master chief VS Jedi

[DJMoonbass]

imagine this: Take the masterchief from halo (with all his huge genetic enhancments and his mjolnir armor) and a plasma sword and then face him against a jedi using no force powers to attack but just to fence. now who would win that fight and how long would it last?

[Rhyen Skytracker]

See, that is not fair. If the masterchief has all of his genetic enhancements, why can't the Jedi use the force?

[Darth Cipher]

I'm not fully versed in Halo but wouldn't a jedi's reflexes easly beat out masterchief? Plus a jedi has heavy training in swordsmanship while masterchief is stuck with the most basic skills and it would be a pretty short fight because of it. I vote for the jedi.

[Lord Preston]

Jedi would win.

[Obi-Ben]

What do you mean no force "powers"? Do you mean they can't use the force for anything *except* lightsaber fighting? If so, Jedi would win easily hands-down. It's like Mace Windu vs. Jango Fett.

[Rhyen Skytracker]

I think The Jedi would win, even though he wouldn't use his force powers to attack.

[Darth Siggious]

jedi - no contest - the Chief's too slow IMO

[DJMoonbass]

if youve read the halo books the spartans are extreeme. now a jedi can use the ofrce for fencing like i said but no choke, shove, pull, etc. i dont know.... master chief with a plasma sword would put up a helluva fight

[DJMoonbass]

What do you mean no force "powers"? Do you mean they can't use the force for anything *except* lightsaber fighting? If so, Jedi would win easily hands-down. It's like Mace Windu vs. Jango Fett.

jango fett had no genetic enhancements or super mjolnir armor and he had a blaster not a plasma sword. of course Samual L jacksons gunna beat the snot out of him!

[Tradeliphine]

coming from someone who runs a site based on halo, and is wearing a custom master chief shirt as I type this... master chief is gonna get his butt whooped. Several years of military training as an adult, coupled with a suit of armor that restricts your movement but protects you from concussive force will do nothing against a jedi who has trained in multiple disciplines of fighting since he was a toddler, worst case scenario the armor is slightly lightsaber resistant and the jedi ends up plunging the saber into chiefs gut and melts him qui-gon vs trade federation door style.

PS why would they fight? wouldnt the jedi sense chief was good?

PPS stop double posting dude

[Rhyen Skytracker]

DJMoonbass, in case you are not familuar with the rules, double posting is not allowed. A double post is 2 post from the same person in a row without another person posting in between. To keep from double posting, you can wait for another person to post or just edit your previous post

[DJMoonbass]

got it. thanks wade :oops:

well i thought that the mjolnir armor was the excact opposite of movment restriction. if you remeber in The Fall of Reach. UNSC tested the armor prototype on a normal human and everytime he moved he broke a bone and as he convulsed from the pain the armor jerked him so hard he kept breaking bones and tearing organs and ligiments till the man died. the master chief is pretty fast. and who isnt getting that he would be fencing off the lightsaber with a plasma sword? heck.... give MC a jackal shield as well

[Tenric Starkindler]

Well it seems patently unfair to offer MC his full arsenal of armor, weapon, shield, genetic enhancements, etc. and then start right off by limiting the Jedi. That reasoning points directly to the answer.....Jedi wins....if you have to handicap the fight that badly it seems obvious who would have the upper hand.

[DJMoonbass]

i didnt think i was limiting the jedi. he has the saber and force. just no choke, lightning, or shove. otherwise jedi has all other powers.

[Obi-Ben]

You don't need to put in limits to the Jedi. To quote Yoda, a Jedi uses the force for knowledge and defense, never for attack. So any real Jedi wouldn't use force choke or lightning.

[Nightwing]

Jedi still wins. Chief is way too slow for a Jedi, military training or no.

All the strength that his genetics grant him is nothing against an energy beam, and the Jedi are the best swordfighters in the galaxy. There's basically no way that a Spartan could win in a swordfight.

[Zero Unit]

Jedi still wins. Chief is way too slow for a Jedi, military training or no.

All the strength that his genetics grant him is nothing against an energy beam, and the Jedi are the best swordfighters in the galaxy. There's basically no way that a Spartan could win in a swordfight.

You'd be surprised. Spartan-IIs are already 20x faster than average, and the MJOLNIR armour ups that and the strength five-fold. Not 5 times, five fold, which is more than that. Combine that with an AI calculating the physics and possible movements and feeding them to the soldier, the Spartan-II has the upper-hand over a Jedi. It would take one hit to kill the or seriously injure the Jedi, but the lightsaber cannot go through shields...I have never ever run across an instance in Star Wars where a lightsaber defeats shielding...why else would the Jedi run from Droidekas?

Chief wins.

[Sairon]

Jedi wins, Master chief is a ballistics warrior not a swords man. Now if it were a challange between them with blasters, Master Chief would win.

[Nightwing]

It would take one hit to kill the or seriously injure the Jedi, but the lightsaber cannot go through shields...I have never ever run across an instance in Star Wars where a lightsaber defeats shielding...why else would the Jedi run from Droidekas?
Hmm... I forgot about the shields.
However, I have to wonder how strong they really are. I mean, they do break down after a while. Would a saber not act as a super-powerful way to break through the shields?

Also, Droideka shields are only ray-shields. If a Jedi is close enough, he/she can just reach through the shield with their saber off, then turn it on once inside the shield. I think the Spartan shields are velocity-based, though, so I'm not sure how they'd work against a saber.

I also think that a Jedi's predictive vision at least puts them on-par with a Spartan's speed and reflexes. It'd take an extremely upper-class Jedi (Windu, Yoda, or Obi-Wan in ROTS), but a Jedi should still be able to win.

[DJMoonbass]

You're right. Dang I was hoping that the chief would has some hope for victory. But your right about the shielding. Although the chief would be faster, way faster IMO he wouldn't be able to fence off a Jedi. Who's main weopon is a lightsaber. The closest thing I've seen to Jedi vs chief is Haloid. Google it it's a kick butt movie Made by monty oam.

[Tradeliphine]

I agree with the earlier poster that youre handicapping the fight to master chief so much that it points to the fact that the jedi is better, now youre letting chief have his shield but the jedi still cant shove him? And yes armor is restricting, no matter how much it is AI driven, or cybernetically tweaked, anyone who has ever worn any kind of armor, suit, or costume can tell you, it impedes your movement range, and limits your field of vision. And if you want to get that technical, then FINE, jedi would win because after 100 regular clashes or what is it? 20 lunge attacks the plasma sword would be out of energy, if darth maul would have had a plasma sword that means he would have been dead well before the energy shields and quigon would still be alive

[DJMoonbass]

Your right. Master chief doesn't stand a chance now that you have put it that way. I forgot that plasma swords run out. LOL. Jedi wins.

[sekrogue1985]

how is this a contest see taking away the jedi's use of the force basically make it pointless and not really saying it is a jedi. it is really pointless to argue this honestly cause you put restrictions on the jedi yet giving MC full access. seriously if this was really a contest you wouldn't need to handicap any of them ya know. but yeah get if it was a fight no handicaps jedi hands down plus this is a forum full of lightsaber addict you think we would favor MC.

[Darth Cipher]

how is this a contest see taking away the jedi's use of the force basically make it pointless and not really saying it is a jedi.

First I don't disagree with you, but I believe the point of the question was to determine which warrior, MC or Jedi, is better at hand to hand combat, with there respective technology. MC is limited from using his ranged weapons, namely guns, as is the Jedi with the force attacks. The Jedi has the ability to use the force for his(or her) defense, MC has his shield.

The precog put the Jedi's reflexes on par with MC's, but MC has more physical strength than a Jedi. The shield MC uses wears down, which would allow MC to be hit a few times before the lightsaber would bust through, which wouldn't take long as Jedi are some of the best swordsmen, on top of the fact that the plasma sword only lasts for so long. The plasma sword doesn't seem to be designed for actual dueling either...but I am very likely wrong on this point.

[Zero Unit]

Hmm... I forgot about the shields.
However, I have to wonder how strong they really are. I mean, they do break down after a while. Would a saber not act as a super-powerful way to break through the shields?

Also, Droideka shields are only ray-shields. If a Jedi is close enough, he/she can just reach through the shield with their saber off, then turn it on once inside the shield. I think the Spartan shields are velocity-based, though, so I'm not sure how they'd work against a saber.

I also think that a Jedi's predictive vision at least puts them on-par with a Spartan's speed and reflexes. It'd take an extremely upper-class Jedi (Windu, Yoda, or Obi-Wan in ROTS), but a Jedi should still be able to win.

The shields are not velocity-based. The only thing that can pass through them is air; solids do not pass, nor do liquids. The lightsaber blade is energy, yes, but that would probably get messed with by the magnetics. Shields have a "slippery" feel, and as such the Spartan must lower the level on the palms and soles of the boots to maintain traction.

@Tradeliphine:
If you've read the books, you know that MJOLNIR armour is not restrictive, and is actually the contrary. If you look at how it's made, you can see why. Medieval armour covered every part it could. MJOLNIR leaves all of the joints exposed, and the midriff is a set of overlapping plates to grant flexibility in that area. That, and because it enhances strength and reflexes (it's powered...it doesn't totally rely on the user's strength to move like armours of old) of the user, it grants more mobility than you or I have.

Also, plasma sword limit was placed for game-play purposes (it would be too easy if it were infinite), and cannot be considered canon. Hell, neither could the infinite sword, since that was also a gameplay mechanic. Suffice it to say, I think the plasma sword would last just as long as a lightsaber. And in this fight, I doubt the Chief would just do lunges and basic slashes...you are trying to apply gameplay restrictions to something outside the game; it doesn't work. It would be like saying Jedi can only behave as they did in Star Wars: Battlefront II.

To be honest, the plasma sword has a horrible layout for duelling in the first place; the Chief would probably better off tossing the sword, dodging a swing and grabbing the Jedi's arm, snapping it, and tossing him to the ground so hard it breaks his back, which is not something a Jedi or Sith has the option of doing because they are generally A.) not nearly strong enough do do that and B.)have their hands full with the lightsaber. And I daresay a Jedi is toast in hand-to-hand with the Spartan...not even a Force Push would make him lose grip; the Jedi would just come along for the ride.

[/Halo nerd]

[Nightwing]

But can Spartan shields block a SUPERLASER?!?!? O_O


http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/dvd/zs/anh/aldnds3.jpg
http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Tech/Beam/DeathStar3.jpg
http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Tech/Beam/Boom.jpg


Empire wins.

[Lord Preston]

Also, plasma sword limit was placed for game-play purposes (it would be too easy if it were infinite), and cannot be considered canon. Hell, neither could the infinite sword, since that was also a gameplay mechanic..[/I]

Uh, not true, the energy sword did run out of energy. How is it not canon, it's in the games, books, and both run out of energy.


To be honest, the plasma sword has a horrible layout for duelling in the first place; the Chief would probably better off tossing the sword, dodging a swing and grabbing the Jedi's arm, snapping it, and tossing him to the ground so hard it breaks his back, which is not something a Jedi or Sith has the option of doing because they are generally A.) not nearly strong enough do do that and B.)have their hands full with the lightsaber. And I daresay a Jedi is toast in hand-to-hand with the Spartan...not even a Force Push would make him lose grip; the Jedi would just come along for the ride.

Still not true. I'm positive a force push would be more than enough to send Chief back. Plus his armor weighs him down, making the Jedi, (who have had years of traning) more than able able to take down the Chief. Plus, Jedi are trained to be calm and relaxed during combat. The Chief uses brute force and agression during fights.

[Hasid Lafre]

Nightwing I got one better

http://www.icanhasforce.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/star-wars-alderaan-shot-first.jpg

[Darth Cipher]

Plus his armor weighs him down, making the Jedi, (who have had years of traning) more than able able to take down the Chief. Plus, Jedi are trained to be calm and relaxed during combat. The Chief uses brute force and agression during fights.

His armor inst just armor....it increases his strength and speed, therefore does not slow him down. This sort of armor is actually being developed today (and it is wicked cool). And for your next point, military training teaches you to be calm and calculated, especially specialized training, such as a spartan would receive. Just cause he has all the muscle doesn't me its his only way of fighting.

[Lord Preston]

But would he be able to use the force? Just because your a super soldier doesn't mean your unbeatable.

[Thaxos]

Jedi would win, hands down.
As for any type of strength competition, the Jedi could use the Force. As we all know, "size matters not". With the Force, the Jedi would have a huge advantage, even when not using it directly on MC, he/she can still use it to their own advantage and aiding their speed, strength, jumping, etc.

[Tenric Starkindler]

AI predictive algorithms + MC reflexes vs. Jedi precognitive awareness......
Jedi would know what MC was going to do before the AI finished giving him the data....Jedi Wins.

MC + Mjolnir Armor strength Vs. Jedi using force to lift MC off his feet w/o needing to touch him......Jedi's advantage.

Military training in combat/arms/tactics Vs. Jedi training in tactics/combat/Force use and Force sense....advantage Jedi since the Force sense is precognitive and the Force use could slow or stop MC from even swinging. No fight then. Jedi holds MC motionless and lectures him on the virtues of peace and non-violence....

[Ideal]

this is like the Goku/Superman debate. neither side is really even paying attention to the other side's views and trying to introduce logic into the arguement just makes it worse

knowing very little about Halo, i wont get too heavy into this, but in the games, all it takes is a buttstock to the back of the head for an instant death, even with the shields on. i imagine a Mace Windu or the like would be able to isolate some weaknesses and take a Spartan down

[Onli-Won Kanomi]

Master Chief wasn't trained as an adult, "John" was taken from his family in childhood by Dr Halsey and trained militarily in Spec Ops by ONI from six years old...and unlike Jedi younglings much of whose training was to make them NOT be a danger to themselves or others with their Force powers the Spartan Project 'younglings' were trained since early childhood to BE dangerous in every way and specifically as SOLDIERS something Jedi werent trained to be which is why the Republic had a Grand Army of MANDALORIAN clones created afterall instead of cloning Jedi...UNSC Spartans like their ancient namesake and like Mandos could train from childhood to become ever MORE deadly every day every way and every mission without worrying about falling to a 'Dark Side' of a 'Force' and were thus purely and perfected warriors; not 'peacekeepers', 'negotiatiors' or 'guardians of peace and justice'.

And lets not forget the Clonetroopers managed to kill plenty of Jedi in Order 66 and the Temple assault despite NOT being genetically or surgically enhanced and without Mjolnir powered-armour that enhanced the already superhuman speed and strength UNSC Spartans have.

Also the Mjolnir armour shields would prevent 'cutting' strokes from a lightsaber...its just plain wrong to suggest they are only impact/velocity shields - thats what Mass Effect shields work like but in the Haloverse the Mjolnir shields were reverse-engineered from the energy shields of the Sangheili 'Elites' which were designed to repel COVENANT weapons many of which were energy-based not merely velocity-based projectiles...and the Mjolnir shields can take SEVERAL SECONDS of energy weapon fire which is longer than any 'cutting stroke' of a lightsaber lasts.

Yes a prolonged 'Qui-Gon vs blast door' saber contact 'stab' would surely collapse Mjolnir shields but would a Spartan just stand there that long? Not bloody likely - [s]he'd STOMP any Jedi who tried...no question that in 'hand to hand' tussling Spartans could pulverize a human strength unarmoured Jedi...or could just pull the Jedi's arms off like a Wookie lol.

Spartan-117 in particular would be even more formidable against Jedi or anyone for two reasons.

First; Cortana. The most advanced model A.I. in the UNSC even before Halo CE and having grown exponentially from assimilating not only enormous amounts of Covenant data from several Cov A.I.s but also having assimilated the Forerunner databases in three Halos, the Ark, and also the race-memory of a Gravemind.

Its quite clear from Halo III that Cortana has gone RAMPANT A.I. [if you arent a long time Bungie fan Google it lol] perhaps as early as CE but definitely during the Gravemind captivity...apparently shes gone beyond that to STABLE Rampancy by the end of Halo III which would make her incalculably formidable with the full strategic and tactical and other knowledge of FOUR 'civilizations' and with her installed MC would be near unstoppable short of "nuke the site from orbit, its the only way to be sure" [which would apply as much to Jedi].

Second: as Cortana's voiceover from Halo III points out John-117 himself has something all his own beyond any other Spartans was the reason she chose him out of all the Spartans:

Luck.

If you have read Larry Niven's Ringworld [as Bungie's writers clearly did] and other Known Space works you'll understand the significance of this;

Master Chief is a 'TEELA'.

'superhuman' Tactical Precognition would be ALMOST unbeatable.

'superhuman' LUCK beats EVERYTHING.

Advantage: Chief.

[Darth Cipher]

im not saying hes unbeatable. i believe the jedi would win, im just saying the armor isnt a handicap for melee combat.

[Lord Preston]

im not saying hes unbeatable. i believe the jedi would win, im just saying the armor isnt a handicap for melee combat.

Then why don't the Jedi use it? It says armor does restrict movement.

[Darth Siggious]

And lets not forget the Clonetroopers managed to kill plenty of Jedi in Order 66 and the Temple assault despite NOT being genetically or surgically enhanced and without Mjolnir powered-armour that enhanced the already superhuman speed and strength UNSC Spartans have.

This part kind of bugged me in the movie, seemed like the Jedi were taken down way too easily.

Alright, back to the topic.

[Onli-Won Kanomi]

Then why don't the Jedi use it? It says armor does restrict movement.

In Star Wars armour is mostly unpowered...it has to be moved by the wearers own strength, which if it is a heavy element like Mandalorian iron in Mando Beskar is going to slow down a wearer...also it seems to be relatively full coverage in the case of clone/strormtroopers resistive PLATE armour...and specifically in the case of Jedi apparently armour restricts Force-users connection to the Force in some way that limits certain Force abilities...imo this seems a bit like a 'gameplay mechanic' and I note that in the Clone Wars series it seems Obi and Ani wear armour almost all through every episode though their armour is not full body.

Mjolnir armour is powered armour so it enhances physical ability but it is not full coverage suit-of-plate hard armour...most of it is soft armour and absorptive rather than resistive...apparently it uses a 'smart' gel that can be selectively pressurized as we see in MC falling from several km height in Halo III and similar events described in the Halo books so appears to be an advancement of the new 'shear hardening' liquid armours just beginning to come into use IRL...since much of the Mjolnir armour especially around joints is LIQUID state not solid then there would be virtually no more motion restriction in such armour than waving ones arms underwater...for a superstrong superfast Spartan that wouldnt slow them at all and in any event the Mjolnir armour is powered so moves itself.

Then where there is hard plate it is overlapping much like Roman lorica segmentata so pretty flexible, and again is powered not unpowered.

Haloverse Mjolnir armour is clearly advanced way beyond Trooper/Mando/Jedi armour in the SW Galaxy [even though by Forerunner standards it is primitive according to Guilty Spark and not considered Flood-worthy] ...then again the ONI only had to spring for a few dozen sets of Mjolnir not millions so maybe Ol Palpy skimped on good Trooper armour to pay for his Death Stars eh? LOL

[DJMoonbass]

But can Spartan shields block a SUPERLASER?!?!? O_O


http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/dvd/zs/anh/aldnds3.jpg
http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Tech/Beam/DeathStar3.jpg
http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Tech/Beam/Boom.jpg


Empire wins.

Awsome!!! No he would be vaped. Intact all matter of the chief would cease to excist.

[Zero Unit]

But would he be able to use the force? Just because your a super soldier doesn't mean your unbeatable.

Just because you are a Sith/Jedi doesn't mean you are unbeatable as well. And all Force Pushes I've seen/read about are actually rather pathetic, save one, where the Night Hammer was flung to another star system (and that killed the Jedi who did it). As for the sword running out, maybe I need to reread the books, because I don't ever recall them using swords, nor do I recall any instance where it ran out...as a matter of fact, in the Picture Novel, the sword lasted the whole way through The Final Flight of the Infinite Succor.

Yes, Jedi can add to their strength and speed, but, only to a point. Chief is already at that point.

As for Death Star vs. Chief, can they even target something so small? :p A Covenant ship, which I daresay has more accurate weapons than any starship weapons in Star Wars, couldn't hit him.

[sekrogue1985]

Just because you are a Sith/Jedi doesn't mean you are unbeatable as well. And all Force Pushes I've seen/read about are actually rather pathetic, save one, where the Night Hammer was flung to another star system (and that killed the Jedi who did it). As for the sword running out, maybe I need to reread the books, because I don't ever recall them using swords, nor do I recall any instance where it ran out...as a matter of fact, in the Picture Novel, the sword lasted the whole way through The Final Flight of the Infinite Succor.

Yes, Jedi can add to their strength and speed, but, only to a point. Chief is already at that point.

As for Death Star vs. Chief, can they even target something so small? :p A Covenant ship, which I daresay has more accurate weapons than any starship weapons in Star Wars, couldn't hit him.

why would they need to talk nuke the whole ** planet.

[Titoshi]

This part kind of bugged me in the movie, seemed like the Jedi were taken down way too easily.

Alright, back to the topic.

The reason the clone troopers were so able to take out their commanding Jedi Generals was because order 66 was pre-programmed into their dna.That being said, the order and their actual actions were completely subconscious and put off no malicious ripples in the force. That is how the clones were able to pick off the generals without alerting the jedi. Yoda escaped just because George Lucas needed him for continuity.

As for the Jedi versus Master Chief. it would solely depend on the individual jedi and it would probably come down to whom ran outta juice first. But armor cannot counter act the force, there are several techniques and force powers that a jedi could use that would not even require him/her to engage in physical combat. But if the jedi didn't use any force powers, they may as well just bend over and take it with a smile.

[Onli-Won Kanomi]

Some good points there but if the Death Star can blow the entire planet apart from under him they really don't have to hit him personally with any accuracy methinks.

Death Star is kinda a cheat though...there arent many characters or even objects in any fictional milieu that could survive a hit or even near hit from the Death Star superlaser.

DC:

Superman and other Kryptonians and Kryptonite
Oans, Oan power batteries and GL rings
Daxamites
Braniac-5 with his shield belt on
The Miracle Machine in its inertron box
Wonder Womans golden lasso

Marvel:

Dark Phoenix
Galactus
Beyonder
Celestials
Cap's vibranium/adamantium shield
Wolverines adamantium skeleton [but not the fleshy bits]
Ultrons adamantium body

ST:
Q
V'Ger
Organians?
TOS Doomday Machine aka Planet Killer's neutronium shell [but its internals would be vulnerable IF it was angled such that the DS superlaser could fire down it's 'throat'...on the other hand a ST:TOS Doomsday Machine is the ORIGINAL 'lightsaber' that can CARVE whole planets with its antiproton beam/blade so that would be an interesting matchup]

...thats all I can think of off the top of my head...not much even in fiction could survive a Death Star

[Lord Preston]

I think Jedi would win.

[Zero Unit]

The reason the clone troopers were so able to take out their commanding Jedi Generals was because order 66 was pre-programmed into their dna.That being said, the order and their actual actions were completely subconscious and put off no malicious ripples in the force. That is how the clones were able to pick off the generals without alerting the jedi. Yoda escaped just because George Lucas needed him for continuity.

As for the Jedi versus Master Chief. it would solely depend on the individual jedi and it would probably come down to whom ran outta juice first. But armor cannot counter act the force, there are several techniques and force powers that a jedi could use that would not even require him/her to engage in physical combat. But if the jedi didn't use any force powers, they may as well just bend over and take it with a smile.

This.

There are only three powers that are impervious to the armour and conditioning completely: Life Drain, Choke, and Kill. Jedi can't/don't use any of those.

[Nightwing]

The reason the clone troopers were so able to take out their commanding Jedi Generals was because order 66 was pre-programmed into their dna.That being said, the order and their actual actions were completely subconscious and put off no malicious ripples in the force.
Actually, Order 66 wasn't programmed into them; their unwavering loyalty to their commander (Palpatine) was. (a few of the commando units rebelled, however.) But you are correct that their actions weren't malicious, and therefore caused little-to-no warning.