George Lucas hero or Villian

[Pullo]

I just wanted to put my view accross on something. I keep reading things like, "Lucas has sold out" and "lucas is just milking the cashcow" Well I would just like to say... BOLLOCKS!!! (Thats an english word that refers to the testicles but is also useful for other exclamations. )
Before you all shout at your monitors and hurl abuse i would like to point out that I am 37 years old, I went to See ANH when it first came out. I grew up with this franchise, as a child i was almost obsessed with it. I was the first in line for the first performance when my local cinema showed return of the Jedi.
The trilogy inspired me and gave me a love of film and litrature that continues to this day. My son is turned eight last week, he loves star wars almost as much as me, when we went to see the clone wars he heard someone in the seats behind us say that "Lucas has Sold Out". I tried to explain that some people only like the origianl trilogy and not the others and he said " Thats stupid, they're all Star Wars films some are just better thats all."
my son got into Star wars when the marketing for ROTS kicked in, and he loves the original trilogy as much as the prequels. I suppose that as the franchise gets older it needs to evolve to attract new followers. If it didn't evolve would we even have the fantastic Tcss Site and replica sabers, they only seemed to surge in popularity when the prequels came out. Are we ready to become the type of people who will just say "thats wrong I will not except this version as it does not fit exactly the formula that preceded it."
I truly believe that Lucas Loves Star Wars and has the best intentions for the franchise, after all the more succesful it is the longer it can be viable.

[annon]

Pullo, you and I are on the same page my English friend ;)
For people to complain about all the marketing and merchandise and then buy all the SW stuff they can afford seems, well, hypocritical at best.
Also the complaint that CLONE WARS is a kids movie, I say so what. If GL wants to make a kids film I don't see the problem. I grew up watching the Ewoks and DROIDS cartoons. Those didn't "destroy'' SW and this wont ether.
Have you ever heard of GL sending out a team of lawyers to stop a fan film, tare down a DIY lightsaber sight, or put and end to all the costuming sights?
No...
For those who think GL has sold out, there are lots of other things you could do with your time.:rolleyes:

[DaJoQuim]

I was 18 years old when I first saw a new hope and I was shocked on how good a sci-fi movie could be!!I'll be 50 years old next year and I have not had any thing bad to say about the starwars movies .To me either you like them or you don't!!

[sekrogue1985]

he's a villian and i say this with all the love because if it were not for star wars, I'd probably have a much fatter wallet. More space in my closet and well over all idk. He is also my hero because if it were not for star wars I'd probably not have found my wife. However she is not an ubber star wars geek she just likes how passionate i am about it.

[Brackley]

Anyone who complains about the scripting in the newer Star Wars films needs to sit down and watch the Star Wars Holiday Special.

[sekrogue1985]

Pullo, you and I are on the same page my English friend ;)
For people to complain about all the marketing and merchandise and then buy all the SW stuff they can afford seems, well, hypocritical at best.
Also the complaint that CLONE WARS is a kids movie, I say so what. If GL wants to make a kids film I don't see the problem. I grew up watching the Ewoks and DROIDS cartoons. Those didn't "destroy'' SW and this wont ether.
Have you ever heard of GL sending out a team of lawyers to stop a fan film, tare down a DIY lightsaber sight, or put and end to all the costuming sights?
No...
For those who think GL has sold out, there are lots of other things you could do with your time.:rolleyes:

if i rememberr a simpsons episode i believe bill gates is the kind of man who do that. It was Homer's ummm home office business lol

[Phiily Manyaan]

Anyone who has a problem with Star Wars shant be on this forum.

SO THERE!

[Novastar]

I *HONESTLY* do not mean to be flippant or pithy or even "punny" with this comment, but...

...every person has a dark AND light side. :)

To this day, I constantly get my fair share of:

- you're too old to mess with toy sabers
+ wow, how did you make those amazing sabers!
- for a martial arts team... you guys suck pretty hard
+ for being a bunch of volunteers, wow you guys looked great. who did the backflip?
- I can do a backflip way better than that
+ I could never do a backflip, especially with a big sword prop in my hands!
- your shows are bad, poor fighting, slow moves, lame dialogue
+ your shows are INCREDIBLE, great choreography, pretty fast moves for Force FX props, and the stories really move along and draw you in for such short performances
- it took you a year to put together each one??
+ can't wait for the next one! Sorry to hear BOP III is delayed... :(
- not as good as sideswipe
+ better than sideswipe--not b/c of the flips, but wow, staging, plot, sound, dialogue??! whoa!
- how come the 2nd one didn't have more saber fights? it's not as good as the 1st one
+ I thought the 1st was good, then I saw the 2nd... WOW--you guys really bumped things up a notch for a live show!
- you're a bunch of nerds
+ best SW fan film I've ever seen... I still can't believe it was live??!
- should be rotoscoped--doesn't belong online without it
+ were those rotoscoped at all? it looks like they were just not real bright
- this is a bad film, you should do better lighting and editing
+ wow, for a live performance... it almost looks like a film!

Re: sabers, CF, sound

- what's the big deal with your "crystal focus" sabers? I have a force fx saber too, it makes sound, big whoop.
+ omigosh, this blows those force fx sabers away!
- sounds the same as a force fx
+ sounds WAAAY better than a force fx!! how do you get so many sounds?
- doesn't sound like the movie sabers at all
+ sounds exactly like the movie sabers!!
- you have stupid moves, anybody could do that
+ whoa I've never seen anyone spin a saber like that
- doesn't look very bright
+ super bright! almost looks as good as rotoscoping although you're in the dark

and finally:

+ & - will you make me one, I want a blue--the brightest you got, and with all the sounds

:rolleyes: ...and the list goes on. And btw, those are *ALL* REAL COMMENTS that I have received in one form or another, and I basically picked the ones I hear the most often, pretty much combining them for this post.

SO what the hell is my point? Well the point is... even at my teeny-tiny little spot in the SW world:

I'm accosted AND complimented... on the very SAME SUBJECT or concept!! Sometimes justly, sometimes not. Sometimes with good reasoning behind the comment... sometimes not.

But it APPEARS that the overall response--is positive. Overall, the masses aren't saying: "please... just go away. Leave all of this to person X or person Y--they do it much better, and you're just in the way, muddying it all up."

The same goes for George Lucas in my opinion. After all... if HE hadn't put the entire SW stuff together... who would have? And even if it WAS someone else named Bob Smith or whomever... I think they would be accosted/praised just the same.

Ultimately, the popularity of SW within the world tells the story. If it truly is a "dying" thing at present... well... then I can only imagine what it would be like if the SW world was THRIVING... lol :)

Anyhow--if you're not catching what I'm saying... GL can only make (for example) 50% happy at once... with the other 50% not so thrilled.

...And maybe the next day it will be reversed. Can't please 'em all... ALL of the time. ;)

[Draconis Magnus]

I give props to Lucas for giving us Star Wars. But he has lost it in recent years... I think it all started when he wanted to change the ghost image of Anakin at the end of RotJ. That I thought was very dumb and didn't make sense only to introduce the prequel movies... or it could of started when he made the special editions and made Han shoot second.. also not a good edit. The list goes on... but all in all.. he gave us a genre in itself and that I applaud him.

[Novastar]

Drac, that's exactly the point... for every move he makes--he pisses off group X, and placates group Y. And yes, in some cases... it makes nearly EVERYone upset (such as the Han 1st thing).

It's also of importance to remember that the films are (now) only a small part of the SW world at this point in time. Books, memorabilia, toys, electronics (as we know), costumes, film techniques, ILM & special effects, Skywalker Sound & THX, giant full 360 deg. greenscreen rooms, the ranch, the Lucas foundations for children, Lucasarts (the games), and so forth.

It's natural that only so much of this stuff is going to be "all aces" with all of the people.

[annon]

Some people take GL mistakes and blow them way out of proportion. I'm not a fan of the Han shoots 2nd thing ( if Gredo [sp] was that bad a shot, Han should have just got up and left. he would have been safe:mrgreen: ) but the remastered version also had a kick &%$ X-wing/TIE fight. So you win some and you loose some. Besides, I have the original on DVD. It's not like GL destroyed all copies of the original. If you don't like the new version but still like SW just watch the original. :)

[Kronk]

Agreed. The minor tweaks to Cloud City also made a world of difference IMO.

[Novastar]

Exactly.

:) Kronk, I'm glad you mentioned the Cloud City changes--they were definitely great and certainly broadened the feel of everything. And naturally the Greedo and Solo thing is pretty much on almost no one's "thumbs up" list.

You get the good, the bad... and the ugly. But no matter what, it's pretty hard to say something like "Lucas doesn't contribute (or hasn't contributed) ANYthing to anyone in the past 20 years, past 10 years, nor past 5 years." That would be irresponsible.

It'd be like saying Tim hasn't brought anything to the saber community... or myself, or Erv or... many others.

BUT... I'm certain there are people out there who do not like Erv or Tim or myself or Alex or whomever. Some for good reasons... others for nothing of the such.

[ThreeQuadFive]

Anyone who complains about the scripting in the newer Star Wars films needs to sit down and watch the Star Wars Holiday Special.

Muahahahahaahaha!!! :D:lol::twisted:

[DDanDevious]

talk about edits man, in the original version Han actually lies in wait in the shadows of the cantina and when Greedo walks by he jumps out and shanks him with a Bantha bone that has been sharpened on the sidewalk... then he whispers "goodnight you green muh f*cka" in his ear and then he kicks him before leaving the cantina. Personally I liked this alot better, but it was getting a negative reaction so GL changes it to Han simply shooting Greedo in his stupid green face... but I guess this was also to brutal and REAL for people to handle. So it got changed again.

Man I wish GL would stop screwing with the original trilogy... like the music number in Jabbas court? WTF?!?! Although there is some pretty hot twilek action going on (you ever play that in slo mo and check out that blue twileks outfit, nice) but yeh, I dont need a Joe ****er alien doing a duet with my girl Snoodles to make the plot move along... the original was just fine, so long as the green Twilek girl gets feisty and gets her ass dropped in the rancor pit. Its all good.


DDD

[Novastar]

HAHHAHAH, that is hilarious... you crack me up DDan... :-P

And don't get me started on that idiotic musical number they added to EP VI. It doesn't even make sense... although--MAYBE he was trying to somehow magically "cater" to young kids?!? As if showing a hero named "Luke Skywalker" swinging around a green saber whilst in black duds wasn't enough. Oh no. Now we need the "Barney and Friends" musical number. Yes, we need to snatch a portion of the "Sesame Street" audiences. YES, we need more FOUR YEAR-OLDS watching.

Whatever. And please, let's not talk about Anakin's face/visage/ghost changing at the end. The final insult. GEEZ.

[Kronk]

Whatever. And please, let's not talk about Anakin's face/visage/ghost changing at the end. The final insult. GEEZ.

I agree that it's a bit of a shaft to Sebastian Shaw, but it makes more sense story-wise. Anakin never wore Jedi robes as an older adult, so it makes no sense to show him in Jedi robes as a spirit. Putting in Hayden in his Jedi robes "sort of" makes sense because that's how looked when the light side of him "died."

Sort of...

[psab keel]

The problem I had with the change to Hayden in the end of ROTJ is that it was completely unnecessary. Lucas says that it was his spirit when he died as Anakin Skywalker. Yet when Luke unmasked him, he was Anakin Skywalker once again. It makes more sense with Sebastian Shaw.

I agree that George can't please everyone, but I think his problem is that he isn't even willing to surround himself with people that can give him constructive criticism. That's not to say that he should have a bunch of fanboys screaming at him for making changes to his own movies, but from what I have read and seen in interviews, (and he is one of my heroes) he is a VERY stubborn man who always gets his way.

Artists who can't get constructive feedback from fellow artists and artisans is an artist who will become stagnant and it will be reflected in their art.

I love Star Wars. Could some things be better? Yes.

I wish I could be the one to tell him that as much as I admire him, he needs people to work with him that will be honest about what they like and don't like and not take the criticisms to heart and try and learn from them.

[gundamaniac]

Lucas says that it was his spirit when he died as Anakin Skywalker. Yet when Luke unmasked him, he was Anakin Skywalker once again. It makes more sense with Sebastian Shaw.


THANK YOU. That's EXACTLY what I was thinking when I first read about the changes made to the DVD version of the OT in newspapers.

Seriously. If the spirit is supposed to reflect Anakin Skywalker before he died...and Vader was redeemed and "became" Anakin again before he died...then...ol'wrinkly Sebastian Shaw WAS Anakin when Anakin died...thus...Anakin's ghost should be...Sebastian Shaw! Is this or is this not a story about redemption?!?!

[beggarsoutpost]

talk about edits man, in the original version Han actually lies in wait in the shadows of the cantina and when Greedo walks by he jumps out and shanks him with a Bantha bone that has been sharpened on the sidewalk... then he whispers "goodnight you green muh f*cka" in his ear and then he kicks him before leaving the cantina. Personally I liked this alot better, but it was getting a negative reaction so GL changes it to Han simply shooting Greedo in his stupid green face... but I guess this was also to brutal and REAL for people to handle. So it got changed again.

Man I wish GL would stop screwing with the original trilogy... like the music number in Jabbas court? WTF?!?! Although there is some pretty hot twilek action going on (you ever play that in slo mo and check out that blue twileks outfit, nice) but yeh, I dont need a Joe ****er alien doing a duet with my girl Snoodles to make the plot move along... the original was just fine, so long as the green Twilek girl gets feisty and gets her ass dropped in the rancor pit. Its all good.


DDD

Holy...That is the funnest post I've ever read anywhere.........

[LordBane21]

I hold Star Wars very dear. it is something i feel like i can belong to. and if it wasnt for GL i would have this, i would have never talked to any of u on this forum. Star Wars is culture. It changes over time but always hase the star was feel and never drastiaclly changes. yeah CW was kiddie but i loved it. and cant wait to watch it on Ctoon network.

GL keep up the good work. You gave me sumthing to be apart of. The Force is with you my friend. (cept for the han shot second thing. i think u had a slight hickup.) ;)

[LordMasoch]

Holy zombies, batman! This topic has been necroposted!

[annon]

Topic from the grave [dum dum dum]:p

seriously though, I dig lordbanes enthusiasm, I'm glad to (verchual) meet you too;)

[Melek Taus]

Hahahahahahahah!!!!!

[B5813]

I find it odd that some Star Wars fans seem to presume to know more about the story line, characters, and motivations than the man(Lucas) who actually created this whole thing from the ground up.

[Darth Leximus]

Anyone can say what they like, but like Lord Bane says, we all wouldn't be here talking to each other with out him...so he can't be all bad.

[VeggieJedi]

I think GL is a hero, becuase I grew up with the original trilogy since I was 4 and instantly fell in love with the whole story and universe he has created and that will never die.
I can forgive Lucas for any mistakes he has made with recent films because he is only trying to make the franchise survive to meet a different and changing audience, and that can only be a good thing if we want to keep Star Wars alive and get more people interested! :D

[LordBane21]

I can forgive Lucas for any mistakes he has made with recent films because he is only trying to make the franchise survive to meet a different and changing audience, and that can only be a good thing if we want to keep Star Wars alive and get more people interested! :D

Excatly. ;)

[psab keel]

George Lucas is one of my biggest heroes and no matter what he does creatively, even if I don't agree with his tastes, I still respect him as an artist. Hell, I have a picture of him along with Joseph Campbell and other heroes of mine, hanging on my wall.

[Melek Taus]

I I can forgive Lucas for any mistakes he has made with recent films because he is only trying to make the franchise survive to meet a different and changing audience, and that can only be a good thing if we want to keep Star Wars alive and get more people interested! :D

I agree with you that the audience has changed....which is why I think he is going backwards instead of forwards. The audience is more mature in my opinnion. I think the storylines should be more serious. Now I'm not saying you can't have a bit of fun in them. ROTS is the best one next to ESB because they were the most serious. No Jar Jar..Gay Hutt....blah blah. They aren't conducive to the flow of things to me.

Just my .02.
Melek

[Darth_DevilGuy]

I look at Lucas like a fallen jedi, once great, once dynamic and innovative, now a shell of his former self. I think he started falling with the creation of the ewoks. Really, when you come right down to it, that was pandering. I could forgive such things if they weren't ultimately unnecessary, it's not that I think star wars should be for adults only, I grew up on the OT, but the magic of the original movies (ep. IV & V more than VI) was that both kids and adults could appreciate all of the elements.

He started going away from this in RotJ when he realized the marketing potential rested mostly with children, and TPM was probably the worst of the bigscreen offerings in the franchise until clone wars. I had hope for the series after ep II and III which I felt redeemed alot, and had much less of the outright pandering that TPM had, and I thought that maybe he'd actually listened to fans and critics.

Then came clone wars (not the CTN micro series, the new one), really the pandering is back and it's worse than ever before, I'm not saying it doesn't have it's moments, Ashoka is good when she's in combat and not giving random characters annoying and pointless nicknames, and the combat scenes between droid and clone forces were awsome. But pretty much everything else is just childish.

[LordBane21]

Everything is childish. it is keeping the series alive. u may not be happy wiht it but, if u look at movies that arent childish they are ***ual and use a lot profanity. Wich doesnt bug me cause they are good movies and funny but Star Wars is not about that. I think it will change again. just be patient. lol

[Darth_DevilGuy]

Everything is childish. it is keeping the series alive. u may not be happy wiht it but, if u look at movies that arent childish they are ***ual and use a lot profanity. Wich doesnt bug me cause they are good movies and funny but Star Wars is not about that. I think it will change again. just be patient. lol

A thing does not have to be childish for a child to appreciate it, nor does it need to be ***ual or profane for an adult to enjoy it, the original trilogy was so good because it straddled this line quite well, the prequels, especially TPM didn't do nearly as well in this respect, and it was mostly because lucas tried to pander one way or the other. When lucas starts to compromise his own creative vision in order for it to be marketable, I won't hesitate to call him on it.

[LordBane21]

good point

[Melek Taus]

A thing does not have to be childish for a child to appreciate it, nor does it need to be ***ual or profane for an adult to enjoy it, the original trilogy was so good because it straddled this line quite well, the prequels, especially TPM didn't do nearly as well in this respect, and it was mostly because lucas tried to pander one way or the other. When lucas starts to compromise his own creative vision in order for it to be marketable, I won't hesitate to call him on it.

Great analysis. You don't have to have *** scenes and profanity for me to enjoy your movie but don't insult my intelligence with the CW kiddie crap. Common, there is killing and other bad things happening in this series....so why pander to children. You want to do that...make a Ewok SW series with lots of sing along and leave out the violence and ***ual innuendos. Rate it G and well will accept it for what it is. Find your balance Georgie or find something else to wreck. Leave SW alone.

Melek

[LordBane21]

I didi not mean SW had to be kiddie. ANd that good movies have to have profanity and ***, they dont. I am just saying in this day and age a lot of ppl want that. I didnt mean to insult. But GL is the father of star wars. He is not wrecking anything he is appealing to what will keep it alive. And frankly he can do what the hell he wants cause it is his. I think ppl are getting away from GL's SW and are going to Expaned Universe more and seeing how amazing it is and then they turn around and see CW and think "well Gl sucks now he cant do anything right" but we have been away from his version of SW (the Original) we forget what SW started out as and is going to be.

[Darth_DevilGuy]

I didi not mean SW had to be kiddie. ANd that good movies have to have profanity and ***, they dont. I am just saying in this day and age a lot of ppl want that. I didnt mean to insult. But GL is the father of star wars. He is not wrecking anything he is appealing to what will keep it alive. And frankly he can do what the hell he wants cause it is his. I think ppl are getting away from GL's SW and are going to Expaned Universe more and seeing how amazing it is and then they turn around and see CW and think "well Gl sucks now he cant do anything right" but we have been away from his version of SW (the Original) we forget what SW started out as and is going to be.

I like the EU because it's more like the OT than anything lucas has done since, granted there's bits I don't like and tend to ignore cough*yuzanvong*cough, but I find more compelling and universal stories in the EU works where the "cannon" has turned mostly to selling toys to five year old children.

I don't see anything wrong with little kids liking star wars, like I said I grew up watching it from the time I was 4, but I didn't like those first movies any less for the lack of jar jar binks or having kid vader get shoehorned into the story as Jesus.

Like I said, there's a difference between Kid friendly and childish, either Lucas got, lucky several times or he just got greedy.

[LordBane21]

I see excatly where each person comes from. I like EU more than anything cause ppl can do so much with it since it isnt cannon. its more interesting to see where SW will go. I just want ppl to give GL respect caue EU like an SW spin off wouldnt exsist without him. Sorry if i made anyone mad woth previouse comments.

[Melek Taus]

I am just saying in this day and age a lot of ppl want that.

Couldn't disagree more with you. I don't know anyone personally that is in that sort of mindset. I have alot of friends that agree with me about the decline of the SW movies. My son even agreed with me. He is 15. My daughter didn't want to go see CW or Ep II and III because TPM sucked so bad. She said...Jar Jar was too annoying and took away from the movie. Should have had more Darth Maul...i.e. a more mature storyline. She is now 17.

I compare SW to Tim Burton's Batman Movies. They started out good..but took a huge dive. Now, my son and I both thought Batman Begins and Dark Knight were the best ever...because of their seriousness/mature nature. Now...on a side note....my daughter hated them. She said they were too serious. I might concede that to her a bit, but I still enjoyed them alot.


He is not wrecking anything he is appealing to what will keep it alive. And frankly he can do what the hell he wants cause it is his.

Again I must disagree wth you....he is wrecking it IMOP. Also, the original idea came from Akira Kurosawa if I am not mistaken and it was based on Ninjas. GL took the idea and made it into a space epic. Fine....Same thing happened with "Seven Samurai"....i.e. "The Magnificent Seven" or "Yojimbo" even with "Fist Full of Dollars."


I think ppl are getting away from GL's SW and are going to Expaned Universe more and seeing how amazing it is and then they turn around and see CW and think "well Gl sucks now he cant do anything right" but we have been away from his version of SW (the Original) we forget what SW started out as and is going to be.


Some of the expanded universe I like...some I don't. Didn't care for how Jacen died or that storyline all that much anyway. I still read it. Just thought it could have been alot better. And....I do think GL sucks. He didn't use too..but it seems he is trying to please too many people and forgetting his base. You lose your base then what do you have? I'm not sure...but it doesn't seem like a good thing to do. Lot's of rock bands do something similar. They come out with this cool new sound...then their next or even in some cases next few cd's bite big time......LOL Since this topic is about SW...I won't go into how much I think Disturbed's new CD bites....LOLOL


All the best,
Melek

[annon]

at the end of the day, for me it all comes down to this:
when you take Star Wars on the hole (OT,PT,EU,etc) there is still more good than bad (even with Jar Jar and gay Hutts) and it's not over yet. GL is making a live action TV series, it could be really good. Heck, it could be real good, we'll see. I like were the Legacy comic series is going, and their are those out there that have considered quitting thier jobs so they can play more Force Unleashed:razz:
So until GL becomes one with the Force, we can't really judge the entire body of work and say it's more good or bad IMO;)

[LordBane21]

I see. I am making the mistake of saying what ppl think. i shouldnt. i dont know their minds or feeling. sorry for that. I did se CW cause it was star wars. and no i wasnt really happy with it perticular but since it was star wars and i am a fan i liked it. I am 21 yrs old. and like everything. well almost everything. lol. I do agree GL could do so much better. and IMHO i think its that way cause look at E.T and Land before time. Lucas did those movies also. and those were child movies. I think he reverts back. A part of me want a new director in SW series. but I am happy with what i have.