Miniature atomizer, prop "smoke"

[TimeRender]

I just thought I would share this find with other prop builders here.

http://www.blucigs.com/products.php

This company makes electronic cigarettes. A small heating element connected to an airflow sensor vaporizes a small amount of propylene glycol, producing a puff of water vapor. It occurs to me that an atomizer this small could be mounted in the barrel of a prop blaster to produce a small amount of smoke every time the trigger is pulled. The airflow sensor could be shorted out so that the unit produces smoke whenever power is applied, and the power source could be the battery that drives your blaster's soundboard or led. Alternatively, the airflow sensor could be utilized as-is if the prop blaster had some sort of small air pump installed, like the sort of thing you find in a $1 squirt gun. I don't have any blaster projects planned at the moment, but I thought someone else might be interested. The atomizers are sold in pairs for $10, making this a cheap prop gun upgrade. Let me know what you think.

[Novastar]

EDIT: Wait... these simulate cigarette taste, scent(??) and all that jazz. :(

I would not want to recommend these, nor have kids looking at such links. Although the concept sounds good.

[Revan]

i agree with novastar, as great as an idea this is. kids can use these forums and they shouldn't be seeing this stuff. so if you could find a bare atomizer, that would be better to suggest....

[TimeRender]

I didn't think that would be such a big deal, since kids couldn't actually buy these for themselves anyway, and since other such things have been posted here before, like laser powered cigarette lighters. I've looked for bare atomizers before and couldn't find anything even close to these. If Tim feels this thread should be deleted, I would understand, but personally I don't see how this could be a problem.

Edit: Here is a funny observation... Revan, you even posted on that Zippo lighter thread. You seemed to think it was cool at the time. Just pointing that out...

[Jagahati]

I can see how it is important to shelter children, I am sure they have never seen or smelled a cigarette nor have they seen a beer commercial or the cover of an FHM or Maxim.

Yes small high price atomizers in the shape of a cigarette that stinks and contains no nicotine or tar are sure to be what drives them over the edge.

I think you would need some variety of pressurized air or a fan of some type to blow the "Smoke" out of the barrel.

[TimeRender]

Lol Jag seems to get my point, although I want to clarify a few things. Firstly, I would never have posted this if I thought it would be a bad influence on kids. These are mainly used to get people to QUIT smoking, not to encourage them to start, and they do not sell to anyone under the age of 18 anyway. Secondly, the "smoke" generated by these atomizers is nothing more than water vapor. The cartridges that they sell through the website contain flavorings and nicotine, but for the purposes of prop building I would not use them anyway. Plain unflavored propylene glycol has numerous uses and can be purchased in small quantities from a number of online chemical dealers. This way, any props utilizing the effect would not have any noticeable odor. Lastly, I just want to reaffirm that if Tim or any of the mods do not approve of this posting I will remove it with full apologies to everyone I may have offended. I don't want to cause a problem, but I did think it was a good find and that I should share it with everyone here.

Changing the subject, Jag is right that you would probably need some sort of air pump if you wanted to shoot the vapor out of the barrel. However, it wouldn't be necessary for all special effects. It could be used by itself to create smoke at a prop gun's cartridge ejector, or to create a small amount of lingering smoke just at the end of the barrel. If an air pump is desired, you might try gutting a cheap battery powered keyboard vacuum. These are just ideas, I don't have much experience with this sort of thing.

[Novastar]

I totally understand where you're coming from, Time. Still. Under Jagahati's logic... if a child has seen X or Y before--especially via corporate America--it means it's OK to advocate it elsewhere. I completely disagree in every possible way.

That being said... more to the point is: you're right, TimeRender. It would be water vapor!! I missed that. Sorry... and that's a good point that, yes, you must be 18+ to order.

But... again as devil's advocate--it might be easier to search out some theatrical tricks and devices that are made for this sort of thing (Phantom of The Opera did similar things to this during it's S.F. run--I saw the show 3 times... and that was YEARS ago).

[TimeRender]

If you can find something similar, please do post it. I've been looking but have been unable to find anything comparable being made commercially. Any sort of low voltage heating element could be used as a vaporizer though, so I suppose something could be scratch built. I just liked these because they were small, cheap, and readily available.

[Jagahati]

I totally understand where you're coming from, Time. Still. Under Jagahati's logic... if a child has seen X or Y before--especially via corporate America--it means it's OK to advocate it elsewhere. I completely disagree in every possible way.

That being said... more to the point is: you're right, TimeRender. It would be water vapor!! I missed that. Sorry... and that's a good point that, yes, you must be 18+ to order.

But... again as devil's advocate--it might be easier to search out some theatrical tricks and devices that are made for this sort of thing (Phantom of The Opera did similar things to this during it's S.F. run--I saw the show 3 times... and that was YEARS ago).


I would argue that trying to "Hide" the problems in society or the world from children is not even possible much less practical. It is a far better policy to actualy talk to and teach children about these things and why they can hurt you and how in my view. Attempting to sweep the problem under a rug and pretend it doesn't exist is not a sane policy.

I myself am an ex-smoker and I didn't start because of a prop idea I saw on a forum about props.

So in an effort to educate here are a few of the things smoking can and will do to you:

Effects of Tobacco Smoke

* Smoking KILLS
*Every year hundreds of thousands of people around the world die from diseases caused by smoking.
*One in two lifetime smokers will die from their habit. Half of these deaths will occur in middle age.
*Tobacco smoke also contributes to a number of cancers.

*The mixture of nicotine and carbon monoxide in each cigarette you smoke temporarily increases your heart rate and blood pressure, straining your heart and blood vessels.
*This can cause heart attacks and stroke. It slows your blood flow, cutting off oxygen to your feet and hands. Some smokers end up having their limbs
amputated.
*Tar coats your lungs like soot in a chimney and causes cancer. A 20-a-day smoker breathes in up to a full cup (210 g) of tar in a year.
*Changing to low-tar cigarettes does not help because smokers usually take deeper puffs and hold the smoke in for longer, dragging the tar deeper into their lungs.
*Carbon monoxide robs your muscles, brain and body tissue of oxygen, making your whole body and especially your heart work harder. Over time, your airways swell up and let less air into your lungs.
*Smoking causes disease and is a slow way to die. The strain put on your body by smoking often causes years of suffering. Emphysema is an illness that slowly rots your lungs. People with emphysema often get bronchitis again and again, and suffer lung and heart failure.
*Lung cancer from smoking is caused by the tar in tobacco smoke. Men who smoke are ten times more likely to die from lung cancer than non-smokers.
*Heart disease and strokes are also more common among smokers than non-smokers.
*Smoking causes fat deposits to narrow and block blood vessels which leads to heart attack.
*Smoking causes around one in five deaths from heart disease.
*In younger people, three out of four deaths from heart disease are due to smoking.

You also stink, often look like crap, they are expensive to the point that you can easily smoke a new car a year, and to top it all off quitting is on par with quitting cocaine.

I don't recommend it.

[TimeRender]

Ok Jag, we shouldn't let the thread get derailed, nor should be let it turn into an argument. I've been a part of too many of those lately. This thread isn't about cigarettes, it's about small atomizers that could be used for prop special effects. Since we all seem to agree now that this isn't terribly inappropriate, could we drop the other conversation entirely?

I checked out a few theatre special effects stores online last night, but the only things I could find were smoke pots and flash paper, which are one time use items. The atomizers that I proposed would probably only need to be reloaded once every 200 shots or so. I also looked into the smoke generators used in model trains, but the ones I saw all ran on much higher voltages than you would see in a prop, not to mention they are larger and have a proper "this-way-up" side.

[Dahi Esmeva]

i agree with what jagahati said

[Revan]

Edit: Here is a funny observation... Revan, you even posted on that Zippo lighter thread. You seemed to think it was cool at the time. Just pointing that out...

a laser powered lighter is a little different than something that can mess with your endorphins and get you addicted to it.... but i see your point. perhaps i was a bit rash, however i still do not like the idea of young kids getting the idea into their heads that smoking can be "safe" in any way. even if it's just a vaporizer and no actual smoke is inhaled, (plus i might add) no age limit has prevented everyone from obtaining a product that they were not able to obtain by themselves... it's just a small obstacle that others can get past easily.

and let me say again i still think the concept you presented is awesome!

i just can't help thinking about what else is going through ppl's heads when they see that advertisement...
(PS. they DO have nicotine in them)
edit: i checked again and there are cartridges that have NO nicotine in them so they can be safe :) so as of now i change my opinion (a little) great find!

[sithlordfaust]

ive made vaporizers this small before. its not that hard. you can find the instructions if you can think of how and where to look for it. I wont post the link here because it is DEFINATELY inappropriate here

[TroyO]

To clarify (As some who uses e-cigarettes and has done some research but is by no means a doctor) the vapor produced is propolyne glycol vapor, not water vapor. Still deemed harmless, but worthy to note. (This is much the same as stage fog... and is even being studied, in vapor form as a a way to reduce lung infections in children. I do not have any information as to that studies results.)

Also, E-cigarrettes are intended as an alternative to smoking, not as an emulation. They contain nicotine, propolyne glycol and a few other flavoring additives. None of which are carcinogenic (except a trace amount from the distilation of the nicotine from tobacco. Less than is in the patch, actually). Pretty good in comparison to the 4000 plus chemicals, a few dozen of which ARE carcinogens found in cigarettes. It's still not "good for you" but it is worlds better than "smoking". It gives you the nicotine fix (Not much worse for you medically than caffine) without the chemicals, tar, and stink of "real" cigarettes.

If someone can't (Or won't) quit nicotine they have the potential to save many lives. It certainly shouldn't be sold to or marketed to children. Or to people who don't already smoke, for that matter. (IMHO)

From a more practical aspect... you'd need an air pump of some kind, but they do produce plenty of vapor to be used as a prop smoke device. Maybe one of those micro-fans would be enough?

They vaporize the propolyne glycol, but without a "puff" to send it out of the tube it kind of floats there. The atomizer part, with a cartridge (which you could refill with just plain propolyne glycol.. common food/purfume additive, can order it at Walgreens Pharmacy) is about 1.5 inches long and 5/16" thick. They run off 3.7-5V usually.

As soon as I got one I started thinking about prop-worthy uses, LOL.

[Lord Maul]

I agree with TR... Keep debates about smoking out of this thread. This is about the atomizer and using it in a blaster barrel.

Side note, but if any Council members don't like this thread, just make one about it in the council ;)

[TroyO]

True... will try to be more on-topic. I also tried to pass along on-topic info too, LOL.

Key points:

It's Propylene Glycol (Sorry about mispelling in above post.) vapor, not water vapor but is still considered to be a safe vapor/fog agent by those in the know.

It runs on 3.7-5V

It will need an air pump/fan of some kind. (maybe the guts of a fish tank air pump?)

Dimensions are about 5/16" x 1.5"... although really you would just need the atomizer and could load the wick into that and soak it with the Propolene Glycol... would cut it to 3/4 inch or so.

[TimeRender]

I actually ordered a kit to test these out, and honestly I am a bit disappointed in the potential for this brand's model to be used in prop effects. The heat generated by the atomizer is unreliable and the amount of "smoke" generated is pretty weak. I have found that the unit requires a bit of priming before it can create enough visible smoke, which simply can't be done in a blaster prop. Furthermore, the cartridges seem to need a bit of fiddling between puffs to continue producing smoke. I still think that ecig atomizers have potential, but I may have to test a few other brands before I find one that works for use in props. I do still have one of Erv's blaster boards sitting in the project box, so hopefully I will find a better unit before I get around to starting that project. If anyone else has any input on the subject, please chime in, but do try to stay on subject.

[TroyO]

I am using a JoyE 510 model... it's enough smoke for a pretty decent effect. It could do say muzzle smoke or be used for a "shorting out" electronics type effect.

It's not going to fill a room, though.

I have some battery side connectors on the way, maybe I could knock something up to demo the smoke making potential in a prop-ized configuration. I'll see what I can do and post the results here.

[TroyO]

I dropped the ball... as it ends up I sent the ones I had to my sister, so I am without supplies to try it now.

I may revisit it at some point, but the "Honey-do" and "I gotta tinker with" list are pretty long, LOL.

[Tyhm]

http://cosplay.com/showthread.php?t=112874 goes into depth on making smoke-generating costume props. (And was my primary introduction to EL Film...)
But particularly if we mix this with some saber-level optics - a really narrow beam of light shot into the smoke, and propel the smoke in a cohesive and fast "ball" as far as possible, that'd be an amazing effect.
I'm not sure what you'd need to do to pack the smoke and fire it though; there's those ridiculous looking giant Airzookas (http://www.thinkgeek.com/geektoys/warfare/60b6/), but I don't know if those could be miniaturized (http://www.instructables.com/id/Paper-Cup-Air-Cannon/)and motorized successfully...something that pumps in the smoke then pumps it out quickly would be ideal. Use a Star Wars Laser Tag Rebel Blaster for the sound card when all is said and done...:-D

Oh hey, I should read my own posts: http://www.zerotoys.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Offset=0&Category_Code=PRODUCTS
They already make a gun that shoots smoke rings 12 feet - feel up to modifying/narrowing the output nozzle to try and make a smoke beam instead? :-D

Ooh, video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCqiCs5A-1I

[TimeRender]

Can you imagine how silly the fire fights would have been if the blaster bolts had traveled as slowly as a puff of smoke? Han could have shot first, taken time for some coffee and a doughnut, Greedo could have had a last cigarette, maybe called his wife and kids, made peace with whatever gods the Rodians worship, and still pulled off a few shots at Han before getting "smoked".

[Tyhm]

"None can escape the Quad Glacier!"

Haha, okay, granted. If there were a way to keep a cohesive beam of basically transparent smoke and run the focal point of the light along it, it would look a lot spiffier; but for proper lasers the best bet is probably still Nerf and lax con security.

[Shadeslinger]

I've tossed around the idea of using whatever small device they use in model trains to make a small puff of "smoke" as an effect for a steampunk type lightsaber. Never got around to investigating it though.

[Lord Maul]

Model train smoke coils take a few minutes to heat up, in my experience. They wouldn't be suited for a saber.

[TimeRender]

The heating element in the ecigs was a disappointment, but the propylene glycol works very well. The trick would be to make or discover a fast, low voltage, high temp heating element. I bought one of those cold heat soldering irons many years ago. It never satisfied me as an actual soldering iron, but perhaps it could be dissected for use in this fashion.

[Tyhm]

The heating element in the ecigs was a disappointment, but the propylene glycol works very well. The trick would be to make or discover a fast, low voltage, high temp heating element. I bought one of those cold heat soldering irons many years ago. It never satisfied me as an actual soldering iron, but perhaps it could be dissected for use in this fashion.

Anyone tried the zerotoys.com blasters? I have no idea the warmup on them, but it doesn't Seem to take long.

[Crystal Chambers]

Oops tongue has been bitten...

Otherwise interesting read on the fx! Got me thinking now...

[Sunrider]

Lord Maul


Keep debates about smoking out of this thread.;)