How exactly is the Crystal Focus board hard to obtain?

[Obi-Ben]

Several people have said the Crystal Focus board is difficult to get, but I can't figure out why they are telling me that. They aren't available here, but can't I just simply go on the Plector Labs website and order one? Or is there a backlogged waitlist for them?

One other question regarding sound boards, how is the CF 4 harder to wire than the UltraSound 2? Isn't it just a matter of connecting the batteries, LED, speaker, and switches?

[xl97]

Erv/Plecter Labs only make a few of them at any given time.. batches of 50 or so +/- and they sell out in literally minutes.

You cant 'just order one'... when they are available..he lets people know through his mailing list..that you shoudl already be signed up for.. but even then its just first come, ...first serve.

He tries to be as fair as can be.. and sometimes buts a few up for auction, that are NOT available to people who already hae purchased.. but again.. goog luck..

you have to be ready at whatever time (France time) they are goign the be released.. and even between refreshing your page..they could (and usually are) gone..

Go to plecterlabs.com and read the CF manual to get an idea of what is involved.. it has alot of options/parameters you can tweak/set..

[Jay-gon Jinn]

They are only available when Erv, the owner of Plecter Labs has some available. If you were to do some reading on the subject, you'd find that he hand assembles each board, so they take some time to make. Because they are hand assembled, he only has handfuls at a time to sell. When he has them, they have been known to sell out in a matter of seconds...yes, you read that right seconds. To answer your other questions, no, he does not take orders, there is no waiting list, it's first come first serve, and it's more involved in wiring up than an Ultrasound if you plan to use it's many features that I won't get into here, because it's all on the forums already.

EDIT:
xl, you beat me to it...

[Rhyen Skytracker]

It is very hard to find them in stock at Plecter Labs. If you try to order one you will see that it says that the quanity you have requested is not available.

[Obi-Ben]

Oh ok, I didn't realize there were so few, so you can't just order one as you please. I just assumed they were mass produced...wherever circuit boards are made. But made by hand...damn, that's got to take a while. I'm shocked they are priced as low as they are, considering the amount of work that must go into each of them.

[xl97]

EDIT:
xl, you beat me to it...


neener, neener, neener.. :) :-D ;) :mrgreen:

[Lord Dottore Matto]

Several people have said the Crystal Focus board is difficult to get, but I can't figure out why they are telling me that. They aren't available here, but can't I just simply go on the Plector Labs website and order one? Or is there a backlogged waitlist for them?

One other question regarding sound boards, how is the CF 4 harder to wire than the UltraSound 2? Isn't it just a matter of connecting the batteries, LED, speaker, and switches?

It is not significantly harder to wire a CF than a US 2.1...that is assuming you have the skill to do either and not ruin a $130 or $230 soundboard. :lol:

[swear000]

Those boards are hard to get because they are custom built for the saber community. Mass production makes sense but Erv does not want to saturate the market. Cost of production also has to be favorable to him. It is an amazing piece of work either way. I am still waiting to get my hands on one...

[Donnovan Sunrider]

They are well worth the effort it takes to get. I was lucky and managed to get one, and I'm taking my time making a sabre worthy of housing it.

[cardcollector]

Since we are on the topics of spund boards:D I have a question I've been wanting to ask for a long time *takes a deep nervous breath*

Is it possible to buy just a MR sound board without the lightsaber?
If so (and if allowed in the forums) where?:-?

Also what exactly is a Joe Jedi 616 board? And again, where can you get those?

[Sairon]

Ebay is your friend, and a joe jedi is the last MR saber that MR made, it is the build your own lightsaber with a prolite rgb. Also Google is your friend.

[Jay-gon Jinn]

Since we are on the topics of spund boards:D I have a question I've been wanting to ask for a long time *takes a deep nervous breath*

Is it possible to buy just a MR sound board without the lightsaber?
If so (and if allowed in the forums) where?:-?

Also what exactly is a Joe Jedi 616 board? And again, where can you get those?
Tim used to have FX sound boards in the store, but that was a few years ago.
There are currently no ways to get one without gutting an FX saber. Some times there are members at FX-Saber.com that have boards to sell, but even those are getting rare.

The Joe Jedi or SW-616 soundboard is the one from the MR construction set. Do a forum search and you should find a lot of information about that board.

[Vallen Kel-Romarr]

The Joe Jedi or SW-616 soundboard is the one from the MR construction set. Do a forum search and you should find a lot of information about that board.

NOTE to anyone doing this search -- doing a search for "Joe Jedi" (including quotes) will return useful results. The search function ignores anything of 3 characters or less, so you need to use quotes and search for the exact phrase. If the post/thread (however you're searching) didn't use the words 'joe' and 'jedi' right next to each other, this search won't find that post/thread.

Unfortunately, when I search, 'SW-616' returns no results. Because of the character limit of the search, '616 joe jedi MR' returns ALL results with the word "jedi" and ignores the rest of the search string. (The same applies to 'MHS', 'ID', 'OD', 'FX', 'LED', etc.) I can't seem to find a way around this, as the 'AND' & '+' operators still get ignored if combined with a short search term. Maybe someone who has better SearchFu or is more familiar with the forum UI can assist.

Interestingly enough, clicking on the '616' in the search cloud on the advanced search page DOES return ONE thread...

[Eandori]

It is not significantly harder to wire a CF than a US 2.1...that is assuming you have the skill to do either and not ruin a $130 or $230 soundboard.
CF has more features then US 2.0 does. If you use ALL the features of CF, then yes it's MUCH harder to set-up the US 2.0.

Let me give you a quick "for instance" to really prove the point...

The US 2.0 has an audio-selection menu for it's settings, and one sound font.

CF has up to 6 sound fonts, and up to 16 music tracks that can be played. Each and every sound font can be altered by the user if they wish to do sound-editing on their PC. The end result is some... 180+ files that can all be customized on CF.

Here is a copy/paste of the config file settings for one of my sabers before I sold it...

//Config file bank1 Novastar
hc=255
lc=70
hs=45
ls=10
sc=9
ss=6
i=0.65
gx=1.1
gy=2.2
rand=0
freq=120
shimmerd=130
shimmerp=10
shimmerr=5
auxflashd=25
dynshift=0
shift=0
gravity=110
buffer=9
noise=12
sample=14
swing=180
lockup=90
blaster=0
switch=0
instanton=0
instantoff=0
offprotect=0
auxreboot=1
force=1
mute=0
beep=40
valsnd=1
current=70
lowbatt=310
flickers=3
flickerd=70
flickerp=0
brake=0.80
slope=0.5
Each and every one of those settings has something very specific it does and a SERIOUS saber-smith has probably played with, and settled on a value for each one.

This is all beyond the extra wiring for all the extra circuits for special features that CF is made to support. Features like...
- Rumble motor
- Blink LED's
- Clash Flash LED
- Low Power LED
- Blade power lock

etc etc.

Have I made my point yet?

[Novastar]

Several people have said the Crystal Focus board is difficult to get, but I can't figure out why they are telling me that. They aren't available here, but can't I just simply go on the Plector Labs website and order one? Or is there a backlogged waitlist for them?

Gone in 60 seconds (ok, 2 hours):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0cWMLMyOr8

Gone in 5 minutes (ok, 4 minutes):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjLS0J2AiMQ

And Edwin is in some ways correct about CF, and in some ways wrong--regarding how CF could be complex to set up...

* CF (once wired up) can literally be turned on with no modification... and your saber will most likely be dandy fine without any work at all

* An exception might be with your switch settings (momentary or latching). I think CF defaults to latching for the on/off switch.

* However... if you have some special needs with your LED current, and want to really be precise about the current driven into said LED... yup--you'd need to configure the LED more directly. I think CF defaults to running an LED @1A (ledcurrent=45, which is like 0.97A).

Otherwise--CF + its default SD card should function just fine with almost no modification. But the BEAUTY of CF... is its ability to be nearly 100% configurable. Right down to how much delay it takes for a button press to create the "lockup" sound... how the saber reboots... how quickly the saber "ramps up/down" with the light upon power on and off... and (as I said) what switch type you use.

[Eandori]

Good addition Nova, yeah you can just use defaults on CF across the board and simply not use features that it comes with.

In my eyes, that really destroy's the whole reason to use a CF though... It's like paying extra for a motherboard with overclocking features, then never touching them. Sure, even at it's default settings a CF board is well above all other boards... but... it's so much more!!!

[Novastar]

Oh, I just mean for those who are super-eager to just wire it up and get it running! :)

I agree... CF = you want to screw with everything until you're quite happy with all of the "pimping it out"... messing with variables... looking for that unique "flicker & glow"... all that jazz. :)

Then again, that's why I created the CD. :cool:

Now... if only I could MAGICALLY figure out some way where there was a great formula to make configuration files that yielded the same or extremely similar light driving for EVERYONE... which is fairly impossible due to:

* Differing battery voltages
* Differing LED fwd voltages and also the way they behave for "ramping" or dimming (for lack of a better way to say it)
* Differing CF current settings (some will over-drive, some will drive @ "spec", others will drive under???)
* Differing other devices on board the whole thing. Speakers... motors... special indicator LEDs... Tri-Rebels... whatever.

It's a friggin' NIGHTMARE to try to figure out "one size fits all" light values. So... for anyone with the CD who had problems with some of my config settings... sorry!! It's nearly impossible to control.

I just figured that using a voltage setup that was well ABOVE what the LED wanted/needed was the best standard to shoot for. Essentially: 7.2v + ~4v LED + good speaker + a few goodies. :)

[swear000]

Are you talking about dynamic voltage scaling?

[Novastar]

Absolutely not. DVS is used mainly in the large-chip computer worlds, where you have power hogs like uber video cards and 2.4Ghz processors and all that jazz. When you have (for example) ten 12v rails or whatever... and several of them with devices, programs and other thingamabobs and thongamajigs that aren't doing very much at the time... you can play DVS with them to save power and thwart hungry current and voltage thieves... :cool:

But mainly, it's used for power-saving on computers... you know... sleep mode, low-battery mode (laptops), hibernation mode, blah blah blah.

To a certain extent... CF *DOES* have a sleep mode... but... I'm not talking about that at all.

What I mean to say is... I cannot make "one size fits all" SD card configuration files that make the light driven from CF (LED current) behave identically from saber X to saber Y if saber X & Y have:

* Differing battery voltages
* Differing LED fwd voltages and also the way they behave for "ramping" or dimming (for lack of a better way to say it)
* Differing CF current settings (some will over-drive, some will drive @ "spec", others will drive under???)
* Differing other devices on board the whole thing. Speakers... motors... special indicator LEDs... Tri-Rebels... whatever.

It's hard to explain. :)

[Obi-Ben]

Gah! It's such a tease to know about all the different features the CF has, and then not be able to buy one (without a certain degree of luck). But the UltraSound looks like a great board too, so I'm looking forward to getting my hands on one. Thanks guys for explaining everything to me.

[Jay-gon Jinn]

The good thing is, the Ultrasound 2.1's will be back in stock at some point, here at TCSS.

[sekrogue1985]

Yeah, the CF is a holy grail. I'm lucky to even have gotten one, much less a second one. But ya know it's worth it. I'll agree with nova that you spend hours figuring out what you want in terms of settings.

[Novastar]

Gah! It's such a tease to know about all the different features the CF has, and then not be able to buy one (without a certain degree of luck). But the UltraSound looks like a great board too, so I'm looking forward to getting my hands on one. Thanks guys for explaining everything to me.You're welcome. And... don't worry.

Most everyone makes a crazy stink about how rare the Crystal Focus boards are, but the truth of the matter is... there have been just about as many CF boards released over time (800 to 1000 or so?) as there have Ultra boards... but... since Erv hasn't mass-produced them at this point... he's hand-soldering all of these!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woqknbHkHe4

That video gives you a tiny idea... and... it's done a bit in a joking manner, but... again--this is a lot for one man to do.

Only time will tell if a more "factory level" run of the CF boards will occur.

[Largos]

If your looking for something that I feel is a good alternative I just got a Makoto board with blade and it's freak'n awsome! Now that I have his sound card I will most likely order more blades in diffrent colors. ONly issue I have is trying to get it to fit in my MHS saber. THe choke is a bit too small to fit the blade wire through.

[Allaerra Secura]

If your looking for something that I feel is a good alternative I just got a Makoto board with blade and it's freak'n awsome! Now that I have his sound card I will most likely order more blades in diffrent colors. ONly issue I have is trying to get it to fit in my MHS saber. THe choke is a bit too small to fit the blade wire through.

Makoto blades are very impressive! However, if you want to do any real dueling, the LEDs will break leaving dark spots. Beautiful for an ornamental saber, not so hot for a saber that will see a lot of practical use. also, they are a bit heavy;)

[erv]

hi all,
I promise CF won't be that rare in the future (after the summer). The workshop will be finished in may, I'll have more time to give to the saber community, and I'll be able to produce more batches in good conditions.
I know it's been a year or so since things have really slowed down on my side due to house rennovation, and my workshop was in last position on the ToDO list...
another batch is planned for the summer :rolleyes:

Erv'

[Kal El Rah]

hi all,
I promise CF won't be that rare in the future (after the summer). The workshop will be finished in may, I'll have more time to give to the saber community, and I'll be able to produce more batches in good conditions.
I know it's been a year or so since things have really slowed down on my side due to house rennovation, and my workshop was in last position on the ToDO list...
another batch is planned for the summer :rolleyes:

Erv'


Thank You so much Erv for the heads up.:p

[Jedi-Loreen]

That's good news, Erv. :)

[Darth Leximus]

WOOHOO! I might actually get one!!

[Kant Lavar]

Good to hear, Erv.

(Yes, we're taking over his life. Our plan is succeeding! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!)

[Storm Sunfire]

That's right I said "make". Erv makes them by hand, right? Where does he get his components? I have tried for two years to get an ultrsound board or a CF. At this rate I think it would be better to build my own and then buy the CD of sounds. There is a company in Canada that makes Circuit boards for a variety of things. Is that something worth looking into? Maybe I could start a business that does that?

[Thaxos]

That's right I said "make". Erv makes them by hand, right? Where does he get his components? I have tried for two years to get an ultrsound board or a CF. At this rate I think it would be better to build my own and then buy the CD of sounds. There is a company in Canada that makes Circuit boards for a variety of things. Is that something worth looking into? Maybe I could start a business that does that?

If Erv is building and selling these, I don't think he's going to want to let people be able to build it themselves. You should just send Erv a message and ask him instead however.

[Clockwork]

I am pretty sure it has been said elsewhere that Erv is not interested in offering the schematics of the Crystal Focus to others. If you want to build your own soundboard from your own designs that will takes some time, although it is not impossible.

[xl97]

Do you know what components are needed to complete such a project?

Do you know how to program? Assembly / C++ / BASIC? anything?

Im sorry but the thing abotu your post that struck me funny was.. that you'd build all this (hard) stuff yourself..but then BUY a sound font CD?

if you could do the former.. Im sure you could do the later if you wanted.

[xwingband]

There are parts that require reflow soldering and Erv just plain doesn't want to have to support that. The vast majority are going to tackle a CF with a pretty raunchy iron so I'd say 95% wouldn't cut it for putting one together.

IMO it's a load of crap anyway. There are as many CFs as Ultrasounds out there so Erv has done well.

[Revan]

We all need to just pitch in to find a way so he can mass produce these things. cause he has WAY to much pressure from us to hand make these things for all of us... i still have yet to get one lol, and i doubt i'll be able to get my hands on one of the second batch.

[Barmic Rin]

Obi-Ben: Please read previous posts!

Erv: WOOHOO!!! Good to hear the workshop will be ready that soon.

Sunfire: Others on here are looking at doing their own soundboards, some of the brits have been looking at doing one for afew months, and it's a slow process to get off the ground initially. Definitely looking at doing your own would always be beneficial to the community though...

[xl97]

We all need to just pitch in to find a way so he can mass produce these things. cause he has WAY to much pressure from us to hand make these things for all of us... i still have yet to get one lol, and i doubt i'll be able to get my hands on one of the second batch.

wow..your assuming he WANTS to mass produce these..arent you?

Im sure if he wanted to.. he wouldnt need help from IS to make it happen...no?

[Storm Sunfire]

Just to be clear;
I love Erv and Plecter labs. I think he makes an awesome product. In all my time cruising the forums the one thing I have noticed is the sheer demand for good sound cards. Anyone can strip a hasbro board from a target lightsaber (as I have done) but getting ahold of a CF is like winning the lottery. It is possible to take cards from MR sabers but then you still have a nice saber with no sound. Aside from pirating a card your only options are the Ultrasound or the CF.
Now I do not know C++, nor do I have any sound engineering software. I sent some specs to a company called Nova Conceptions. They specialize in making chips for toys. We'll see what they say. If it works out it could be something good for all of us.

[beggarsoutpost]

Just to be clear;
I love Erv and Plecter labs. I think he makes an awesome product. In all my time cruising the forums the one thing I have noticed is the sheer demand for good sound cards. Anyone can strip a hasbro board from a target lightsaber (as I have done) but getting ahold of a CF is like winning the lottery. It is possible to take cards from MR sabers but then you still have a nice saber with no sound. Aside from pirating a card your only options are the Ultrasound or the CF.
Now I do not know C++, nor do I have any sound engineering software. I sent some specs to a company called Nova Conceptions. They specialize in making chips for toys. We'll see what they say. If it works out it could be something good for all of us.
Nova is who is making Ultra's board...

[erv]

ki adi answered first,
quite amusing without making fun in particular. I've answered this in the "what do you want on CF v. xxx" : certain things aren't as easy :
- as they seem
- as you imagine
- aren't easy... at all. Not everybody can't paint like delacroix. I don't consider myself as special, but my skills are directly related to my day job and experience, and CF linked to this.

You can feel this way each time you get to the car repair shop with a wrecked car, and you come back home with an invoice of $500 while this guy "just hammered a bit here and there and put some fresh paint on it".

Manufacturing is still considered. I couldn't afford it so far, time wise first, due to the amount of time required with the house, and funding also. We found a compagny that finally went down due to the economic crack. For now, the emergency is to work on another batch during the summer. Getting a CF isn't lottery. People know they vanish in 4 minutes, so be there or ask a friend to get one for you.
Making those by hand is difficult, but getting those manufactured isn't that simple neither. Not talking about the money investment.

I've built more than 1,000 of those myself. For sure it's never enough, with the saber after market growing up but don't take me as responsible of that :rolleyes:

Things will get to the point when I'll be ready for this. Sending a board for manufacturing is great when you plan to make 1,000 and change nothing. Me, I'm currently working on a update, so I won't be able to start manufacturing until the new version is properly tested, that's why there will be a hand made run first. That would be different if I had 10 or more hour a day to give to this, but I work in a research institute too. And I'm building other kinds of boards too. I've never planned to abandon the saber field, far from it, it's just that now, my time is divided by the number of boards I want to design.
Simply because I love "Props that Work" and I don't think it should be limited to sabers.
Some of you might not understand why I'm not running to "catch the money" where it is and "prostitute myself" more. Well, the buisness model and culture in europe is different than in the USA and second I don't do this for money initially, even if it's good one.

Erv'

[sithlordfaust]

one thing I like about the fact that Erv makes them by hand is... If you should fry a component on a CF, you can send it to him. If its something that can be repaired, he will and send it back to you. with the US that is manufactured you are not so luck. and when he comes out with a new firmware you can send him the board and he'll update it for free + shipping. Id love to see something in the fututre where you could load the update onto the SD card and update from there but IDK if thats possible, but if it is you can bet hed implement it. Ive got a 2.6 board that was sent to him and updated to 3.x, and he's told me I can send it to him to be upgraded to 4.x . for the exception of hardware limitations of course. but all in all thats awesome

[erv]

it's really kind :-)
a bit aside of the difficulty of obtaining a CF, but compliment taken, thanks !

SD card firmware upgrade is part of the feature list for V5. It's doable.
erv'

[Barmic Rin]

You know Erv, if you want, i'll send my 1.2 for an upgrade.... LOL!!!!

And I can see SLF's point in sending off for the upgrade:

I'm only in the next time zone from you & i'm always on there too late!!!!

[erv]

lol, unfortunatly, the 1.2 has a different hardware compared to the 2.x, otherwise... I would have upgraded it with pleasure !

[Revan]

lol i would be happy just to get a version 1.0! i'm just glad that Erv is kind enough to actually make these things for other people! he could have easily just make one for himself and said "look at me! i gots me a freakin sweet lightsaber" :lol:

Erv... you're the best!

[sithlordfaust]

it's really kind :-)


SD card firmware upgrade is part of the feature list for V5. It's doable.
erv'

thats awesome, although its hard to imagine what more you could do to the CF past v5 to need an upgrade. Id like to see them get smaller and smaller. be able to convert more supposed unconvertables.

*threadjack done*

[Novastar]

Don't worry about jacking THIS thread... it's kind of a cruddy subject if you ask me.

I will say:

I'm *THOROUGHLY* pissed off and bummed out about what recently happened, which is--Erv and I were hoping to make SOME kind of "bulk production" of CF, and the company (as Erv mentioned) essentially downsized in the waning US economy and dumped its manufacturing aspects of the business.

Now, some people might say "big deal, find another company"... but... AGAIN as Erv mentions--it's not as EASY as it sounds. It took MONTHS to look into things, build some relationships, and find places that could be "the right fit". The same concept actually occurred when I was looking to the company that makes the premium speakers (and the 36mm & 45mm ones)... you have to build a relationship.

I was lucky in that--initially--this "bulk production" company was a WARM contact of mine, and it wasn't just me cold-calling up a company to get a quote. The sad thing is... it STILL didn't work out, even after all the hand-shaking, meeting in person, sharing e-mails, asking about concepts, Erv relaying information and so forth.

IT'S IRRITATING to say the least. And it may come as no shock to you all that these things TAKE TIME. And sometimes it amounts to a "waste of time" when nothing gets done.

Relating that to what has happened with the Ultra-board... do you all REALLY think *anyone* wants to get their hands tied with a company that DOESN'T own up to promises, causes massive delays, or whatever??!? I think not.

Anyhow. I'm not trying to make it overly-complicated, but... just remember: it is doubtful that "just anyone" will go out and make their own sound & light driver. It will take time, experience, money, and a whole lot of testing and effort that (as X-Wing notes) 95% of people are unwilling to battle through.

[Revan]

Are you serious! that really sucks man. Oh well, looks like we will ALL have to play the waiting game.

[Storm Sunfire]

Nova conceptions in Texas makes the Ultrasound card? Man!!
Well I guess they probably wouldn't want to develop a soundcard for me.

[erv]

I am pretty sure it has been said elsewhere that Erv is not interested in offering the schematics of the Crystal Focus to others. If you want to build your own soundboard from your own designs that will takes some time, although it is not impossible.

I forgot to anwser this one, let's try to keep the thing as transparent as possible. As a matter of fact, it's a buisness and a product, so I won't offer the schematic, and for sure, I won't distribute the firmware or the code. I don't have problem talking about this, in 99% of the cases, I would answer kindly to those requests, explaining why.
I suppose it just like if you'd ask time to reveal his suppliers, and also get his 3D MHS parts conception files so that you could make them on your own.
Like clockworks said (we've been in touch about this subject once or twice), it's not impossible, but it remains difficult. People having a buisness are trying to make uniquities and/or difficult to make stuff in order to gain money, that's the normal way to do it.

[Barmic Rin]

I was pulling your leg Erv! I wouldn't want my pride of my collection tampered with!!!

And why would folks ask for the spec to a sizable chunk of Erv's income? That's not gonna happen!!!

[Revan]

Erv is an engineer... i'm pretty sure he makes more money doing his job than he does selling his crystal focus considering he has to buy all of the expensive parts first in order to make them :)

[xl97]

Erv is an engineer... i'm pretty sure he makes more money doing his job than he does selling his crystal focus considering he has to buy all of the expensive parts first in order to make them :)

who said he didnt? and thats basically irrelevant....no?

the point is/was why would he give away the schematics/source code for a product that gives him additional income?

[Storm Sunfire]

No one has ever said that Erv should give up the schematics for the Crystal Focus. His board is, and will always be, the Cadillac of soundcards. I also think that if Erv decides to mass produce the CF, it will not be for the purpose of making money. The issue is simply a matter of supply and demand. The CF is in high demand because of what it does. It makes a costume accessory into a living representation of boyhood fantasy. It increases the enjoyment of a lightsaber prop tenfold.

This is why Erv does what he does. He is like Santa Claus. Without reindeer.

I am saying that the market will bear the addition of another Santa Claus. Or maybe, in my case, an Easter Bunny.

No one will topple Erv from his position, and no one should try.

[Jonitus]

Ever since the saber community started using the CF boards, there has been a division between the "haves" and the "have-nots". Everyone wants one, few get them. It's the way of things.

Folks might as well accept that there will not be a mass-produced run of 1000 boards so every n00b can get one. Can you imagine the flood of e-mails to Erv when people with little to no experience soldering or wiring end up borking their boards?

Getting a CF in a saber is a right of passage. It's not something you DESERVE, it is something you EARN. I have had the benefit of owning dozens of the CF boards through the years, but I had to climb quite a mountain to get there and get to the point where I had the opportunity to get hold of the boards.

When you see a CF in the flesh for the first time, you appreciate all the work that goes into its creation. over 100 solder connections, done by Erv himself, for each board. The boards are special...almost sacred. Throwing them to mass production takes away something from the experience of having to struggle to get one, and diminishes the excitement you feel when you hear the board boot up for the first time and turn your saber on.

I would ask that people exercise a bit of patience and refrain from taking out their frustrations on people here, and especially from voicing frustration against Erv, who does what he does because he loves this hobby and loves electronics and spends time away from his family to provide saber enthusiasts with the epitome of saber sound. Having a view that you are somehow "entitled" to own things or be able to possess things is a sure sign that this is the wrong hobby for you. It's the journey and the quest that's fun here, not the destination.

[Novastar]

...I also think that if Erv decides to mass produce the CF, it will not be for the purpose of making money. The issue is simply a matter of supply and demand.I hate to be the harbinger of reality, but... Erv is no fool. CF *DOES* indeed generate profit: it has to do so. To make a single CF at a cost of $xxxx and then sell it for $xxxx or even $xxxx + a few bucks would be ridiculous.

So I hate to say it, but... yes... making money from selling product is not only a good idea... it's completely necessary.


No one will topple Erv from his position, and no one should try.Again, as the harbinger of reality... firstly, Erv is not posing as "King Kong", nor is it something like where "everyone else should just quit". Au contraire, the whole POINT of innovation is to CONTINUE to innovate.

Now the REAL issue is when someone just comes out and says "I'm going to make my own widget/thing/item", yet they have no real grasp on the arduous steps it would take to get from concept point A to finished product point Z. It takes work! Study! Patience... testing... failure... practice... training, etc.

It's not that people shouldn't innovate... it's just that people who live in a vacuum-sealed bubble and drink cool-aid (and ignore reality) should not ATTEMPT to innovate.

Or at least... they should start small and work up to larger things.

[xl97]

I drink & like kool-aid.

[cardcollector]

No one will topple Erv from his position, and no one should try.

If no one tries to best the CF there will never be something better. Everything has flaws, ie. v2.0 ,3.0, 4.0, etc. Just think of how we would be today if no one had tried to best previous inventers in the area of phones or even cars!



So I hate to say it, but... yes... making money from selling product is not only a good idea... it's completely necessary.

I just finished a microeconomics course and that is a Buisness' #1 job- to make a profit. If it does that will equal more jobs, and a benefit to the town around it. Or in Erv's case, a better life for his family.

[Lord Dottore Matto]

Ever since the saber community started using the CF boards, there has been a division between the "haves" and the "have-nots". Everyone wants one, few get them. It's the way of things.

Folks might as well accept that there will not be a mass-produced run of 1000 boards so every n00b can get one. Can you imagine the flood of e-mails to Erv when people with little to no experience soldering or wiring end up borking their boards?

Getting a CF in a saber is a right of passage. It's not something you DESERVE, it is something you EARN. I have had the benefit of owning dozens of the CF boards through the years, but I had to climb quite a mountain to get there and get to the point where I had the opportunity to get hold of the boards.

When you see a CF in the flesh for the first time, you appreciate all the work that goes into its creation. over 100 solder connections, done by Erv himself, for each board. The boards are special...almost sacred. Throwing them to mass production takes away something from the experience of having to struggle to get one, and diminishes the excitement you feel when you hear the board boot up for the first time and turn your saber on.

I would ask that people exercise a bit of patience and refrain from taking out their frustrations on people here, and especially from voicing frustration against Erv, who does what he does because he loves this hobby and loves electronics and spends time away from his family to provide saber enthusiasts with the epitome of saber sound. Having a view that you are somehow "entitled" to own things or be able to possess things is a sure sign that this is the wrong hobby for you. It's the journey and the quest that's fun here, not the destination.

I agree completely with Jonitus. Owning one, wiring one...it is a rite of passage. It is almost surreal and just having one in your hand for the first time is an experience in and of itself. If these were as commonplace as MR boards, they would not be what they are..they would not mean as much. Too many people cannot wait, they cannot learn, they cannot pay their dues, they want it all and they want it yesterday. Would I buy 20 if I could? yes! Do I appreciate the ones I have because it was so hard to obtain them? Yep! Do I appreciate them more because other Masters felt I was ready and helped me get them? HELL YES! It means something to me and it should be special to all of you "if" you are fortunate enough to get one!

As far as Erv making money in this venture...GET OVER IT! The man does the work and he deserves to make the coin just as every other person on the planet that possesses a special skill!;)

[airsoftmode]

I agree completely with Jonitus. Owning one, wiring one...it is a rite of passage. It is almost surreal and just having one in your hand for the first time is an experience in and of itself. If these were as commonplace as MR boards, they would not be what they are..they would not mean as much. Too many people cannot wait, they cannot learn, they cannot pay their dues, they want it all and they want it yesterday. Would I buy 20 if I could? yes! Do I appreciate the ones I have because it was so hard to obtain them? Yep! Do I appreciate them more because other Masters felt I was ready and helped me get them? HELL YES! It means something to me and it should be special to all of you "if" you are fortunate enough to get one!

As far as Erv making money in this venture...GET OVER IT! The man does the work and he deserves to make the coin just as every other person on the planet that possesses a special skill!;)

OMG you are killing me, I want the joy of wiring my first CF SOOOO bad, I want that right of passage.

[ThreeQuadFive]

It is not significantly harder to wire a CF than a US 2.1...that is assuming you have the skill to do either and not ruin a $130 or $230 soundboard. :lol:

You mean like I did to that first poor US 2.0 board I had :-D

[Storm Sunfire]

When I started thinking about creating a soundcard for myself it was simply with the thought that I would make something better than a Hasbro. Yes we as a community should continue to innovate. Yes improvements should always push the hobby forward.

I know for a FACT that I will always be student to Erv. I will not be the one to outdo him. Any soundcard I can produce will be a placeholder until a CF becomes available.

Now about Erv making money... Erv is right, the philosophy of American business is simply about money. Erv's philosophy is more along the lines of an old world craftsman. He is not crouching over his workbench dreaming greedily of all the cash he will make. What keeps him going long hours into the night is simply his love of the hobby. It shows in the craftsmanship when you get a CF board. It is handmade with patience and dedication. Not only that, but his attitude after you purchase it. Many have posted glowing reports of Erv upgrading, repairing, or otherwise servicing an older CF. Concern for money does not make people act like that. Only a strong sense of community creates an ethic like Erv's.

[Lord Dottore Matto]

It is not significantly harder to wire a CF than a US 2.1...that is assuming you have the skill to do either and not ruin a $130 or $230 soundboard. :lol:

I want to clarify this statement since it has been repeatedly quoted in this thread. I was only talking about the process of soldering the wires to the PCB itself, not the entire set up. ;)


CF has more features then US 2.0 does. If you use ALL the features of CF, then yes it's MUCH harder to set-up the US 2.0.



I completely agree with Eandori on this point, which is part of the reason that it is a rite of passage!:mrgreen:

[Novastar]

...Now about Erv making money... Erv is right, the philosophy of American business is simply about money.To a point, "yes". In CORPORATE America. For the small business, generally "no". Erv and I speak directly together about this quite often... I can assure you--his philosophy is not quite so black & whitely put.


Erv's philosophy is more along the lines of an old world craftsman. He is not crouching over his workbench dreaming greedily of all the cash he will make. What keeps him going long hours into the night is simply his love of the hobby. It shows in the craftsmanship when you get a CF board. It is handmade with patience and dedication. Not only that, but his attitude after you purchase it. Many have posted glowing reports of Erv upgrading, repairing, or otherwise servicing an older CF. Concern for money does not make people act like that. Only a strong sense of community creates an ethic like Erv's.You're missing the point as far as I'm concerned... I mean... you DO realize you're "preaching to the choir" here, right? :)

Erv and I have worked pretty closely since CF showed up to the DIY folks everywhere back in '05/'06. I would never have worked with him if I thought he was hovering over a workbench, drooling over Euros and US$, lol. :grin:

It seems like you're exaggerating my point to an extreme. Erv still needs to make a profit, and THAT is the point--c'est tout. I did not say that he is gouging or should gouge people at the wallet... I also didn't say he was akin to corporate america... but "concern for money" is in EVERYONE'S best interests. Greed, however... is not.

We have seen what hyperactive greed does to saber-makers. There is a barely hidden message here... ... :wink: (LOL)

[Darth Leximus]

We have seen what hyperactive greed does to saber-makers. There is a barely hidden message here... ... :wink: (LOL)

Ahhh, I see what you did there... ;)

[Barmic Rin]

Ahhh, I see what you did there... ;)

I dyne know what Nova is talking about..... ;)

[Hasid Lafre]

I scored my first CF for 80$ so I dont see what the problem is.

[Roy's Blues]

Sounds like a bargain.

And if you have more than one you are named "Hoarder" and branded with a hot poker in the shape of an H in the shoutbox. Even after offering tips to those without.

[Xoultrain]

I consider CF like an enhancement crystal from KOTOR. You start without a saber for a long time(Telos). Then you finally get to the enclave (the forums here). then you finally make your first saber(with or without sound/MHS or sink tube/or PVC). Then you start towards finding enhancement crystals(hasbro soundboards...MR soundboards...US...CF...).So finally you have a bunch of sabers with a bunch of enhancement crystals to go defeat Malak.:D

Hope this was a fun analogy.

[Kal El Rah]

Yes it is:cool:

[Xoultrain]

I meant for this analogy to represent the progression of starting out (like myself, a few sabers w/o sound) to sabers with sound. The experience gained. Then making sabers with sound. Always improving.

[Novastar]

I dyne know what Nova is talking about..... ;)Don't worry... I rarely know what I'm talking about either... ;)

[Onli-Won Kanomi]

It's a good analogy...to extend it a bit though...

...sometimes the 'haves' can SEEM a little like they are 'gloating'..."I/We killed the Krayt Dragon[s] and now I've/we've got the PEARL[s] and y'all that don't have the 'inside connections' on how to find one to kill :-PPPPP NEEENERS!...

...sometimes it SEEMS like there's an element of "it's not WHAT you know it's WHO you know that counts" ELITISM when 'connected' people seem able to get [relatively] MANY and others who have to 'take their chances among the huddled masses yearning to breathe free' in the 'Gone-in-6-seconds speed-ordering/luck lottery' are able to get NONE...

...thats just a sad fact of human nature that some people will always take an 'I'm Privileged and enjoy Having what You Don't because it makes me feel better than you' elitist attitude I guess...just as its a fact of human nature that other more Egalitarian-minded people can find that [or any kind of] Elitism attitude off-putting, about anything not just sabers.

Though I must say in all fairness that I've NEVER seen any Elitist attitude from ERV himself in anything he has said or done...and I know ERV has done things to try and make *in Gollum voice* "The Precioussss" more available to the rest us 'mere plebians' and really I don't know how he could do anymore - which only makes it more regrettable when there is dissension over this sort of thing between the impatient *cues Queen* "I wannitall and I wannitnow" Noob types and the smug "I got MINE, fuggedaboud you" Establishment types.

Tis all rather SAD imo...lets just all enjoy making our sabers please???

[cardcollector]

Don't worry... I rarely know what I'm talking about either... ;)

Ah, So that's why reading your posts is like reading pig latin!!;):D

[Donnovan Sunrider]

Getting one is a matter of information gathering and preparation.
I'm a relative newbie to the community, but I signed up for Erv's e-mail list, paid close attention to posts he made regarding approaching availability, began saving up the cash for the board and shipping a month in advance and was ready the day it went on sale. Sure it's a carnival when he puts them up, but it's a fun carnival!
Lots of refreshing, paying attention and a little luck and I got one of the first of the second release batch that evening.
I'll do the same thing when he's ready for another run of them. Maybe I'll get one, maybe I won't. It's not really worth crying about if it's a no-go.

[Jonitus]

True, true. Really, I think a lot of the butthurt we see is from people who don't have the money to afford the boards when they are available or aren't willing to try for them in the frenzy on their debut day like the rest of us. Seems to be yet another example of the "I want it now without having to work for it or struggle for it". Same attitude that keeps people from actually...reading the forums or using the search function before asking a question we've covered a hundred times in the past.

If it's any difference, I'm not picking up any CF boards this next time. That frees up about 10 of them right there. LOL

[Barmic Rin]

True, true. Really, I think a lot of the butthurt we see is from people who don't have the money to afford the boards when they are available or aren't willing to try for them in the frenzy on their debut day like the rest of us. Seems to be yet another example of the "I want it now without having to work for it or struggle for it". Same attitude that keeps people from actually...reading the forums or using the search function before asking a question we've covered a hundred times in the past.

If it's any difference, I'm not picking up any CF boards this next time. That frees up about 10 of them right there. LOL


I second that!!!

Though, if Jon's not picking up any, I may be able to get a new one... I've been promising my 1.2 to my bro for the last 18months!!!

[Storm Sunfire]

I think that there should be a mass produced, mid-ranged sound card that is better than a hasbro board and more available than the CF. That's what I'm working on...

As for the "butthurts" and the fageddabou****", there does seem to be some attitude toward those new to the forum from those who have been here for a while. Take a look at how Nova picks apart my postings, for example...

I actually lurked on this forum for almost two years before I made my first post. I have read nearly everything here and in Erv's tutorials as well as seen every youtube how-to you can imagine.

We should all remember that activity on a forum is no indicator of life experience. Respect and gentle nudging goes a long way to soothe the "butthurts"...:-D

[xl97]

if you wann aget involved with some 'mid-card' (which can be a really robust card)

I suggest you look into the replicantFX project.. and order a kit and help/learn there..

if you want to just design your own from scratch of commision someone to do it like NovaConcepts....etc..etc you may more of alearning curve.. I guess I dont know where your skill-set lies. can you program? understand EE stuff? design a PCB?

[Lord Dottore Matto]

If it's any difference, I'm not picking up any CF boards this next time. That frees up about 10 of them right there. LOL

Woohoo, that means 20 for me!;):lol:

[Kal El Rah]

Sure it does,LDM, sure, 20 more for you,LOL.:evil::twisted::cool:

[Lord Dottore Matto]

Sure it does,LDM, sure, 20 more for you,LOL.:evil::twisted::cool:

Did I mention I'm flying to France to hang with Erv this summer. Were gonna chill, drink wine, make a few CF's, laugh at the poor unfortunates who can't get one, steal coins from degenerates,...you know, elitist stuff...;)

[Kal El Rah]

Getting the "GOD" syndrome there LDM?

So your going to the source to gett them before anybody else can get them.

[Lord Dottore Matto]

Getting the "GOD" syndrome there LDM?

So your going to the source to gett them before anybody else can get them.

Muuuahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaa... .



uhhh, not really...;)

[Novastar]

As for the "butthurts" and the fageddabou****", there does seem to be some attitude toward those new to the forum from those who have been here for a while. Take a look at how Nova picks apart my postings, for example...Annnh, don't worry about that doot-dah-doo, Novastar guy. After all... he wears towels on his head, pretends to drink beer (FRUITY beer too), and posts videos that he thinks are entertaining and informative. I mean seriously... WHAT A JOKE, the guy has some serious brain damage--problem from sniffing the solder if ya know whadd I'm sayin'.

That all being said... I think that Nova freak WAS trying to help get CF mass-manufactured, and he's been doing what little he can given his totally meager electronic experience and other projects.

Still. What a doot-dah-doo. :rolleyes:

:cool:

[Storm Sunfire]

LOL...
Novastar ... Too bad about the CF deal falling through. As always, it was a noble effort on your part. Maybe sometime down the line... *grin*:D

[Novastar]

July could become a turning point.

We'll see.

[Barmic Rin]

#Eagerly awaiting July time, but is worried our 'exclusive elitist club' may be letting in the riffraff#
LOL!!!
And who is this nova guy with his postings, and knowledge and beard...? ;P

[MasterStoddard]

Everything I've seen and read about the Crystal Focus Saber Core makes me want one even more when I finally can afford to get one.

[airsoftmode]

July could become a turning point.

We'll see.

Ohh god that would be sick, push hard nova, for all of us,

By the way, do you have any relation to nova conceptions?

[Tradeliphine]

well I just got home from two days at Star Wars Weekends at Disney, and I have to say that this thread is like a bunch of the people there. I cant count how many people would walk up to the autograph lines and ask why they couldnt get in. When they were told that they needed a fastpass, and that they had all been distributed before the park opened they would whine that they like star wars, and they were ENTITLED to meet the stars. There will always be those who "like" something and want it without the work and research that the people who "love and respect" it are willing to put forth. Their bragging is not being "elitist" its pride at what they did with a little leg work. And if said "likers" every put that much effort or passion into something they would understand and do the same.

[sithlordfaust]

well... I will say this. it can be diffecult to have 200 ready for the right five minutes. I tried last time. unfortunately, Darth Reallife can be a money grubbing lil sith. not hatin on the peeps that get em. not whinin ... Im just sayin. however. when I got my Tax return... the first one that came up aftermarket, I snatched up as fast as I could. and paid a bit over "retail". Now I have a pain in the neck of designing the right hilt to accomodate it and use ALL its features.. so message to those who dont have em. its a right of passage. like losing your um.... cherry. if it happens before it should, you wouldnt know what to do with it if you had in front of you.

[Lord Dottore Matto]

Now I have a pain in the neck of designing the right hilt to accomodate it and use ALL its features.. so message to those who dont have em. its a right of passage. like losing your um.... cherry. if it happens before it should, you wouldnt know what to do with it if you had in front of you.

that is very well put and totally true

[Jedi-Loreen]

Even though I've been part of the saber community for a long time, I do not feel that my skills are yet up to par with creating a saber that would be worthy of housing a CF (though this is partly due to the fact that I do not have access to some of the proper tools) and taking advantage of all it's features.

That doesn't mean I wouldn't try to get one if I had the money. But I wouldn't rush into putting together a saber for it, I'd hang onto it till I was ready to use it.

[Kal El Rah]

As J-Lo puts it, that's what I did with my 1st custom "THE KAREN". Took me 9 months after I received my CFSC to finally start and finish it.

[grayven]

I had my first and to date only CF for over a year before it found it's way into a saber. It was not going to go into just any hilt that was for sure. I have just today ripped it out of that saber so I could rebuild it and make a more suitable home for it. Same hilt sorta just better.

[Barmic Rin]

I already had the parts for my hilt, but didn't put the CF in there until all the lathe work had been done. I'm in the same camp as J-lo when it comes to limited tools, so I would need to modify my hilt slightly when it comes to putting the blade lock feature etc into action when I get my new board.
It is a real right of passage, and it has to be said that I did feel abit smug at CE when I was one of only 4 or 5 people with a CF in their saber, whilst most others had simple MR's....

[strengthofrage]

I have a v3.1... I took a lil under a year to build a saber around it. At the moment I am designing a new saber for the 3.1 to be transferred into. I like how the last one turned out but I have decided it is more on the MR616 level really. That is the cool part about this hobby... nothing is permanent (depending on how you build a saber of course), nothing says you can't 'gut-and-trade' whenever you want. If you are someone that likes making them for other people than obviously you cant, I am talking about personal collections. Another bonus to swapping components is you can upgrade your saber and your skills at once... "My last saber has a CF but it was a tight fit in the hilt, this time I think I'll try a chassis system"... If you think like Tim did for his US2.0 & 2.1 battery/sound card/speaker combo, you can get 'modular' with your personal sabers. Make a CF chassis with quick disconnects that you can slide out of one saber and into another.... then back again when your taste changes.

I guess I really didn't have a direction I was headed with this post, just wanted to toss in my two cents as far as feast, famine & tumbleweeds are concerned ;)

...On a side note, if you check out the Plecter Labs site, Erv has posted pictures of his newly remodeled lab at his new place. On the table are a good amount of tumbleweeds getting ready to roll outta town :)

[Novastar]

Even though I've been part of the saber community for a long time, I do not feel that my skills are yet up to par with creating a saber that would be worthy of housing a CF (though this is partly due to the fact that I do not have access to some of the proper tools) and taking advantage of all it's features. ... ...:!: :!:

Ok, so if J-Lo doesn't have the skills... and Gravy waited until kingdom come to make the right hilt... hmm... HMMMMmmm...

...people are now officially making me feel bloody GUILTY for putting them into the Flange III hilts. Which (really)... are nothing more than adapted sink tubes + some TCSS parts. What could be more simple.

Maybe I will stick with a little bit of "Han Solo" 'tude and sneer: "[They] may not look like much kid[s], but [they've] got it where it counts."

;)

[JediMasterDak]

I really like your Flange sabers Nova! CF goes well with them! :D