Force FX Construction Kit, Corbin driver, RGBA, reed relay

[Matt Thorn]

I've been plugging away at a conversion of the Force FX Construction Kit (a.k.a. "Joe Jedi", a.k.a. "616") using a LedEngin RGBA LED, a Corbin 3-Watt LED driver, and a 5-Volt reed relay switch.

This is my first time using a relay, and I've run into a problem. I thought I had figured out how to wire the relay, but I find that the LED stays lit constantly, rather than being triggered when the Joe Jedi soundboard is turned on. As you can (hopefully) see from the wiring diagram below, I have the wires from the original (amputated) 1-Watt RGB LED connected to the reed relay switch, which in turn is connected to the switch leads of the Corbin driver.

Any ideas what I'm doing wrong? :confused:

Thanks in advance for any help.

EDIT: Problem fixed, thanks to vargose and grayven.
EDIT 2: A 4aaa battery pack will fry your 616 board! See revised diagram in post #24.

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_THBqz9vPciU/SmKYX9dvIRI/AAAAAAAABZM/K521xhCaRAA/s400/joejedi-corbin.png (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/VjQ6EwSdp16BZNtX9KtTkQ?feat=embedwebsite)

[vargose]

The pins labeled 6 and 2 are the pins you'll need to wire to the sound board. As the current passes through it acts on the magnet and it will close the switch.

Then you'll connect the corbin board to 7 and 1 (or 8 and 14).

That should do the trick

[grayven]

Looks to me as though that is a NC set of contacts. The contacts are shown closed which should be shown in the de-energized state. You need them Open in the de-energized state and closed when energized. And make sure your + is on pin 2.

[Matt Thorn]

Thanks guys! Worked like a dream. :D When the resistors I ordered arrive, I'll wire up the whole thing on the breadboard to make sure it all works. If it does, I'll do the surgery and make sure to take photos for a tutorial.

EDIT: A 4aaa battery pack will fry your 616 board! See revised diagram in post #24.

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_THBqz9vPciU/SmKXL_nEQUI/AAAAAAAABZI/s9oLC88Aq38/s144/joejedi-corbin2.png (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/Lhxl9XXmtSeGlFUHZAdYbg?feat=embedwebsite)

[vargose]

Glad I could help

[Matt Thorn]

Here's the "beta" version of the diagram. It works on the breadboard. I'll see how it works in the hilt.

EDIT: I changed the DIP switch and resistors.
EDIT 2: A 4aaa battery pack will fry your 616 board! See revised diagram in post #24.

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_THBqz9vPciU/SmKWNYfn5_I/AAAAAAAABZA/mw9zVUuuXx0/s144/joejedi-corbin3.png (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/BtyjDz29v-YsCRTLEe1Gng?feat=embedwebsite)

[vargose]

What do those 6.8 Ohm resistors do to the color mixing? I know thats different than your prototype.

Give this switch a try instead of the dip switch. Its a 16 position hex coded switch. https://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=FR01AR16HB-Svirtualkey63300000virtualkey633-FR01AR16HB-S It even has a metal bracket for easy mounting in a saber. I am going to use it, when I get around to an RGBA.

[Matt Thorn]

My supplier doesn't carry 7.2 Ohm resistors, so I ordered 6.8 and 7.5 Ohm resistors. When they arrive, I'll see which looks better, and change the diagram accordingly.

Great switch, vargose. I had thought that a rotating switch meant I would have to separately wire each possible combination, but it looks like the one you recommended is wired the same as my 4-position DIP, and then dials through every possible combination, no?

[Matt Thorn]

Thanks to the 16-position rotary DIP code switch vargose recommended, the whole setup became a lot cleaner. (I can't easily acquire the precise model he recommended here in Japan, so I substituted this one (http://www.kel.jp/english/product/Switch/kds.html).)

And I found that the 7.5-Ohm resistors gave slightly better colors (by my subjective standards) than the 6.8-Ohm ones.

Here's what I hope is the final wiring diagram. Now the question is if I can fit all this cleanly into the Construction Kit hilt.

EDIT: A 4aaa battery pack will fry your 616 board! See revised diagram in post #24.

[/URL][URL="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/AcFBAv7Ypl2_o4nuXx0a3Q?feat=embedwebsite"]http://lh5.ggpht.com/_THBqz9vPciU/SmKUJCca2jI/AAAAAAAABY4/eP7Cf80SVsc/s144/joejedi-corbin4.png (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/crjuC4NIPQ2xsRiN1035dw?feat=embedwebsite)

[Kal El Rah]

Matt, looks like you figured it out. Good job , can't wait to see it installed.:cool:

[Matt Thorn]

Matt, looks like you figured it out. Good job , can't wait to see it installed.:cool:
Me, too.
Before finishing the wiring of the Corbin board and LED, I attached my modified 4aaa battery pack/speaker, just to see if the 616 board was set up properly. I got a few seconds of sound and a little puff of smoke from a certain sector of the board. :( Hopefully I haven't killed the 616 board, but it's 2:30 a.m. here in Japan, so I'm going to set aside for now, hit the hay, and look at it with fresh eyes tomorrow. :rolleyes:

[Kal El Rah]

That sucks, but magic smoke is a bad sign:sad:

[yell0w_lantern]

Wow, I am watching this thread with great interest. Isn't the square rotary switch going to be hard to mount though?

[Matt Thorn]

I'm planning to mount the rotary DIP switch in the same place grayven mounted his 3-position DIP in his modification, which you can see here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXpcU4h8V-M&feature=related).

But at the moment I have bigger worries. After a night's sleep, I checked again and found that the LED portion is in fine working order. When I turn the main switch on, the reed relay is triggered and the Corbin does its job.

But I've got no sound. The tiny puff of gray smoke I saw last night came from this general area:
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_THBqz9vPciU/SlqwUNBMkJI/AAAAAAAABVU/fqD4bNsOXN4/s800/magic_smoke_spotting.png (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/uwNpRyU5n5jOu82dbq7WYg?feat=embedwebsite)
Anyone have any ideas or suggestions? :confused:

[Kal El Rah]

I hope that's not the op-amp section of the board for the sound:(

Did you try taking measurements on the legs for voltage?

[Matt Thorn]

I hope that's not the op-amp section of the board for the sound:(

Did you try taking measurements on the legs for voltage?
Would the "op-amp" happen to be the "all-important and hopelessly irreparable" section of the soundboard? :( Seriously, do you know what this thing would look like, and if it can be repaired or replaced?

I just measured voltage and found something interesting that may be the cause of the magic smoke. With the LED wired up, voltage at the legs (where the wires from the battery pack/speaker connect to the 616 board as well as the Corbin board) is about 4.7, but with the LED disconnected, it's about 5.1. I'm thinking it was really stupid of me to try to send power to the setup before finishing the wiring of the LED, and that the 616 board got a tad more voltage than it could handle. Lesson learned the hard way. :rolleyes:

So, is this 616 board now basically useless? Is it naive to hope that I might be able to "fix" it with a jumper wire somewhere?

It's really too bad, since it worked like a charm on the breadboard, and even with the 1.25" Sink tube LED/Blade holder (http://www.thecustomsabershop.com/125-Sink-tube-LEDBlade-holder--P269.aspx), Corbin board, two bulky resistors, the reed relay, and the DIP switch, it looked like everything was going to fit into the hilt. (In fact, all that remains is to install the DIP switch.)

[DJMoonbass]

wow this might just be what i need for my senior project!!!! im not so sure of the magic smoke so please let me know what happened....

[Matt Thorn]

wow this might just be what i need for my senior project!!!! im not so sure of the magic smoke so please let me know what happened....
I'm fairly certain the damage was caused by sending power to the module before the LED was wired. If the LED is properly wired, the Corbin driver should draw enough of the voltage to prevent the Construction Kit sound board from getting too much power.

Despite the setback, I'm going ahead with the conversion. If the sound board proves to be irreparable, I'll just leave it as is until I get a replacement board. At least I'll have a Construction Set with 15 colors to choose from and the nice Corbin shimmering and clash effects. And without the sound, it will be just right for swinging around in libraries. :p

BTW, I ended up putting the DIP switch on the opposite side of the case, since the space where grayven put his is occupied by the two clash sensors. I'll have to drill a hole in the aluminum tube so that the switch can be accessed easily. Like grayven, I'm mounting the switch with J-B Weld Kwik. (I've got to let it set at least 4 hours before I wire it up.)

Getting all the parts to fit nicely into the hilt requires a lot of thought and some trimming of the plastic sheath. I'll make a tutorial with photos and diagrams later, but until I (or someone else) can confirm that it really will work (without damage to the soundboard), the tutorial will remain tentative. :rolleyes:

[vargose]

it looks like the one you recommended is wired the same as my 4-position DIP, and then dials through every possible combination, no?

That is correct. Its coded to go through every combination. Its a 16 position binary hexadecimal coded rotary switch. Just make sure what you get is coded.

[Matt Thorn]

Well, I'm basically done, and apart from the sound problem, and a couple other minor glitches, I'm pretty happy with it. The blade can be removed and replaced like any standard Luxeon-style conversion, and the hilt is fully functional as a Construction Kit. Changing colors is as simple as removing the cosmetic hilt sections and turning the rotary switch with a screwdriver.

One glitch is that I had to shave down the switch in order to make it fit inside the aluminum sheath, which has made it awkward to turn with a screwdriver. I also didn't use enough J-B Weld (or didn't let it cure it long enough), so the switch has become loose on one side. I'm going to have to replace it with a flat switch.

One encouraging development: the sound does not seem to be completely dead. I noticed that when the battery pack is pushed in part-way, I can hear the sound very faintly. Fire-up, swing, clash, idle, fire-down--all the sounds are there. They're just really, really quiet. Now I have to figure out how to boost the sound, and get the sound to work when the battery pack is inserted all the way.

Here are photos of the hilt without the blade, and the 15 different color combinations. Naturally, the camera has not captured the true colors, but it does give you an idea of the variation.
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_THBqz9vPciU/SltHcD_p7SI/AAAAAAAABXQ/ZWSnoPY0ACg/s144/IMG_0720.jpg (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/IIY41vztLCDLTTTjXy5_-g?feat=embedwebsite)
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_THBqz9vPciU/SltHdvsgdPI/AAAAAAAABXU/4O0SvprJCMI/s144/IMG_0723.jpg (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/dWub7UtEs-K5-n8Oce5eew?feat=embedwebsite)
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_THBqz9vPciU/SltHfGYMj4I/AAAAAAAABXY/0BKo3JHtqvw/s144/IMG_0724.jpg (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/gnfnTgzGpgaf16DHDM34Uw?feat=embedwebsite)
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_THBqz9vPciU/SltHgZa3TvI/AAAAAAAABXc/Dwx2apCaJqE/s144/IMG_0725.jpg (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/JhnPKo-pKV9GFekLJKk4wg?feat=embedwebsite)
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_THBqz9vPciU/SltHhT9ej5I/AAAAAAAABXg/KNp1tz3_rK0/s144/IMG_0726.jpg (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/I0DQ0xhs-YiavYW8E219Lg?feat=embedwebsite)
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_THBqz9vPciU/SltHjNVt75I/AAAAAAAABXk/uwvB_XMeulw/s144/IMG_0727.jpg (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/q0rmVTrKWxSrggZVPGJ7rA?feat=embedwebsite)
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_THBqz9vPciU/SltHkYNlHqI/AAAAAAAABXo/n-KHWy2H8VU/s144/IMG_0728.jpg (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/CncJpmcdN3h8wHei5nhVrw?feat=embedwebsite)
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_THBqz9vPciU/SltHmBT0-NI/AAAAAAAABXs/Tb9qP_frWZY/s144/IMG_0729.jpg (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/EPIFs7WpMBuUqXxApJO_Og?feat=embedwebsite)
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_THBqz9vPciU/SltHoHmg7CI/AAAAAAAABX0/Tvr84uR0WxE/s144/IMG_0730.jpg (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/L5YgvQfAgZYXXr0moO9uWQ?feat=embedwebsite)
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_THBqz9vPciU/SltHpk4EOEI/AAAAAAAABX4/wG-bySZN_hU/s144/IMG_0731.jpg (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/oLt0bln8Aa6XI2E8GDwtUg?feat=embedwebsite)
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_THBqz9vPciU/SltHqyizoKI/AAAAAAAABX8/DRygZni2uxk/s144/IMG_0732.jpg (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/pGemUqF86IK0ZadaGd2WMw?feat=embedwebsite)
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_THBqz9vPciU/SltHs0ILyNI/AAAAAAAABYA/usSFGsIBDK8/s144/IMG_0733.jpg (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/-c9IUjLTUjyXW7GyGkkj_g?feat=embedwebsite)
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_THBqz9vPciU/SltHussK7AI/AAAAAAAABYE/nWCT1uYkZro/s144/IMG_0734.jpg (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/5IRlzZCLoiyahavUZRmDVg?feat=embedwebsite)
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_THBqz9vPciU/SltHv-Pi_PI/AAAAAAAABYI/Vb7YzJshlSQ/s144/IMG_0735.jpg (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/WxxiHJq1lo6QOi0sWvyIiw?feat=embedwebsite)
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_THBqz9vPciU/SltHwoxtJXI/AAAAAAAABYM/HvzRuJJGM3c/s144/IMG_0736.jpg (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/KtiiULsXyUASMohJDeQknQ?feat=embedwebsite)
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_THBqz9vPciU/SltHxjf9unI/AAAAAAAABYQ/coobR7cOa1U/s144/IMG_0737.jpg (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/oS2U9fk307rBQ7its9kDUg?feat=embedwebsite)
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_THBqz9vPciU/SltHyrLu7MI/AAAAAAAABYU/TmrhoR1c0pI/s144/IMG_0738.jpg (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/m5510bPle27wj4b6C_nqhg?feat=embedwebsite)
I don't have time to make a proper tutorial right now, but you can look through the photo album (http://picasaweb.google.com/littlenemo1905/ForceFXConstructionKitConversion?feat=directlink) and get an idea of what was involved.

[Kal El Rah]

Matt the op-amp is an amplifier for sound, since you say you can kinda hear the sounds but they are very low, then more than likely that is what fried.:(

[yell0w_lantern]

Nice set of colors. I'm really digging all the variation.
Sorry if my earlier comment seemed dumb but hardware and tools are fairly foreign to me.

[Matt Thorn]

Nice set of colors. I'm really digging all the variation.
Sorry if my earlier comment seemed dumb but hardware and tools are fairly foreign to me.
Not dumb at all. I was stumped about how to mount non-bracketed switches when I first tried it, and got the idea of using J-B Weld from grayven. :p

[Matt Thorn]

So I got hold of a new Construction Set. This time I decided I would stick with the standard 3aaa battery/speaker pack that comes with the set, rather than trying to use a 4aaa set-up.

I used a flat DIP switch this time, and found significantly smaller 3-Watt, 7.5-Ohm resistors made by Xicon.

I wired it up, fired it up, and everything worked great: sound, colors...if only it were just a bit brighter...

Hey, I know! Since that gray smoke incident was no doubt caused by the fact that I gave the power to the board before wiring up the LED. I'll just pop in that 4aaa pack I made and turn it on for a second to see how it works.

Poof.

A single second, another puff of gray smoke, and another 616 board shot. :(

Lessons learned: 1) the 616 board really, seriously does not want more than 4.5 Volts; and, 2) I am an idiot who doesn't learn from his mistakes. :rolleyes:

So here's the latest wiring diagram, which I'll call "Version 0.5". I can guarantee that this set-up will work. It just won't be terribly bright. You modify it at your own risk!

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_THBqz9vPciU/SmKPaBt04wI/AAAAAAAABYw/hB5TzdedcQc/s800/joejedi-corbin5.png (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/NVbU3-EHkm9BQ1915Cp6_w?feat=embedwebsite)

[Kal El Rah]

Lesson learned I guess.:(

[Matt Thorn]

Now that I've killed two 616 boards in the same fashion, I'm determined to repair them. There is no doubt that it was the part circled in the photo below that was fried in both cases.
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_THBqz9vPciU/SmK79jOqDdI/AAAAAAAABZw/kseSzksoHZw/s800/fried_part.jpg (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/eWxLxC5goTRU83B5Rdy94Q?feat=embedwebsite)
Kal El Rah identified the part as an operational amplifier, but I haven't been able to find an op-amp that has fewer than five terminals, and this one has three. I've learned that the "package" is called "SOT-23" (3 x 1.2 mm), but this package )(with three terminals) seems to be used in any number of parts, including various Zener diodes. You can see that the lettering on the part seems to read "BHD 2J". I haven't been able to find a part with that code, and I'm pretty sure it doesn't stand for "bad hair day". :rolleyes:

I know a lot of people on this forum have used plenty of 616 boards on various projects. Does anyone know with any certainty what this part is, and what I might use as a replacement? Thanks in advance for any help.

[Kal El Rah]

Matt,

I was not stating that in fact it is an op amp just that it might be.

Since we can not get schematics from the manufacturer it was a best guess, it might be something else, such as a voltage regulator. Hopefully somebody else will know as you asked.

[yell0w_lantern]

Matt, you mentioned in the other thread that the LED is brilliant - how does it compare to a LUX-3 for brightness? I imagine that it gets brighter the more colors you turn on - if only marginally so. I'm also curious how you managed the optics - I heard that LEDEngin was too big for the collimators from the store.

[Matt Thorn]

Matt,

I was not stating that in fact it is an op amp just that it might be.

Since we can not get schematics from the manufacturer it was a best guess, it might be something else, such as a voltage regulator. Hopefully somebody else will know as you asked.
Apologies. I understand that schematics are unavailable, and considering that the sound remains, but becomes almost imperceptible, your guess is far better than anything that I could come up with, considering that I didn't even know what an "op-amp" is until I read your post and looked it up. :oops:

Matt, you mentioned in the other thread that the LED is brilliant - how does it compare to a LUX-3 for brightness? I imagine that it gets brighter the more colors you turn on - if only marginally so. I'm also curious how you managed the optics - I heard that LEDEngin was too big for the collimators from the store.
That's what I heard, too, but I've worked with two so far, and they seem to fit fine. (It seems to me that the fact that the stock collimators never fit properly into the stock lens holders is a bigger problem.:rolleyes:) As for brightness, I would say it is about the same as a Luxeon III. But when I ran it with the 3aaa pack, it was noticeably dimmer.

[sithlordfaust]

to use a 4xAAA just jumper out from the 3rd battery to the soundboard
or you could go with a rechargable setup with 2 trustfires or 18650s and run 1 to the sound and the other to the corbin board

[Matt Thorn]

to use a 4xAAA just jumper out from the 3rd battery to the soundboard
or you could go with a rechargable setup with 2 trustfires or 18650s and run 1 to the sound and the other to the corbin board
Thanks. I had considered the former solution, but frankly I was too lazy to try it before giving the board the full 4aaa, and I paid the price. Which, to be precise, was 14,480 yen (including s/h) for the brand new Construction Set. :rolleyes:

I hadn't thought of the second solution. Thanks for the suggestion.

Unfortunately, I don't intend to dish out another $150+ for a new Construction Set any time soon, so until I can get hold of a 616 soundboard, it's all academic. :sad:

[Matt Thorn]

Here's my tutorial! (http://forums.thecustomsabershop.com/showthread.php?t=8616)