Dark Jedi and Sith, What the hell is the difference between the two?

[Hasid Lafre]

Like the title says, what is the diff between dark jedi and sith?

[eastern57]

Just like the ancient Sith people, the name is derived from a specific race that followed the dark side. The "Sith Lords" simply adopted the name when they started practicing that religion.

A "Dark Jedi" implies an individual that was indoctrinated or raises in the Jedi culture... and then turned to the dark side later on.

The ancient Sith and Jedi lifestyles were very different in the sense that one practiced the alchemic manipulation of the force (using it for one's purpose), while the other practiced incorporating the force (going with the flow).

Of course, later on, the two terms ran so parallel that the distinction became blurred and the two became synonymous...

[LordMasoch]

Another thought on the matter:
As eastern said, the Sith were a race that were adept at using the dark side. After the race died out, what we commonly know as Sith now follow the teachings of the ancient race, as found in the temples on the Sith homeworld.

A dark Jedi may not be Sith, but could just be a Jedi that has fallen, or a Jedi that uses the dark side. For example, when Luke turned to the dark side in the EU, he was not a Sith. It could also be argued that Vader was not technically a Sith either, though he did use the sith title of Darth.

It is my understanding (through reading the Darth Bane book) that the Sith were taught basically from the start to be dark, rather than be converted Jedi.

Although, to confuse matters more, what we think of as Sith (the Sith Lords if you will), were all once regular Jedi, so it could be argued that, following the above thinking, can not be Sith. YAY for circular logic!

[Count Malik]

A dark jedi is a force sesitive persons who can/was a jedi earlyer then was corruped by the dark side. It can also be a force sensitive persons who was trained by another fellow dark jedi. Sith are or can be a dark jedi that follows a more of a cult following- the earlyer Sith lords had a law in most older and some preasent teachings that was called the rule of two. Which means only two sith a time. Then (if you read the SW legacy of the Force books and comics)they (the new sith lords) created another law which is the being the rule of one meaning that the sith can have as many sith lords (and there apprentices too.) as they perferd. In this law/rule you can and usually have a leader/grand Sith Lord. The rule of one lets you have as many sith as perferd, but they all rule as one insted of two. (alittle off topic) Rogue Jedi: rogue Jedi are apart of the jedi order. They usually start becoming a rogue jedi at the rank of high-knight and usually become master. They have brutal fighting styles (force powers included) they are not dark jedi though, they follow the jedi order just like any other jedi. Some rogue Jedi are Cade & Kole Skywalker, Kep Durron (somewhat), Kyle Katarn, ect... Need any more information just drop a PM. 8) What!!! It goes along with the lightsabers!!!:mrgreen: Hope I helped!!:p

[Hasid Lafre]

I should of mentioned that the sith Iam talking about are not the sith race but you know sith, palpy and them sort.

[MaverickJsmith]

What I gathered over the years is: A Dark Jedi is one who has fallen from the light, for one reason or another.

A sith is one who was either raised that way, or was converted. They could have even been a dark jedi who was taken in by a Sith lord.

That's my 2 cents.

Maverick 8)

[LeMoel]

My opinon differs some and comes from Supershadow.com"lucas/supershadows website

Dark Jedi: A force user that uses the darkside of the force but does not know/ been Trained in the ways of the Sith.
Examples...
Asajj Ventress

Maris Brood:Shaak Ti's apprentice ,Force unleashed.

General Grevious :lucas stated several months ago that General grevious had to have some force powers to kill that many jedi.But was not a Sith)

Mara Jade: When she was a emperor's hand she was a Dark jedi.

Darki Jedi thats going to be in Episode 7 - shindor,Spiden and so on..

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SITH LORD'S

Count Dooku/Darth Tryanus- Can also be called a dark jedi for once being a jedi but is in fact a Sith Lord

Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader - Can also be called a dark jedi for once being a jedi but is in fact a Sith Lord

Darth Sidious

Darth Rage

Darth Maul

Darth Plegieus "the wise"

and so on....

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HARD ONE's TO JUDGE

Darth Vaders aprentice- Theres a good chance that he had Sith teachings but it would still be hard to believe that he isn't classified as a dark Jedi.Will have to find out***

APPARENTLY

It is also said through that the Dark Jedi are the one's who conquered the Sith Wizards and utilised there magic and took the title of Sith lords

heres the link anyones interested http://www.supershadow.com/starwars/jedi_sith.html

[Master Terrid]

You can find out more regarding this thread at

http://www.atom.com/funny_videos/sw_the_last_sith/

Master Terrid

[Hasid Lafre]

Ok fyi unless its already been stated factual anything from supershadow is compleat and utter bunkiss.

[Mazarill Slay]

Didn't read all the posts so if someone said this my bad.

the Sith were a race before Jedi who had fallen to the darkside were called Sith. The reason Fallen Jedi came to be called Sith was because they valued the religious views of the Sith Race. While the Sith follow a Code. Dark Jedi do not.

[Darth_DevilGuy]

according to wookiepedia, dark jedi are darkside force users, either fallen jedi or trained by fallen jedi, while the sith are a cult that stems from the ancient sith culture and has been revived several times through the influence of force ghosts or the study of sith holocrons.

It also goes on to point out that the sith and the jedi have unique techniques that the other can't or won't use, such as sith alchemy, or midi chlorien manipulation, or the jedi technique of Morichro

Being a fallen or dark Jedi does not preclude one from becoming a sith, and many sith such as Darth Tyranus, and Darth Vader, used dark jedi Techniques and or abilities.

[Mazarill Slay]

Yeah I read that article but forgot some stuff in it XD

[LeMoel]

Ok fyi unless its already been stated factual anything from supershadow is compleat and utter bunkiss.

read this link http://www.supershadow.com/starwars/jedi_sith.html its factual ,more factual then anything else is on the internet. Apparently wookiepedia and wikipedia are information that comes from the games and books which are just expanded universe which isn't George Lucas's vision

supershadow.com is supose to be the most acurate

[Hasid Lafre]

And SS has also had been told by LFL to remove a majority of info from his site, The EU may not be GL vision but he also overseas all EU material.

Where this SS being more factual than anything else on the net came from I have no idea, Its just best to avoyed him and get info from elsewhere.

[Darth_DevilGuy]

yeah... that super shadow site... that guy is obviously insane... he has bizarre scripts for episodes 7 8 and 9 which read like fan fiction, he claims to have interviewed George Lucas tomarrow which... well... just get real.

[annon]

Wow...that's the first time I've seen that site, boy oh boy...
My favorite part is were "George Lucas and SuperSadow will travel the world holding auditions for the fans at many cities across the world."
or the picture of his "girlfriend"
*cough* nut job *cough*

[Master Dru-Er]

I've never seen his page either. I'll have what he's smoking.:roll:

[LeMoel]

Well if it is real he played Nebar Foxis in ROS,hes a no name jedi that died in the temple trying to protect the younglings,apparently he has one small shot in ROS.

I saw an interview with him and ss im sure it was back a year or two a go,ill try to search and see if i can find it on you tube.

If LFL did tell him to take some things off of his site then he must know some things that they don't want people to know.

Your right apparently george does over see all the EU stuff and uses some of it in the movies he has stated.

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one thing i dont understand about the expanded universe definetion of a "dark Jedi" is if you have to be a former jedi or trained by a former jedi then what does that make ventress? remember the sith rule of 2??

but your right who knows what the heck is actually real on the net

[Darth_DevilGuy]

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one thing i dont understand about the expanded universe definetion of a "dark Jedi" is if you have to be a former jedi or trained by a former jedi then what does that make ventress? remember the sith rule of 2??

but your right who knows what the heck is actually real on the net

Ventress was a jedi before she fell, according to the EU data, she was taken as a Padawan by a jedi stranded on her homeworld, he was assasinated before he could complete her training and she fell to the dark side.

[LeMoel]

oh yeah crazy i remember reading that on wikepddia, well then my main question still is say you arent trained by a jedi but you also arent a sithlord, but you use the darkside,then what are you?

[Mazarill Slay]

A dark Jedi..

even though without the training you would still be classified as a dark jedi due tot he fact you use the dark side of the force.

[Darth_DevilGuy]

or you could be a darkside adept of a different sort, like the krath or the Jensari...

[LeMoel]

yeah thats what i thought too,as along as your not a sith then your a dark jedi. A dark side adept is a dark jedi just different name for it i believe,just like being an emperors hand.

yeah so that solves my vision. What do you guys think of general grevious as ?

[Darth_DevilGuy]

yeah thats what i thought too,as along as your not a sith then your a dark jedi. A dark side adept is a dark jedi just different name for it i believe,just like being an emperors hand.

yeah so that solves my vision. What do you guys think of general grevious as ?

I have to disagree, a dark jedi, I think, is a fallen jedi or darkside user trained by a fallen jedi, they can be distinguished from other sorts of darkside users by their use of jedi techniques and trappings, and probably combat style, where other darkside force users have entirely different ways of doing things, that are unlike the practices of jedi or dark jedi.

I think Grievous was a cyborg, who knew how to swing a light saber, I don't think he was a dark jedi because he didn't act much like a jedi of any sort.

[Mazarill Slay]

I think a Dark jedi is not techiniclly a dark person, just a lost Jedi until provoked by someone who has accepted the Darkness Brings them into a path they cannot leave (except for some cases)

[Melek Taus]

I consider Dark Jedi as ex-Jedi or Sith who decide the philosophy of either Order to be flawed, lacking, too constraining or too dogmatic in practice. So, they leave the training behind. They may even be Force Sensitives that have had no official training under a Master. All they know is what they have discovered out of luck, accident or self-study. Ex-Jedi, Ex-Sith or non-affiliated Force Sensitives have no restraint on using so called "Light side" or "Dark side" abilities if the need arises. To them there is only the Force. It is the character of the individual using the Force that determines whether they are "Light" or "Dark" or "Neutral". A Dark Jedi will tend to seek a higher level of understanding and truth about the Force, foregoing useless dogmatic practices. I would equate them similar to an Agnostic in modern day religions. They don't want anything to do with either side. They just are. Some may tend to lean more toward "the Light" or the "Dark" due to the nature of their character. I prefer to call them Force Heretics myself....:O)


Melek Ta'us

[LeMoel]

i dont think its impossible to only say a dark jedi has to be a former jedi or trained by a former jedi...

because the empepors asssains were never trained by a jedi,but there not sith because of the rule of 2 so they must be dark jedi or dark force user of some kind

[Hasid Lafre]

Interesting view Melek Ta'us, Very interesting.

But Lemoel remember the story is only focused on one part of the galaxy, So whose to say that this rule of two is only going on there? What if in another region of space there's another rule of two going on.

Many Sith Masters many Sith Lords but only 2 here and many like it everywhere else.

I mean when you look at the SW universe map you see the several areas of uncharted or whatnot space. So whose to say that in a region of uncharted space isn't a school of sith that are like the jedi with the school...ah... temple but are sith. but don't follow the laws or the ambitions of the sith that we know.

But yeah that's my view on the rule of two.

So back to the dark jedi thing, This is what I have been thinking about and reading this and that and here is my view.

So I do agree that dark jedi were once jedi that didn't fall to the dark side like vader did with palpy and were taught under a sith master.

I feel the dark jedi are just that the jedi that were exiled on a planet and learned the darker side but still use the light side powers, They are like what I would call the red mage, not as good as a white or a black mage alone but use the best of both sides.

The sith that we think of, the dark lords, the masters, the vaders, the paplys, etc etc. They are the ones that get over come with greed and power and that's where the killing of the master comes from and why there is the rule of two. (read above for my thoughts on the rule of two).

But that still doesn't stop thou, look at vader he has many apprentices, same with dooku, So this "the rule of two is flawed"!

You kill your master then you get your apprentice!

Ok so the dark jedi are the ones that originally started the thing, They were fallen jedi that never took under a sith master, They are the red mage!

But this bugs me somewhat and it maybe just another thought of my thoughts I dont know.

Ok there are the jedi and the temples, there are the sith with the rule of two, there are the dark jedi and there temples, The light side must have a rule of two type system itself like the sith and not have temples or schools. The two that are to carry the history and lore and teachings....Not a school of books like the jedi.

Know what I mean?

[LeMoel]

Hmm stil dosent compute for some reason, yeah the galaxy is monstrous but if there were more sith then we would mosy likley know about it because they would be vying for power.

I agree that there coul;d be other Sith out there but i think they either turned light or were abanded by there master or got very injured so they cant really fight as mush anymore,cybergentic parts exctra.

Episode 7 revolves around dark jedi, and what i have been told many times which i dont know which is or is not true that the dark jedi have been building for years and were in hiding in episode 1-6. now they decided to attack.

Now i feel that the rule of 2 is still intact because theres nothin saying that anyones apprentices were SITH LOrds, they were dark side adepts of somekind. Which is fair to call them dark jedi.

You think the emperor would actually teach his assasins the secrets of the sith? no way... then a bunch of them could over throw him.

The Dark Side dosent only consist of the Sith this is a "fact". The Sith is a teaching or belief, theres other ways to fall to the dark side. Not every dark side user is a Sith. you need to know the Sith teachings.

of course this is just my opinon ,to me it jsut wouldnt make sense any other way.

[Melek Taus]

I'm having problems with the need for a teacher at all. There are sects of Force users out there that have never been part of the Jedi or Sith. Jacen spends 5 years learning diiferent techniques from them. Like Force walking back in the past when he takes Tahiri back to when Anakin Solo died so she can be with him. These aren't Jedi or Sith skills...they are force skills. How would you classify them? Also...how did the Jedi and Sith come about originally? Someone discovered the Force and over time became to use it for various things. Why can't there be people out there still who do the same thing? How would you classify them? Just Force users?

Do you have to be a Jedi or Sith to become powerful? That's like saying just because you never learned....say, Judo or Karate that you can't fight. How about the Dathormir Witches? Granted they are "Dark" but they are not Sith...nor were they.


Melek

[Crimsonjedi]

I think you are right Melek that you don't need to be powerful in the force, but you definitely need to have a teacher or some type of teaching instrument to go by. Potential is not enough to be powerful in the force, you need to learn how to focus and wield that power. Your Dathomir Witch example is actually a good example. The inhabitants of Dathomir were rancor munchies until a jedi came to the planet and taught the female warriors the way of the force. Now the witches control the planet. Some of them are good and some are bad.

[Darth_DevilGuy]

I'm having problems with the need for a teacher at all. There are sects of Force users out there that have never been part of the Jedi or Sith. Jacen spends 5 years learning diiferent techniques from them. Like Force walking back in the past when he takes Tahiri back to when Anakin Solo died so she can be with him. These aren't Jedi or Sith skills...they are force skills. How would you classify them? Also...how did the Jedi and Sith come about originally? Someone discovered the Force and over time became to use it for various things. Why can't there be people out there still who do the same thing? How would you classify them? Just Force users?

Do you have to be a Jedi or Sith to become powerful? That's like saying just because you never learned....say, Judo or Karate that you can't fight. How about the Dathormir Witches? Granted they are "Dark" but they are not Sith...nor were they.


Melek
Exactly my point, I think dark Jedi are specifically fallen Jedi or those trained by fallen Jedi, they use the dark side, and have pretty much the same skill set as a regular Jedi, it's their motives that differ.

Other force using orders, have their own names, and have nothing to do with the Jedi, therefore they aren't dark Jedi.

Essentially I would classify a dark Jedi as a Jedi that uses the dark side, and has selfish or malevolent motivation.

[LeMoel]

Hmm i agree with everything that was said about there being other types of force users.

but i also think you need a teacher... and the reason you would call a non jedi/non sith a dark jedi is because they use the dark side of the force which is still coruption.

buuuut if you not a sith not a jedi and you dont use the dark side of the forcr then theres no way you can be a dark jedi riiight.

i think it would be a nameless thing as you guys said a "force user" ive also heard of lightside for users who werent jedi's called sutrans

[Melek Taus]

What about those who knew how to weild the Force before there ever was Jedi or Sith?

What do you call them?

I think we are too hung up on the somantics of it all. But I can understand why. Dark to most automatically implies the concept of evil...and Jedi...light. Let's take modern religions as an example and I know alot will disagree with me. Let's use Christians....if you are a devout follower of Christianity...anyone who does not believe in what you believe are in league with Satan...no if's and's or but's. So...all non-Christians are doomed to go to some place not nice. I don't want to get into a religion discussion but that's the paralles I see in it. So really....extremests, which is what a Jedi and a Sith is....would consider those not of their ilk as either doomed....or weak depending on the ideology.

Personally....I think it boils down to perception....insert Palpatine quote here.

LOLOLOL

Melek

[LordMasoch]

Melek, VERY good point. To put it unreligiously to avoid flamewars, the ideologues of the Jedi believe the Sith need to be saved, and visa versa. Episode 3 has an interesting point to see things from the Dark side: Someone may be "dark" because they believe love to have its place in the Force, where the Jedi believe you must release all worldly feelings (love, happiness, sadness, hate). It could be said the Jedi are Buddhist in their beliefs, where the Sith embrace feeling (not just hate).

It is my belief the Sith use hatred only because it is such a strong feeling to fuel their powers. One could use love in the same regard, and still be considered "evil" in the eyes of the Jedi.

[Lord Preston]

Let's use Christians....if you are a devout follower of Christianity...anyone who does not believe in what you believe are in league with Satan...no if's and's or but's. So...all non-Christians are doomed to go to some place not nice. I don't want to get into a religion discussion but that's the paralles I see in it.

Lets not. Seriously, people take us Christians too extreme. And most people are ignorant, and make us seem like the bad guys. And we do not believe that all non-Christians are in league with Satan.:rolleyes: Very ignorant of you to say that.

[Taylor]

What about those who knew how to weild the Force before there ever was Jedi or Sith?

What do you call them?

I think we are too hung up on the somantics of it all. But I can understand why. Dark to most automatically implies the concept of evil...and Jedi...light. Let's take modern religions as an example and I know alot will disagree with me. Let's use Christians....if you are a devout follower of Christianity...anyone who does not believe in what you believe are in league with Satan...no if's and's or but's. So...all non-Christians are doomed to go to some place not nice. I don't want to get into a religion discussion but that's the paralles I see in it. So really....extremests, which is what a Jedi and a Sith is....would consider those not of their ilk as either doomed....or weak depending on the ideology.

Personally....I think it boils down to perception....insert Palpatine quote here.

LOLOLOL

Melek


well its kinda too late as preston said thats not true thats just BS that athesites use and they do it to other relgions too. Lets use Jews just because they don't think their "savior" has come do we christians say they are from hell? no, what about muslims? just because they have a different point of relegion doesn't mean they are hells soldiers as some would say.. Im a christian I have muslim,jewish,and catholic friends do I treat them any different? no! just because whta you think or here doesn't mean its true so please stop making christanity seem like were a "superior relgion" ok its annoying to deal wiht the kinds of people who try to make us seem like A**holes were not, we dedicate alot of time in helping others...please don't bring relgon up again..its nothing but annoyence thanks


-Taylor

[Melek Taus]

Wow!!! Should have realized that was gonna happen...didn't listen to my head. Consider me out of this discussion.

If you want to discuss religion someplace else. I'll be more than happy to.


Melek

[annon]

I think a lot of the confusion with the whole sith/dark jedi thing is that non-force users in the SW universe use the terms wrong. This makes sense tho. When I was a kid the term communist was thrown around a lot, mostly inaccurately. We also see this now with liberal, terrorist, conservative, etc. (and please lets not get in to a political discussion)
Then you have some one like Kyp Durron who declared him self sith when he fell (briefly) to the dark side.
Then there's Vergere, was she a dark jedi, sith, something else?

[Hasid Lafre]

Please lets keep real world religion out of my topic please!