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Crystal Chambers
12-02-2009, 06:18 AM
I bought the premium speaker and I'm running a US 2.5 and when the blade is illuminated it has a hiss to it that doesn't sound like it should be there. It doesn't blend with the blade sound it's just some white noise in the mix. It's not really bad but for the price of the card I wasn't really expecting it.
Is this normal?

It kinda reminds me of when your TV volume is up and your DVD player is low. It's like the sound files on the card are quiet and they're being over amplified to compensate.

FenderBender
12-02-2009, 07:39 AM
That doesn't sound normal to me. I've heard bad noise in some MRFX boards, but not yet in the US'.

Shadar Al'Niende
12-02-2009, 07:44 AM
Check your board connections. I had mine grounding against the hilt that caused some interference with the speaker...

good luck

Rhyen Skytracker
12-02-2009, 07:46 AM
I haven't had any problems with the US 2.5 either. Make sure the US board is not touching the hilt and grounding out somehow. Also check the speaker too, make sure the connections are not touching the hilt.

Shadar Al'Niende
12-02-2009, 07:47 AM
like i said...:rolleyes:

Crystal Chambers
12-02-2009, 07:55 AM
The card is totally cover in film case, the speaker is mounted with pvc coupler and there's absolutely no wires bare, touching or exposed. All solders we're near perfect in every way.

Maybe I'm just being picky, because it's only noticeable when you hold it close and listen critically. I have a "reverse sound" set-up and when I block off the pommel it muffles it a bit and sounds warmer to reduce the hiss but I don't wanna do that.

Shadar Al'Niende
12-02-2009, 08:03 AM
Hmmm, yeah dunno then. Maybe just got a funky board?

Crystal Chambers
12-02-2009, 08:24 AM
OMG...I hope not. The speaker would be no big deal but the sound board?..NooOOoo!

So there shouldn't be any hiss at all?
I even tried fresh batteries.

the black part of the board next to my switch pads is really hot, in just 10 sec

Novastar
12-02-2009, 08:57 AM
Try the electronics outside of the hilt & metal parts (of course with the exception of the heatsink!).

Shadar Al'Niende
12-02-2009, 08:59 AM
the black part of the board next to my switch pads is really hot, in just 10 sec

I had this when i accidentally had a solder bridge on the board...



*edit* what is your wiring setup, is it possible the board is bleeding off a lot of power? it might be giving the speaker a little more juice due to not being able to regulate the Voltage properly, what is your voltage and Led?

Crystal Chambers
12-02-2009, 09:01 AM
The board, batteries and speaker are all out.

Is that heat normal on my board? It's really hot in less then 10 second when the blade is active.

Shadar Al'Niende
12-02-2009, 09:20 AM
Now that we have chatted in the shoutbox, you are giving the board 6v for a P4 Blue which vf is about 3.2. 3v bleeding off the board as heat could cause that kind of heating to the board, on top of that i could see it causing the feedback in your speaker...someone more knowledgeable might chime in and tell me i'm wrong though :p

Jagahati
12-02-2009, 02:17 PM
See if it goes away when setup outside the hilt.

It could be some piece vibrating aginst the hilt. I had a saber sound funky when I used a film can to mount the speaker to. The can vibrated and made a hissing or rattling type sound against the inside of the pommel.

FenderBender
12-02-2009, 03:00 PM
now that we have chatted in the shoutbox, you are giving the board 6v for a p4 blue which vf is about 3.2. 3v bleeding off the board as heat could cause that kind of heating to the board, on top of that i could see it causing the feedback in your speaker...someone more knowledgeable might chime in and tell me i'm wrong though :p



ding ding ding!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D

Shadar Al'Niende
12-02-2009, 03:53 PM
Like we talked about, using a 2AA holder with a jumper and a rechargeable 3.7v cell would most likely be the best option for you at this point, try that out once your parts come in and let us know what happens!

Jedi-Loreen
12-02-2009, 04:59 PM
I don't know if the board will run at that low of a voltage. Minimum recommended is 4.8V, for that color P4. Remember, the board itself needs some power to run, as does the speaker.

Crystal Chambers
12-02-2009, 05:26 PM
...and my accent leds need a little too.

If US 2.5 recommends 6V how could that be wrong? It seems ridiculously simple to meet the requirements so this is making no sense to me.

Crystal Chambers
12-02-2009, 06:48 PM
Can anyone give me some solutions to this problem?

I also have a lux3 red/orange to do. Same problem?

A resistor maybe? If so which resistor? And that would just be wired into the power supply + lead right?

Please...help! I will be so rediculously great full. I would be glad to return the favour in graphic design or even some illustrating service.

Jagahati
12-02-2009, 07:42 PM
Now that we have chatted in the shoutbox, you are giving the board 6v for a P4 Blue which vf is about 3.2. 3v bleeding off the board as heat could cause that kind of heating to the board, on top of that i could see it causing the feedback in your speaker...someone more knowledgeable might chime in and tell me i'm wrong though :p

While I am by no means qualified to debate the effects of RF in a metal tube on audio quality. Nor am i able to tell anyone how much voltage through a regulator you can have and what if any effects that would have on sound quality. I still feel that A LOT of people use 7.4 volt Li-Ion setups with U.S. boards and do not see the same problems. I have 2 U.S. 2.1's both with 7.4V Li-Ion power cells, neither creates a hissing noise. One is a lux 3 Gree the other a lux 3 Red Orange.

I think we may be barking up the wrong tree on the over voltage diagnosis.

FenderBender
12-02-2009, 08:38 PM
The US 2.5s don't regulate voltage as well as the 2.0-2.1s. So, if you are above the recommended input voltage range for the LED that you are using it casts it off as heat instead of turning it into extra current.

Crystal Chambers
12-03-2009, 05:36 AM
LED choices:
1. Luxeon 3 all colors white/blue/green (1000mah)
2. Luxeon 3 red/amber/red-orange (1400mah)
3. Luxeon 5 (850mah)
4. Luxeon K2 (1500mah)
5. Luxeon 3 Overdrive (1200mah)
IMPORTANT! (be sure to select the correct LED type installed in your saber)

Battery input voltage:
Maximum for board = 9.6V
Minimum/Maximum for Luxeon 3, K2, P4 = 4.5V / 7.2V (6V recommended)
Minimum/Maximum for Luxeon 3,P4 Red/Amber = 4.8V / 6.0V
Minimum for Luxeon 5 = 7.2V
IMPORTANT! (be sure to use the correct voltage/power with corresponding LED type)

And notice the max board voltage is 9.6 so I should be well under. It has to be something else. Which is the correct setting for a blue p4?
This is just not adding up maybe I'm missing something like my wires to the p4 touch the star or possible bridge in the accent led aside from that I'm stumped.

Shadar Al'Niende
12-03-2009, 07:36 AM
While I am by no means qualified to debate the effects of RF in a metal tube on audio quality. Nor am i able to tell anyone how much voltage through a regulator you can have and what if any effects that would have on sound quality. I still feel that A LOT of people use 7.4 volt Li-Ion setups with U.S. boards and do not see the same problems. I have 2 U.S. 2.1's both with 7.4V Li-Ion power cells, neither creates a hissing noise. One is a lux 3 Gree the other a lux 3 Red Orange.

I think we may be barking up the wrong tree on the over voltage diagnosis.

I was referring more to the heat than the hiss but the hiss could be a side effect as well. Yes that is the recommended voltage on the board but you are still 3v over what the led needs, thus the heat....not sure what else to do...

Heaven knows i could be wrong...but it makes sense to me that the heat would come from over voltage, not that you would fry the board....yes that is the recommended, you just wanted to know why it heated up that fast...

Rhyen Skytracker
12-03-2009, 07:47 AM
One thing I have found on the US 2.5 is if you use a single 3.7V li-Ion it does not output enough voltage for blue and green LEDs. With 3.7 V in it puts out around 2.85V which is enough voltage for a red and amber LED. That said you lose about 1V across the board. I have used 6V on the US 2.5 several times and have not had any problems. Lately I have been using 4.8V (4 NiMH batteries) and they work fine too. If you are concerned that the excess voltage being what is causing the problem, use 4 NiMH batteries. That will give you 4.8Volts to the card and output around 3.8V which is barely over the LED forward voltage. Let me know how this works out for you.

Crystal Chambers
12-03-2009, 08:05 AM
thanks!....sounds promising.

So to recap I try 4 nimh AA 1.2 volts each total 4.8.....I now realise the minimum is 4.5 for p4 blue.

For a lux 3 red/orange...my second saber in the works. I would like to run the same set-up but that would end up with 1V extra right?

Rhyen Skytracker
12-03-2009, 08:13 AM
One extra volt should not generate too much heat. It is when you get 3 - 5 and above volts extra that you will run into problems.

Crystal Chambers
12-07-2009, 05:16 AM
Thanks again! Solved my overheating issue but not my speaker. I'm gonna have to do some testing to get this worked out it seems...

Ovlos
12-07-2009, 09:29 PM
Audio hisses like you're describing often are generated by an induced voltage of some kind on the wires running between speaker and audio source, or by a faulty connection at either the speaker or source.

I would take another look at your solder joints at both the speaker and the board for sure, if there's even a remote chance that the joint might be bad redo it.

As far as a possible induced voltage...the easiest way to check that is to pull the guts of your saber, move the speaker (and wires) as far away from any other component as possible and switch it on. If the hiss goes away, you've got an induced voltage. Simplest solution is to replace your existing audio wires with a shielded twisted pair, and make sure you ground the shield on both ends.

As a general rule, it's best to keep wires carrying audio signals away from higher voltage lines. Most audio signals are much lower voltage, and thus can be washed out or pick up unwanted sounds from the induction. Typically you hear a steady hiss from a DC induction, and a steady high pitched tone (like you hear when you take a hearing test) from an AC induction.

Jagahati, just for your own knowledge, the induction problem is typically caused by the magnetic field generated by an electric current. That's how generators and motors work. A generator spins a magnet inside a giant conductor, creating voltage as the magnetic field pass through it, while a motor does the opposite, the current generates a magnetic field which spins a magnet. RF most definitely can induce voltages as well, but in the case of a saber all but the most potent RF signals would either be reflected away or dispersed on the hilt. If you DID happen to put your saber into a strong enough RF signal to induce a voltage, you'd have other problems...

Like a microwaved hand :)

Crystal Chambers
12-16-2009, 11:41 AM
OK...sigh

Thanks for the excellent advice. I have learned so much lately and everyone has been so helpful. No more over heating but the slight hiss is still there. After investigating I couldn't see any reason for this. I picked up a magnifying stand with the handy little alligator clips and I can confidently say my solders are decent. Some have a little "mud" but are dominantly good. Clean, with no bridges or any means of shorting out. I have tried everything I can imagine. Inside and out of the hilt and then...yeah the solder pad tore off the speaker from exercising too much cram-fu. I managed to re-attach it as there was a small bit of pad left to solder to. After this I noticed a strange volume boost like a two tone doubled clash (for lack of a better description) and then all was good till I tried to put it back in the hilt and it went silent. I try to wire up another speaker but it appears to be toast..and no it is definitely not buttered.:sad:

Unless the sound is messed on my board, and I hope not for REALLY obvious reasons it seems I need a new speaker. Anyone know the specs or atleast something the US 2.5 will run that fits in MHS?

I'm really bummed. My hilt is super sweet with all the bells and whistles and the blade looks so bright. When I over come this I will have a seriously nice saber.

Ovlos
12-16-2009, 03:49 PM
Hmmm...

My first thought is that the broken solder pad on the speaker caused it to go bad when you turned the saber back on in the hilt. Repairing a pad is tricky at best, most of the time it's not worth the effort. So my first suggestion would be to get a new speaker from Tim to test that out. I'm assuming of course during reassembly that one of the speaker wires didn't come off the card, might get lucky :)

It is POSSIBLE that when you turned on your saber with the repaired speaker it spiked and fried the sound circuit on the card. Personally though I think it's more likely that the repaired speaker solder pad gave out on you. Some speakers have goofy requirements, so that may be why the speaker you tried didn't work.

I don't have any idea what the audio outputs on a US operate at unfortunately, but if you want to make sure the card isn't bad and know someone who has access to an oscilloscope it's easy enough to check. Audio signals typically look like a varying AC wave on an o-scope kind of like this:

http://ac3filter.net/files/docs/ac3filter_1_30b/pic_loudness/a_signal.png

Just unhook your speaker and connect the o-scope probe to the positive speaker wire and turn the saber on.

Wish I could help you more...

Sunrider
12-16-2009, 05:47 PM
Be patient relax .. oooooommmm .. now try to repair the board you could drill a small hole in the pcb where the pad tore off (&make sure there's nothing on the bottom side in the way). Get an axial lead part put through hole solder both ends & cut off. Ohm out broken trace to IC pin & connect a 32 gauge wire from the pin to the new pad. Take time to inspect all & try again. Any old computers laying around with a speaker?

Shadar Al'Niende
12-16-2009, 05:49 PM
...now try to repair the board...

Wait, there was something wrong with the board...i thought it was the speaker...

Crystal Chambers
12-16-2009, 06:39 PM
Yeah it was the speaker pad. That tore and after repairing it the speaker behaved strangely for a few seconds and later stopped working. I'm hoping that it was the speaker and not the board. I have another speaker for another saber that I'm working on that I can test or maybe use and replace, so I can try that over the weekend.
Fortunately I just noticed the chargers are back in stock so I have another order to make and can replace the speaker.

Crystal Chambers
12-19-2009, 09:30 AM
The update!

So I tryed another speaker.:(

Just kidding! The new speaker works so atleast I didn't fry my board. However...the slight hiss is still there. Due to some investivation I'm starting to believe..

a - this hiss is subtle and is part of the sound font itself so I'm just being picky.
b - The board has slight defect or I damaged it somehow.
c - a solder joints with up to 20% mud are weakening the connection.
d -(yeah I'm taking alot into consideration) The speaker wire should be shielded.

I'm almost ready to give up on perfecting this and it sounds fine unless you really listen closely so I think my final attempt would be shielded wires unless anyone has anymore theories that seem feasible.

If nothing else my powersupply issue had been fix and the problem solving tips shared are a educational contribution for all.. thanks a mill!:)

Sunrider
12-19-2009, 11:02 AM
You might try looking very close at the capacitors on the board (with magnifying glass). Look for cold solder joints (you can check resistance from component to board). Also look for cracked caps. The caps are the rectangle parts that are tan or brownish color in the middle. SMT caps are fairly fragile & can be damaged during cramming. ;)

Crystal Chambers
12-20-2009, 12:06 PM
The caps appear fine.

And...I broke another speaker.:( I had it all complete recharge port and all and ready to pack in but I think between strong solder joints and tight wiring, I snapped off the whole panel on the back of the speaker. The whole piece is still connected to the wires. I wish I could fix it but I'm going to order extra speakers with the order I'm placing now.
I was using a thin slice of PVC coupler to house the speaker but it's so tight in the MHS with four wires passing the outside and 2 on the other side so I think a new way to mount the speaker would prevent this from re-occurring...again. I'm now thinking mounting tape to the battery holder and maybe weather stripping and/or electrical tape around the edge of the speaker. Also with my soundboard on the battery pack and film case around it is a bit too tight so I'm thinking about lining the MHS with electrical tape and getting rid of the film cases.

Of coarse I'm still not getting off that easy as I my activation switch came loose and now I'm having trouble re-soldering it as it appears the soundboard pad needs to be cleaned up to get a good connection. It's blackened now so I'm guessing some flux, and cleaning might restore the connection there. This happened to my accent LED as well but I was lucky to be able to reconnect it despite the nasty looking solder pad.

Crystal Chambers
12-20-2009, 12:30 PM
I may need to do this for my switch pad. I'm learning quickly but still new to this so some of it is over my head.


Be patient relax .. oooooommmm .. now try to repair the board you could drill a small hole in the pcb where the pad tore off So I drill in the center of the pad where the hole used to be?

(&make sure there's nothing on the bottom side in the way). By nothing in the bottom you mean circuit board work? Or a battery pack?..lol

Get an axial lead part put through hole solder both ends & cut off. Not sure what you mean by axial lead part...if I understand this at all the result would be a wire passing right through the board with solder on both sides and leave a lead wire to attach to componant?

Ohm out broken trace to IC pin & connect a 32 gauge wire from the pin to the new pad. Take time to inspect all & try again. Any old computers laying around with a speaker?All I understand here is 32 gauge wire from the new pad to where? So the new pad needs a jumper wire to the board?

Sunrider
12-20-2009, 01:46 PM
If there is already a hole that thats all you need to put a small piece of metal through (a piece of solid wire that would fit through the hole should work). Then put a small solder ball on either end of the wire to secure the wire to the board. You will have to make the wire sit still & not move around in the hole so use something that barely fits in the hole usually the lead of a 2 watt resistor is tight fitting. Now you need to restore the connection to the trace that the pad tore from. Small gauge wire is best for this. You could scrape the green stuff off whats left of the broken trace & try to solder to it or for a more durable connection see where the trace goes & solder to the chip pin. If you can't visually see where the trace goes you will have to use an ohm meter to see where it goes. good luck :)

Jay-gon Jinn
12-21-2009, 03:58 PM
It sounds to me like you're over heating the solder pads on both the speaker and the soundboard. What type of iron are you using? Are you pre-tinning the wires before you attempt to solder them to the soundboard and speaker?

Crystal Chambers
12-21-2009, 05:55 PM
quite possible.
It's a 25 watt. and I am pre-tinning. I think the damage to the solder tabs on the board may have been from a bad tip that has been replaced and it was some bad cram-fu on the speaker. I'm using extra wire on my next attempt and rethinking the housing or mounting method a few times. I just ordered replacement speakers so I have time to figure that out.

Crystal Chambers
01-26-2010, 05:39 AM
oh..hehe I got it running again and now I just have to take my time and pack it all in carefully.

I was at a local builders yesterday and...

THE ULTRA SOUND DOES HAVE WHITE NOISE HISS! ....NORMALLY!

I can't believe everyone had me thinking something was wrong. Like I said earlier I wasn't sure If I was being picky, but apparently I'm the only one who noticed it? I really can't believe this.

I'm still content with the board as I finally got to compare in person the US 2.5 to a CF 4.?...Mokotosai(sp?), MR mace, and even economy hasbro.
All seem to have a variety of pros and cons. Overall I would say I'm content with US, gonna try a MR next and try to get my hands on a CF eventually.

Count Malik
01-26-2010, 03:39 PM
oh..hehe I got it running again and now I just have to take my time and pack it all in carefully.

I was at a local builders yesterday and...

THE ULTRA SOUND DOES HAVE WHITE NOISE HISS! ....NORMALLY!

I can't believe everyone had me thinking something was wrong. Like I said earlier I wasn't sure If I was being picky, but apparently I'm the only one who noticed it? I really can't believe this.

I'm still content with the board as I finally got to compare in person the US 2.5 to a CF 4.?...Mokotosai(sp?), MR mace, and even economy hasbro.
All seem to have a variety of pros and cons. Overall I would say I'm content with US, gonna try a MR next and try to get my hands on a CF eventually.

well thats good to hear that it works again... and second of all... lol:rolleyes:

Novastar
01-27-2010, 05:13 PM
In general... the white noise may be:

* Sound samples are too muddy. The white noise should have been removed at a software/firmware/programming level.

* The board's amplifier is doing too much work, and/or the samples are recorded/saved at such a low volume that the gain is turned up so high... you get amplification on the "normally barely audible" white noise.

This is actually a prime example of why I tell people (when recording/sampling/whatever for CF sounds)... to have their sound samples essentially "fill the waveform", or at least hit almost all of the peaks.

Crystal Chambers
01-27-2010, 06:05 PM
In general... the white noise may be:

* Sound samples are too muddy. The white noise should have been removed at a software/firmware/programming level.

* The board's amplifier is doing too much work, and/or the samples are recorded/saved at such a low volume that the gain is turned up so high... you get amplification on the "normally barely audible" white noise.

This is actually a prime example of why I tell people (when recording/sampling/whatever for CF sounds)... to have their sound samples essentially "fill the waveform", or at least hit almost all of the peaks.


Exactly! I think it's amplifying a low level sample/recording. Too bad that so much has gone into the US but this seems to have been overlooked. I have some experience in music, recording and production, and this is what I thought but being new to these products I needed to confirm with someone more experienced.

Novastar
01-30-2010, 01:42 AM
TELL me about it... lol

I mean... *I* do not have any kind of "degree" in sound and mixing... however...

* I learned a TRUCKLOAD on my own when I started mixing BOP I, back in 2005/2006...
* BOP II was yet another barrel of monkeys in frustration + learning & experience...
* I've always tinkered with sound files even back in high school and college, where I would mix a lot of 4-part harmonies... even a few sound effects... that sort of thing.

Crystal Focus came along and I thought it was so magnificent... I thought it just HAD to have some truly precise and well-mixed sound samples. Erv and I chatted, and... here it is today.

What I then learned in mixing my sound CDs was invaluable. Not only in the "neato sounds" department, but also from a technical standpoint with getting the right feel, tones, volume levels, and general control over distortion, pops & clicks and (of course)... looping zero-crossing points.

No matter how you slice it... sound is 50% (or more!) of a saber driver board that does light & sound. And even Lucas mentioned that he thinks his films would have been far less successful without Ben Burtt & good ol' Johnny Williams.

I agree 100%. :)

ANYHOW... sorry for the slight de-rail, but... yeah... I'm not certain what is causing the "hiss/white noise"... but whatever it is--it's something that doesn't REALLY need to be there.

It COULD be the speaker... but I personally know the specs on those things (I helped Tim AND Alex get hooked up with those suckers)... if it is the speaker, I'm a monkey's uncle. :D

[Joker's answer = "Well... it IS the speaker, Nova. Now let me see you hang by your tail..." ] :D