yhuzzan Vong

[DJMoonbass]

Okay for those of us that have rad the new jedi order. we know what and who the Yuuzhan Vong are. For those who have no clue: the yuuzhan vong where an extragalctic of warrior species that invaded the galaxy around 40 ABY. they were very formiddible and even where sometimes more than a match for the Jedi. The yuuzhan vong worshiped there own gods, and scarred and deformed there own body in worship to there creator God Yun Yuuzhzan, who gave up parts of his own body to create the yhuzzan vong. SO they worship and savor pain. for more info go here: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Yuuzhan_Vong

I think that the yuuzhan Vong deserve more credit to there part of history. The yhuzzan Vong where deadly and very formiddible. but i was hoping to get more info on there castes. So anyone?

[Darth_DevilGuy]

IMO they were a bad idea, the whole invasion was a bad plot device that ran for far too long, it annoyed me to no end that rather than make more interesting character driven stories the writers felt they had to resort to something that overblown to sell books.

[Swordlord]

I have to agree with DevilGuy on some levels. It seemed as if no one in the publishing business paid much attention to the fact that a galaxy is HUGE. Having extra-galactic antagonists was way over the top. The authors in that series mention many times that there are huge parts of the galaxy that are unexplored and uncharted.

Now, the Yuuzhan Vong aren't a bad plot device per se, but they could have been from rim systems within the current galaxy. And, the series went on waaayyy too long. It was as if Robert Jordan was writing The Wheel of Star Wars Time series.

[Darth_DevilGuy]

I'm not opposed to the idea of the yu'zhan vong, I liked some of the elements, the biotech and the religious aversion to regular tech was a good touch if not taken too far, unfortunately they seemed to take everything too far.

It was like reading novel length fan fiction, the thing that really did it for me were the Voxyn, they just had to take one of the best things in the EU (zahn's subtle take on the force and evolution) and turn it into a completely unrealistic and cliche'd generic super monster.

[Darth Demens]

I gotta agree on the subject of the Vong. Too out there, too long, and generally speaking, they ended some great story arcs by killing off the person that the arc finally got you to appreciate and come to love.

Frankly, I would rather have seen something intra-galactic happen. Chiss, Hapans, there's so many things in the current galaxy that are unknown or unexplored that bringing in an extra-galactic enemy just seemed over the top.

Frankly, despite a couple of decent books in the NJO, I really do blame that arc (as well as the shifting around between authors who couldn't quite seem to agree on exactly what the Vong were or were doing in our galaxy) for driving me away from the EU books. Frankly, I liked it much better when each author had their own little list of characters that they would use in addition to the main ones to tell their story. Once the sharing of universes started, I got the impression that some characters were suddenly acting 'off' of themselves, just because they were being written by someone else.

[mmafighter]

I have to agree with the rests of the posts. It was a little drawn out, However, I will have to disagree that they were more a match for the jedi. If I can remember correctly, the jedi never directly engaged in combat with the vong.

[Nightwing]

I have absolutely no problem with the Vong.

Yes, they were there for a long time, but they were the main plot thread of the NJO, which is still perhaps the only truly epic Star Wars novel series ever made. The Thrawn Trilogy may be the best novels ever written in the EU, but the NJO eclipses them with its development of new & old characters, non-derivative storyline, and true progression.

While I ultimately prefer the Galactic Empire as the "big villains," the Vong were a much better foe for the Jedi, and it made sense to have them as the villains in the New Jedi Order.

[Swordlord]

I have to agree with the rests of the posts. It was a little drawn out, However, I will have to disagree that they were more a match for the jedi. If I can remember correctly, the jedi never directly engaged in combat with the vong.
Politely, you are incorrect. Many Jedi fought the Vong face-to-face.

[Darth Demens]

I have to agree with the rests of the posts. It was a little drawn out, However, I will have to disagree that they were more a match for the jedi. If I can remember correctly, the jedi never directly engaged in combat with the vong.

Heck, pretty much all of Star by Star was face-to-face. And lets not forget the 1v1 between Corran Horn and the Vong battle leader on Ithor. In fact, almost every time a Jedi went against a Vong, the Jedi came out the winner. The few that weren't were either Jedi vs. Groups of Vong, or Jedi vs. Vong/Vornskr.

[mmafighter]

after further research, I stand corrected. I had only read a handfull of comics with the vong plus the chronological book. Thanks guys!:)

[Nightwing]

Heck, pretty much all of Star by Star was face-to-face. And lets not forget the 1v1 between Corran Horn and the Vong battle leader on Ithor. In fact, almost every time a Jedi went against a Vong, the Jedi came out the winner. The few that weren't were either Jedi vs. Groups of Vong, or Jedi vs. Vong/Vornskr.Well hey, when you've got your main characters up against a threat, you can't exactly have them die, right?

I think the idea was that the Vong were a very real threat. After all, they nearly killed Corran and Jacen several times in only the first two books. The only Jedi to really stand up to them and easily beat them in hand-to-hand combat (that early on) was Luke, the Jedi Grand Master.
Let's not forget that the Vong aren't part of the Force, and therefore are not easily fought by the Jedi.

[LordJaivus]

I just wanna know why they felt it neccessary to kill off Chewie!

[Nightwing]

I just wanna know why they felt it neccessary to kill off Chewie!
I actually think that that worked. Besides, everyone has to die eventually, right?
And Chewie was really more of a pet to Han & Leia; it's not like he's a character that could develop. Also, his death allowed for deeper development with Han.

[Darth_DevilGuy]

I actually think that that worked. Besides, everyone has to die eventually, right?
And Chewie was really more of a pet to Han & Leia; it's not like he's a character that could develop. Also, his death allowed for deeper development with Han.

100% disagree, I liked chewie as a character, and while I hate to drag the thrawn trilogy back into it he wasn't a pet there, but a character with his own opinions that you saw time and again.

Honestly I think killing chewie was the biggest gaff of the whole series, it was a cop out that gave all the characters something to brood over, but didn't have the poignancy that real tragedy should, TBH killing off major characters in an on going series is one of the biggest hallmarks of writers not knowing WTF they're doing.

[beggarsoutpost]

100% disagree, I liked chewie as a character, and while I hate to drag the thrawn trilogy back into it he wasn't a pet there, but a character with his own opinions that you saw time and again.

Honestly I think killing chewie was the biggest gaff of the whole series, it was a cop out that gave all the characters something to brood over, but didn't have the poignancy that real tragedy should, TBH killing off major characters in an on going series is one of the biggest hallmarks of writers not knowing WTF they're doing.

I totally agree.......NJO worst Star Wars story ever......

[Nightwing]

Honestly I think killing chewie was the biggest gaff of the whole series, it was a cop out that gave all the characters something to brood over, but didn't have the poignancy that real tragedy should, TBH killing off major characters in an on going series is one of the biggest hallmarks of writers not knowing WTF they're doing.
Nah, it had poignancy. I honestly don't see the problem. Like I said, EVERYONE has to die at some point. Why not actually show Chewbacca's death? After all, his death galvanized the Solo and Skywalker families into a fire-forged force against the Vong.
The series was named the New Jedi Order for a reason; it was the Jedi's story. It dealt with the maturing of the Solo children, Luke struggling to control the order, and the Jedi Order as a whole in their fight to save the Galaxy.
Sadly, Chewbacca didn't really have a place in that story, but his death served to make everything else more compelling.

That's the interesting thing about death in the family (and I speak from personal experience). It often seems pointless and empty, but it ALWAYS forces those close to the deceased to become stronger and get a new perspective on life.

[DJMoonbass]

wow all this has givin alot of insight on others oppinions about the yuuzhan Vong. I get where you all are coming from about going a little overboard woth the series. It is a very long series. But i still i am very interested with the whole Vong Race. Allthough i will never stray from the Force i still am fascinated by there way of life.... it was very unfair about what happened to
Ithor and to Chewie. I was very mad about Chewie....

[chase]

I agree and don't agree. I think it was a great idea to show that the galaxy COULD be invaded and almost destroyed, that they DO have a weakness, along with the Jedi. Should it have gone on for 20 books? No. Some of the characters from the Yuuzhan Vong are pretty interesting, the way they think and all...but they were religous fanatics. Some of the Jedi characters who died, could have gone out better...but some couldn't have died any other way. I think in a whole, the series is good but too long.

I'm also going to chime in about Chewies death. I've always been a big fan of Chewie, and of the movies...but it's the books that got me REALLY into Star Wars. When he died...honestly, I almost cried. It sucked, but it got me thinking. Not everyone around that group of characters is death proof like we all thought. It was a big chance they took, but a necessary one I think.

[DJMoonbass]

the books are what make up most of the starwars universe. not meaning to go off topic but in Sacrifice by kathy tyres in the LOTF series i did cry when mara jade died. the way anikin Solo went out was really cool. but in a tragic sort of way. they killed off alot of the good characters in NJO

[Titoshi]

I have not finished the series because I got distracted by getting a killer deal on the legacy of the force series (all of them in hardcover for 50 bucks or so), but I like what i read so far. I was bummed that Chewie got the Samuel Jackson treatment, but if it was going to happen, at least it was a pretty well known and respected writer to do it. It was also nice to read books that didn't center around Luke so heavily also. The Fact that the Vong wanted to kill everyone, not just Luke, and the fact that Luke couldn't or didn't save the galaxy by himself, again, is nice. Besides, if you want to read something truly pointless read the Truce at Bakura or the Dark Nest trilogy.

[JedimasterJSA]

Just have to throw in my two cents here...
I don't think that the whole series was a complete waste of time. I don't remember who in the series said it, or maybe it was someone in the LotF series, but someone said that the Vong war was almost a relief. I mean for the past how-ever-many-thousand-years, every major conflict in the galaxy has come down to Jedi v Sith. To have this really strong force (and does it really matter where[I] they're from?) come in and take over half of the galaxy, including Coruscant itself, before they can finally be pushed back. It was a nice respite from the Sith. Did it go on a little too long, perhaps. But this was a pretty major event and would require at least a half dozen books and probably even a full dozen in order to tell the story properly.

As for Chewie's death, it's like chase said, "It sucked, but it got me thinking. Not everyone around that group of characters is death proof like we all thought." Ever since Luke first blew up the death star and escaped Vader, he and everyone connected to the Skywalkers had been living a charmed life. Now 40-some-odd years later, they are all [I]still surviving against insurmountable odds, and every one has come to just expect them to all survive. That, more than anything, will hinder progress in the Star Wars universe. So how do the authors break this bubble of invincibility surrounding the Skywalker-Solo clan? But at the same time, not upset their entire fan base and push them all away from their books (becuase lets admit, the ultimate gaol is to sell their books ;))? The answer... kill Chewie. He is a big character and he is connected to the Skywalker-Solos, but at the same time, he is not the main focus of the story. So they kill Chewie. Pop the invisible bubble, and now the way is clear to kill others like Anakin, and later Mara and Jacen.

Anyways, sorry to ramble, but I had to get my opinion out there. :)

[Nightwing]

Pop the invisible bubble, and now the way is clear to kill others like Anakin, and later Mara and Jacen.
Little off-topic, but I have to say that I LOVE the fact that Jacen turned Dark-Side. He was always an odd one, and his choice seemed to fit his character. Furthermore, making Jaina the one take him down was amazing, as it showed that she really is (along with Ben Skywalker) the "true heir" to the Skywalker/Solo legacy. I hope she gets a lot more focus in the future.

[beggarsoutpost]

Except the real reason they killed Chewie was because the group of writers that created the Vong story arc did not want to write stories involving him...They felt that Chewie was one dimensional and boring and that none of the writers that would be asked to partisapate would be able to do anything interesting with the character...So they asked LFL if it would be alright to kill him off.....They used it as a plot turn in the story to create an uneasy feeling in the reader for the safety of the other characters....but they only ditched him because they did not want to write him....Lame.....

[Nightwing]

Except the real reason they killed Chewie was because the group of writers that created the Vong story arc did not want to write stories involving him...They felt that Chewie was one dimensional and boring and that none of the writers that would be asked to partisapate would be able to do anything interesting with the character...So they asked LFL if it would be alright to kill him off.....They used it as a plot turn in the story to create an uneasy feeling in the reader for the safety of the other characters....but they only ditched him because they did not want to write him....Lame.....

To be quite honest, I myself am a sci-fi/fantasy author and I don't think I'd want to do anything with him either. I don't think I would have thought to kill him off, but he would have just sat there in the c0ckpit doing nothing.
When you've got a character that's essentially only a slave to the main characters and can't even speak Basic, you've got a problem. He works on-screen, but in novel form things get really weird. All you can really do is say "Chewbacca is angered by this" or "Chewbacca tears the limbs off of that."

Having him die had way more impact than anything else he could have done in the NJO. Before his death, he was simply a mechanic and copilot. After his sacrifice, he was a fully-realized character that forever changed the rest of the story.

[Swordlord]

Well, to un-derail this thread from the "I CAN'T BELIEVE THEY KILLED CHEWIE!!!" waaaahhhmbulance drivers....

The concepts of the Vong really aren't all that new.
They have a strong code of honor that is based on militaristic foundations (rather like feudal Japan).
They are aggressive, predatory and have a strong pantheological background (rather like the Pre-Christian Roman Empire, or any strong human civilization for that matter).
They believe that ones accomplishments should be in evidence for all to see (similar to the Maori and other native peoples world-wide).

I think it's the combination of these aspects, plus the fact that everything they use is organic or organically created, that makes them such an 'alien' threat.

There are too many races that have been 'humanized' throughout the Star Wars universe, whether through the Imperial plot device, or because of the limited scope of reference the all-too-human writers have. By combining various known aspects of human behavior and adding the very alien concept of "organics good - mechanics bad", the Vong race is more alien than many of the sentients that we've come to know and love throughout that galaxy.

[DJMoonbass]

Little off-topic, but I have to say that I LOVE the fact that Jacen turned Dark-Side. He was always an odd one, and his choice seemed to fit his character. Furthermore, making Jaina the one take him down was amazing, as it showed that she really is (along with Ben Skywalker) the "true heir" to the Skywalker/Solo legacy. I hope she gets a lot more focus in the future.

I got way off the NJO with LotF series. Pulled me in. I read the entire series and wrote a paper on it i should post that:!: well anyway. the way that luke partrays jaina as the 'Sword of the Jedi' just gives proof that Jaina will have a huge future ahead of her. The yuuzhan Vong War changed everyone including Jacen, Luke, Mara, its just lucky that Ben wasnt really that old by the time it ended. And im anxious to see how he recovers from the effects Jacen had on him. he will make an amazing promising Jedi master.

[Nightwing]

I got way off the NJO with LotF series. Pulled me in. I read the entire series and wrote a paper on it i should post that:!: well anyway. the way that luke partrays jaina as the 'Sword of the Jedi' just gives proof that Jaina will have a huge future ahead of her. The yuuzhan Vong War changed everyone including Jacen, Luke, Mara, its just lucky that Ben wasnt really that old by the time it ended. And im anxious to see how he recovers from the effects Jacen had on him. he will make an amazing promising Jedi master.
I wonder if Jaina marries Jagged Fel? That would explain (in the Legacy comics) why the Fel dynasty is force-sensitive, and the existence of the Imperial Knights.

I kinda hope she doesn't. I'd rather that she actually have a happy ending with somebody other than the leader of the EMPIRE. -_-

[Darth_DevilGuy]

I wonder if Jaina marries Jagged Fel? That would explain (in the Legacy comics) why the Fel dynasty is force-sensitive, and the existence of the Imperial Knights.

I kinda hope she doesn't. I'd rather that she actually have a happy ending with somebody other than the leader of the EMPIRE. -_-

well the Fell empire isn't really the same as Palpatine's, it retains a number of the institutions, but thing's like the imperial mission and the imperial kights are markedly different. It's more autocratic than the republic, but it has checks in place to keep it honest, at least until darth krayt takes over...

[DJMoonbass]

darth krayt takes it over? Wow i really need to get into the comics. I was hoppin that jaina marries Zekk. i havent read the new book mellinium falcon yet it supposedly comes right after LotF

[Nightwing]

well the Fell empire isn't really the same as Palpatine's, it retains a number of the institutions, but thing's like the imperial mission and the imperial kights are markedly different. It's more autocratic than the republic, but it has checks in place to keep it honest, at least until darth krayt takes over...
Yeah, but the Fel's Empire (notably Fel himself) is pretty much morally gray. I don't really like the idea of Jaina being a part of that, even if it's a few generations after her.

[Darth_DevilGuy]

darth krayt takes it over? Wow i really need to get into the comics. I was hoppin that jaina marries Zekk. i havent read the new book mellinium falcon yet it supposedly comes right after LotF

the legacy comics take place in 130 ABY.

IMO I don't think Jaina would have to marry Fel to for the fel line to be descended from her.

For instance, she could have his kid and raise them as a Jedi, eventually Jagged Dies and his kid from Jaina is the only available heir, that child leaves the Jedi order to take the throne in order to prevent a civil war. The new emperor founds the imperial knights in order to give the empire the same sort of peace keepers that the republic has in the jedi.

[DJMoonbass]

that sounds like it would deffinatley work. Palpatines Empire ruled by force and Fear. now if this new empire has the same sort of government set up but still retains diplomacy and rules by peace and negotiation than that would be a government way better than the republic (In my opinion...)

[Nightwing]

that sounds like it would deffinatley work. Palpatines Empire ruled by force and Fear. now if this new empire has the same sort of government set up but still retains diplomacy and rules by peace and negotiation than that would be a government way better than the republic (In my opinion...)
Well... they still don't use peace or negotiation much. Hence why they're called an empire.

[DJMoonbass]

I still have yet to read it. I just got done reading dark journey in NJO series. So I'm going to finish the series first then maybe go into the comics.

[Darth_DevilGuy]

yeah not really negotiation, under fel it was more of a benevolent dictatorship, then Krayt took over and the genocide started...

Essentially the Fel empire is autocratic, it has the same government system as (in fact literally a continuation of) the old galactic empire, with Moffs, Grand Admirals, and Planetary governors, I don't think it had any elected officials. The key difference was the intention, Fel's primary concern was the wellbeing of his people and maintaining order, unlike palpatine who just wanted power for it's own sake.

[DJMoonbass]

palpatine was a power freak! that guy was just insane. I have heard of darth Krayt. he was a sith dude that i read in small comic in starwars insider

[Rasser]

yeah krayt is actually A'Sharad Hett ex jedi. he was injured and has Yuuzhan Vong implants in. The legacy comic is pretty cool im reading it now.

[Nightwing]

I think it's interesting how in Legacy they show some Vong that aren't evil. Heck, a few of them actually have become Jedi allies, and are... kind. O_o

[duncan29793]

If I remember correctly, at the end of the series when the Vong relocate to Zenoma Sekot it gave them a chance to go back to thier "roots" which really wasn't agressive I think. So that would make sense. Can't remember the details, but do remember the sword/snakes taking off into the wild and not interested in fighting once there.

[DJMoonbass]

dont forget there was that Vong that helped Anakin on Yavin four to rescue Tahiri. I forgot his name but a shapper turned him into a shamed one.