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xwingband
03-02-2006, 08:56 PM
Okies, our goal is to make a through description of EL and LED so that saber new comers and novices will have a description that can guide them to what is best for their needs. We need to be concise and unbiased in our evaluation. This will eventually make it's way to making a "build your saber type" of program that will help people through getting all their parts in the store.

I will post a first draft in this post. The final and working drafts will come from here also.

Here's the description:
<hr noshade size="1">
Every lighted saber is made up of two main parts; The blade and the hilt. There are two main styles of sabers available from here. These two lighting methods are EL and LED. The following briefly describes the two in order to help you decide which way to go.

<u>EL (Electroluminescence)</u>

EL is a wire that glows when an electric current is applied. The color is determined by the color of wire inside the blade. You have probably encountered EL before as the backlight of a watch.

EL saber blades use up to 17 feet of wire inside a 3/4" Polycarbonate blade. The wire itself is disguised by a diffuser of HD polyethylene tubing. This opaque tubing disguises the wire, yet allows light to filter through.

EL's advantages are its even color and easy of color changing. All it takes is switching a blade to change the color. Some colors, however, are fairly dull compared to others. EL's brightness is affected by the voltage and can be safely run at 9-18V.

<u>LEDs (Light Emitting Diodes)</u>

In The Custom Saber Shop, Luxeon LEDs are used. They are the bigger brother of the LEDs in keychain lights. LEDs in sabers are basically powerful flashlights. The color is determined by the LED in the hilt. A Polycarbonate blade is used to contain the light. In LEDs a diffuser and optics are also used to direct the light up the tube.

LEDs are brighter than the brightest EL. The downside is that the color is not even (the light will fade the longer the blade, yet the base will be extremely bright). This also gives the white core and colored aura that is more accurate to the movie sabers as opposed to EL's solid color.

Changing colors is not as easy but there are two options: The Modular Hilt system using a quick change kit, and colored discs.
<ul> The quick change works by disconnecting the LED and replacing it with another colored one. The quick change's disadvantage is that is requires unscrewing the blade holder and unplugging the LED. The color discs work by using a white LED. Changing colors is achieved by removing the blade and placing the filter over the LED and optics. The disadvantage is that a filtered LED will always be less bright than the pure LED of that color.[/list]

<u>Summary</u>

EL is more of a solid tone along the length, while LED fades toward the tip and has a flare at the base. LED is brighter even at its dimmest spot compared to EL. If you want the ability to change colors with different blades EL has an edge.


<hr noshade size="1">

All comments are welcome. Catch my mistakes, suggest additions/subtractions, etc... I want this to be as good as it can be in helping people choose and make Tim more money.[:D]


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Nightwing
03-02-2006, 09:34 PM
I would add that because of the LED's brightness, it looks more like a real energy blade.

EL, on the other hand, shows color more than overall brightness.

Strydur
03-02-2006, 09:41 PM
I wouldnt say EL makes a heavier blade since a LED blade has a 1" blade it has more material which is what weighs the most..they are pretty much the same.

I would point out that EL is generally 3/4" blade and LED is generally 1"

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">The color discs work by using a white LED (white light is made up of all colors) and filtering out all except the one you want. So changing colors is achieved by removing the blade and placing the filter over the LED and optics.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

I would leave out the bold portion..we want this to be as basic as possible to get the main point across.

List the available main colors for each ..but still point out that led can use the filters also.

Tim
The Custom Saber Shop

james3
03-02-2006, 10:17 PM
Pretty cool. I have been thinking that it might not be a bad idea to explain that EL may be a better choice if the saber is going to be for kids. I know the easy answer for the led is lock the blade down with a regular screw but I also know my 6 year old boy has no fear of taking a screwdriver to his toys to change the batteries. I know, I'm paranoid, and my wife says I worry to much about liabilities and stuff but I thought I would throw it out there. If I'm intruding just tell me to butt out[:)]

xwingband
03-02-2006, 10:17 PM
Keep them coming... I'll update in the morning. You always forget something...

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Strydur
03-03-2006, 02:03 AM
I dont think our purpose here is to scare people away from EL..

I have sold hundreds of blades and have not had a single customer have one stop working. I have made both EL and LED and I dont think there is a durability issue between the two styles.

Tim
The Custom Saber Shop

LAN-ED-TUL
03-03-2006, 03:46 AM
arent we doin pros ans cons of each. i know el has a good place but since i got into the led stuff, i probably wont be doin much el stuff anymore. led is just way too cool.

You dont know the POWER, of the dark side...

GFORCE13
03-03-2006, 05:10 AM
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> arent we doin pros ans cons of each. i know el has a good place but since i got into the led stuff, i probably wont be doin much el stuff anymore. led is just way too cool.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">Yes I have to agree with this, my first 2 blades were El I still have them and play with them sometimes but I prefer my white Led with full electronics, it does go through batteries a lot quicker but the brightness and coolness factor out weighs it all.[8D]

May the Force
Be with You

Marc E.

Nightwing
03-03-2006, 08:49 AM
We're gonna need some good pictures to go along with the text. Text can only go so far before it's too much for the reader to take in.

Maybe if someone could take pictures of the LED, LED w/color disk (in the same saber if possible) and the brightest and darkest of the EL.

xwingband
03-03-2006, 09:02 AM
Yup, pictures are a must but if text was the only option it must convey a lot.

I made some changes. I'm really debating leaving out duelability issues all together since Tim doesn't think weight or durability is much of an issue.

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Nightwing
03-03-2006, 09:10 AM
Do we really need so much technical info? Should that be in the tutorials or something?

I'm just saying that it seems like a little TMI for someone who's not an electronics expert.


You could shorten it down basically just telling people what the end effect of it is when it's done.

For instance:
Some colors aren't extremely bright though because they must have more treatments to achieve the correct color and are therefore dull compared to other EL colors.

Could be shortened to:
Some colors are brighter, while other EL colors are more dull.

xwingband
03-03-2006, 09:15 AM
I understand that but I don't want to leave out too much. If it's not explained a bit I'm afraid people will wonder why that these two colors of wire are so different in brightness. Without any explaination a person expects to get two different colors and they be exactly the same except a different color. It's like a person buying an LCD monitor to replace a CRT and not changing the settings on their computer. It will look like crap and without knowing why they'll come complaining.

It's a lot easier to remove than add stuff also.

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supertrogdor
03-03-2006, 09:33 AM
Do you want to mention cost differences at all? with the quick change kit your cost differences amount to another LED, heatsink setup or the color disks, EL will run quite a bit more as you have to construct another blad with more el wire, poly E tube and so on and so on, not to discourage one way or the other, but it might be something you want to consider, as it is an informative guide

xwingband
03-03-2006, 09:40 AM
I haven't seen to many decide based on cost so I never figured that to be much of an issue. I've always seen it as a look issue. It can be added though.

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Strydur
03-03-2006, 01:22 PM
It needs to be a somewhat short description of the 2 choices. It doesnt matter which we prefer, what matters is that the novice can read the description and gather just enough info to undertsand the main differences between the 2 but not be more confuzed than before they read it.

Tim
The Custom Saber Shop

xwingband
03-03-2006, 01:47 PM
Made shorter and sweeter, hopefully ( [xx(] ).

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Nightwing
03-03-2006, 01:52 PM
I think it's great, it's just that the EL description is still a little too techy. I think you can cut out the parts in red:

EL is a wire that glows <font color="red">by using special coatings that </font id="red"> when a current is applied <font color="red">makes it glow</font id="red">. The color is determined by <font color="red">the chemical process used to treat</font id="red"> the wire [itself]. You have probably encountered it before as perhaps the backlight of a watch.

xwingband
03-03-2006, 01:58 PM
Yeah, the first is wordy... the second I changed but basically kept. I also added a sentence to make the point that one EL blade or one LED can't do all the colors. Sometimes people think it's the electronics and I want to avoid that thought.

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Strydur
03-04-2006, 01:23 PM
before you get to the main description of the 2 we should have a statement like this.

Every lighted saber is made up of two main parts, The blade and the hilt. There are two main styles of sabers made using parts from here. The following briefly describes the two in order to help you decide which way to go.


Now in the EL section make sure it clearly states that the color is set by the blade and in the LED section that the color is set by the hilt.

Tim
The Custom Saber Shop

xwingband
03-04-2006, 01:51 PM
Changed.

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Strydur
03-04-2006, 02:02 PM
A few changes to think about.

The color is determined by the blade and wire you use.
The color is determined by the color of wire inside the blade.

In Sabers up to 17 feet of wire is used to get a 3/4" blade.
EL saber blades are built using up to 17 feet of wire housed in a 3/4" Polycarbonate tube.

EL however is affected by voltage and more batteries can be added to increase the brightness.
EL brightness is affected by the voltage used to power the inverter. The inverters sold here can safely be powered by 9-18 volts.


Tim
The Custom Saber Shop

xwingband
03-04-2006, 02:18 PM
Changed again. Now I remember why I'm not an english major.[xx(]

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Do-Clo
03-04-2006, 03:59 PM
xwingband, keep up the good work. When people complain about my grammer or spelling I quickly point out that none of my degrees major in english, in fact I am not even qualified to be an english private. lol


Do-Clo
Don't make me destroy you...

Nightwing
03-04-2006, 04:07 PM
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by xwingband

Now I remember why I'm not an english major.[xx(]<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">Ha! That's exactly what I'm aiming for!

bushidobaggins
03-10-2006, 01:09 PM
Also, you might mention that for the most part, the EL and LED kits and parts aren't interchangeable. It was something that I was a bit confused on before i built one. Such as invertors and blades, and why the part in each kit is exactly what you need to build that saber.

desertscorpion
03-11-2006, 11:58 AM
I'd have to back up Xwing on a lot of what is considered overly technical. In my experience, there are a lot of people out there who won't even consider an MR saber because of price and because "they're just not that into it," much less look into something like these. The guys that stumble on to this site are probably sharp, willing to scrape up the cash, more "into it," and, from the posts even a little more tech savvy. And, from what I can tell, even the guys who are willing to admit that they're not that tech savvy are still hungry for the details and willing to learn. I thought your explanation was pretty stinkin' good. But, then, it's not my store. Just my opinion.

Nightwing
03-14-2006, 06:10 PM
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by desertscorpion

I'd have to back up Xwing on a lot of what is considered overly technical. In my experience, there are a lot of people out there who won't even consider an MR saber because of price and because "they're just not that into it," much less look into something like these. The guys that stumble on to this site are probably sharp, willing to scrape up the cash, more "into it," and, from the posts even a little more tech savvy. And, from what I can tell, even the guys who are willing to admit that they're not that tech savvy are still hungry for the details and willing to learn. I thought your explanation was pretty stinkin' good. But, then, it's not my store. Just my opinion.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">Yeah, you're right on a lot of points, but I still think it's a bit much to delve into things like the details of how EL wire is treated with chemicals. It has virtually nothing to do with how the saber works. All you need to know is what the wire actually does, not its backrgound and history.


Anyway, I was thinking, should there even be any mention of "movies"? Isn't that pushing some legal limits or something?

xwingband
03-14-2006, 07:21 PM
I don't think mentioning the "movies" is pushing any limits as long as we aren't associating ourselves with Lucas and saying were official lightsaber makers or anything. You can make props all you want just don't say their official.[;)]

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GFORCE13
03-14-2006, 11:55 PM
Good Idea but no matter what anybody says I think you are on the right Track and doing a great Job, since I know this isn't an easy task.

May the Force
Be with You

Marc E.

Nightwing
03-20-2006, 10:21 AM
I don't think I quite like the summary:

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by xwingband

EL is more of a solid tone along the length, while LED fades toward the tip and has a flare at the base. If you want the ability to change colors with different blades EL has an edge.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

It doesn't say at all that LED is brighter. It just lists the cons of LED (uneven light), and the pros of EL (even glow and easy color-switching).
I realize that you addressed the brightness issue earlier in the descriptions, but some people are just gonna skip to the end.

I'd put it this way:
EL has more of a solid tone along the length of the blade and makes it easy to switch colors, but isn't nearly as bright.

LED is much brighter and accurate to the movie sabers, but has an uneven light and isn't as easy to switch colors.



Lastly, I noticed a lot of grammatical errors in the descriptions (being a future literature major and all [;)]). If you want, I can go over the whole text and try to fix it for you. [:D]
It'd make it more readable, and would bring honor and glory to the Strydur Empire.
*Kneels*

xwingband
03-20-2006, 10:27 AM
Show me the grammatical errors. I could look at it all day and not be able to tell where they are.[xx(]

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Nightwing
03-20-2006, 12:10 PM
Okay, <font color="red">red </font id="red"> signifies things that need to be changed, along with descriptions. <font color="blue">Blue </font id="blue"> signifies parts of sentences that need to be re-worded a bit. <font color="green">Green </font id="green"> is stuff I added to make it sound better.

Every lighted saber is made up of two main parts<font color="red">,(it should be a colon)</font id="red"> The blade and the hilt. There are two main styles of sabers <font color="blue">made using parts from here</font id="blue">.

<u>EL (Electroluminescence)</u>

EL is a wire that glows when a<font color="green">[n electric]</font id="green"> current is applied. The color is determined by the color of wire inside the blade. You have probably encountered it before <font color="blue">as perhaps </font id="blue"> the backlight of a watch.

EL saber blades use up to 17 feet of wire inside a 3/4" Polycarbonate blade. The wire itself is disguised by a diffuser of HD polyethylene tubing. This opaque tubing disguises the wire<font color="green">[,]</font id="green"> yet allows light to filter through.

EL's advantages are <font color="red">it's (no apostrophe)</font id="red"> even color and easy of color changing. All it takes is switching a blade to change the color. Some colors<font color="green">[,]</font id="green"> however<font color="green">[,]</font id="green"> are fairly dull compared to others. EL's brightness is affected by the voltage and can be safely run at 9-18V.

<u>LEDs (Light Emitting Diodes)</u>

In The Custom Saber Shop<font color="green">[,]</font id="green"> Luxeon LEDs are used. They are the bigger brother of the LEDs <font color="blue">you may have as I'd change it to simply "LEDs in keychain lights"</font id="blue"> keychain lights.

LEDs are much brighter than the brightest EL. The downside is that the color is not even <font color="blue">(the light will fade the longer the blade and flare at the base) I'd change this to "There is a bright flare at the base, and the longer the blade, the more the light will fade towards the tip"</font id="blue">. This also gives the white core and colored aura that is more accurate to the movie sabers <font color="red">colored aura (I'd just take this part out)</font id="red"> as opposed to EL's solid color.

Changing colors is not as easy<font color="green">[,]</font id="green"> but <font color="blue">there are two options: The Modular Hilt system using a quick change kit, and colored discs. I'd make this more like a list. You might use numbers to signify the difference between the two.</font id="blue">

xwingband
03-20-2006, 12:42 PM
Yeah, now that I see those it makes me go D'OH! I have class in a bit so changes will come later, and Tim will have to change the store's entry.[:D]

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xwingband
03-20-2006, 10:33 PM
Woo... more changes because my grammar suxs.[:D] I made some other changes too.

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Nightwing
03-20-2006, 11:08 PM
Very very nice!

I looked it all over, and only found one error:
...bigger brother of the LEDs keychain lights...

There should be an "in" in-between "LEDs" and "keychain".


Good job, though!

curtainguy
03-28-2006, 05:17 PM
hey strydur, any chance you could carry the RGB led's with the three wheels to change the color?

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xwingband
03-28-2006, 06:37 PM
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Nightwing

Very very nice!

I looked it all over, and only found one error:
...bigger brother of the LEDs keychain lights...

There should be an "in" in-between "LEDs" and "keychain".


Good job, though!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Oops...[:I] Took too much in the edit. LOL

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xwingband
03-28-2006, 06:41 PM
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by curtainguy
hey strydur, any chance you could carry the RGB led's with the three wheels to change the color?

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Psst... wrong thread. You want the "store wish list" thread. Call them more than wheels too. They're potentiometers, or pots for short.[:)]

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Ryma Mara
11-22-2006, 08:45 AM
I thought in the movies they just shoved a colored dowel in the hilt and used a conputer effects in later...atleast thats the way they did in 4,5,6.

My specal ed tapes tell me so.

987654321a
11-22-2006, 10:52 AM
they first tried reflective film on the blades but that didnt work out too well because once you move it out of the lighting area it would shine anymore until they discovered rotoscoping.

xwingband
11-22-2006, 11:42 AM
They used a triangular reflective rod. A motor in the hilt caused it to spin which gives the familiar flicker. It wasn't to great on film when trying to get other colors and they bent in dueling.

They actually PAINTED the sabers in each frame. They didn't have 'puters then. They couldn't tell photoshop to do it for them. :wink: That's why the things nightwing pointed out in the color thread happened. It wasn't too precise.

james3
11-22-2006, 11:42 AM
sheeesh!