The "Next Gen" Saber... your thoughts?

[Novastar]

Curious as to what people think will be "*The* Saber" of... let's say... a year or two from now. As some example thoughts:

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* Brighter SINGLE LED or... multiple LEDs with more complex lenses/reflectors?

* Better voltage and current driving or... higher voltage requirements and amp draw as we move forward?

* Better blade diffusion and tips or... blade diffusion and tips remain fairly static and unchanged?

* More saber driving / sound sources or... one single "main" source for drivers and sound?

* Motors, "crystals", unique switches and special indicator LEDs or... a lot less "excess" and simpler designs?

* Longer, wider hilts or... hilt length and width remain fairly static and unchanged?
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I'm sure there are many more ways of looking at this kind of thing, but... wanted to see what people's imaginations would come up with--although... basing such imaginations in the REALITY of the state-of-the-art + not breaking laws of physics is nice when commenting... :)

[Hasid Lafre]

I think the blades, hilts, and sound options will remain the same for a while. But I feel by then the rebel leds will become more standard with the new PCB like its luxIII and V and k2 brethren.

Maybe we will get color k2s with ccfc which IIRC are rebel leds in a k2 emitter.

How knows maybe the multi led setups might make it out if there is enough demand for them. Hell I would love to see a twin luxIII or V setup.

But I do think since its pritty much been the same for our saber community for the past couple years not, Yes some new stuff has came out but have been completely made solid in the community. Some people use the new stuff but to the general Joe they would rather use a more standard.

But I think in 2 years time we shall see even more led options, anything to look forward to breaking that hyperdyne boundary.

I mean hell even parks has moved to led so if they are doing it finally then there's no telling what we shall see for the single led saber community

[strengthofrage]

There have been massive changes in the past year, I can't wait to see what another year brings :)

I think we will see more (hate to use this term) 'out-of-the-box' designs in the near future. More varied hilt lengths, different random options like Grayven and Armonfire have been doing (awsome!) and hopefully some more butter for our toast ;)

'Rebel Endor' and Parks going LED are two sure signs that people are feelin the LED saber community I think. I have a feeling that options are coming.

[jamesjeffh]

I think with the rebels being so small its only a matter of time before the triple rebel setup becomes a must have.And who knows MAYBE the efx boys wont let us down and might come out with a decent product that we could use instead of saying I only have this board untill this and that comes out.Maybe I wont be alone with the wider blade issue also.It wasnt that long ago when X-wing let the world know about nylon blades ( thanks ) so who knows maybe some different type of plastic that nobodys ever thought to look at for a blade or diffuser.

[xwingband]

I didn't invent the use of nylon. I just showed that it can work for us.

My two cents are that I will never use multiple cores until we've hit the top end of efficiency. We aren't near that so I don't see doing it for a few years maybe.

[Madcow]

I've been doing this for 8 years or so, and I've seen a ton of changes and advances.
I started by literaly modifying flashlights!
I expect to see things advance in quality (brighter &more efficient LEDs, and better batteries), and stuff is always getting smaller. This will keep opening options for the creative.

I expect to see things like the rebel endor become a standard so that people can work with flash on clash effects etc. (Combo effects of different LEDs) It's already doable with the CF - but not ideal yet.

Modules will be invented/added to help clean up wiring (but we'll still see mad spaghetti butcher jobs - I fear).

Everyone will expect all the features of a CF saber , WITH a crystal that lights up and can be seen, AND, have fisual clash effects etc. This will become "normal".

I expect to see goldsmithing and other art forms come to the front - I think our sabers are about to become more beatiful to the eye - and still functional.

* years ago it was hard to find someone who'd spend over $100 on a saber. Now it's easy to find someone willing to spend $1000.

What a hobby! I'm glad Im in the middle of it.

Cheers,
MC

[Vardarac]

I have what I hope is a brilliant idea in mind... I let it slip at some point on these forums already, but deleted the post concerning it. If you know what I'm talking about, please don't say anything... I really want to try it before I publish anything on it. All I can tell you is that it involves a lot of LEDs and banging my head against a wall for not thinking of it sooner. If it works, it will dramatically change the way blades appear.

[Darth Leximus]

color me interested Vard

[Malaki Skywalker]

Your secret is safe with me anyways ;)

[Hasid Lafre]

Your secret is safe with me anyways ;)

Till the right price appears :P

[Count Malik]

Hey lets all build a real lightsaber. LOL! :rolleyes: My thoughts on the subject are brighter LEDs and maybe smaller. And more CF!:mrgreen:

[sekrogue1985]

Hey lets all build a real lightsaber. LOL! :rolleyes: My thoughts on the subject are brighter LEDs and maybe smaller. And more CF!:mrgreen:

well that could probably idk lolness would happen...why not just start a mass thread and build a lightsaber using everybodies ideas. One from each person and whatever happens happens...

[Novastar]

...I'm sure there are many more ways of looking at this kind of thing, but... wanted to see what people's imaginations would come up with--although... basing such imaginations in the REALITY of the state-of-the-art + not breaking laws of physics is nice when commenting...

lol...

[Tom Starkiller]

Definalty brighter.

And definalty smaller, that's the way all electronic technologies go. I mean, look at the computer, they're tiny compared to the HUGE things that they used to be, yet they're a hell of a lot more complex. (And a British invension.)

Smaller boards will alow smaller hilts meaning more accurate replicas could be made.
Maybe a new blade material (Tube not film.)
If they get smaller, they'll be lighter.

[Angelus Lupus]

What I'd like to see vs what I think we will be using?
Hmm, well.. I think we'll still be using the LED setup we have now. Probably more people will go for multiple LEDs for flash/clash.
I forsee more people customising their sounds, what with CF and these new boards in development. I these cards end up sitting in different price ranges, then so much the better. More options is always good. As these boards evolve I'm sure we'll see improvements in power management as the LEDs we use change. Power suplies will also improve so we get longer run-times.
As foir the look of the sabers? More diversity is what I reckon. There will be people who want simple and elegant designs and those that want organic/bone/wood/rancor tooth sabers same as now. The only difference will be that as the number of experienced saber-smiths increases it will become easier and more affordable for the average Joe to get custom work done.

Yeah, but on the "I wish..." side of things: I want to discover a way to make a blade that does the extend/retract but is still strong. That way I could keep a saber with me for any opportunity without having to carry around a rigid 32-34" poly-c tube.

[Hasid Lafre]

I would definitely like to see something in the blade department as Iam not that great a handler with films and have had some bad luck with films when a simpler thing has been just dandy for me.

Who knows maybe the next advancement in the lighting tech wont be an led at all, probably some kinda super plasma bulb and we just use a colored filter roll in the blade.

[swear000]

Luxim has a nice plasma bulb. The problem is still power. Smaller components mean we could fit more power cells in.

[Darth_DevilGuy]

I think we'll begin to see several things, smaller sabers, and standardized rebel configurations, and greater variety in sound and driver options.

[LAN-ED-TUL]

i think we will see more advancements in the led side of things. breaking that lumen barriers we have now, and the voltage requirements for them. that type stuff.

i think sound will be the same for some time, led controllers, well, we know theres a couple guys here workin on that type stuff, so some advances there i think too.

blades, that might take a bit more time, if there is anything better than what we use now, that might be a ways off yet, but ya never know, right?

thats pretty much what and where i think we'll see the pushes forward.

[jamesjeffh]

I know one thing there are way too many differnt types of plasticsin the world for there only to be 2 that are applicable to what we are doing hopefully within a year somebody will get lucky and find some other material for blades other than polycarbonate and nylon I try to experiment myself but as anybody would agree it can expensive to just up and buy plastic tubes of different material just for kicks.

[sekrogue1985]

A rubber chicken. Stuff it with the guts of your choice and shove a tube down it's throat and boom we have ourselves a state of the art next gen saber.

[Hasid Lafre]

^ YEah ok.

What I would love to see is more of the obscure leds become more known. Like all you guys testing these different higher powered leds well post up some stuff more than oh this fried so I will have to wait till later, then later comes and they eather A: forgot about it or B: moved on and not finished there tests.

[Novastar]

In terms of LEDs and drivers... there IS a certain "point-of-no-return" regarding how applicable that driver can be if the LED tech "pumps up the volume"...

For example:

CF currently supports up to 1.5A.
The Seoul P7 requires at LEAST 2.8A for it to run decently/efficiently... and to get the "better" lumen count.

This means that future drivers *MAY* want to support/allow more current. But the real issue isn't that CF "can't" support >1.5A... it's the HEAT PRODUCED that makes it unsafe.

But anyhow... as other examples: we all know the MR boards will *NOT* suffice for >0.9A... and let's just leave those older idiotic Hasbro boards out shall we...? :) Corbin's v1 spits out a PWM'ed 1A... and I *BELIEVE* his new board essentially spits out the same(?) although I may be wrong...

So...

IF LEDs tend to go in the direction of "wanting more/higher amperage"
THEN drivers will need to be able to support/handle more heat.

AKA... they may need to be heatsunk (heatsinked??) just like their LED counterparts! Interesting.

[Eandori]

To state what I think will happen, first I should state my assumptions about the movment of technology.

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1. We have nearly always, and will most likely continue to use lighting elements and optics designed for the flashlight industry.
2. Technology Innovation happens, then secondary producers jump into the mix and add competition. Which pushes up the quality of each product and drives down the cost. Luxeon-style LED technology is out there and it's right now being refined and added to, so we should expect it to continue to get better and cheaper.
3. Optically speaking, Multi-lightsource drivers will never be an equally viable option compared to properly built single-color drivers. If you add more light sources then you screw up the alignment with the optic lenses. If you add more P/N diode junctions inside the clear LED bulb then you are effectively using less area then you COULD HAVE used with a single color using all that space. The only way around this is if a single LED could yeild different colors based on the signal you send to it. As in, each P/N silicon junction could vary light frequency based on input current frequency.
4. A specific amount of photons contains so much energy. A battery can output so much energy. Heat... is energy wasted. As in... not being used to create light. Our basis to compare how much more efficient our lights can be is how much heat they put out.
5. Our current sabers are not limited by power source issues, they are limited by light source issues. We can easily make batteries that output up to 100watts for our sabers if they need it. But current lighting technology cannot use more then 3-15watts of input power. So obviously, the weakest link will have to improve before we get brighter.
6. There are already many areas where our driver technology and component size/reliability can improve. Switch size, switch reliability, more recessed mounting options, advanced light emission optics, more thermally conductive cooling systems, volume control, brightness control, etc.
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So... based on that.

- I think single light source sabers will continue to outperform multi-lightsource sabers. LED's give the best light/power ratios known so far and they are still pretty new in development. So obviously I think they will continue to improve, but they will be driven by the flashlight and specialty lighting markets.
- I think the lightsaber community will continue to discover better components as they become available or as we simply happen across them.
- I think that LED strips inside a saber will continue to be the brightest options, because those LED's will improve too. Yet they will continue to suffer the downside of having electronics in the blade you smash around.
- I think we will start to see purple luxeon style LED's. I don't have much hope for them being bright for some time though.
- Since white is driven by a much bigger market, we MAY see far more lumens of white before those companies get around to producing single wavelength versions.
- Driver systems will continue to come out which are more advanced, easier to use, and more failsafe.
- Custom machined hilt pieces will eventually become the most expensive parts on your saber.

I have had a very next generation lightsaber design in the works for some time now. I keep getting close to locking down the design then some other idea occurs or technology changes somehow and i have to go back and re-design some section. Hopefully eventually I'll be able to lock down the design. Even when I do though, i doubt I'll have the time to create it myself. I might just give the idea away to somebody else to build.

[Nightwing]

How about a tightly wound loop of plasma, held together by a magnetic field and projected through some type of focusing crystal?

Hmm? No? Well then...

Why not a new "lenticular" type of blade film? Something like those lenticular images that are different depending on which angle you view them at. My thinking is that the film could be made in such a way that the bright light would mostly pass straight through the apparent "center" of the blade, while the light to the "sides" of the blade would be filtered. If using a near-white LED, that should give the appearance of a white-cored blade.
Of course, creating anything lenticular is extremely difficult, but perhaps if we're not actually trying to make images behind the blade, then maybe it's possible?

[swear000]

I like the plasma idea better.

[vadeblade]

An OLED sheet/film large enough to fit inside 1"OD thick walled blade.

Here is a video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZfrFX36Hkc&eurl=http://www.treehugger.com/files/2007/03/ge_accelerates.php
That aint EL.

Edit: and a suitably small driver for the OLED sheet/film.

[Hasid Lafre]

Dosent look to be very bright at all. IMO the barrior we need to brake is the hyperdyne.

Once we hit that theres no limit to what can stop us.

[vadeblade]

Dosent look to be very bright at all.

here is a picture of a Organic LED provided by Konica Minolta:
http://i.treehugger.com/files/th_images/oled.jpg

That is 1000 cd/m2 - equivelant to a high priced HDTV screen brightness. now imagine a blade evenly lit like that. Today's technolgy has it at 64 lm/watt. Maybe in a few years we will have 80-100 lm/watt and the ability to make it like Corbin film.

[Hasid Lafre]

Yeah but will that work with driver boards? will it have an "extend/retract" effect? Can it do everything we can do now but make it better?

I seen in the videos they flex it and move it around but when they punched a hole in it with the puncher that tells me that I don't think it can handle flexing around a telly pole.

I still think the future of led sabers is going to be a single point and an "empty" blade.

[Malaki Skywalker]

IMO I think Hyperblades are next gen, they are the most realistic, to some they may be expensive, but its like computers, a top spec PC isn't going to come cheap. Now I'm probably going to get bashed about this, I am still a hardcore Lux fan, I love the CF to bits but I also like the look of the Hyperblades, they are the most realistic looking and the brightest out there.

Thats my 2 cents.

[Hasid Lafre]

But they are not the strongest decently priced and I for one dont like the sounds and the runtine is terrable.

The lux is in the middle ground of it all and to me thats more important to me.

Talk to erv, he got a CF to work for led strings, so you can make your only led array or reuse a couple mr strips, a reworked CF and you got something IMO that is better cause it was much cheaper.

[Eandori]

Hyperblades ARE the brightest things out there right now... my testing (with videos posted on YouTube) absolutely concluded that. And the scrolling effect was very cool as well. But if you put components in the blade it's probably heavier, certainly more expensive if broken, most likely less durable, etc.

No need to go into all that here, but if you are ok with the + and - of Hyperblades, then yeah go down that path. If you prefer luxeon style for their benefits (lighter, cheaper, more durable, removable blade etc.) then you are the other camp.

Personally, In my mind I divide them into two implementations. Hilt-based electronics, and blade based electronics. Each of them will advance down their own path and each has it's advantages and limitations. Anybody who says that one method wins all catagories is being foolish. Each type has it's advantages and shortfalls.

Traditional-style LED's have been out for decades. Luxeon style are pretty recent. Give luxeon style 10 more years and then we will see how the two types stack up against each other.

[Hasid Lafre]

Exactly!

But seeing as how the hyperblades have been around for a few I still dont see it as the future of lightsabers.

Ok look we got the blade stuff I would say 75% figured out for the best blades, we got drivers and boards that can do almost anything, the only thing holding us back is power supplys in a small package but runtimes or space can run out pritty quick and the things to run them. Yeah Iam sure we could take a couple 1A pucks and a sound board and run 2 circuts like most have been doing for a while now, Then when a board comes out that can power these 2a+ leds we will take the step forward abit.

In order to go forward you need to step back a bit

[Nightwing]

How about a tightly wound loop of plasma, held together by a magnetic field and projected through a focusing crystal?

Hmm? No? Okay then...

What about a new type of blade film that would be designed to let more or less light through at different angles? That way the white core of the blade would be clearly visible, but the sides would be filtered. It would work in a similar fashion to lenticular images, but would probably be structured like a spoked wheel, with the "spokes" being colored filters.



Yeah but will that work with driver boards? will it have an "extend/retract" effect? Can it do everything we can do now but make it better?Actually, yeah. OLEDs can actually self-organize, so you could theoretically spray them out of a can onto any surface, and, with the right hook-ups, use that surface as an HDTV.
You'd probably need a new type of driver board, but hey, it'd be worth it, right?
With that kind of tech, we could do a lot more than just the extend/retract. Heck, we could watch the Star Wars films on the blade while we're fighting.

[vadeblade]

Yeah but will that work with driver boards? I seen in the videos they flex it and move it around but when they punched a hole in it with the puncher that tells me that I don't think it can handle flexing around a telly pole.

Hasid, you missed the point of that demo. They punched a hole then cut with scissors to show us how much Abuse the film will take and it will still stay lit. I thought that is what we want, a blade that we can hit and smash and shoot at and no matter how battered it will still stay lit.


In order to go forward you need to step back a bit

This thread is about the future. If someone builds a film large enough to make a blade out of, I am sure someone will also make a driver for it. Look at the Luxeons... Someone build a 5 watt LED and low and behold a puck surfaced to power it shortly afterwards.



Actually, yeah. OLEDs can actually self-organize, so you could theoretically spray them out of a can onto any surface, and, with the right hook-ups, use that surface as an HDTV.
You'd probably need a new type of driver board, but hey, it'd be worth it, right?
With that kind of tech, we could do a lot more than just the extend/retract. Heck, we could watch the Star Wars films on the blade while we're fighting.

THAT is the forward thinking we need. Imagine swinging your RGB enabled OLED blade and the after image it leaves behind is an actual PHOTO or movie complete with sound. WOOHOO!!! Extend/retract would be RETRO.

[FenderBender]

I still think that the the blade tech is where the future will lie. I think we do a good job with what we have, but I for one think that too much enphasis is placed on LED power and brightness and not enough on how much of that brightness is wasted. lux III or V could blind you if you look directly at it, I think with better diffusers/films whatever we could acheive what we want without heatsinked boards and 10watt LED's and whatever.

On a side note I do think that the new OLED's are QUITE promising.

[Hasid Lafre]

Yes it can blind you but then we are also trying to trap the light into the blade.

How much light are we actually losing thru the polyC? Maybe a more transparency type blade tube?

Yeah its clear but not that clear ya know? So I think with a different type of polyC tubing with more light transferability will help out alot!

[jamesjeffh]

http://luminitco.com/
Would this be of any help to anybody? If I knew more about the science of it I'd chime in.

[Malaki Skywalker]

Whoa... you may have found an answer to modifying the tri rebel optics, put a piece of that over the optic make shave off 20* :cool: And the fillm may be worth sampling!

Great find jamesjeffh! :razz:

EDIT: I have contacted the company for a free sample, this maybe the diffuser we have been looking for :?

Fingers Crossed! :)

Ah poop, looks like they do not do anything bigger then 24" :(

[Eandori]

I still think that the the blade tech is where the future will lie. I think we do a good job with what we have, but I for one think that too much enphasis is placed on LED power and brightness and not enough on how much of that brightness is wasted. lux III or V could blind you if you look directly at it, I think with better diffusers/films whatever we could acheive what we want without heatsinked boards and 10watt LED's and whatever.This statement makes me believe you have misunderstood the nature of light energy or energy density. The light coming right from your LED is brighter because it's the same amount of light but in a smaller area. 150 lumens over a 2 foot square surface is dim. 150 lumens from a single LED is bright as heck.

Heat energy is the same. It's the relationship between Pressure, Volume and Tempterature. (PV= nRT where "n" and "R" are constants). As volume goes down, temperature goes up. That's why compressing gas makes it hot. As volume goes down, temperature goes down. That's why expanding gas like out of CO2 cartridge gets very cold. Same amount of heat energy, but varying size.

Current luxeon blades and lenses are actually pretty good at re-directing the light from an LED. Sure optics can get better, but they are already pretty good.


Whoa... you may have found an answer to modifying the tri rebel optics, put a piece of that over the optic make shave off 20* And the fillm may be worth sampling!
That find is very cool for sure :) but it might not fix our issue. The example they give on the website is a very narrow beam of light being dispersed into a wide beam. What we have is the opposite need. Very wide angle light source, that needs to be re-directed to narrow beam. (180 degree down to 5 degree...)

So... from what I can see that's not a fix for us YET.