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cardcollector
11-23-2009, 08:01 AM
Edit edit edit!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Since the creation of this thread, a new soundboard has been released and a better way to wir it up with a pnp transistor has been discovered
Link is here; forums.thecustomsabershop.com/showthread.php?10288-2010-Electronic-Lightsaber-w-DVD-Tutorial

This setup works with all economy boards.
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I think that relay wiring is an untapped potential in the cheap sound board world.

This is a diagram for a force-action board
http://i564.photobucket.com/albums/ss85/sfer1_album/ForceActionRelayBuckPuck.jpg
Credit goes to sfer1

I don't understand relays yet (how to wire, how they work, which ones to use...), but if everyone would like to share what they know of relay wiring I think it would be very beneficial.

One topic to discuss, Can you use lux 5's with a relay...

Jedi-Loreen
11-23-2009, 11:06 AM
For one thing, you can't use a 4.8V battery pack. The buck puck needs a minimum of 5V to operate, 6V is best to give it.

Rhyen Skytracker
11-23-2009, 04:08 PM
Yep, J-Lo is corect. It would be best to use the 6V battery setup. Be careful not to go over 6V as it will fry the card. You can use either the 4 AAA battery pack or use a 5 NiMH battery pack.

cardcollector
11-25-2009, 09:26 PM
OK, here is another relay wiring diagram, the 5v radioshack relay was used.
http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i27/tchnopagan/Prevalence/th_illuminated2.jpg (http://s68.photobucket.com/albums/i27/tchnopagan/Prevalence/?action=view&current=illuminated2.jpg)

Credit goes to Darth Locke

sfer1
11-26-2009, 10:42 AM
I used it with a 4.8V battery pack (4 1.2V AAA rechargeable batteries) and it worked just fine.

Jedi-Loreen
11-26-2009, 10:46 AM
With a buck puck? Those won't run at such a low voltage.

Sunrider
11-26-2009, 12:24 PM
This sound like a case where a fixed 5v regulator would be good for driving the board & a 7.4v li ion pack for led.;)

Matt Thorn
11-27-2009, 05:46 AM
Earlier today I posted a simpler wiring diagram on another thread that uses a relay but not a Buckpuck. I don't really understand why people feel the need to put a Buckpuck into a low-budget saber. Anyway, here it is:
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_THBqz9vPciU/Sw8_rqzGJSI/AAAAAAAACdQ/myw0KIlzyiE/s800/CW_force_action_relay.png (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/KGrbhFDi4TgDO9i2Zy-oDw?feat=embedwebsite)
This is a diagram for a Force Action board, but it can be easily applied to a non-Force Action board.

Sunrider
11-27-2009, 08:50 AM
Don't you need a resistor on the LED without the buckpuck.;)

Matt Thorn
11-27-2009, 09:27 AM
Don't you need a resistor on the LED without the buckpuck.;)
It depends on the LED.

cardcollector
12-12-2009, 12:47 PM
Here is a new one I just made up
http://forums.thecustomsabershop.com/picture.php?albumid=62&pictureid=1227

This should work... I'm going to test it right now.

EDIT!!!
It works great.

cardcollector
12-17-2009, 09:20 PM
So here is a comparason Pic.

The one on the left is a BIN 2 amber running without a relay off of an economy board.
http://forums.thecustomsabershop.com/picture.php?albumid=62&pictureid=1233
The one on the right is a BIN 4 Amber running off of the same hasbro board with a Relay.

I adjusted the settings on my camera so the pics are real life accurate...

Matt Thorn
12-17-2009, 11:28 PM
So here is a comparason Pic.

The one on the left is a BIN 2 amber running without a relay off of an economy board.

The one on the right is a BIN 4 Amber running off of the same hasbro board with a Relay.

I adjusted the settings on my camera so the pics are real life accurate...
Wow! What a difference. How much of the difference is attributable to the relay, and how much to the BIN? I'm guessing the relay is what makes the big difference. I'll have to try it out.

Are those both Luxeon IIIs, or some other brand? I guess you know that both the Luxeon III and Luxeon V are scheduled to be discontinued on February 15, and the K2s have already been discontinued. They'll all be superseded by the Rebel line.

BTW, I love the nice, clean wiring diagram you made.

cardcollector
12-18-2009, 07:32 AM
Are those both Luxeon IIIs, or some other brand? I guess you know that both the Luxeon III and Luxeon V are scheduled to be discontinued on February 15, and the K2s have already been discontinued. They'll all be superseded by the Rebel line.

BTW, I love the nice, clean wiring diagram you made.

Yes they are lux III's and I know, I'm going to try to get a few (ok alot) of Amber and Cyann because I like the colors so much...

Thanks, I used the program "Dia", it is alot like MO Visio except it is free...
Super easy learning curve! Linkness http://dia-installer.de/index_en.html

Matt Thorn
12-18-2009, 08:16 AM
Thanks, I used the program "Dia", it is alot like MO Visio except it is free...
Super easy learning curve! Linkness http://dia-installer.de/index_en.html
Thanks for the link. Installing Linux programs on my Mac always leads to frustration and eventual abandonment, but after banging my head against Eagle, I'm willing to try anything. It seems like open source programs are always designed for open source programmers, and no one else. :rolleyes:

cardcollector
12-18-2009, 08:19 AM
Why do you have a mac in the first place...:rolleyes:

Hope it helps, I used (ok tried) to use Eagle too. It wasn't pretty...

Matt Thorn
12-18-2009, 08:41 AM
Why do you have a mac in the first place...:rolleyes:
Now, now, let's not start a PC vs. Mac flame war. ;)

Hope it helps, I used (ok tried) to use Eagle too. It wasn't pretty...
Sounds like my experience.

cardcollector
12-18-2009, 01:27 PM
I forgot to mention another bonus of the relay!

For those of you (like me) who hate the "flash on clash" or "flash on power up" strobe light effect...

The relay eliminates it...:D:cool:

Vos Malek
12-18-2009, 02:58 PM
I forgot to mention another bonus of the relay!

For those of you (like me) who hate the "flash on clash" or "flash on power up" strobe light effect...

The relay eliminates it...:D:cool:

Really? The one I wired still has the clash flash and on/off strobe..
I'm using a soundboard out an anakin force action saber and a reed relay from radioshack. A dooku board I had did it too, before it fried anyway.

Matt Thorn
12-18-2009, 06:44 PM
I forgot to mention another bonus of the relay!

For those of you (like me) who hate the "flash on clash" or "flash on power up" strobe light effect...

The relay eliminates it...:D:cool:
That's great. It must be the relay you're using. Do you have a link or product number?

cardcollector
12-18-2009, 07:04 PM
It's the one you recommended...
Mouser link
http://mouser.com/ProductDetail/Tyco-Electronics/JWS-117-1/?qs=3fkvfLUozgN8mXyG9AI6JA%3d%3d

As for you Vos Malek...
I honestly think that
1. You took your battery positive and sliced it for the LED positive
2. you wired it incorrectly (easy to do, the first time I wired it in backwards...)

I have an accent LED wired directly to the LED and that one flashes a little, But the main one is powered off of the batts.

Matt Thorn
12-18-2009, 07:56 PM
It's the one you recommended...
Oh. Nevermind. :oops:

I've used relays in other setups, but still haven't tried it with the cheap Hasbro boards. I'll give it a go. Thanks.

Vos Malek
12-19-2009, 07:00 AM
As for you Vos Malek...
I honestly think that
1. You took your battery positive and sliced it for the LED positive
2. you wired it incorrectly (easy to do, the first time I wired it in backwards...)

I have an accent LED wired directly to the LED and that one flashes a little, But the main one is powered off of the batts.

I figured it out. I wired it right. I just used a resistor instead of a buckpuck on this one, so I had to splice the negative off the battery pack. :)

Dakarn
12-25-2009, 08:35 AM
Here is a new one I just made up
http://forums.thecustomsabershop.com/picture.php?albumid=62&pictureid=1227

This should work... I'm going to test it right now.

EDIT!!!
It works great.

I'm rusty with my schematics so bear with me.

Is there a resistor between the relay and the LED on the positive wire?

Matt Thorn
12-25-2009, 08:46 AM
I'm rusty with my schematics so bear with me.

Is there a resistor between the relay and the LED on the positive wire?
Yes, but it can be on either side of the LED (+ or -), and depending on the LED and battery setup, you may not need a resistor at all.

Dakarn
12-25-2009, 09:04 AM
Yes, but it can be on either side of the LED (+ or -), and depending on the LED and battery setup, you may not need a resistor at all.

Thanks, I'm doing the same setup as cardcollector using the Darth Vader Force Action boards so the schematic is exactly what I was looking for.

vargose
12-28-2009, 09:34 AM
Keep an eye on the relays. I just had to replace one.

Vos Malek
12-28-2009, 09:52 AM
Keep an eye on the relays. I just had to replace one.

What kind did you use?

cardcollector
12-28-2009, 02:54 PM
Keep an eye on the relays. I just had to replace one.

I broke one of these when soldering to it. They aren''t that sturdy.

But I mounted mine to the heatsink and I think it is pretty safe.

Matt Thorn
12-28-2009, 04:27 PM
If you plan to do some serious action, it would be best to mount the relay to a PCB and affix the PCB inside the hilt.

cardcollector
12-28-2009, 05:52 PM
Thought I'd post this wiring diagram here too.
It is the same one as before except with an accent LED added.

http://forums.thecustomsabershop.com/picture.php?albumid=62&pictureid=1250

I highly reccomend the TCSS 4 wire connector for any setup using an accent LED...

Shadar Al'Niende
01-02-2010, 01:22 PM
Is this the relay (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062478) that I would want when running a force action board and 6v's?

Or Could i simply run it like this.....

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x116/TaiDashan/BrandonsSaberWiring.jpg

*edit* In retrospect and a helpful reminder... :oops: the voltage drops by about 1v across the board IIRC and so the proper resistor would actually be listed as so... right?

http://led.linear1.org/diagram.png.php?q=cmVkIHZpb2xldCBnb2xkIDUgMy4zIDcw MCAyLjcgCjEuMyBXYXR0IGNhcGFibGU=

Vos Malek
01-02-2010, 04:46 PM
If you are running the led directly off the board, like in your diagram, you don't need a resistor at all. The board puts out a little higher voltage than vf for the led, but not too much. The board only puts out around 350ma on 6 volts, which is why I recommend trying a Cree or maybe even the new single Rebels. They are designed to run on this low current. You only need the resistor or buckpuck if you use a relay setup.

Shadar Al'Niende
01-02-2010, 09:31 PM
vf on the led is 3.3 and input voltage is 6v's, are you saying there is over a 2v drop across the board?! whoa...

Vos Malek
01-02-2010, 09:55 PM
Eh. I don't know exactly what the voltage drop is. Unfortunately my multimeter crapped out and I've been too lazy to buy a replacement. I can tell you that it works fine without a resistor though. I've done it a couple of times,and Ryhen makes practically all of his sabers this way.

cardcollector
01-02-2010, 10:06 PM
I don't know what the voltage drop is across the hasbro board (and don't have one to test at the monment...

BUT, I do know I have used your setup before with no resistor and haven't had any problems.

cardcollector
01-18-2010, 03:15 PM
Ouch- Double post... But I think the Info is worth it.

I have been doing more research and testing with relay's and have good news and bad news.

I have found that the current relay (the one listed in my first post), It isn't quite up to par...
-the switching current (the current it takes to activate the relay) is .25A. That is fine in our case. (good news)
- However, the carry current (the output of current the the LED) is only .5A. I have verified this with my multimeter. So while 500ma is better than 350ma it isn't ideal. Especially not $5 worth. (bad news)-The must operating voltage is 3.75V. (news)

So, an ideal relay would be this. (for use in our hasbro boards)
-Switching current: .35A or less.
-Carry Current: 1A or more
-Operating voltage: 6 volts or less.
- must be SPST or SPDT

I have looked around and haven't found any... yet. I checked out mouser, and they don't have relay's we need (seriously, I looked at ever relay they had.)

So if you think you found a good relay, post it.
And so the quest begins...

Shadar Al'Niende
01-18-2010, 05:28 PM
*update* everyone is correct, wired it up sans resistor and it works perfectly!! :D

Azryel
02-09-2010, 03:43 PM
Just wondering if anyone has had any luck finding a decent relay similar to the one cardcollector said would be the ideal one? I'd really like to power my P4 on my econo board closer to it's fullest potential, but if all we can find is a relay that only kicks it up to 500ma I think I'll let it slide. Doesn't really seem worth it to me.

FenderBender
02-09-2010, 03:57 PM
Try it direct off of the board, you'll be suprised.

Azryel
02-09-2010, 04:02 PM
I think that's what I'll end up doing. But with all the reading I've been doing I figured if I could find an easy way to up the ma from the 350 that the hasbro board puts out I might as well do it. What can I say... I'm a bit of a brightness whore.

cardcollector
02-09-2010, 08:43 PM
Try it direct off of the board, you'll be suprised.

Fender is right, those p4's are really bright at 350 ma. (and pretty if I might add);)

Matt Thorn
02-09-2010, 10:47 PM
Just wondering if anyone has had any luck finding a decent relay similar to the one cardcollector said would be the ideal one? I'd really like to power my P4 on my econo board closer to it's fullest potential, but if all we can find is a relay that only kicks it up to 500ma I think I'll let it slide. Doesn't really seem worth it to me.
"Carry current" of the kind cardcollector talked about is only an issue on solid-state relays, if I'm not mistaken. A basic mechanical or reed relay creates very little resistance, so the drop in current is negligible. In short, I don't see where the problem is.

Dakarn
02-10-2010, 08:15 AM
Out of curiousity and an incomplete understanding of buckpucks - could I reed relay then put a 1000ma buckpuck between the relay and LED in order to get it to 1000ma?

Asking because I happen to have a 1000ma buckpuck, reed relay and am getting ready to wire up my sinktube saber.

Shadar Al'Niende
02-13-2010, 02:12 PM
I don't think it would be a good idea to do it that way, could be wrong though...

cardcollector
02-15-2010, 07:09 AM
Out of curiousity and an incomplete understanding of buckpucks - could I reed relay then put a 1000ma buckpuck between the relay and LED in order to get it to 1000ma?

Asking because I happen to have a 1000ma buckpuck, reed relay and am getting ready to wire up my sinktube saber.

No, because the board is only giving out 350ma.

If ou were to do that you would have to use two relays...

Sunrider has found a new relay that will work great!!!

Here this one should work. Good size too.:)

http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=255-2255-ND

Oops that one is latching. Here's a normal one.

http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=255-2740-ND

Jordandau
02-24-2010, 11:47 PM
I am totally and completely lost. I went to my local electronic store and picked up a relay (r56-1d 5-6d) which the guy suggested when I told him that it had to be:

-Switching current: .35A or less.
-Carry Current: 1A or more
-Operating voltage: 6 volts or less.
- must be SPST or SPDT

I just brought it home and am trying to wire it up. It has 8 posts on it and nothing is labeled. When I hookup the battery to two legs that are closest to each other, I can get a small reading from the next two closest on the same side. When I try it with the board, it gives me a strange beep. I think I'm in over my head. I've tried a million different combinations of how to hook it up and I'm lost. I'm not asking for a walk-through, just maybe point out what the legs do and how they relate to each other.

Matt Thorn
02-25-2010, 12:25 AM
I am totally and completely lost. I went to my local electronic store and picked up a relay (r56-1d 5-6d) which the guy suggested when I told him that it had to be:

-Switching current: .35A or less.
-Carry Current: 1A or more
-Operating voltage: 6 volts or less.
- must be SPST or SPDT

I just brought it home and am trying to wire it up. It has 8 posts on it and nothing is labeled. When I hookup the battery to two legs that are closest to each other, I can get a small reading from the next two closest on the same side. When I try it with the board, it gives me a strange beep. I think I'm in over my head. I've tried a million different combinations of how to hook it up and I'm lost. I'm not asking for a walk-through, just maybe point out what the legs do and how they relate to each other.
The best thing to do is to track down the datasheet for it, which should not be too difficult. Just Google the part number and, if you have it, the manufacturer name.

It looks a lot like the Omron LAD1 relays I often use (though they have been discontinued), so the wiring may be the same. This wiring diagram is for a completely different project, but it should give you an idea of how your relay might need to be wired. Basically, the power from the original LED leads from the board connect to the inner posts, whereas the wire that completes the direct-drive circuit from the battery pack to your high-power LED connect to the outer posts. Note that these relays usually have a polarity, so try + and - on both of the inner posts. And since you probably can't tell front from back, try both sides. You will only need to use the four posts on one of the two sides of the relay.
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_THBqz9vPciU/S4YkNhoGI5I/AAAAAAAAD-Y/kKW84p05c24/s400/joejedi-lux3.png (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/URzU5lKuTfzuF994OF_gbg?feat=embedwebsite)

Caine Drathul
03-01-2010, 02:02 AM
Just hooked up mine with the Radio Shack 5V reed relay, and all worked great. I had an accent LED wired to the board, and it did the flash on clash effect, but not the blade...so that worked out rather well.

Thanks to all that contributed to this thread. Going to be putting one of these boards in my nephew's birthday saber.

cardcollector
03-01-2010, 01:40 PM
Excellent Caine! This is for the new 2010 boards correct?

Caine Drathul
03-04-2010, 01:05 AM
Excellent Caine! This is for the new 2010 boards correct?

It's for the one that was in the dual saber Sith set (the one that has a smaller light up only saber that fits inside the bigger saber)...not the ones that have been discussed thoroughly in these threads (originally the one that I thought was the one mentioned, hehe).

But whatever the case, it works rather well.

Halcyon, K
03-16-2010, 09:19 AM
I picked up this relay for my lux iii + hasbro setup. 1st question, will this work? (http://htyp.org/275-0240_Radio_Shack_5-volt_relay) I just saw 5v relay and I'm not quite sure about the specs. My second question is, can someone point me to a wiring diagram? I do not really understand the schematic on the packaging. I think it means that the pole by itself is half of the switch, but I'm not sure.

Caine Drathul
03-16-2010, 11:33 PM
I picked up this relay for my lux iii + hasbro setup. 1st question, will this work? (http://htyp.org/275-0240_Radio_Shack_5-volt_relay) I just saw 5v relay and I'm not quite sure about the specs. My second question is, can someone point me to a wiring diagram? I do not really understand the schematic on the packaging. I think it means that the pole by itself is half of the switch, but I'm not sure.


I am not sure if this will work or not because there isn't enough poles on the relay itself it looks like. Check out the rest of this thread for another 5V one that Radio Shack sells that would work for sure.

Halcyon, K
03-17-2010, 07:28 AM
Thanks. I was afraid of that. Suits me right for impulse buying.

Et Kin Evenstar
03-17-2010, 08:20 AM
Hope this newbie helping does not screw you up more! I had to figure this out also and if *I* can anyone can!

You need something like this:

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062478

I've used it with a hasbro board and lux 3.

Run the + power wire off the board to the middle pole that is "between" the other 2 on the side. Then run the +/- LED wires off the board to either of the coils to the side. So + LED wire to one, - LED wire to the other. Then run the pole on the other side to a resistor which connects to the + wire off the lux 3.

When you power up the +/- wires off the board connected to the relay's coils will cause the "bridge to go down" so the power will flow to the Lux.

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it! ;-)

noslenpar
03-17-2010, 01:00 PM
There's another thread where this was also discussed here:
http://forums.thecustomsabershop.com/showthread.php?p=163136#post163136

I'm using the JWS-117-1 (http://my.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Tyco-Electronics-PB/JWS-117-1/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMv4tz1TW/ArE4mGdvW5WwrPkzLj6m0m3UI=) relay from mouser on a new 2010 Hasbro Anikan and it seems to work fine.

Dalesabers
03-18-2010, 05:37 PM
noob question but what are reed relays used for?

Et Kin Evenstar
03-18-2010, 06:37 PM
noob question but what are reed relays used for?

So the main LED powers on/off with the sound etc.

cardcollector
03-18-2010, 07:26 PM
noob question but what are reed relays used for?

A little searching would've answered your question...

OK, when you use a hasbro board, your two LED wires only give off 100-350ma, depending on what board you use.

So, knowing that a nice LED needs a good 700-1000ma to be fully powered, you would want to have some cheap sound with a bright LED

That's where a relay comes in.

A relay allows the Hasbro board to be powered by the battery, and allows the LED to have full acess to the main Battery. That is why you use a resistor, because the LED will be running off of 3-6V and an unknown amount of current.

Silent_Jedi
04-02-2010, 06:17 PM
Yes, but it can be on either side of the LED (+ or -), and depending on the LED and battery setup, you may not need a resistor at all.

What resistor should be used? I plan on running it off a 4 AAApack and a p4 white.

Borax
04-02-2010, 06:35 PM
Look here

http://www.thecustomsabershop.com/wiringbuilder/wiring.aspx

Matt Thorn
04-03-2010, 08:41 AM
What resistor should be used? I plan on running it off a 4 AAApack and a p4 white.
http://www.thecustomsabershop.com/wiringbuilder/wiring.aspx

Silent_Jedi
04-04-2010, 11:22 AM
Thanks :) I forgot we even had that. Would something of the same wattage but higher ohms work or be harmful? It says I need a 5 watt 1.5 ohms resistor, but I do have some 5 watt 2.2 ohms and 5 watt 3.3 ohms resistors that came with the LED kits.

Matt Thorn
04-04-2010, 07:30 PM
Thanks :) I forgot we even had that. Would something of the same wattage but higher ohms work or be harmful? It says I need a 5 watt 1.5 ohms resistor, but I do have some 5 watt 2.2 ohms and 5 watt 3.3 ohms resistors that came with the LED kits.
The Seoul P4 Pure White has a maximum forward voltage of 4V, and can probably be safely overdriven at 1200 mA. If you calculate it with those numbers, you'll see you can use a lower wattage resistor (http://led.linear1.org/1led.wiz?VS=6;VF=4;ID=1200). I think you can get away with a 2.5-Watt or 3-Watt resistor, but if you go over 2 Ohms, you'll probably get dimmer results.

Darth Zion
04-07-2010, 06:21 PM
I after reading through these post am still lost. I want to run a green Lux 3 off a 1000ma buck puck useing a set of 3.7 lith-ion but I still want to run a hasbro board. So what relay should I be looking for and which wire diagram should I use.

Jordandau
04-07-2010, 06:42 PM
So I did this with the transistor setup, but I left the batteries in and they died. Does this setup suck a little juice over time, should I install a kill switch? Or were my batteries just done for.

P.S. I'm using 4 regular alk AAs.

cardcollector
04-08-2010, 04:58 AM
I after reading through these post am still lost. I want to run a green Lux 3 off a 1000ma buck puck useing a set of 3.7 lith-ion but I still want to run a hasbro board. So what relay should I be looking for and which wire diagram should I use.

What exactly do you need help on? there are wiring diagrams that work in the first post, and the relay links in there too.


So I did this with the transistor setup, but I left the batteries in and they died. Does this setup suck a little juice over time, should I install a kill switch? Or were my batteries just done for.

P.S. I'm using 4 regular alk AAs.

I have found that wih all hasbro boards, if you leave the batts in, they will die.
You could install a kill key, but for the same amount of trouble you could install a recharge fuction.

I usually just take the batteries out when I'm not using the saber...

Darth Zion
04-08-2010, 05:23 AM
[QUOTE=cardcollector;166072]What exactly do you need help on? there are wiring diagrams that work in the first post, and the relay links in there too.


All the wire diagram show useing 6v but with the setup I want to use it will be up to 7.4v. So will that make a dif on the choice of relay.

cardcollector
04-08-2010, 05:25 AM
Not Necessarily, just use a 5V regulator, you will need to do that anyway because a hasbro board can only take 6V.

Super Bill
05-06-2010, 10:00 AM
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g45/SuperBill47374/Lightsaberwire.png

cardcollector
05-06-2010, 03:38 PM
You will need a 5V regulator or else magical blue smoke will come from your board upon activation...

Jedi-Loreen
05-06-2010, 06:24 PM
You also don't have the switch hooked up all the way, only the LED for the switch.

Darth Nemesis
06-02-2010, 05:25 PM
Alright i've tried to refrain from asking stupid questions but i'm really stumped now. I'm useing the Force Action Eco Board, red lux3, radioshack reed relay,6v battery and resistor setup and no matter how i wire the darn thing I can't seem to get rid of the start up clash and flash clash.
Here's some pics of my setup;
http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad41/darthnemesis/IMG_0154.jpg
http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad41/darthnemesis/IMG_0152.jpg
http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad41/darthnemesis/IMG_0155.jpg
I know i'm probly just being really stupid, hopefully a master can school me!

Matt Thorn
06-02-2010, 06:29 PM
Alright i've tried to refrain from asking stupid questions but i'm really stumped now. I'm useing the Force Action Eco Board, red lux3, radioshack reed relay,6v battery and resistor setup and no matter how i wire the darn thing I can't seem to get rid of the start up clash and flash clash.
Here's some pics of my setup;
http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad41/darthnemesis/IMG_0154.jpg
http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad41/darthnemesis/IMG_0152.jpg
http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad41/darthnemesis/IMG_0155.jpg
I know i'm probly just being really stupid, hopefully a master can school me!
The reason is quite simple. The relay is being activated by the power from the leads on the soundboard that originally led to the toy's LEDs. So the relay reproduces the flashing.

One thing you could do is drop the relay and use a DPDT momentary switch to turn the board and the main LED on separately (but simultaneously). To do this, you would need to put either a Lighthound or Pololu PCB between the momentary DPDT and the main LED, otherwise the main LED would only be on when you are holding down the momentary switch. The Lighthound or Pololu PCB makes the momentary switch act like a latching switch. Push the button once, and the light turns on; push it again, and the light turns off. Search for "Lighthound" or "Pololu" for more details.

Darth Nemesis
06-02-2010, 07:22 PM
Thanks for the quick response Matt! The DPDT does sound like a good option for me, I will look into it further.:)
Just curious, earlier in this thread Cardcollector stated that the relay got rid of the flash clash. Was it just that specific relay that was being used,
http://mouser.com/ProductDetail/Tyco-Electronics/JWS-117-1/?qs=3fkvfLUozgN8mXyG9AI6JA%3d%3d,
or is my wireing just messed up?

Matt Thorn
06-02-2010, 07:52 PM
Thanks for the quick response Matt! The DPDT does sound like a good option for me, I will look into it further.:)
Just curious, earlier in this thread Cardcollector stated that the relay got rid of the flash clash. Was it just that specific relay that was being used,
http://mouser.com/ProductDetail/Tyco-Electronics/JWS-117-1/?qs=3fkvfLUozgN8mXyG9AI6JA%3d%3d,
or is my wireing just messed up?
I never did figure out what CardCollector meant when he said he eliminated the flash-on-clash. Looking at his diagram, the relay is controlled by the outputs from the soundboard, which is the origin of the flashing. So if the board sends a flashing signal, the relay should also send a flashing signal to the main LED. Perhaps CardCollector can clarify.

Another solution to getting the brightest results with a cheap Hasbro board is using a high-capacity transistor instead of a relay. This has been discussed at length elsewhere (on the 2010 Electronic Lightsaber thread, I believe). Adding capacitors might "soften", if not completely eliminate, the flashing.

Noyl Wendor
06-02-2010, 08:11 PM
Howdy. You had said earlier in this thread that the schematic you set up (without buckpuck) could be applied to other boards.
I just got the 2010 Obi cheap hasbro, would that set up with the Reed relay work.
Last how do I know what connections to put the wires from the board on the relay?

Darth Nemesis
06-02-2010, 08:51 PM
Thanks Matt again. I was a little confused there. I like the PNP transistor setup thats on the 2010 board way better, and the 2010 board is a big improvement too. Just had to see if getting rid of the flash was that easy.:)

cardcollector
06-06-2010, 10:07 AM
I never did figure out what CardCollector meant when he said he eliminated the flash-on-clash. Looking at his diagram, the relay is controlled by the outputs from the soundboard, which is the origin of the flashing. So if the board sends a flashing signal, the relay should also send a flashing signal to the main LED. Perhaps CardCollector can clarify.

Another solution to getting the brightest results with a cheap Hasbro board is using a high-capacity transistor instead of a relay. This has been discussed at length elsewhere (on the 2010 Electronic Lightsaber thread, I believe). Adding capacitors might "soften", if not completely eliminate, the flashing.

I most certainly will, if not a little late from being out of town...
When I used the relay (in my first post) that annoying strobing effect you get when the clash sensor is activated doesn't appear. I have found this works only for the "force action" sabers.

When you use a PNP transistor, to me, it seems the blade flickers and blinks instead of completely stobing on-off-on effect.



Howdy. You had said earlier in this thread that the schematic you set up (without buckpuck) could be applied to other boards.
I just got the 2010 Obi cheap hasbro, would that set up with the Reed relay work.
Last how do I know what connections to put the wires from the board on the relay?

The relay won't work with this board as far as I know because the board doesn't give out enough ma to activate the relay. You will have to stick with the transistor.

Noyl Wendor
06-06-2010, 11:30 AM
I just got done wiring my P4 to the cheapy Obi-board (Hasbro). I used the reed relay and it seems to work just fine. The blade is still very bright.
That said I would like to try with the transistor and see if there is a difference.

Edit: I did also use the existing resistor. 3.3 ohm 5 watt
I'm running 6v (4AAA) for a P4 (green) through the 2010 Obi-wan sound board, using a reed relay and no transistor.

cardcollector
06-06-2010, 12:29 PM
Very interesting! Would you like to mulitmeter the ma that your LED is getting?

Also, which relay did you decide to use?

I read back through this thread and was severly wrong about the relay and the 2010 board. My apologies...

Noyl Wendor
06-06-2010, 12:55 PM
Sure. Though I will have to borrow my neighbors again :0 . The relay I used was a Radio Shack SPST 5vdc Reed Relay. When I figure out how to post a link to it I'll put it in.
I did get a little help from someone who also is in the forums who lives in the same town, he is going to use the same (almost) set up for his Hasbro Obi-wan. Had to go over it with him on the phone. Not sure if he has put a multimeter to it yet.

Dakarn
06-06-2010, 02:42 PM
The Radio Shack Reed Relay works fine. The potential issue that was mentioned is that it could potentially blow out since its 6v but I've had one hooked up in a saber or on the bench and haven't had any issues with it at all.

Its an easy, accessible and cheap solution to the 2010 board.

Noyl Wendor
06-06-2010, 02:55 PM
Has anyone used this set up with a transistor? I saw the wiring diagrams in other threads, this one too. But have not heard (read) the results of using a transistor vs a reed relay.

cardcollector
06-07-2010, 09:22 AM
It seems what needs to happen is comparing the brightness of a relay versus the transistor...

*going to check my stock...*

EDIT!
So, I have 2 green Lux III's, two 2010 soundboards (same model), and the transistor and relay...
I am going to hook it all up to a 4.5V of power this evening. Hopefully I'll be able to post the results tommorrow...

Darth Nemesis
06-07-2010, 06:01 PM
Thanks for doing the research for everyone on this issue CardCollector. I also have been curious to which one is brighter but don't have a PNP yet.

cardcollector
06-08-2010, 05:46 AM
Alrighty then, here is what I found...
these results are from a 2010 Hasbro board, and a Lux III green.

I started with the relay. I used a radio shack relay.
@ 4.5V the LED was getting 530ma
@3.0V the LED was getting 150ma

Then I switched to the PNP transistor, also bought at radio shack.
@4.5V the LED was getting 435ma
@3V the LED was getting 160ma

Hope that helps everyone. Not exactly the best results, so if any has a solution feel free to chime in.

dj2rbo
06-09-2010, 01:08 PM
Thanks for that cardcollector. I used a 18650 li ion with a obi board and a pnp rs trans and was getting 435 ma on a blue p4, just like yours. The thing is with this set up is my runtime is like two to three hours!!! And still wasn't going below 3 volts. Imo if you convince yourself to be happy with the brightness the board will suit you Just fine. I hope someone out there would find a transistor that works better, basically it shouldn't restrict the ma. One question I have is the ma output depends on how many negative leads you have connected on the trans base . The lower number the leads for negative you have, the lower the ma, what would happen if you use a npn type transistor where you give it positive voltage to work? Last is would it be possible to give the base more negative voltage from the battery and just use a kill switch somehow? Probably not.

cardcollector
06-09-2010, 03:18 PM
Thanks for contributing dj2rbo, it is good to have two readings that are the same. :cool:

and to prove to me my multimeter is working properly...;)

Also, A Lx III runnig at 435 ma isn't dim. It is nice and bright, realize that for a $20 soundboard there are going to be some drawbacks...
I think it is worth it.

Darth Nemesis
06-09-2010, 06:07 PM
Also, A Lx III runnig at 435 ma isn't dim. It is nice and bright, realize that for a $20 soundboard there are going to be some drawbacks...
I think it is worth it.

Agreed CardCollector, the red lux III i have hooked up with a relay is alot brighter then i expected it would be running only at 435 ma! And like you said not a bad option if money is tight. For me sound really brings the saber to life, without I just mime the sound in my head.:lol:

Noyl Wendor
06-09-2010, 08:56 PM
Cool. Thats good to know. I'll be checking my P4 (green) Obi board set up this weekend. I'll let you know what sort of ma I get out of it.
I'm guessing its going to run the same as some of the before mentioned results.

Darth Noob
06-14-2010, 11:45 PM
I know im a insurmountable noob for asking this question and it probably was answered in this thread (i have read it all) but i dont understand most of what you all are talking about, but i just need to know if this set up would work without a resistor, and if not what kind of resistor do i need to get. sorry for wasting your time, but i just need to start somewhere, ya know.

Darth Nemesis
06-15-2010, 12:05 AM
Hello Darth Noob and welcome to the forum! Now to answer your question, assuming you are useing standard AAA that carry 1.5V each, you need a 3.3 Ohm 5 Watt resistor or you can chose to use a 1000mA BuckPuck. I found these results here, http://www.thecustomsabershop.com/wiringbuilder/wiring.aspx, from a link on the main TCSS site.

Once again welcome. This is a very Do It Yourself forum, a little reading can go a long way. To get started check,

Here http://forums.thecustomsabershop.com/showthread.php?p=108682&posted=1#post108682

And here, http://forums.thecustomsabershop.com/showthread.php?t=6524

And also here, http://forums.thecustomsabershop.com/showthread.php?t=553

MTFBWY, Nemesis;)

Matt Thorn
06-15-2010, 12:25 AM
Welcome, Darth Noob.

As Darth Nemesis noted, strictly speaking, you should use a 3.3 Ohm resistor, rated for 3.3 Watts or higher, if you are using a 6V battery pack. That should give the LED the 1000mA it is designed for. But you can overdrive it a bit, getting brighter results. They are people here more qualified than I to say just how much the White P4 can be overdriven (I've only used one once), but I would say you could safely go with a 2.7 Ohms, and maybe even 2.2 Ohms. A 5 Watt rated resistor is BIG, and may not be necessary. You can probably get away with a 3 Watt resistor, but it might get pretty hot.

A 4-wire, 1000mA BuckPuck is a less risky, more reliable alternative to a resistor, but it is also more expensive and takes up more room inside the hilt.

Darth Noob
06-15-2010, 09:58 AM
Thanks, for the welcome and all those helpful links! so, just to be clear, would i put the buck puck in place of the reed relay or somewhere else on the wire?

Matt Thorn
06-15-2010, 03:59 PM
Thanks, for the welcome and all those helpful links! so, just to be clear, would i put the buck puck in place of the reed relay or somewhere else on the wire?
No, you would need the reed relay to trigger the BuckPuck and keep it running. Search the "Cutaway views and wiring schematics" section for "buckpuck relay", and you should find some helpful diagrams.

Darth Nemesis
06-15-2010, 04:21 PM
Listen to Matt you must Noob, as he knows way better then I.:)
Just wanted to say that in the first post, on the first page, of this here thread we happen to be posting in is a excellent diagram posted by CardCollector useing the 1000mA Buck Puck for this setup!

Darth Noob
06-15-2010, 04:55 PM
All right, thanks! i think i know exactly what i need now! Ill post when Ive finished and tell you how it went!

Noyl Wendor
06-21-2010, 11:17 AM
Okay so I have re-read all that I could before posing this idea (s).
If I am using 4 AAA(4.8v) bats> the 2010 Obi board reed relay > P4 (Blue) would I even need the resistor?
I wonder, based on space issues. Having no resistor to deal with would save a ton of room.
Second, I am considering getting rid of the white sensor mounted on the Obi board (clash/flash). In the interest of space. For that I would need to install a "jumper" to complete the circut.
Last I am considering mounting Tim's swing sensor directly to the board. In the interest of space.
Ideas? So far I am not seeing too many problems, but second opinions are more than welcome.

Matt Thorn
06-21-2010, 03:44 PM
Okay so I have re-read all that I could before posing this idea (s).
If I am using 4 AAA(4.8v) bats> the 2010 Obi board reed relay > P4 (Blue) would I even need the resistor?
I wonder, based on space issues. Having no resistor to deal with would save a ton of room.
Second, I am considering getting rid of the white sensor mounted on the Obi board (clash/flash). In the interest of space. For that I would need to install a "jumper" to complete the circut.
Last I am considering mounting Tim's swing sensor directly to the board. In the interest of space.
Ideas? So far I am not seeing too many problems, but second opinions are more than welcome.
There's a separate thread for the 2010 boards, if you haven't seen it yet. As for the resistor, try it without...but don't complain to us if you end up frying the P4. ;) You're going to eliminate the clash sensor and therefore the clash sound effects? That would be an incredible waste of a 2010 board. :( It sounds like you are desperate to save every square millimeter you can. In that case, you could replace the bulky clash and swing sensors with clash and swing sensors from TCSS. Both are quite small.

Noyl Wendor
06-21-2010, 05:27 PM
There's a separate thread for the 2010 boards, if you haven't seen it yet. As for the resistor, try it without...but don't complain to us if you end up frying the P4. ;) You're going to eliminate the clash sensor and therefore the clash sound effects? That would be an incredible waste of a 2010 board. :( It sounds like you are desperate to save every square millimeter you can. In that case, you could replace the bulky clash and swing sensors with clash and swing sensors from TCSS. Both are quite small.

Yep got that covered. They are small thats for sure. As for the P4 itself, I have made enough room with some alterations to the frame work.
For the clash sound, it still doesnt activate on a regular basis with the reed relay. Though it does activate.
I have an older obi-wan board (with a motor attached) that I am going to expiriment with.

Darth Yub Nub
01-31-2011, 08:50 PM
Hello to all,

New to the DIY crowd and before I ask my question I'd like to let you all know that I have been doing A LOT of research and reading up on forum conversations, so I hope my question doesn't make me look to noobish.

Anyways, I've read through this entire thread and I have decided to use a 5V relay with a force action soundboard (Anakin) as some have said that this gets rid of that annoying flash/clash when power the saber on/off. There are many helpful diagrams on this thread that I completely understand, but the problem is that none of them have a setup for a recharge port. I tried sketching my own diagram, and everything was going great until I got to drawing out the recharge port setup. I am beyond lost when it comes to this issue and am to afraid to try it on my own because I will most likely fry the board or LEDs. If anyone could point in the right direction to a diagram with a relay and a recharge port setup it would really help. Please and Thanks.

cardcollector
01-31-2011, 09:57 PM
Just so you know, the relay eliminating the flash on clash only worked about half the time.

A recharge port should hook up just like the diagrams in the other thread you just posted in. ;)

Tuffskull
02-08-2011, 07:05 AM
Hi I have a few questions. First is there a difference between the interior of OLGer. Swords from 1995 and actual ones? I wanted to electrify an alu hilt by using the toy now I am Not sure if using my 1995 qui gons or an actual Obi Wan One... Can I change the two batteries against smaller ones? A 9 Volt block will be probably much I guess, maybe 3 aaa or 2 aa batteries??? Sorry but I am a noob.

Matt Thorn
02-08-2011, 07:59 AM
Hi I have a few questions. First is there a difference between the interior of OLGer. Swords from 1995 and actual ones? I wanted to electrify an alu hilt by using the toy now I am Not sure if using my 1995 qui gons or an actual Obi Wan One... Can I change the two batteries against smaller ones? A 9 Volt block will be probably much I guess, maybe 3 aaa or 2 aa batteries??? Sorry but I am a noob.

Wow. I have no idea what most of that meant. What do you mean by "OLGer. Swords from 1995 and actual ones"? By "alu hilt", do you mean "aluminum hilt"? "I am Not sure if using my 1995 qui gons or an actual Obi Wan One..." Again, no idea what you mean here. A standard rectangular 9V alkaline battery is completely useless for use in a lightsaber.
....
Okay, I just read your other post. I think cardcollector and dgdve assumed you understood more about making lightsabers than you actually do. You should start by reading the appropriately titled "New to the saber scene? Start here" forum (http://forums.thecustomsabershop.com/forumdisplay.php?35-New-to-the-saber-scene-Start-Here). There is a great deal you need to learn before you can bring your "actual" hilt to life. There are many different kinds of what you call "actual" hilts. Some have more interior space than others. Many are intended to be decorative, and are extremely difficult if not impossible to convert to a working saber. It might help if you could upload photos of your hilt. Have you tried taking it apart yet? Depending on your hilt, the biggest challenge may not be the electronics, but rather getting a decent blade that will fit it. We can offer better advice if you upload sharp photos of your hilt from various angles, and preferably in stages of disassembly. Also, your question probably belongs in the "How to build a basic LED hilt" forum (http://forums.thecustomsabershop.com/forumdisplay.php?22-How-to-build-a-basic-LED-hilt). Start a new thread with a title like "n00b trying to convert an empty hilt to a working saber."

Good luck!

Darth Spader
02-17-2011, 01:42 AM
So I take that the very first diagram on this thread works..
Just wondering since Radioshack isnt in Australia, I need to buy a relay off another website. Just wondering if this one here will work on in my saber: http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=SY4036&keywords=reed+relay&form=KEYWORD

Azmaria Dei
02-17-2011, 03:38 AM
So I take that the very first diagram on this thread works..
Just wondering since Radioshack isnt in Australia, I need to buy a relay off another website. Just wondering if this one here will work on in my saber: http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=SY4036&keywords=reed+relay&form=KEYWORD

actually the transistor options have proven much more reliable and cheaper. this is actually relatively old information. the link to the transistor wiring is in my sig.

Darth Spader
02-17-2011, 03:59 AM
I noticed that the thread in your signature is for the 2010 Electronic Lightsaber sound. I'm actually using the exact same sound card that is shown in the first diagram on this thread. Do those diagrams still work for my card?

Azmaria Dei
02-17-2011, 04:05 AM
I noticed that the thread in your signature is for the 2010 Electronic Lightsaber sound. I'm actually using the exact same sound card that is shown in the first diagram on this thread. Do those diagrams still work for my card?

i haven't used one myself, but i've been told by a few people that it works perfectly on that board as well - you just have the ability to feed it 6V safely.

Skottsaber
02-18-2011, 12:39 AM
Yeah IIRC there was a diagram made by somebody on how to do transistor wiring for it.

cardcollector
02-18-2011, 06:17 AM
I guess I should edit the first post letting people know this is old info...

Darth Nater
06-21-2011, 11:04 PM
Rehashing this for a quick and elementary question. Do you use any of the existing wires on the hasbro boards or do you re-wire and re-solder all of the connections? Fixing to do a pair of these and I don't want to fry something by keeping some existing wires if that is a problem.

thanks

Skottsaber
06-22-2011, 01:13 AM
You don't have to replace the wires but it is strongly recommended as the existing solder joints and wires are usually quite weak and will break under stress.
Make sure you use some thicker wire if you rewire.

cardcollector
06-22-2011, 06:59 AM
I replace all wires to the boards I use... Saves you a lot of butthurtz later down the road.
forums.thecustomsabershop.com/showthread.php?12804-Hasbro-Economy-Board-quot-Rewire-Tutorial-quot

Darth Hambone
02-03-2013, 05:34 PM
I'm planning my first build. I'm using a Hasbro Force Action board and I plan to make a removable LED string blade and a lit crystal chamber (accent LED). I haven't calculated the resistors yet, however, I'm not too worried about that part of it. I used the schematic from this thread and edited it to match my design. I prefer to not have the accent LED responsive to motion or clash. Please let me know if I'm on track or what I need to do to fix it.

Jordandau
02-03-2013, 11:15 PM
Looks to me like the resistor you have for your accent LED is also going to your main, which would limit it to what the single accent is getting.

Darth Hambone
02-04-2013, 09:16 PM
Looks to me like the resistor you have for your accent LED is also going to your main, which would limit it to what the single accent is getting.

Wouldn't that be the case for the resister that goes to the blade LED as well? Also, I've seen the same setup using a buck puck. I don't know much about buck pucks, but wouldn't it reduce to power the same way as a resister?

Jordandau
02-04-2013, 09:47 PM
Buckpucks take a minimum of 5V and turn that into constant current regulation. Resistors block everything except what they're rated for.

Silver Serpent
02-05-2013, 06:19 AM
The blade LED and accent LED are wired parallel. You can control the power to each LED appropriately that way.

I don't know if the rest of the setup is correct (relay, board, etc.) since I've not studied that board. But the main and accent LEDs look correct. Just calculate your resistors for each one.

Darth Hambone
02-05-2013, 04:16 PM
Thank you. Have you ever toyed with a volume control on the speaker? I want the opportunity to turn the volume down.

Also, what's your take on Jordandau's claim that the resisters will reduce the power to the board if wired this way?

Silver Serpent
02-05-2013, 05:10 PM
I haven't tried a volume control on the speaker. I prefer mine loud :)

I'm going to have to disagree with Jordanau here. If you had the accent and main LED wired in series, he'd be correct. You have them wired in parallel, so one will not affect the other. Calculate each resistor as if the individual LEDs were hooked directly up to the battery with nothing else.

Darth Hambone
02-05-2013, 06:19 PM
Thank you so much. I'll post picks as the build proceeds.