to bulls eye womp rats in my T16 back home. there no bigger than three meters..."

----------------

Luke: "just like beggars canyon back home..."

----------------

Han: "youre all clear kid now lets blow thing and go home!"

----------------

and my all time favorite!!!!!!!!

leia: "Well then i guess you don't know women very well...." MAKES OUT WITH HER BROTHER!!!!! :mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgr een::mrgreen:

cardcollector

12-09-2009, 08:32 AM

I don't agree with the satement but it is a good expression of what the Jedi believes...

If you're not with me, you're against me. (anakin)

Only a sith deals in absolutes. (obiwan)

And of course...
"Impressive"

Luke-SkyMarcher

12-09-2009, 08:44 AM

Only a sith deals in absolutes. (obiwan)

You know, that line made me cringe when I first watched it.
Folllow the logic here

1. Only a sith deals in absolutes.
2. The above is an absolute statement
3. Therefore, Obi-wan is a sith

Or look at it this way:

1. To be true, the statement "only a sith deals in absolutes" requires that the one stating it be a sith. (i.e., if anyone other than a sith deals in absolutes, the statement is false)
2. We know Obi-wan is not a sith.
3. Therefore the statement is self-defeating

cardcollector

12-09-2009, 08:46 AM

I know...
too true:)

Averjoe

12-09-2009, 10:37 AM

Vader: "If you only knew the POWER of the Dark Side."
Must be said with the appropriate clenching of your fist. LOL

Shadar Al'Niende

12-09-2009, 11:05 AM

I think a better way to put it is "Only a sith deals in nothing but absolutes."

The Jedi do deal in Absolutes, but they also believe that there are not the only options, there are always more angles to look at something from than black and white.

They really could have written that better....:rolleyes:

Crystal Chambers

12-09-2009, 11:17 AM

Yeah the absolute contradiction would make me turn to vodka if I wrote it.

I also kept yelling at the screen...you dummies, balance means Jedi and Sith will be equal.

Ep 3-5 did have the best writing IMO.
I knew this thread would be fun!

Jedi-Loreen

12-09-2009, 12:57 PM

I just wish people would get the quotes right. Some are not.

I've looked all of mine up, just to be sure. Though I actually corrected one of the quotes from one site so I know what's out there isn't perfect. :rolleyes: But I've been watching the Original Trilogy since before many of you here were born, so I shouldn't really have to look them up. :p

I know that some people who read this will probably think, "Oh, come on, J-Lo, chill out! So what if they get a couple words wrong? We still understand what they meant!"

That's not the point though, a quote should be verbatim, otherwise, it's just paraphrasing.

That's my English rant for the day. ;)

Jasten Skywalker

12-09-2009, 01:05 PM

I live with an editor, so I have to dot every "i" and cross every "t". If I don't, she will surely say something about it. Thank goodness I am usually correct with my grammar usage. She is pretty intolerant of poor grammar. lol.

Invisas1979

12-09-2009, 01:28 PM

They really could have written that better....:rolleyes:

Ha ha ha. We must be talking about most of the dialogue in all the prequel films.

No-ah 'gain, Jar Jar. You-sa goin' to da Bosses. You-sa in big doo-doo dis time

Oh the writing genius....

Ovlos

12-09-2009, 05:51 PM

"Commander Cody, the time has come. Execute Order 66."

The delivery of this line gave me a little shiver...at least Lucas didn't screw up Palpatine's dialogue TOO much...

Xoultrain

12-09-2009, 08:32 PM

"Obi-Wan has taught you well...,but you are not a Jedi yet."

One of my all time favorite quotes. It's James Earl Jones delivery, just sounds so evil, and powerful.

Onli-Won Kanomi

12-09-2009, 09:53 PM

My all time favourite is from ROTJ: "

Obi-Wan: ...what I told you was true...from a certain point of view."

Luke: A certain point of view?

Obi-Wan: Luke, you're going to find that many of the Truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view. "

That's REAL Wisdom right there...from my point of view. lol

Luke-SkyMarcher

12-10-2009, 06:10 AM

The only trouble with that, onli-wan, is if I flat out contradicted you and said, "No truth depends on anyone's point of view, (i.e., it is always solid no matter what we think of it)" you would have no way to prove me wrong. After all, you're saying the claim that "many of the Truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view," is not actually true, but true according to "you're point of view," while I would be saying that my claim was actually true.

As Darth Vader would say, "There is no escape." :p

Fortunately for Obi-wan, there is some truth in his statement, if you take "truth" as he uses it to mean "what people think is true."

Sorry guys, sometimes I just have to point out the logic in things. (Or lack of it!) :D

-------------------------

Back on topic.

An all time classic typical 3po: "We're doomed"

Pullo

12-10-2009, 12:32 PM

"You like me because I'm a scoundral, there aren't enough scoundrals in your life."
"I happen to like nice men."
"I'm nice men!"
"No you're not you're......" :cool:

Also the whole these aren't the droids your looking for bit, although my son thinks, "The force will be with you , always."

Nineteen

12-10-2009, 02:31 PM

Okay, these aren't from the movies, but they're still pretty cool:

(From The Force Unleashed: Starkiller and PROXY talking about Vader)

PROXY: "I hate being him."
Starkiller: "I think he does, too."

---

(From Jedi Academy)
Kyle Katarn: "Force powers aren't inherently good or evil; it's how you use them."

I actually say this line a lot in real life, especially when talking about good and evil in Star Wars. 8)

cardcollector

12-10-2009, 04:29 PM

Another one I really like is

"At last we will reveal ourselves to the Jedi, at last we will have revenge."

Novastar

12-11-2009, 12:46 AM

I like:

Chewie: AAAWWRROOOOOOOORRRRRRRUUUUUUGGGGGHHHHHHUU!!!

You know--the one in ANH? When he's goin' all crazy and stuff?

and then also in ESB:

Chewie: RRRAAAWWRRUUUUUUUNNNGGHHHUUUUGGGGGHHHHHHUULLLLRRR! !!

That crazy wookie. Furry. Funny. Tough. Tall. Mysterious... and completely impossible to understand without subtitles.

Tenric Starkindler

12-11-2009, 01:04 AM

EPIII:
Yoda to Palpitane: (after flipping across room to block door Palpy was trying to leave by)

"If so powerful you are...why leave?"

man even though I KNEW Yoda had to lose to make way for the original movies....he sure looked like he coulda taken Palpy out. I think he could have, but only by using the Dark Side himself....there is a point in their battle when it almost looks like Yoda chooses to back off.....

AND:
Leia to Han in Death Star hanger deck
"You came in that thing?" off hand gesture toward Falcon, "You're braver than I thought."

Jedi-Loreen

12-11-2009, 01:29 AM

Another one I really like is

"At last we will reveal ourselves to the Jedi, at last we will have (our) revenge."
:rolleyes:

;)

Master Dru-Er

12-11-2009, 07:01 AM

"I suggest a new strategy R2, let the Wookiee win."

The above being a big favorite of mine since I was kid. Personally though I think Vader/James Earl Jones has the best collection. The rest are all from ESB (duh :rolleyes: preaching to the choir here) which also happens to be my favorite movie out of them all.

Admiral Ozzel: [appearing onscreen with Captain Piett] Lord Vader, the fleet has moved out of lightspeed and we're preparing to...
[Ozzel stops, and suddenly begins to choke, clutching at his throat]
Darth Vader: You have failed me for the last time, Admiral. Captain Piett?
Captain Piett: Yes, my lord?
Darth Vader: Make ready to land our troops beyond their energy field, and deploy the fleet, so that nothing gets off the system.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/ozzel.jpg
[beside Piett, Admiral Ozzel utters one last strangled gasp, and falls over dead]
Darth Vader: You are in command now, Admiral Piett.
Admiral Piett: Thank you, Lord Vader.

"Alert all commands. Calculate every possible destination along their last known trajectory. "

"Asteroids do not concern me, Admiral. I want that ship, not excuses."

"He will join us or die, my master"

"Impressive. Most impressive. Obi-Wan has taught you well. You have controlled your fear. Now, release your anger. Only your hatred can destroy me. "

"There will be a substantial reward for the one who finds the Millenium Falcon. You are free to use any methods necessary but I want them alive - no disintegrations!"

Invisas1979

12-11-2009, 07:45 AM

[QUOTE=Luke-SkyMarcher;155373]The only trouble with that, onli-wan, is if I flat out contradicted you and said, "No truth depends on anyone's point of view, (i.e., it is always solid no matter what we think of it)" you would have no way to prove me wrong. After all, you're saying the claim that "many of the Truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view," is not actually true, but true according to "you're point of view," while I would be saying that my claim was actually true.

Unless we asked you to prove truth to be a solid.... At which point you would create a truth based on you own point of view, thus contradicting yourself and proving Obi-Wans point....

Luke-SkyMarcher

12-11-2009, 08:41 AM

Unless you tried to prove that truth was not solid, at which point you begin to ask "is it true that there is no truth?" (Real truth, I mean, solid and objective whether we believe it or not, like it or not, even know it or not.) It's like cutting off the branch you're sitting on. It's a self-contradicting statement, like saying, "No English sentence is longer than five words." The statement itself disproves itself: by claiming there is no real truth, you are claiming that it is really true that there is no (solid/objective) truth, and have defeated your argument while making it.

And that is why truth is solid: It is impossible to have it otherwise. (Trust me on this. Many philosophers have tried, and failed.)

Note that nothing here is based on my "point of view." Just logic. And you can't disprove logic either, because you would then be proving the arguments invalid which led to your conclusion... cutting off the branch you're sitting on.

-----------------------

Nobody's quoted R2 yet!
I think the "scream" is just classic.

Triskale Dagin

12-11-2009, 10:19 AM

I love ESB, and so my favorite quotes are from there. These are tops for me.

Luke: I don't, I don't believe it.
Yoda: That is why you fail.

Luke: There's something not right here... I feel cold. Death.
Yoda: That place... is strong with the dark side of the Force. A domain of evil it is. In you must go.

Luke: What's in there?
Yoda: Only what you take with you. Your weapons; you will not need them

Invisas1979

12-12-2009, 04:36 AM

Shadar Al'Niende

12-12-2009, 08:21 AM

"Something's happening. I'm not the Jedi I should be. I want more. But I know I shouldn't."
~Anakin Skywalker~

Luke-SkyMarcher

12-12-2009, 09:46 AM

But is truth solid, is it not a word we created to try and label something we see as fixed. In labeling it we make it something that is open to interpretation. The only truth is mathematical truth but this is all numbers, not words. And we don't talk in mathematics but letters and words which due to the numerous amounts of languages and dialects varies greatly. So you see truth does vary greatly depending on our own point of view.

;)

“Never tell me the odds!”

Firstly, you never answered my argument by showing how it is even possible for truth to be anything but fixed.

Don't try to fog the issue by bringing up languages. It doesn't matter if you call water "water," "lava," or "brilibrinang." It's still the same thing. "A rose by any other name still smells the same." The truth exists regardless of how we label it or what we think of it, or even if we know about it.
Try telling the police that "It's just your point of view that I robbed the store. In my point of view, I was just taking what should have been mine in the first place." I don't think you'll get very far. The real world doesn't work that way. You can have the point of view that if you cross the street now, the bus that's coming will just pass right through you. But if you acted on it, the brutal Truth would smash you flat on the pavement.

What people think about the truth, or what they believe to be true definitely does vary by their point of view. But the actual Truth does not.

Now people can misinterpret someone's meaning when they state the truth in words, but that doesn't change the actual facts. People can believe something sincerely and still be wrong.

You say "the only truth is mathematical truth." Of course, you must mean by this that "mathematical truth" is not actually true. After all, your words are open to "interpretation," right?

I hope you see the point. You're still trying to prove that all statements that are not mathematical are not (solid/objectively) true. But the statement that "All statements that are not mathematical are not (solid/objectively) true" disqualifies itself from being true, because it is not a mathematical statement. It is still self-refuting. Cutting off the branch you're sitting on...

now,

"If you'll excuse me..." ;)

Triskale Dagin

12-12-2009, 01:11 PM

True..

TimeRender

12-12-2009, 09:59 PM

Since you brought up a Shakespearean quote (which you misquoted btw) I thought I would share with you a bit of trivia. "The Rose" was the name of a rival theater near "The Globe", where Shakespeare performed his shows. The line "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet" was a joke about the bad reputation the theater had for being rather smelly. Shakespeare liked to include dirty jokes that would entertain the less sohpisticated audience members. If you want some more examples, go ask your local Shakespeare expert to explain the dirty jokes in Hamlet and Twelfth Night, in which he finds creative ways to hide a certain 4 letter word...

Sunrider

12-13-2009, 09:28 AM

Mi Gin Gonn

12-13-2009, 11:18 AM

mine would be directed at any religious fanatic trying to win me over:

Luke to the Emperor from ROTJ:
"You're wrong. You won't convert me as you did my father."

Sunrider

12-13-2009, 07:53 PM

"Don't you call me a mindless philosopher, you overweight glob of grease!" "I've just about had enough of you. Go that way! You'll be malfunctioning within a day, you near-sighted scrap pile!";)

Triskale Dagin

12-13-2009, 11:00 PM

And how could we forget:

"Threepio, you tell that slimy piece of worm-ridden filth he'll get no such pleasure from us! Right?"

Luke-SkyMarcher

12-14-2009, 07:37 AM

To argue the meaning of such subjective terms is like trying to fill a basket with water. It will not carry far. Even mathematical calculations can be denied by people who deny science. As history is written by the conquerors and not the conquered a simple majority is needed to turn true to false. Obi wan's statement, from a certain point of view points out the subjective nature of opinion. This is about as true a statement as one can make, as we can see right here.:)

Of course people's opinions depend on their point of view. That's pretty much true by definition.

It's important to realize, though, that what is actually true does not.

You said, "Even mathematical calculations can be denied by people who deny science." Of course, anyone can deny anything they want to, but that doesn't mean that what they deny is actually false, or even that their denial is based on logical or reasonable thinking. Sometimes people deny things simply because they find them inconvenient and don't want to deal with them, like the alcoholic who refuses to acknowledge that he's addicted.

You say "a simple majority is all that is needed to turn true to false." Suppose we got everyone to vote that we could defy gravity at will, or turn the sky green on a whim, or even that the earth ought to be flat. Even if we got a strong majority, do you really expect that you would be able to levitate, or turn the sky green, or that the earth would conform and become flat? The majority can be wrong.

As to the writing of history, if what is recorded/reported is false, then those who read it will be believing falsehood. Just because they think it is true doesn't make it actually true.

What I'm trying to stress here is that there can be a huge difference between opinion/what people think is true, and that which is actually true.

Opinion naturally varies from person to person. Actual truth is the same, no matter what we think of it. And not only is it impossible to prove otherwise, it is impossible to even say otherwise without contradicting yourself. ;)

Sorry for the thread hijack.

Sunrider

12-14-2009, 08:50 PM

Darth Vader: "So, you have accepted the truth?"
Luke: "I've accepted the truth you were once Anakin Skywalker, my father."
Darth Vader: "That name no longer has any meaning for me."
Luke: "It is the name of your true self. You've only forgotten. I know there is good in you. The Emperor hasn't driven it from you fully. That is why you couldn't destroy me. That's why you won't bring me to your Emperor now."

True or false; Anakin, evil is he?

Black & white question this is. Yet black and white answer there is not. With most things true this is, or all, on ones point of view it depends. Hmmm ;)

Eco

12-14-2009, 09:22 PM

I'll save the thread!

Vader's quotes
"Impressive... Most impressive..."

"Your skills are now complete."

"It is too late, for me, son."

That last one was done so well! Even now it still sounds incredibly sad.

AOTC quotes:

[Jango to Boba in Mando'a] "Yue, Boba, uuh det sohie."
(I spelled that phonetically, I'm sure it doesn't match the script or Mando'a spelling.)

ESB
Chewbacca laughs
"Laugh it up Fuzzball!"
I just love Chewie's laugh! XD

"What about Luke?"
"shyyriiwook"
"What!? A Jedi!? I'm out of it for a little while and suddenly everybody has delusions of grandeur!"

I forgot my favorite line of Vaders!
"NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!"
:D

Luke-SkyMarcher

12-15-2009, 07:13 AM

True or false; Anakin, evil is he?

Let us examine this question. Why is it hard to give a straight answer? Because of the ambiguity of what, exactly, you are referring to by the word "Anakin."

First, consider the person in question. When he was born, his mother named him "Anakin." He was a slave. He was "rescued" by Qui-gon's bet. He became a jedi. He later turned to the dark side, and in doing so had his name changed to "Darth Vader."

Now despite these changes in "occupation" if you will, or even in name, the same person exists. He has the same body, the same memories, a continuous uninterrupted experience of life, etc.

The actual truth is, in turning to the dark side, this person has become evil.

Now consider the question, "Is Anakin evil."
If "Anakin" is defined as "This person before his name was changed to 'Darth Vader,'" the answer is, of course not.
If "Anakin" is defined as "This person's real name, no matter what he's called now," then yes, once he turned to the dark side, he is evil.

Notice that the actual truth is the same regardless: This person has turned to the dark side, and is evil.
The truth is solid.

What differs is what, exactly, one refers to as "Anakin." It is still opinion/personal preference that varies, not the actual fact. Expressing the same facts in different words does not change those facts. No matter how you say it, the fact remains that this person was good before he joined the dark side, and evil after.

It is crucial to be able to distinguish between fact and opinion.
For example, suppose a friend repaints their house a new color. The neighbor on one side thinks it's an improvement. The neighbor on the other side thinks it looks worse. But no matter what they think of it, the fact is still absolutely the same, for all people in all circumstances, that our friend's house is a different color now than it was before. (Yes, it is even true for the blind/colorblind: just because they don't know it or can't recognize it doesn't change the fact.)

And it is still absolutely true, for all people in all circumstances, that one of our friend's neighbors thinks the house looks better with the new color, and the other neighbor thinks it looks worse.

No matter how you express it, or even if you deny it, the truth remains the same, if you agree with it or not, if you like it or not, even if you know it or not. It is still impossible to have it otherwise. ;)

Novastar

12-15-2009, 08:16 AM

@ Luke Sky-Marcher:

http://www.philosophyforum.com/philosophy-forums/branches-philosophy/epistemology/2947-distinction-between-fact-truth.html#post42097

I believe most everyone should "re-think" the definitions (and their interpretations) of what is "fact", what is "truth"... and the differences (if any) between the two.

Further... even though this thread was/is about SW quotes and things about fact/truth are coming up...

...AND the fact (????, heheh) that Star Wars is just a bunch of films...

...it seems pretty clear that the entire POINT of the "Anakin/Vader/whatever" character is to show that:

Yes--redemption can be found by anyone...
At the most oddest of moments...
In one's darkest hours...
And even when it seems that there is nothing left but badness & evil...
Like a star to the unlit midnight sky...
It can light a soul's brazier aflame.

The fact that Vader/Anakin "removes his mask of evil" before he dies a mortal death... would verify that--yes--there still IS/WAS a sense of good/righteousness left in him...

However small...
However untimely--as in "too little, too late, bub!"

SO... in summation, Skymarcher:

I fully disagree with you. Your "facts" and "truths" (even in this fantasy-based SW world)... are inaccurate. :cool:

I also believe that a human is defined by their ACTIONS (whether as a "character in a story"... or a true, living man like you or me or your neighbor with the painted house).

And a human can't be summed up in a black & white box stamped "evil" or "good". The world is not so black & white, I'm afraid.

In terms of SW "facts":

* Anakin turned to the dark-side at one point = FACT
* Anakin was once part of the light-side = FACT
* I was once 25 years old = FACT
* Anakin watched his mother die = FACT
* Anakin is evil, was evil, or is good, was good = BELIEVE

When you attach emotional qualities to facts... they tend to get distorted... as you have a MIXTURE of fact + fiction/believe. For example:

* Anakin became forever evil by turning to the dark-side at one point = MIXTURE
* Anakin's life was in turmoil when he discovered his mother and had to watch her die = MIXTURE
* When I was 25 years old, I was in better physical shape than I am now = MIXTURE
* I painted my house green and it uplifted me, giving me a fresh outlook on the entire house = MIXTURE

Hmm.

Anyhow. :)

Luke-SkyMarcher

12-15-2009, 09:57 AM

On rethinking definitions/interpretations of truth/fact, the "fact" still stands: Truth, in the traditional sense, must exist.

If you say "Truth does not exist," you are saying that it is true that truth does not exist, defeating your own argument.

If you say, "The only things which are true are mathematics and self-evident statements," you are again defeating your own argument because that statement is neither self-evident nor mathematical.

If you say "Reality exists outside of us, but it is impossible for us to know anything about it for sure," you are still defeating your own argument because you are claiming to know for sure that you cannot know for sure...

Is the skeptic skeptical about his skepticism? :p

No matter how you disguise it, disbelief in the truth always becomes self-refuting. Unless perhaps you come down to it and say, "I don't want to believe truth exists because that would be inconvenient for me." But then it's based on emotion, not fact/logic.

Now as far as I can tell from your post, Novastar, you "fully disagree" with my analysis of Anakin because Anakin turned back to the light side.
Now, of course, if you consider him at the end of his life, rather than, say, in the middle of ESB, then you could say that he was not evil, but had done/experienced great evil in his life. That is, of course, the other factor which would have to be considered in asking such a question: at what time in his life are you referring to? Yes, redemption definitely occurs.

Also, you mentioned that people can't be categorized as "good" or "evil," though you don't seem to give any reason, except that people should be judged by their actions, and presumably no person has "entirely" evil actions or "entirely" good actions (Even Hitler did not do evil with every action, and even Mother Theresa did not do good with every action - right?). And yet we still recognize Hitler as evil and Mother Theresa as good. Perhaps it depends not on their actions, per se, but on the way they were most inclined to act, and therefore the way they acted more often.
For example. A starship captain makes an error, endangering the crew and the mission. Anakin the Jedi Knight would be most inclined to do what was necessary to save the crew and the mission. Darth Vader the Sith would be most inclined to strangle the one who made the error. Hence why we would be most inclined to call "Anakin" good and "Darth Vader" evil. The fact that they are, indeed, the same person at different times of life does not change that.

Now on another point you brought up. Putting emotion in the mix does not make a statement somewhere between true and false.
"* I painted my house green and it uplifted me, giving me a fresh outlook on the entire house = MIXTURE"
If someone went around telling people that painting your house green made you depressed, you would think "that's not true, it uplifted me, not depressed me." Of course, not everyone will feel the same emotion upon viewing your newly painted house, but the fact that you feel uplifted does not change. It would still be absolutely true.

If, on the other hand, you said, "The paint on my house is uplifting to people," Then it would be a mixture; some people may find it uplifting, others may not. But it is still true that those who do, do, and those who don't, don't. Those who are in between, are in between. But there's nothing ambiguous about it to the individual. :cool:

Sunrider

12-15-2009, 07:09 PM

Control control you must learn control.

Use the force Luke, let go Luke.

Life is as delicate as a drop of dew balancing on a blade of grass, yet it exists.;)

Tenric Starkindler

12-15-2009, 08:25 PM

............................Sorry for the thread hijack.

SOOoooo very late to say that. ;-)
Though I do find the argument interesting. The difference between subjective and objective truth has fueled not only many an discussion, but many a battle (or war) as well.

Tenric Starkindler

12-15-2009, 08:28 PM

Han to Luke in ROTJ:
"How we doin'?"

Luke: "Same as always." (I might be wrong here)

Han: "That bad huh?"

Novastar

12-15-2009, 08:33 PM

Now as far as I can tell from your post, Novastar, you "fully disagree" with my analysis of Anakin because Anakin turned back to the light side.No, I disagree because (as I mentioned) the character is full/rife with actions. Actions that cannot be summed up into a black & white caricature. Even for a "character in a play/film". Humans are like this too--hard to sum up in one fell swoop... although we often do. And THAT is my point--this is open to INTERPRETATION. Facts often get mixed into interpretations. That is why they are so hard to flesh out at times.

Also, you mentioned that people can't be categorized as "good" or "evil," though you don't seem to give any reason, except that people should be judged by their actions, and presumably no person has "entirely" evil actions or "entirely" good actions (Even Hitler did not do evil with every action, and even Mother Theresa did not do good with every action - right?).Yup, I agree here... and the only amendment I should make is... I should NOT have said "can't be categorized"... only that people SHOULDN'T be categorized: if the basis is to be on FACTS. But we live in a world subject to our interpretations... and to be honest--that is where *I* feel we get "truths". To me... truth is merely a mixture of fact + "relatively intelligent assertions/interpretations based on many facts".

For example, if I murder 28 people, but (one day) spare the life of someone... it would be a relatively TRUE thing to the world for people to say: "That person is evil/wrong/bad/mean/jerk-like." And hopefully, I would be brought to justice. But it is still not a FACT that you "are" evil by having a > amount of "bad" (according to the world) actions vs. having a < amount of "good (according to the world) actions.

Good & evil are emotional/conceptual labels that get attached to certain ACTIONS. It is the actions that are factual (Dude X murdered/killed 28 people)... not the label that is then given to the person BASED on such actions...

In fact, just the circumstances ALONE could change your perspective! What if the dude X murdered 28 people who HE believed to be evil... and spared the 1... because he thought they were good?? What if, in order to POSSIBLY save OTHER lives (in the future)... this person murdered those 28 people? It's all open to interpretation. Maybe there are facts hidden in there... maybe not. But however you slice it, "good & evil" are NOT facts.

Now on another point you brought up. Putting emotion in the mix does not make a statement somewhere between true and false. "* I painted my house green and it uplifted me, giving me a fresh outlook on the entire house = MIXTURE"
If someone went around telling people that painting your house green made you depressed, you would think "that's not true, it uplifted me, not depressed me." Of course, not everyone will feel the same emotion upon viewing your newly painted house, but the fact that you feel uplifted does not change. It would still be absolutely true.To a certain extent, ok--truth "for me". But in general, absolutely not. Feelings are not facts. My feelings may change the next day--maybe the next day, I'll think: "What am I thinking? Painting that house WAS a stupid idea!!!! I'm a moron--I'll never do that again." So now, suddenly we have to amend the "facts" and say ok, he felt good about it "for a little bit". It's too emotional.

It's a mixture. Painted the house = FACT. How I "felt" about it = NOT A FACT.

In general, from MY interpretation of things... you are confusing "fact" with "truth". Facts are pretty much 99% indisputable from EVERYONE'S perspective here on earth, under our observations of the way earth + nature behaves.

TRUTHS... are interpretations of those facts... and open to dispute in some shape or form from person X to person Y. Although certain facts (sometimes) still remain parts of such truths.

But it is still true that those who do, do, and those who don't, don't. Those who are in between, are in between. But there's nothing ambiguous about it to the individual. :cool:Hmm. You say that, but people's individual perspectives are subject to change at any given moment.

A fact or numerous facts ARE NOT subject to change at any given moment. Well... not if they truly are facts! :)

I might "believe" (truly!!!!) that 2+2=769... and do so with great passion, research, study, and heartful honesty in my heart. It doesn't make it true (for the mostpart)--as it doesn't follow for 99% of the rest of the known world... and it DEFINITELY IS NOT A FACT. It might be true for a little while... but the day I discover that 2+2 actually =4... my "truth" will be broken, won't it? So then... was it EVER really "true"? Only when I believed it?? Ummm... ok. But not after that?? Um... I guess. It's confusing. Is it still true that "it WAS the truth" that 2+2=769 when I didn't KNOW 2+2=4??? *****KERPOW, [brain explodes]*****

I just say stick with the facts. Emotional connotations and labels are for drama, movies, human reaction, laughter, fun and all that. Not for science though!!

Tenric Starkindler

12-15-2009, 08:43 PM

@ Luke Sky-Marcher:

....SO... in summation, Skymarcher:

I fully disagree with you. Your "facts" and "truths" (even in this fantasy-based SW world)... are inaccurate. :cool:

I also believe that a human is defined by their ACTIONS (whether as a "character in a story"... or a true, living man like you or me or your neighbor with the painted house).

And a human can't be summed up in a black & white box stamped "evil" or "good". The world is not so black & white, I'm afraid.

In terms of SW "facts":

* Anakin turned to the dark-side at one point = FACT
* Anakin was once part of the light-side = FACT
* I was once 25 years old = FACT
* Anakin watched his mother die = FACT
* Anakin is evil, was evil, or is good, was good = BELIEVE

When you attach emotional qualities to facts... they tend to get distorted... as you have a MIXTURE of fact + fiction/believe. For example:

* Anakin became forever evil by turning to the dark-side at one point = MIXTURE
* Anakin's life was in turmoil when he discovered his mother and had to watch her die = MIXTURE
* When I was 25 years old, I was in better physical shape than I am now = MIXTURE
* I painted my house green and it uplifted me, giving me a fresh outlook on the entire house = MIXTURE

Hmm.

Anyhow. :)

Yoda: Yes, run! Yes, a Jedi's strength flows from the Force. But beware of the dark side. Anger, fear, aggression; the dark side of the Force are they. Easily they flow, quick to join you in a fight. If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will, as it did Obi-Wan's apprentice.
Luke: Vader... Is the dark side stronger?
Yoda: No, no, no. Quicker, easier, more seductive.
Luke: But how am I to know the good side from the bad?
Yoda: You will know... when you are calm, at peace, passive. A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense, never for attack.
=====================================
Luke: There's something not right here... I feel cold. Death.
Yoda: That place... is strong with the dark side of the Force. A domain of evil it is. In you must go.
Luke: What's in there?
Yoda: "Only what you take with you."
=====================================

If a man is to be judged by his actions, then he must be judged also by the results of his actions. If for the good then we must say his intent was good, if for evil then the obverse.
Those whose actions are predominately evil show themselves to be just that.

OH....and to further the actual thread....
those also qualify as some of my favorite quotes because they set many things in perspective for me when I first heard them in 1980.

Obi-Dar Ke-Gnomie

12-15-2009, 09:14 PM

Some of the best quotes came from Han Solo.

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

"Wonderful girl. Either I'm going to kill her or I'm beginning to like her."

(As the garbage compactor closes in.)
"One thing's for sure, we're all gonna be a lot thinner."

Han: "Afraid I was gonna leave without giving you a goodbye kiss?"
[/URL]Leia: "I'd just as soon kiss a Wookiee."
[URL="http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000148/"] (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000402/)Han: "I can arrange that. He could use a good kiss."

"You like me because I'm a scoundrel. There aren't enough scoundrels in your life."

Echo Base Officer: "Your Tauntaun will freeze before you reach the first marker!"
Han: "Then I'll see you in Hell!"

C3PO: His high exaltedness, the Great Jabba the Hutt, has decreed that you are to be terminated immediately.
Han: Good, I hate long waits.
C3PO: You will therefore be taken to the Dune Sea, and cast into the pit of Carkoon, the nesting place of the all-powerful Sarlaac.
Han: Doesn't sound so bad.
C3PO: In his belly you will find a new definition of pain and suffering as you are slowly digested over a thousand years.
Han: On second thought, let's pass on that, huh?

There are many more. I think Han got all the best lines, and gave them the best delivery. Maybe that's why he was the only one to have a good career after Star Wars.

Sunrider

12-15-2009, 09:27 PM

Hehe; yes yes to Obi Dar you listen.

"If only you'd attached my legs, I wouldn't be in this ridiculous position. Now remember, Chewbacca, you have a responsibility for me, so don't do anything foolish!":)

Luke-SkyMarcher

12-15-2009, 09:58 PM

I think, Novastar, that I mostly agree with you. The differences are this:

*What you refer to as "truth" I have been referring to as people's opinions/beliefes.

*What I refer to as "truth" is mostly similar to what you refer to as "fact," EXCEPT that what I am referring to as truth does not have to be agreed upon by 99% of the people to become truth/fact. It may not be recognized as such, but it is still there, waiting to be discovered. (For example, whether bigfoot exists or not is a matter of fact, but we don't really know the "facts" or "truth" yet.)

I think we are referring to basically the same things, but differences in how you define a word can make it seem different. ;)

Now, on to something else: you said "people's individual perspectives are subject to change at any given moment."
This is, in fact, true. My statement should be modified to include a time frame, for example: "At 2:00 pm on Tuesday, Dec. 18, Novastar felt uplifted from painting his house green." Now as long as you actually did, then the statement would always be true (or "a fact" if you prefer), absolutely everywhere for all people in all circumstances. The statements considering what other people felt could be modified similarly.

I do have a bone to pick with one of your other statements: "...however you slice it, "good & evil" are NOT facts."

For the sake of brevity, let us define "That which defines 'good & evil' or 'right and wrong'" as "morals."
Now there are only two possibilities with morals: they are either real or imaginary.

If they are real, then they exist outside of us, like scientific laws. If they are real, then they are fact: they are what they are, whether we agree or not, whether we like it or not, and even whether we know it or not.

If morals are imaginary, then we made them up. If they are imaginary, they are personal preference, like taste in ice cream. I might say "mint ice cream is best" while someone else will say "chocolate ice cream is best." Neither of us mean that our taste is really best, we are just expressing what we prefer. It would be absurd to say "mint ice cream is morally superior to chocolate." If morals are imaginary, they are like that.

While this second option is at first very attractive to many people, it has several problems.
Consider this: you have no basis for saying Hitler was actually wrong for killing 6 million Jews, simply because they were Jews. Sure, you can say you don't like it, but then you're tastes are no more important than anyone else's. And anyway, why should anyone care what you like?
In fact, you have no basis for saying that Martin Luther King Jr. was actually any better than Hitler.
If morals are imaginary, you cannot say that (for example) feeding hungry children is better than torturing and then killing them.

The logical outcome of believing that morals are imaginary leads you in the end to absolute silence on moral matters. After all, if morals are imaginary, than it's a matter of taste, whatever you like. And why should you impose your taste on someone else?

Saying that " "good & evil" are NOT facts." falls into the category of morals being imaginary, mere taste.

As soon as you admit that killing Jews because they are Jews is wrong, or that Martin Luther King Jr. really was morally superior to Hitler, you have ceased to believe that morals are imaginary, and are claiming that they are, in fact, real.

What trips a lot of people up is confusing absolute morals (another way of saying morals are real) with absolute actions.

Consider the example of Mr. X taking the life of 28 people. If he's defending his family from bandits, he's considered a hero. If he is the bandit, killing people to enrich himself, he's considered a villain.

In both cases, the actions are basically the same. In both cases, the same morals exists. Consider:
It is good and noble for a man to defend his family.
It is evil for someone to kill others simply for the sake of enriching himself.

The morals do not change in the circumstance. What changes is which ones apply to the particular situation. Of course, real life is much more complex, and there are many different morals applicable to any given situation. Also there is the fact that people disagree about certain morals. But just because they disagree does not mean that there is no right answer. People disagree about the existence of bigfoot, too. Yet we know that there is a right answer.

Well, it was a long bone to pick, but hopefully you understand my point.

Luke

(Yes, that really is my real first name, and no, I did not have it changed to that:cool:)

Nineteen

12-15-2009, 10:05 PM

The truth is what I say it is.

There, discussion over. ;)

Eco

12-15-2009, 10:06 PM

Maybe you all should start a new thread about this.
The thread hijack continues... and it's making the thread less fun to read.

This one's not from a movie, but from the TFU.
"General Kota and his men are attacking a critical Imperial Shipyard. etc blah blah blah".
I just like the way Vader says 'critical'! :D

Nineteen

12-15-2009, 10:07 PM

Wedge: "Good shot Janson!"

Brings a smile to my face every time. I like how he says "shot." :)

Obi-Dar Ke-Gnomie

12-15-2009, 11:33 PM

The Emperor had some great lines too. I'll have to watch Ep. 6 again to refresh my memory, but one of the most chillingly delivered lines was:

"Now, young Skywalker, you will die."

Just the way he said that line was so dark and creepy.

(On a side note, maybe Lord Maul can split the topics for us.)

Jedi-Loreen

12-15-2009, 11:51 PM

Wedge: "Great shot Janson!"

Brings a smile to my face every time. I like how he says "shot." :)

You got the quote right, but I had to correct the spelling of the name . ;)

Sunrider

12-16-2009, 11:49 AM

Waves hand; You don't want to sell me bone picks..... You want to go back and rethink those posts.;)

Nineteen

12-16-2009, 01:10 PM

You got the quote right, but I had to correct the spelling of the name . ;)

What are you talking about? I don't see anything misspelled... ;)

I do enjoy the whole conversation in Episode IV with Obi-Wan using Mind Trick. It's funny, and shows the power of the Force, really, for the first time in the movie. Classic scene.

Mi Gin Gonn

12-17-2009, 04:00 PM

You got the quote right, but I had to correct the spelling of the name . ;)

it's "good shot, Janson", not "great shot, Janson."

Jedi-Loreen

12-17-2009, 06:49 PM

D'oh.

I fail at correction. :p

DarthHideous

12-18-2009, 04:14 AM

Vader (ESB) "I'm altering the deal, pray I don't alter it any further."

Sorry guys for the late entry but I have been ill for a while.
Anyway, here's my favorite because you can insert the word "Pants"
to replace "Deal" and it still makes sense, funnier too.

Anternate: "I'm altering the pants, pray I don't alter them any further."

Invisas1979

12-18-2009, 06:44 AM

Let us examine this question. Why is it hard to give a straight answer? Because of the ambiguity of what, exactly, you are referring to by the word "Anakin."

First, consider the person in question. When he was born, his mother named him "Anakin." He was a slave. He was "rescued" by Qui-gon's bet. He became a jedi. He later turned to the dark side, and in doing so had his name changed to "Darth Vader."

Now despite these changes in "occupation" if you will, or even in name, the same person exists. He has the same body, the same memories, a continuous uninterrupted experience of life, etc.

The actual truth is, in turning to the dark side, this person has become evil.

Now consider the question, "Is Anakin evil."
If "Anakin" is defined as "This person before his name was changed to 'Darth Vader,'" the answer is, of course not.
If "Anakin" is defined as "This person's real name, no matter what he's called now," then yes, once he turned to the dark side, he is evil.

Notice that the actual truth is the same regardless: This person has turned to the dark side, and is evil.
The truth is solid.

What differs is what, exactly, one refers to as "Anakin." It is still opinion/personal preference that varies, not the actual fact. Expressing the same facts in different words does not change those facts. No matter how you say it, the fact remains that this person was good before he joined the dark side, and evil after.

It is crucial to be able to distinguish between fact and opinion.
For example, suppose a friend repaints their house a new color. The neighbor on one side thinks it's an improvement. The neighbor on the other side thinks it looks worse. But no matter what they think of it, the fact is still absolutely the same, for all people in all circumstances, that our friend's house is a different color now than it was before. (Yes, it is even true for the blind/colorblind: just because they don't know it or can't recognize it doesn't change the fact.)

And it is still absolutely true, for all people in all circumstances, that one of our friend's neighbors thinks the house looks better with the new color, and the other neighbor thinks it looks worse.

No matter how you express it, or even if you deny it, the truth remains the same, if you agree with it or not, if you like it or not, even if you know it or not. It is still impossible to have it otherwise. ;)

There is no actual (solid) Truth to this question it's a truth based on opinion.

Was/is Anakin/Darth Vader evil. I think the answer to this is no. Did he do evil things yes, did he eventually do a good thing, yes.

What makes a person evil, doing evil things or doing evil things without remorse.

Is palpatine evil, I'd say yes. He has no care for the people he kills or causes to be killed. No remorse and no redeeming qualities.

Now I think we should get of the truth solid sillyness.

Would I get killed if crossing the road with a bus coming? No.

Would I be able to say to a police officer I didn't rob that store and have him believe me? Yes I could.

You see it all depends on our point of view.....