Curved Saber Advantages?

[JediMedic]

Well, we have one thread for double-bladed, figured I could start a discussion on curved.

I bought this one a few months ago on Ebay:

http://forums.thecustomsabershop.com/showthread.php?t=8427&highlight=sekot

And I must say I find dueling with it to be most...perplexing. I can't get my angles of attack right nor figure out any cool fourishes. I think I honestly just prefer my standard 2 handed grip saber from Do-Clo.

Anyone have a functional curved saber wish to weigh in? How do you enjoy your hilt, and did you find mastering it to be more of a challenge? Have you dueled with it, and did it lend you any edge? Inquiring minds wish to know! :)

[cardcollector]

No idea... I don't like to use them.

The only thing I could see is having more of a hooking ability.
But, yeah, give me a straight hilt over a curved any day...

[$tarkiller]

well, generally,they are supposed to be used primarily with the wrist. it allows for more motion with a smaller effort of movement, that i ofcourse there is proper counterweight on it.

[Darth Midian]

I plan on building a curved hilt saber in the near future. I bought me and my son a couple of those cheap hasbro toy sabers a few years back and the one I purchased for myself was the Dooku. I absolutely loved it. I thought it felt more natural. I think the cuved hilts roll better when you're spinning them. (Conan style moves). I also think you can control your attacks and parries better, by using your dominant hand at the top of your hilt to push you saber forward and you non-dominant hand at the bottom of the hilt or on the curve to pull your saber back simultaneously. You have a push/ pull thing going on. I also believe you have a stronger thrust with the curved hilts. The curved hilts in a way reminds me of a pistol grip on a fencing foil, even though its unconventional the pistol grip gives you more control of your foil in my opion.

[Invisas1979]

I'm doing a curved hilt at the moment.
http://i951.photobucket.com/albums/ad354/invisas/IMG_6169resized.jpg

Thinking about how my current saber moves I think you need to change the style in which you wish to "fight".

Dooku's style is quite like fencing at times and you hold the curved saber on the curve which gives you an angle similar to that of fencing.

Maybe try that and or a reverse grip. When you hold a straight hilt in a reverse grip the blade will be quite close your elbow. The curved saber would be deceptive in striking range in this position as you can angle your wrist to keep it close or further.

Now you saber wont allow for this as the activation and epoxy design prevent it but I would, if changed my hand position to the bottom of the hilt, be able to whip the saber around. And because my hilt is long at 14-15ins I could have an orthodox grip high on the saber.

I've designed mine with an idea of creating odd angles of attack and mixing things up a little.

But that's just my thoughts.

[Sairon]

It's the weilder, not the weapon. It's how you use it, A man holding a fork could kill and man holding a sword.

[Darth Midian]

So very true Sairon.

[astromech_kuhns]

A man holding a fork could kill and man holding a sword.

really? really?



honestly? for real?

is the guy with the sword in a wheel chair?


So very true Sairon.

don't encourage him.;)

[Scum_and_Villainy]

really? really?
honestly? for real?

is the guy with the sword in a wheel chair?


Anyone who knows anything about fighting knows that to be true. The weapon is a tool, and what matters is how it's used.

For example, give a desk worker a baseball bat and put him against, say, an unarmed Bruce Lee. It's no question who's going to win. Bruce Lee would take him apartment like a Lego set. It's about skill, not who has the better weapon.

[Jedi-Loreen]

Take him...... apartment? :lol:

[annon]

http://i693.photobucket.com/albums/vv298/ryjinannon/MV5BMTM2MjQxNTc4NF5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTY.jpg

[Scum_and_Villainy]

Whoops. You ever type while having a conversation with someone else and accidentally type a word that you're saying to them? Yeah.

[astromech_kuhns]

Anyone who knows anything about fighting knows that to be true. The weapon is a tool, and what matters is how it's used.

For example, give a desk worker a baseball bat and put him against, say, an unarmed Bruce Lee. It's no question who's going to win. Bruce Lee would take him apartment like a Lego set. It's about skill, not who has the better weapon.

even I can wield a sword. there is truth to this but, come on, a swing of the sword and the fork is gone. all you have to do is drop it forward and you win. some one going to get eaten to death? i think to be hones that is exaggerated. now give a fork to a assassin and have the wheel chair guy not be knowing he is there. then one stab to the throat. but, a sword and fork.

is the desk workers apartmant going into foreclosure? and bruce lee is picking it up? ;)

[Goltar Bias]

The mention of the fencing style of fighting versus the standard broad sword/katana style used is a good point. Where you can get a lot of power out of a two handed strike it takes a good bit of time to recover from miss strike. The mention of the fork versus a sword is a little extreme but accurate, a person skilled with an epee or saber could give a person skilled with a katana or broad sword a fierce challenge. Mostly in dodging and thrusts that to opponent would have to avoid. Either no one style is superior to the other if both fighters are skilled enough or just down right lucky. It also just comes down to what you like and your style.

[chase]

I don't think you guys understand about what these people are saying about the fork vs sword thing.

Anyone who is trained with a weapon or trained to fight against a weapon will always beat the person who knows nothing about combat. Akido for example teaches you how to disarm people who have weapons with your bare hands. Someone who has been practicing for ten years of that can probably take on anyone in this forum. A weapon is a tool, and if you don't know how to use the tool, you will always lose. Its a matter of skill vs "I think I know how to use a lightsaber because I've watched Star Wars a thousand times".

There is a big difference between someone spinning a lightsaber and someone who can use a sword efficiently.

[Kastor]

As Goltar Bias said if anyone here has ever tried Fencing, the curved hilt resemble that of a foil or epee. These weapons are used for stabbing motions and deflection parries. The curved hilt gives the user more control in this regard, the ability to rotate the angle of the blade quickly and with less effort to block without changing stance. This style also sings the graces of retreating to win a fight so to speak and plays out more like chess you allow your opponent to trap themselves of fool them into a poor move then strike.

Your saber looks ideal for fencing style as it even has finger grips like foils. Try taking some classes in your area, beautiful saber btw.

[Alcfalath]

even I can wield a sword. there is truth to this but, come on, a swing of the sword and the fork is gone. all you have to do is drop it forward and you win. some one going to get eaten to death? i think to be hones that is exaggerated. now give a fork to a assassin and have the wheel chair guy not be knowing he is there. then one stab to the throat. but, a sword and fork.

is the desk workers apartmant going into foreclosure? and bruce lee is picking it up? ;)

AK, if you were to weild a sword (take your pic, any one that is a real modern day sword, that is practical and not a fantasy 9 Foot Sephiroth Masamune) against myself with a fork, all i can say is that i could easily put that fork into you in about 10 different ways, with minimum effort and damage to myself, resulting in a fatality on your behalf. :P

And that would be at a bare minimum training level of 3 martial art disciplines.

Its all about the person weilding the weapon. Take heed the phrase, Guns dont kill people, Other People Do...

Oh and at least it is a fork, just imagine if it were a tea cup ;) (for all you Rid**** Fans out there :D)

[Scum_and_Villainy]

Goltar hit the nail on the head. The curved saber is the ultimate technique weapon. One thing I've noticed with curved hilts built here and other places is that the curve is placed directly in the middle. I've always thought this looked odd, and upon further inspection, this is why: Dooku's saber is not curved in the middle. Rather, it is curved in two places:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v434/TheCosmicCastaway/dookucurved.jpg

Notice, the middle is actually pretty straight while the pommel and blade holder sections sport the curve of the saber. I think, if done this way, a custom saber would feel a bit more balanced.



even I can wield a sword. there is truth to this but, come on, a swing of the sword and the fork is gone. all you have to do is drop it forward and you win. some one going to get eaten to death? i think to be hones that is exaggerated. now give a fork to a assassin and have the wheel chair guy not be knowing he is there. then one stab to the throat. but, a sword and fork.


Have you considered that, in a fight like that, one won't use the fork to block? What is to stop a skilled warrior from slapping the sword away on the flat edge, leaping in, and embedding the fork into the guy's throat? Nothing. This would be more like a street fight than a friendly fencing duel.

[Novastar]

As Goltar Bias said if anyone here has ever tried Fencing, the curved hilt resemble that of a foil or epee.This is about as accurate a statement as would be your accuracy rate of throwing cats out your window and expecting them to land on the moon.

Alright. Now to get back to Jedi-Medic's original post. I'm not reading some of the other drivel.

I have a curved saber, made by Grayven. It's awesome, and it's in this video, which is a *RIOT*, you should check it out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcIvTxnXqU8

* I removed the "spikes" and replaced them with something a bit more tame. Kids use this saber, and we don't need stabbed hands, hahha

* The saber was--much to my surprise--easy to manipulate, and it doesn't really have a large effect on my actions

* It's also a fairly nice OD--of only ~1.25"... so that is helpful.

* It's true that any saber of this style will be strangely balanced... but not in the way that most of you will interpret "balancing"... No... the WEIGHT balance is GREAT. Perfect for my tastes really (under the forward hand, at the "emitter" area)...

* The "strange" balancing is the ROTATION it will want to make on its own. In other words... the curved end quite NATURALLY wants to face toward the ground. Gravity. You'd know what I mean if you held a saber like this.

SO... all it means is... you need to hold the weapon properly. You need to use it as a lever (see my stage combat tutorial on the NSCFCD#1) properly... and you should likely use two hands for all strikes and parries/blocks.

For "spinning" stuff or whatever--jedi twirls, blah blah... I don't know, it's fine I suppose. I haven't noticed anything horrible about it--other than it's overall length is a bit much for me regarding twirls or whatever... which would be a bit tough with a "normal" saber too. I think this saber is something like 14" long?? I don't remember exactly. I prefer 10" minimum to 12" maximum.

So, JEDI MEDIC... I say... experiment with it more. Get used to it. Familiarity with a weapon is key. There is a very old saying that the weapon is an extension of your hand & arm... and your soul & spirit! Ultimately, this is part of the reason I named my personal sabers "Flange". The word flange is not only a type of sound "tweak"... it means an extension or support. Additionally, it is a common detail/feature on (although not limited to) sink tubes, where you have that "bell"-shaped ridge. 8)

[Kastor]

Gee, not to start and argument and I realize you are a fencer but I also took fencing as well and is it not true that as far as sabers go I would think curved hilts would be used in a similar way? That is the only style of combat I know that uses a grip like that. I guess I would prefer, for the benefit of everyone and the sake of courtesy, you explain it rather than just sling mud.

[Jester]

From what I have read the main use for the curved hilts is for users of Form 2 or Makashi. Makashi being the form that Dooku used.
Makashi represents the ultimate refinement of lightsaber-to-lightsaber combat. Alot like fencing. Form II emphasized fluid motion and anticipation of a weapon being swung at its target, and so required very fluid movements of both the blade and the body.
Makashi is the form that I prefer as someone that has had experiance with fencing, so the curved hilt is quite usefull to me. I puts the hilt in an almost perfect position for most "moves".

The degree of the curve at the top of the hilt in relation to the hand holds was the important factor. The curve at the bottom of the hilt (if present) only affected electronics and power core placement. The bottom curvature on many lightsabers was mostly ornamental. The hilt's curvature also gave the wielder more power when delivering overhand strikes and would change the angle of the attacks by the merest fraction of a degree; this was usually just enough to confuse and disorient an unsuspecting opponent.

[$tarkiller]

AK, if you were to weild a sword (take your pic, any one that is a real modern day sword, that is practical and not a fantasy 9 Foot Sephiroth Masamune) against myself with a fork, all i can say is that i could easily put that fork into you in about 10 different ways, with minimum effort and damage to myself, resulting in a fatality on your behalf. :P

And that would be at a bare minimum training level of 3 martial art disciplines.

Its all about the person weilding the weapon. Take heed the phrase, Guns dont kill people, Other People Do...

Oh and at least it is a fork, just imagine if it were a tea cup ;) (for all you Rid**** Fans out there :D)

Someone is full of themselves. I suprised you can wield a fork with all of that ego getting in the way. :wink:

[Raith]

death by teacup is one of the most messed up ways to die ever... lol

but i have to agree with Alcfalath... it's all about the way the weapon is used, and who is using it.

the curved saber is somewhat an odd design, and by thropwing the blade off by a few degrees, it creates many more attack angles, and therefore it is harder to defend against.

[Novastar]

There is very little "fencing" to be seen in any Star Wars film--and for very good reasons:

* Way too fast
* Focus is on hitting the opponent as soon as possible (for the mostpart)
* It's a sport, not staged combat

Here is just a BASIC video I made regarding fencing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ol48HZtugLk

Since the camera was static (fixed position), and I obviously didn't have anyone else to aid with the video--I had to skip doing any advanced footwork/distance stuff... but the focus is on the bladework and general speed. Speaking of which, I AM NOT VERY FAST AT ALL. At least--not in my own opinion.

What does this have to do with anything?

1. A curved hilt/handle would mostly provide little to no advantage in a fencing bout.
2. A crazily curved BLADE would provide a large advantage... but there are regulations for sport fencing (a little curve is allowed/encouraged/the standard, though).
3. There are only so many angles of attack against a human body with 2 arms and two legs. A curved hilt does not add any more.
4. There is barely any "curvature" at all on almost every type of fencing weapon (western fencing) I've seen. Foil, Epee', and Saber alike. The very slight bend in the handle is nothing more than comfort/fit for your hand.
5. "Makashi" or whatever it is--is completely irrelevant to the art of fencing. It has absolutely nothing to do with it--other than it suggests a "sword form". But not a single bit of what we see Chris Lee (and stunt doubles) do in the films is "fencing" in nearly any way.

If anything, the WHIP or something flexible yet resilient (bamboo rod?) would be a far more devastating weapon regarding getting "more angles" or whatever.

I understand if people "want to believe" or invent cool things about curved hilts... but I will be honest and tell you that if we did some staged combat together, and you had a curved hilt... it would probably have little to no bearing on my actions. I am thinking it would be the same if we fenced (which--again--is NOT the same as staged combat).

[DarthDingus]

Three years too late to this party, but I was scrolling around for information on how to create a curved grip and came across this thread and simply HAD to chime in.

To give a little background about myself, I am a USFA registered fencer who has fenced in tournaments both nationally and locally with a couple of medals to my name. While I'm no Olympic fencer, I'm certainly more than just a college fencer...and I can say without any question, that while there are no "curved" grips in competitive fencing there ARE weapons in foil and epee that use pistol grips. The purpose of these grips is to maximize the force of the arm in a thrusting attack while mitigating the amount of effort used in the wrist to perry attacks. These grips are so prevalent in fact, that I'm willing to bet a large sum of money that nobody in the Olympics fencing either foil or epee used a standard straight (French) grip. Another advantage of such grips is that they utilize the dexterity in the fingers giving them VERY precise point control. I've seen far better fencers than I practice by bouncing a simple rubber bouncing ball against the wall and hitting it with the tip of their weapons. They're able to aim using only the tips of their fingers and without having to move their whole hand or arm. All in the wrist? No, all in the fingers!

So what does this have to do with Dooku? Well, Dooku very much used his curved grip in the same manner as a pistol grip weapon. (At one point, he even does a standard\traditional fencing salute) In the Star Wars universe, a pistol grip wouldn't work. However the best way to fit it into that universe is to simply add a bend to the grip. That would give you the same pistol style hold on the weapon while still having a lightsaber that looks like a lightsaber. Believe me, as someone who has fenced (curiously, saber was my weapon of choice), if I were to build a weapon my life depended upon it would absolutely have a curved grip for very reasons I've stated. It would allow me to more efficiently perry attacks while maximizing the use of my arm strength in attacking. The less effort I'm having to use, the more stamina and longer I can stay in a fight when necessary. A curved grip, being a rudimentary pistol grip, would allow me to exert less effort while allowing me to be more precise and make use of the "punching" power of my arm strength when necessary.