Waterproof Saber??

[cardcollector]

I recently had an idea- It may be a crazy/useless one. But then again it may be BRILLIANT!!!:rolleyes:

So here it is: How about making a waterproof lightsaber???:cool:

Is it possible?? What do you think??:p

[Sairon]

With no sound, I think it is definitly posible if everything is sealed.

[$tarkiller]

You didnt say it had to have electronics, so yes it is possible. Get one from Random sabers, and an acrylic blade. There ya have it. ;)

[Lord Maul]

Sure it is. The easiest way would be to put O-rings between MHS hilt sections and cinch it down really tight. The hardest parts are the emitter and switch hole. For the switch you would probably just epoxy it in. The blade would likely need to be permanently affixed, via epoxy again.

[MasterRoop]

easy! just put to crystals! :D JK

that would be a good idea for building it. put two crystals to make it look real.

[sekrogue1985]

i think i saw an ultrasabers demo where they threw a couple of their stunts in the pool

[Jedi-Loreen]

Yeah, I saw that, but those were their PVC sabers. Not made of several metal parts screwed together.

[Sairon]

Cardcollector didn't say it had to be a mhs saber, but metal does look much better then PVC.

[cardcollector]

I was thinking of using sinktube.
Would it be possible with sound and a LED?

Who's up to the Callenge!!:cool:

[Lord Maul]

Sound, no. LED, yes.

Sound requires holes to let the sound out. A waterproof saber has to be sealed.

[MasterRoop]

it might be posible to do sound if you dont drill any holes for sound. just have it vibrate through the metal.

[Sairon]

I can see it now, part of bop III under water!

[Novastar]

Underwater.
There's a thought.

That would replace the "simulated slow-motion" stuff, huh?

:D

[Obi-Ben]

I don't see why a speaker HAS to have holes. A waterproof film could seal the speaker holes, but still allow decent sound transmission. Or you could work out a system where the hilt itself acts as the speaker.

[sekrogue1985]

Yeah, I saw that, but those were their PVC sabers. Not made of several metal parts screwed together.

yeah forgot that part :p but yeah whoever does it it'll rock

[Titoshi]

water actually amplifies sound to a degree, and with some research I am sure you can find a way to waterproof a speaker. As for the blade, you can still have it removable, just seal off the led area with a clear round lens (clear filter perhaps) and epoxy. Teflon tape and o-rings will definitely take care of the thread gaps. As for a switch, the standard one Tim sells with one of those rubber boots glued around the seam should work quite nicely. Of course this all speculation;)

[Sethski]

Re the speaker and waterproofing: as the face of the speaker is one piece of one material (that looks like it'd be waterproof?) I'd have thought that having the edges/seams where they meet the inside of the saber sealed with sealant/glue would be good enough for that part?

I don't think I'd want to take my saber to the pool (lol) - but it'd be great to be able to have a moody duel in a storm without the likelyhood of ruining your sabers :cool:

Also makes me think of sound fonts - again not so much underwater ones, but it'd be great to have a font that gave the effect of a saber in a torrential downpour, with the hissing of the rain boiling and steaming as it hit the blade and intermittent mini-clash and flicker effects.

[cardcollector]

That's what I was thinking- Dueling in a storm!!!
How cool would that be?!?!?!:cool:

[Novastar]

I don't see why a speaker HAS to have holes. A waterproof film could seal the speaker holes, but still allow decent sound transmission. Or you could work out a system where the hilt itself acts as the speaker.Does this come from experience and knowledge regarding sound and resonance and the way sound wavelengths behave, or... are you just guessing? :)

Here's a test for everyone. If you have any kind of saber with sound--maybe you have an FX. That will work, because most FX sabers solely have one area for sound to escape--the pommel.

Cover the pommel's speaker holes with your hand. The rest will be elementary. :)

[Eco]

Novastar, isn't what makes the sound the actual vibration of air (or water or whatever medium you're using)?
In the case of a sinktube saber, solidly attaching the speaker to the walls of the tube will cause the whole hilt to vibrate and produce sound, albeit very low pitched and very quiet.

Or, rather than a speaker, using a motor attached to the tube-walls that changes it's speed according to the sound input from a board.

And credibility to that last one?

[swear000]

I see a BOP V kinda thing titled: Jedis under Submersion

It involves a new breed of jedi spawned from Gungan heritage. The ability for the new jedi to breed under water has caused contemplation of a new underwater defense system (similar to a underwater concussion grenade). Their new plans are under threat of being taken by a new line of waterproof nanobots. Hero Novastar must ultimately destroy them and their nefarious leader: A new vader who wears all chainmail and interacts with electrical fields to power the nanites.....

[Novastar]

Novastar, isn't what makes the sound the actual vibration of air (or water or whatever medium you're using)?
In the case of a sinktube saber, solidly attaching the speaker to the walls of the tube will cause the whole hilt to vibrate and produce sound, albeit very low pitched and very quiet.

Or, rather than a speaker, using a motor attached to the tube-walls that changes it's speed according to the sound input from a board.

And credibility to that last one?The wavelengths need places to GO (so we can hear)... and places to GROW (resonance + adding perceived volume).

I say--try the experiment that I suggested. Then try yours, Eco--I understand your point about trying to make the hilt ITSELF reverberate... but... trying to get around the fact that the wavelengths need to actually GO IN OUR BLOODY ears... is going to be somewhat futile.

I mean... you COULD encase the entire saber in a thin, plastic-like material... like... you know, imagine throwing it in a big zip lock bag or shrink tube wrapping or whatever. THAT would work, since the sound could "do alright" going through a thin layer of plastic...

...but...

One wrong move with the plastic housing... one pin prick... one drop... and you'd have trouble.

Plus, I think that (almost by default) you'd need to use pushbutton style switches for all types of switches... which isn't a big deal, but worth mentioning... and... ohhhhh I dunno, it seems like a big waste to me, heheh!

I mean, one wrong move and... it's curtains! COOIITANS!!! For the saber. :)

And... just as a side note... trying "waterproof" with CF?!?!? See this from Novastar you will not. Dangerous it is. Expensive loss it could be. :mrgreen:

[cardcollector]

Hey I found this by accident just browsing at Ultrasabers...
Watch all the Durability Video and you'll see what I mean.
http://www.ultrasabers.com/UK_INI_p/uk-ini.htm
How do they do that??? :shock:Does anybody have one of those??
That's exactly what I want my upcoming saber be able to do.

[Lord Maul]

It is just PVC pipe. Those sabers aren't metal. Notice that they don't show the hilt after those tests. It would be thrashed.

A metal saber could take that same beating, but like PVC, it would look like hell afterwards.

[cardcollector]

Oh, OK I see your point.;)
But wouldn't they still have to somehow seal the place where the blade is inserted, the end cap, and the switch. It was completely watertight.
Epoxy perhaps?

[Lord Maul]

They didn't keep those sabers underwater for too long of a time. It didn't have to be a perfect seal. The parts were tight enough not to let water pouring in, and that was all that was needed.

[Lord Preston]

Wouldn't it be hard to swing the blade underwater?

[Lord Maul]

Yup. Water has a greater resistance to movement that air. Just like you can't run in water

[Eco]

I hope those PVC sabers are sealed with something like teflon tape, rather than PVC cement.
Cement would make it rather hard to change the batteries.

@Novastar::
It's an experiment I may get to someday.
I haven't built a saber with sound yet, because it's not that important to me.
So... It may be a while before I get my hands on anything better than a plastic Hasbro board.

[Sethski]

I just watched that video - Wow! they really do take some punishment!

[cardcollector]

Wouldn't it be hard to swing the blade underwater?

Yes it would, but if you where fighting around a pool, lake, or something similar
how cool would it be to be able to push your opponent in the water before or after you killed him!!:mrgreen:

You couldn't really fight underwater anyway because we can't see (unless you have goggles),
and can only hold our breath for all of 30 seconds.:rolleyes:

A waterproof lightsaber would make dueling a lot more fun and open up more places you could fight.

[Darth Cipher]

That would be awesome! espesially for a film...

[DACOTA]

The way I see it Jacuzzis have waterproof speakers right? So there must be a way to replicate that for sabers with sound.

[Novastar]

You couldn't really fight underwater anyway because we can't see (unless you have goggles), and can only hold our breath for all of 30 seconds.:rolleyes:I'm certainly not advocating people trying this kind of thing, but... many people can hold their breath for longer than 30 seconds (I can)... you can see perfectly fine underwater in something like a swimming pool... and yes, obviously it would have to be a sort of "slow-mo" sequence, lol...

But at that point, I'd say... why not just use carbon fiber rods / sticks / whatever like saber fan films and roto-scope it later on? Unless you have the means and logistics and wherewithal to do the electronic sabers and throw those sabers out afterward...

...because believe me... they would NOT work right later on. Unless you covered them with shrink wrap or somethin'... you know what I mean. Waterproof for certain.

[Enolmano]

I have a very strong feeling that I've been discussing this before. Like a year (or possibly two) ago. I shall dig and share my results.

Found it: http://forums.thecustomsabershop.com/showthread.php?t=717&highlight=underwater

3 years ago. @#$. I've been lurking around here for some time now.
Pity I never have any money, so I could talk about something. Like building new sabers.

[Novastar]

Enol... please edit out the language, thank you. You have to remember--kids are watching.

Back to water-proofing a saber... again... clear shrink tubing. Done. And it's true that I'd recommend a special waterproof sealant for the blade tip, and for the blade where it enters the blade holder (permanent attachment).

It's also true that... if for ANY reason, the shrink tube / sealant leaked... that'd be the end of it--whether in "due time", or instantaneously.

It would be neat to see a 10 second (or more??) clip of two fighters diving in to some pool, lake, whatever... swimming to one another... and slow-motion "duke-in' it out". :D

[swear000]

would it count if I used a lightsaber in an underwater hotel?

http://www.geekologie.com/2008/02/27/underwater-hotel.jpg

[Enolmano]

No.

But you would instantly get 1 point for being cool.

[cardcollector]

Back to water-proofing a saber... again... clear shrink tubing. Done. And it's true that I'd recommend a special waterproof sealant for the blade tip, and for the blade where it enters the blade holder (permanent attachment).


Simply Brilliant NovaStar. 8)

[Silent_Jedi]

One issue would be pressure. A sealed saber would have a different pressure in water than outside, similar to a submarine. A thin membrane over the sound outlet could be a problem unless you actually introduce pressure to the "cabin" of the saber hilt before sealing it up.

Plus boyancy is another factor. Unless it's sealed up in a vaccume, it'll want to float to the surface. Granted, not really an issue with a MHS body with it's density, but a PVC or Sinktube would provide a huge problem in this area.

As for the blade being perminant, I don't see a reason why...just use a retaining screw and a rubber o-ring..or let the blade flood with water. Water is an excellent conduit for light, from what I remember from my basic physics classes.

I just might try this project myself..trickiest part would be sealing the activator switch. Perhaps a tactile switch with a rubber boot similar to them big ole flashlights. Heck, might just use that as a base for one!

[Novastar]

Plus boyancy is another factor. Unless it's sealed up in a vaccume, it'll want to float to the surface. Granted, not really an issue with a MHS body with it's density, but a PVC or Sinktube would provide a huge problem in this area.I agree, but... yes... I was assuming most people would use a metal hilt for this.


As for the blade being perminant, I don't see a reason why...just use a retaining screw and a rubber o-ring..or let the blade flood with water.I disagree entirely. If the blade floods with water, then the aperture that allows the optics to shine and focus the light from the LED inside the hilt... will get flooded. That's bad.

You could shrink wrap and cover THAT too... but... well that could be fairly difficult to keep from affecting the light... and/or ripping. If anyone shrink protected things from the INSIDE... that could help make it work. But it'd have to be a complex system of protective sealant to avoid problems. But it could work.

Additionally... if you flood an "Ultra" style blade with water (that is... poly-propylene base for the diffusion film)... umm... that film is gonna "MELT" over time. You might get ONE use... you might get TWO. But after it dries? It's over. Believe me--it's OVER. :)

Even if you use the TCSS filter--water + crevasses = mold and discoloration over time. You'd have to dry your "water stunt" blade after every use and clean it well. But that could work. :)

If we're all considering a totally EMPTY blade... well... it *might* work, but... I don't think you'd get what you'd expect from it. Not without the diffusers we're used to using.


Water is an excellent conduit for light, from what I remember from my basic physics classes.Very much agreed... water refracts light all over the place.


I just might try this project myself..trickiest part would be sealing the activator switch. Perhaps a tactile switch with a rubber boot similar to them big ole flashlights. Heck, might just use that as a base for one!Very much agreed. In fact:

* POMMEL SWITCH = a very good idea here
* After making the electronics package--I'd say... shrink protect the whole thing (electronics only)
* If you were careful enough--you might be able to shrink OVER the optics as well... and if the shrink tube is clear enough... you won't be killing/filtering TOO much light...
* You'd need to make certain your electronics could simply be "slid" into the hilt as "one unit". Quick disconnects would be useless, since they would compromise everything.
* Rechargeable cells would be best (IMHO)
* I have no idea how you'd recharge them without having to redo at LEAST one of the shrink tube sections after the cells were depleted. But I don't know... I think that could be figured out, and... whatever--if the whole thing had to be redone, so be it!!

* IMPORTANT -- you'd have to slightly modify the MHS blade/heatsink/mount things to accommodate the new inner diameter of the "shrunk over" heatsink/optic/LED area. It wouldn't be that much work, but... you'd have to take care of that!!!

If you then (for example) stuffed everything into a completed MHS hilt setup MINUS THE BLADE/LED/HEATSINK HOLDER... you'd be ready to hold the electronics in place (using a pencil/eraser?? through the holder's hole) and screw down the holder to the rest of the setup.

Screwing the pommel on: you'd want it somewhat "open-ended" so that you could depress the switch. Make sure it all fits in by pressure so that when you press at the ALREADY PROTECTED SWITCH... it can actually BE pressed without the whole electronics package moving further into the hilt.

*WHEW* :)

If that all makes any sense. But I will tell you... that COULD work, and the only two big issues I'd forsee would be:

* If the shrink wrapping inhibits the switch itself... that's trouble
* Recharging? You can't leave exposed wires... and... you can't seal the ENTIRE bloody thing in there if you wish to recharge: catch = 22. :D

Even if you use a non-rehchargeable pack... you cannot remove the cells without having to do SOME type of "re-shrinking"

Finally, the most major issue is just the obvious one:

* If the shrink tubing becomes compromised... it's OVER. :p

[cardcollector]

The biggest problem I see is it just takes guts to be able to toss a "waterproofed"(in theory) saber or even expose it to water?

You spend all this time making a saber to be water proof, heatshrink all the electronics you hooked up BY HAND, then you turn it on, toss it into the water and...

a) It works and you can't stop looking at how cool it looks under water and can brag on these forums on how YOU made the first waterproof saber...:cool:

b) There's a micro-tiny-"so small you could never see it" leak and all your hard work on the electronics are shorted out. Then you post your broken saber here and we all can learn from your mistakes...:rolleyes:

It's a WIN-TIE (kinda);)

[Novastar]

True, the time invested to see if it works would suck to lose, but...

...WHAT SABER MAKER HASN'T INVESTED HOURS OF WORK ONLY TO SEE AN IDEA GO "BUST" ON YA?!?!? :P

I know that I have personally spent hours on certain things... only to achieve very little for my strife, other than:

"Uhhh.... duuuhhh... hmm. Well... *sigh* I guess I won't be doing THAT again..."

:grin:

[cardcollector]

You live and Learn.
That's life.

[Lord Maul]

I will be making one on my next order, going in today or tomorrow ;)

[Eco]

What about coating the open wires of the recharge port in a clear epoxy?
Buddy of mine stripped his USB flash drive of it's casing and coated it in epoxy, and the part that's covered is waterproof.

In fact, I'd imagine that any of the exposed wires could be epoxied. You wouldn't be able to desolder anything if you ever needed to, but it's something.

(Of course, for the recharge port, you'd need to find a way to waterproof the actual plug of the port)

[Lord Maul]

What I will do is make a detachable recharge port clip so I can recharge the saber.

[Eco]

How are you going to make waterproof quick-connects?

[Lord Maul]

You shall see :)

[Eco]

ARGH!
The suspense is killing me!
xD

[cardcollector]

I will be making one on my next order, going in today or tomorrow ;)

All right Lord Maul!!!!:D:cool:;)

[Sairon]

Go LM! Can't wait to see it finished.

[Thaxos]

I cannot wait to see this, sounds like an awesome build!

[Novastar]

Personally, I REALLY would like to try this... just to do it. Not for any practical usage... but... let's see...

[[counts projects]]

...yeah. There's like 18 other projects going on. Literally. Man. If only I had a CREW or TEAM or something, hhahahahah. Well... I guess TCSS and DIY saber folks *ARE* a team, heheh. :cool:

[Lord Maul]

I'm making my way there... The pommel is waterproof now and I have the electronics done. I just need another MHS part to get in stock.