To build or to buy

[Swordlord]

I was just curious what folks think of the sabers other sabersmiths create.
1. Would you buy a saber you thought was really well designed, or too over-the-top to ignore, thereby supporting a fellow saber artist?
2. Would you 'borrow' the most appealing design elements from the saber, creating one for yourself that was similar, yet not identical, and still give props to the maker for some great ideas?
3. Would you mutter to yourself, "Heck no! I'll make my own! Why pay someone else for something I can build myself!?!"
4. Not purchase it because you don't currently have the funds to buy a resistor, let alone DIY parts or a fully designed & built custom saber?

[FenderBender]

I was just curious what folks think of the sabers other sabersmiths create.
1. Would you buy a saber you thought was really well designed, or too over-the-top to ignore, thereby supporting a fellow saber artist?
2. Would you 'borrow' the most appealing design elements from the saber, creating one for yourself that was similar, yet not identical, and still give props to the maker for some great ideas?
3. Would you mutter to yourself, "Heck no! I'll make my own! Why pay someone else for something I can build myself!?!"
4. Not purchase it because you don't currently have the funds to buy a resistor, let alone DIY parts or a fully designed & built custom saber?

1. Yes, I have wanted several of these guys' sabers. Even though I could 'probably' build some of them myself.

2. Done it. Acknowledging the source though is just common courtesy. Some people ignore it, but everyone else will notice:rolleyes:

3. Ive said, "I could build that" before, but if I had the extra scratch laying around, I still wouldn't mind supporting other smiths. Like that last one of Jay-Gonn's, I was reeeaaaally tempted on that one.

4. Guilty

[Ideal]

number 4 hits me up quite often, i dont really have the funds either way.

for the most part though, i feel custom sabers are a personal thing. if i was gonna buy a saber, why not just go to the store and buy a FX saber or something of the like.

that isnt to say you cant buy something you have no hope of creating yourself (many of us have not perfected dremel-fu), but a custom saber that speaks as an extension of yourself should be either built on your own or designed by yourself and custom made by the person with the skills you lack

when it came down to it, i could have bought many a saber on ebay or some other sites and saved myself loads of headache trying to get the wiring and soldering and all that done right. once you count the labor and effort a novice had to put into making even a simple saber, i probably would have come out cheaper buying from someone else. but then it wouldnt have the same "this is MY saber" feel to it
(im rather long winded tonight)
so for me, either custom built by the person is the way to go

maybe those with tons of sabers built will feel different about it though, as im sure the "this is my saber" feeling drifts off after a while

[FenderBender]

Yeah that feeling is usually just replaced with the "gotta have more" feeling.

[Swordlord]

Yeah that feeling is usually just replaced with the "gotta have more" feeling.
At one point in my college days, I had a small placard that said:

He who dies with the most toys -- wins!

[Hasid Lafre]

Yes but Denis leary said the kid that eats the most marbles dosent life to see the second grade.

[ARKM]

1. I would definately buy a saber from another manufacturer... if I could afford to. Right now I'm as poor as they come.

2. Yes. Although most of my stuff comes from me, there will be times when I "borrow" other saber maker's elements. So far the only intentional borrowing I have done is from copyrighted lightsabers and not something another custom saber maker has done. The key word being "intentional".

3. Not really. I have made over 25 sabers but have yet to make one for myself. It might be a very long time before I do.

4. See the second sentence of #1. I have 35 cents in the bank... sweet!

[gundamaniac]

I have borrowed elements from another sabersmith before. I borrowed heavily from the Obi-Wan hilts and took a couple of cues from Jay-gonn's machined custom for Obeisance.

The main things that prevent me from purchasing custom sabers are pride and money. I take pride in having built my own sabers. I love owning sabers that are actually mine in the sense that I designed and built them. It just wouldn't feel the same to me to wield a saber someone else built or even to wield a saber that I designed and had built for me. I also love designing and building sabers...it's just fun. I'm not into sabers because I can show off my moves with my glorified glowstick (have you seen me try and wield a lightsaber? It's like watching the star wars kid all over again...). I'm into sabers because I love the creation process. I'm also too broke to afford completed custom sabers. I can only afford the cost of parts (empty Obeisance hilt = around 30-40 dollars)...I can't afford the cost of labor.

That said, I have been sorely tempted by sabersmiths' works before. And I'd rather leave building sabers like replica hilts in the much more capable hands of others. I'm just too broke. So my mouse hovered between option 1 and option 4...in the end I chose 4.

Disclaimer: I do own some Master Replicas hilts that I got for cheap. I wanted some movie hilts (Vader's because I'm a Vader fanatic, and Obi-Wan's cuz...well...the fact that my personal hilt is an "obeisance" to Obi-Wan should tell you why) and I'm too broke to afford nicely made replicas by reputable sabersmiths. I'm currently trying to drop hints to my friends to just give me cash for my upcoming birthday so I can pick up the Obi TPM Force FX that's coming out :D

[Darth_DevilGuy]

yeah all of the above

[Swordlord]

I should have added an 'All of the above' answer. Oh well, live & learn.

[beggarsoutpost]

Buyer...seller....trader....builder...That would have to be all of the above for me as well....
Right now my list is pretty varied...Still need a Obi ANH and a Qui-Gon TPM..not going to be able to make either one of those....Going to have to have them built...I build for me.. for sell.. and for trade....Right now my personal saber is a custom MHS that Tim built....a couple of the parts from that saber were designed by Arkai Halon...I'd love to have an original Madcow and I still need the Graflex ESB from Master Yoda.....And I'm on board for the release of the Obi and Dooku from Hasbro....It just depends on what going on at the moment.....

[MasterRoop]

i like to build my own stuff. so i would want to use there design but to build it myself. i would like it to maybe "buy" the parts list and the blueprints of the saber for some help getting started.

[swear000]

I think there are great lessons to be learned by constructing ones own hilt. Especially when it comes to voltages and other electronics basics. However, collaborating ideas seems to be very helpful in moving the art forward. Simple things like overlays or crystal chambers came from someones creative imagination. So, it is good to learn from others as well. Without proper tools and equipment, it makes more sense to just buy one made.

[sekrogue1985]

there are times that there are things others make that i just love a lot and want. Others i'm just like why are they selling that if they put so much time and effort into it ya know. Then finally i'm like ya know yeah lolness.

[DaJoQuim]

when someone builds sabers of their own one knows what kind of work goes into making one;therefore,yes I've bought sabers from another saber builder.

[morpheus1977]

I dont think there is a problem with buying from other saber smiths some people may not have the skill or the equipment to make a saber. I know that there have been some really nice hardware sabers out there but somebody who wants more than a hardware saber or a FX saber and does have a little bit of money to spend should be able to talk over an idea to get it created.

[Novastar]

I'm not 100% sure what this topic's purpose is, but... I will say that I think there are three main types of "saber freaks" out there:

A) Someone who builds or buys out of "purpose"--meaning they use the sabers for dueling, have kids that need fun toys, or otherwise finds practical usage from them

B) Someone who builds or buys because they are "collectors"--meaning they love the movie hilts, enjoy replicas, and mostly... these props sit on a wall or desk as prizes or trophies (although these props may be able to take some hits/abuse, etc.)

C) Someone who looks to build, design or buy out of innovation--meaning they look for ways to improve upon existing architecture in LED sabers, and try to achieve something that hasn't been done before (while still making something practical/feasible)

And naturally some people fall under all three, or a mixture of these--some "heavier" on one focal point than another. For example, myself, I am mostly "A"... with a tiny bit of "C"... and almost none of "B".

But, I do appreciate all aspects of the LED saber community (I think I do), and... I've been lucky enough to spend many hours with Yoda--in person--discussing his Graflex chassis and ideas.

Also, for those who don't know, Don is fashioning my first "totally custom" saber, and I'm very much looking forward to this. And with my limited experience, I am able to come at him from a NOMINALLY intelligent angle... whereas 100% totally inexperienced people might request unreasonable things for the saber... or ones that might cost $300 for a single idea alone--and not be prepared for such a price tag.

So, ultimately, I think anyone who wants a CUSTOM saber... should be EDUCATED a bit about sabers prior to being able to order one. And owning an MR *barely* would count in my opinion. :)

I have no idea if I de-railed this thread, but... I hope it adds something.

[Ideal]

yeah, i dont fall under any of your 3 main types Novastar. i guess the closest would be A, but i dont build to duel, or for my kids, and i really dont have any practical useage for a saber

its like saying there are only 2 types of action figure collectors, those that open and those that dont. i would be considered an opener, but that doesnt explain the boxes of MOC figures i have in my basement

for me, this is really just an extension of my hobbies. i would say i dabel in pretty much all things from the greater Geekdom, i collect comics and action figures, ive played both Magic and Yugioh, ive played both WoW and COH, i really enjoy Star Wars and at the same time I was quick to sit down to watch Star Trek TNG and Voyager. my greatest claim to geek fame is that when they show the Kryptonian language on Smallville, i can actually read what it says

saber building seemed like the proper next step for me and ive enjoyed it very much thus far. i really dont have anything to offer (as you could tell by the negative remarks my saber got), and i dont do it for any real reason, save to secure my place in the Geekdom and continue enjoying all that entails

[Goodman]

"my greatest claim to geek fame is that when they show the Kryptonian language on Smallville, i can actually read what it says"

^^ Made my weekend :)

[Matt Thorn]

I chose number one, since I have recently in fact bought a hilt (though it hasn't arrived yet). But I think I only bought it because it is "LED ready," and not complete. In other words, it's a hollow hilt. I'm not sure if I'd buy a finished saber. I don't have the tools or know-how to do machining or lathing, so I suffer from machined-parts envy that MHS parts cannot fully satisfy. :rolleyes:

[Lord Dottore Matto]

Many of you have bought form me and I have bought from many of you, that is why we call this a COMMUNITY.

[Novastar]

yeah, i dont fall under any of your 3 main types Novastar. i guess the closest would be A, but i dont build to duel, or for my kids, and i really dont have any practical useage for a saberI wasn't saying it was the end-all be-all... in fact, I was inferring exactly the opposite when I said 3 main types, and also mentioned that people might be a mixture of them.

That being said--from what you said... I'm guessing you'd be more in the "B" thing. But that doesn't mean what I said magically encompasses everything--nor was it intended to do so. Far from it.

Still, in my personal experience...?? Everyone I've come into contact with regarding sabers "swings" closer to one of those three I mentioned.

[Onli-Won Kanomi]

I'd have voted "all of above" but voted 1 because besides my FX sabers I've bought "Cronx" by Randomsabers, 9 Ultrasabers including my coming Overlord, a "Golden Graflex" brass LukeANH hilt from King Of Parts because it was beautiful and the first saber i saw 30 years earlier and it was the anniversary, a Revan hilt from tattoosby5/conceptprops because I consider Revan the greatest of all SW characters, an Inquisitor hilt from Saberforge because I liked the design, and a secondhand Qui-Gon hilt made by Do-Clo so I guess I'd have to say I've bought more from other smiths than I've built [yet].

That said, from Novastars options I'd have to say I'm opposite him with mostly "C"...with a tiny bit of "A"...but like him I'm almost none of "B" - movie replicas dont interest me as much as original designs and of those I do have I'm not concerned if my FX arent 'exact' or how 'canon' various details are.

I'm more a DESIGNER than anything else but I will borrow and synthesize design elements and give fair credit as in voting option 2 and I'll build as much as I can but within limits of my toolz and skillz which are rather limited indeed so I see nothing wrong with paying those with skills and tools I lack to make parts for a custom saber that I couldnt make myself...

...afterall even in the movies it isnt suggested that all Jedi built their sabers from 'scratch' hand lathing it from solid stock [kudos to all those gifted smiths who can] and in one of the EU books they found an old crashed Jedi ship with a room full of saber parts so it seems even 'canon' Jedi often only ASSEMBLED their sabers from commonly mass-manufactured interchangeable parts - as we also see in the PT must be the case with multiple identical common-part-built 'clan sabers' popular among even high ranking Jedi masters [Apparently the Old Jedi Order had a 'Strydur' making modular MHS style parts? lol]

Theres no way in heck I could ever build an Obi TPM pommel myself but thank you Acerocket for making a few available, thank you Darth Morbius/Ultra for the Imperial Knight pommels, thank you RoysBlues/Ultra for the coming Oppressor emitters and above all Thank You Strydur for the great MHS system hilt parts they are compatible with so the sabers I do build can be nicer than a hardware saber...thats why its SO great there is a CUSTOM Saber Shop so we dont all have only a limited range of character replicas to choose our sabers from eh?

[SpectreT65]

Voted number 2 - largely because I can't afford the quality work that makes me drool from other sabermiths. If I had to describe my "type" it'd be somewhat from each of N-Star's types, but I also echo the thoughts of others here - at the end of the day, I want a hilt that's mine - my design, and as much handcrafting as I can do; Without Tim's MHS parts, though, I'd be up the proverbial estuary without a means of locomotion when it comes to a base for the sabers I'm making.

My (long-term) goal is to finish the arsenal for me and my friends, then (since I am addicted to this little hobby) start doing a few pieces to hawk on Fleabay to fund the next saber I'm going to build to fund the next saber... you get the idea.

[Swordlord]

Novastar -- I don't think you derailed the topic at all. In fact you added an important aspect to the general question I was asking by somewhat defining (at least in your/my shared opinion) of what type of saber fans/users/builders/etal are out there. I think it correlates directly to the poll. :!:

As for the 'point' of the topic, it was to satisfy my curiosity regarding just one of the many facets of someone interested in any of the buildable saber forms (EL, LED, LED strip, etc). There are a number of things which drive people to take up certain hobbies, and I wanted some information regarding if/what people are willing to purchase within the saber realm.

As an example, I'm a metalsmith and potter (who currently has no studio space :cry:). When I go to arts festivals and galleries, I'm always drawn to what other people are doing in metal and ceramic arts. I generally do not buy a piece of jewelry, a piece of holloware, or a pot unless I find something irrevocably special and unique about it. I believe in supporting my fellow artists, but unless every aspect of the piece rings true to me, I'll admire it and move on. If it does hit all the right chords, I'll probably - if it's within my means - purchase it and treasure it. So, if you were looking for a specific "how does this relate to building sabers" point, that's as close as you're going to get.

[Anavrin]

My fiance and I have purchased twin ALW hilts (She calls them "Need"), but normally I've got -0$- in spending *dies*

[Darth Siggious]

I would absolutely buy someone else's saber, and I agree with you Swordlord where you say pretty much only if its something truly unique and special.

There are a few on here that I'd love to buy, but I'm pretty sure their owners would not part with them, such as Grapixa's new curved double hilt (which so brilliantly blends Maul and Ventress), Arm on Fire's Anomaly, and Tobu's new custom.

Which brings to to my point, this is a hobby, and I'm a hobbyist, and most of the fun comes from designing, building, troubleshooting, and then ultimately marvelling at your creation. Which almost always means that the best sabers are not for sale.

I don't like the building of sabers strictly to make money though, a Jedi does not do this, even a Sith wouldn't (why would I want my enemies to know my secrets?). Art is not achieved when monetary gain is the goal.

[MasterRoop]

I don't like the building of sabers strictly to make money though, a Jedi does not do this, even a Sith wouldn't (why would I want my enemies to know my secrets?). Art is not achieved when monetary gain is the goal.

I agree!!! the light saber is a jedi's life.

[Anavrin]

Art is not achieved when monetary gain is the goal.

I disagree–art is easily achieved even when compensatory gain is ultimately desired (money is a narrow field of view). However it can only be so when the one creating is doing so purely the create and gain, and creates solely of their own free will with no external force. If I build a beautiful saber with the intent of selling it, it can still be art though I build it for sale. In that, profit and creation are sought purely, unwilling to compromise either.

However, I agree, if one makes some compromise to either, the art is lost. If I compromise the build for speed or cost, I obviously sacrifice my craft. But if I sacrifice my profit and part of my reason to build, then I sacrifice part of the drive that propelled me to create.

That isn't to say one can't create without an eye to profit, but rather that when building, whether for the build or profit, one can't compromise or the art is, truly, lost.

[Darth Siggious]

Interesting points Anavrin and spoken (or typed :p) very well too.

I've always felt that art is inspiration turned into expression, and if you compromise either one of them (not even considering monetary gain), then you lose everything. Period.

I've also always felt that the best sabers to buy are those that start out by saying, "I really don't want to part with this one, but I have to" or "It really hurts to sell this one" - something to that effect. I'm not saying that I'd rather buy something that someone doesn't want to sell like some sadistic freak, but these sabers are usually better built, better cared for (you know they've been battle tested) and most importantly, pretty much and truly one of a kind.

I always click the back button on ebay when I see a listing that starts out, "Hey, new saber from our labs or forge" or whatever. I think that these sabers are usually uninspired and run of the mill offering little other than tweaking a standard hilt. This is my opinion and I know I'll take heat for it, but that's okay.

(This does not include sabersmiths that will turn your concept sketches into reality for you. Or Do-Clo, his sabers are extremely unique! Dirty, mean and totally totally sick!) :twisted: :twisted:

[Lord Dottore Matto]

I disagree–art is easily achieved even when compensatory gain is ultimately desired (money is a narrow field of view). However it can only be so when the one creating is doing so purely the create and gain, and creates solely of their own free will with no external force. If I build a beautiful saber with the intent of selling it, it can still be art though I build it for sale. In that, profit and creation are sought purely, unwilling to compromise either.

However, I agree, if one makes some compromise to either, the art is lost. If I compromise the build for speed or cost, I obviously sacrifice my craft. But if I sacrifice my profit and part of my reason to build, then I sacrifice part of the drive that propelled me to create.

That isn't to say one can't create without an eye to profit, but rather that when building, whether for the build or profit, one can't compromise or the art is, truly, lost.

This is an interesting discussion amongst folks who are NOT sabersmiths. The idea of art in its purest form is a wonderful concept. It is, however, unrealistic. Most of us build sabers for people because we are constantly hounded to do so. This is my HOBBY and my ART and my RELEASE from a very stressful life. Most smiths actually love it. Most of us do it for little or no monetary gain. Really? you say...so how come custom sabers cost 3,4,5, or $600 then if you guys aren't making money???? Well, we all buy the parts the same place you guys do! Right here at TCSS! Price it out sometime. Actually put everything in your basket that you will need to build the saber you want (and I do mean everything including screws, heatshrink, wire, etc.) just to see how much it is! I'll bet you dollars to dough nuts that you will forget at least 3 things. Then figure out how long it will take you to conceptualize and assemble everything in that 12" space. How long do you think? 1 hour? 8 hours? 36 hours? Are you painting? are you machining? Are you drilling and tapping? What about a blade? Are you making it? When I build for people, I spend countless hours taking care of the minutia that goes into building a working effective and aesthetically desirable saber. What is a smith's knowledge and skill worth? I guess that is open to interpretation, but I build EVERY saber "for Me" whether or not it actually is and all of the other smiths I know do the same thing! Those who have build their own sabers in the past are EASILY the easiest folks to work for because they have and idea of what goes into the project and just how intricate some of these flashlights can indeed be! I mean, Fenderbender's wife only allows him one potty break every 12 hours.


Siggious, You have nailed it on the head when you say:

"I've also always felt that the best sabers to buy are those that start out by saying, "I really don't want to part with this one, but I have to" or "It really hurts to sell this one" - something to that effect. I'm not saying that I'd rather buy something that someone doesn't want to sell like some sadistic freak, but these sabers are usually better built, better cared for (you know they've been battle tested) and most importantly, pretty much and truly one of a kind."

[Sairon]

Interesting points Anavrin and spoken (or typed :p) very well too.

I've always felt that art is inspiration turned into expression, and if you compromise either one of them (not even considering monetary gain), then you lose everything. Period.

I've also always felt that the best sabers to buy are those that start out by saying, "I really don't want to part with this one, but I have to" or "It really hurts to sell this one" - something to that effect. I'm not saying that I'd rather buy something that someone doesn't want to sell like some sadistic freak, but these sabers are usually better built, better cared for (you know they've been battle tested) and most importantly, pretty much and truly one of a kind.

I always click the back button on ebay when I see a listing that starts out, "Hey, new saber from our labs or forge" or whatever. I think that these sabers are usually uninspired and run of the mill offering little other than tweaking a standard hilt. This is my opinion and I know I'll take heat for it, but that's okay.

(This does not include sabersmiths that will turn your concept sketches into reality for you. Or Do-Clo, his sabers are extremely unique! Dirty, mean and totally totally sick!) :twisted: :twisted:


What he said.

[Obi-Ben]

I love the work of professional saber builders, but I feel like my saber should be unique and entirely my own. That said, my abilities are limited and my equipment is severely lacking, so I'm willing to go half way and get lots of help so long as I can say that my completed saber is as much my creation as anyone elses.