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View Full Version : New sound card testing!!!



DARTH KALEL
05-10-2008, 04:43 PM
Hey guy's I will be testing my new sound board tomorrow, I haven't really posted much about it, but it's a customizable sound card comparable to Erv's and Ultra's. It won't be as expanded as Erv's but it will be able to adjust between 700mah to 2000mah, and will be capable of running the higher wattage stuff like the multi rebels, my builder says it should be able to run up to 24v without any probs and 30v max. I don't have a ton of info as of yet, but it's been in the process for awhile. The builder is an Electrical and sound engineer for Lockheed Martin, and has guaranteed the product for me. There are 3 size and config setup we are still playing around with, but tomorrow that's what i'm going to be doing. Seeing which is easier for the NOOOOB to install and seeing if a mounted clash sensor is worth the trouble. We made the solder points all pinholes to make it easy instead of the pads, a request from Er Dan Gill. We are also going to be playing around with hard mounts with quick connects for ease of use as well. This will depend on price mainly. I want to keep the cost to the sabersmith under 100.00 shipped. As of right now the boards would be 89.00 shipped. If everything goes good tomorrow and works properly, which I don't see a prob as we have tested them in blasters before, as was original design, we will be ready to make a small run of 25 boards that will be sold as prototypes and will be very cheap, mainly covering shipping and packaging. 3 day air for 35.00. i'm only going to let these first ones go to experienced saber builders as I need feedback from someone who has used Erv's or ultras board for comparrisons. The memory card will not be removable but will have a USB plug to customize. If you are interested please PM me. I will be sending a few for free to some great sabersmiths as a gift for their help and info in other fields and you will recieve your PM's shortly, Like I said i'm going to do the enitial setup and test tomorrow if it makes me smile i will have them ready to send asap. Hope this news brings a smile to your faces as it has to mine.

Count Malik
05-11-2008, 10:23 AM
Wow! can't what to see/hear it! Nice job!:D

Onli-Won Kanomi
05-11-2008, 12:32 PM
Wow this is great news, :-) and especially that it will support "higher wattage stuff like the multi rebels"...this sounds [pun intended] like it could be just the perfect solution for whenever the Endor optics come and Strydur offers the custom-colour Endors he talked about a couple months ago [two reds + green = BRIGHT orange here I come! I hope soon...].

Very BEST of Luck with your testing!

DARTH KALEL
05-11-2008, 03:35 PM
well, will need a higher rated speaker lol.

TD-2272
05-11-2008, 04:08 PM
well, will need a higher rated speaker lol.


I like loud oh yeah!!

Novastar
05-11-2008, 08:46 PM
I can vouch for the speakers sold at TCSS being pretty darn good in terms of their dynamic range.

Are there better ones out there? Sure... just as with all things--technology increases as the days pass. Question is, at what cost, what size, what power requirements, etc.

But awesome, a driver that supports 2A sounds fun!

DARTH KALEL
05-11-2008, 08:47 PM
yeah i'm playing with a 3 watt and a 5 watt to see what works best, I can get both in the right size so just seeing which one sounds better.

DARTH KALEL
05-13-2008, 12:25 PM
Ok so i'm extremely happy with the results so far. the ease of use is incredible, more than I had originally dreamed. Everything will be controlled and updated over the computer. No removable memory card but it's got a usb plug that can be mounted like a switch on saber or stuffed inside. All future updates will be done online. right now he got it to run up to 3000 mah and we tested it using a P7 all I can say is wow. the ramp up timed feature is really cool being able to controll the speed of the ramp up and the shimmer effect. i'm running a 8AA setup. The momentary switches controll the sound banks as well as the blaster and force effects. I'm actually using a heat vision sound font and it's pretty amazing. To load sound fonts the included program will convert and transfer just by click and drag, like I said ease of use is incredible. Size of the board will be .86 wide x .21 tall x 2.37 long. It's a little longer than some of the others but the clash sensor is hard mounted due to builder wanting them all to function the same as far as sensitivity. I will have some pics up by this weekend and hopfully if my CF comes in tomorrow I will have something to compare with. If you have any detail questions give me a PM, those that showed interest in testing and feedback I have 20 to send out, about half are gone , of course Tim will get one and a few sabersmiths as well, but if you have interest just PM me, i'm open to anybody as long as you do what I require. Thanks guys and can't wait to see these in some sabers. The latest feature i'm trying for before launch is being able to drive 2 main LED's and sound for 2 sabers I.E double sabers with single driver, and sound. but two speakers. I'm just working on machining a coupler with contact leads to allow this to happen, but that is what my prototype is.

TD-2272
05-13-2008, 02:04 PM
Ok so i'm extremely happy with the results so far. the ease of use is incredible, more than I had originally dreamed. Everything will be controlled and updated over the computer. No removable memory card but it's got a usb plug that can be mounted like a switch on saber or stuffed inside. All future updates will be done online. right now he got it to run up to 3000 mah and we tested it using a P7 all I can say is wow. the ramp up timed feature is really cool being able to controll the speed of the ramp up and the shimmer effect. i'm running a 8AA setup. The momentary switches controll the sound banks as well as the blaster and force effects. I'm actually using a heat vision sound font and it's pretty amazing. To load sound fonts the included program will convert and transfer just by click and drag, like I said ease of use is incredible. Size of the board will be .86 wide x .21 tall x 2.37 long. It's a little longer than some of the others but the clash sensor is hard mounted due to builder wanting them all to function the same as far as sensitivity. I will have some pics up by this weekend and hopfully if my CF comes in tomorrow I will have something to compare with. If you have any detail questions give me a PM, those that showed interest in testing and feedback I have 20 to send out, about half are gone , of course Tim will get one and a few sabersmiths as well, but if you have interest just PM me, i'm open to anybody as long as you do what I require. Thanks guys and can't wait to see these in some sabers. The latest feature i'm trying for before launch is being able to drive 2 main LED's and sound for 2 sabers I.E double sabers with single driver, and sound. but two speakers. I'm just working on machining a coupler with contact leads to allow this to happen, but that is what my prototype is.

All praise the "House of EL" dude I have nothing but man love for you hahahaha, but seriously congrats big time cant wait to get one

Malaki Skywalker
05-13-2008, 02:11 PM
Congrats! Any chance of a sneek peek video? :p

Draconis Magnus
05-13-2008, 02:12 PM
WOW... is there like a mailing list you guys going to have for announcements? I'd like to be on it for this soundboard. :)

DARTH KALEL
05-13-2008, 02:56 PM
I don't have a vid as of yet, but will shortly, might have to go get a new camera. I'm also waiting to compare it with some others, I have a v1 ultra and a CF v2.5 on the way. I'm not really trying to compete with these two as they are mythical beasts lol, but I'm trying to get something to people that's good and inexpensive, I think it's going to be more on par with ultra being Erv is a genius but it will have a few features the ultra will not. hopefully this will be a mid grade option, but with the online update ability who really knows, I've already had about 15 revisions so by time all said and done, it might be on par with the unicorn. I'm not the genius behind the design just the force making it happen and adding what I want and what I think all you guys are looking for. I don't have a mailing list as of yet but I will post on here and will be talking to TIM pretty regularly from this point on.

vadeblade
05-15-2008, 08:20 AM
Hi,
will this be the final dimensions of the production model?
.86" wide x .21" tall x 2.37" long

I just got most of my MHS parts last night and need to do a internals layout before I start cutting and drilling. A piece of cardboard will represent your sound card :)

to help with my switch layout, can you give us a simple wiring diagram of your board? i.e. ignition, aux, kill switch, speaker, luxeon, decorative led, etc.

thank you,
V.

Edit: I will also have a tactile feedback motor in the hilt. I'll probably have questions on how to wire that too.

Darth Vane
05-15-2008, 08:42 AM
how much will you be selling these for?

savyas
05-15-2008, 08:53 AM
he said he was trying to keep it under $100 shipped in the first post in this thread.

xl97
05-15-2008, 09:01 AM
I hope the PRICE is a concern... adding in nice features and extra tis or that is great.. but NOT at the expense/cost of the board (IMHO at least)

I dont recall form the original thread read.. is this JUST a sound board..or will this also drive the LED as well?

computer programmable is a plus.. usb is easy to work with.

maybe if you get a huge/mass order you can keep prices cheap.. doing ab ulk order at a time or something.

Stevegel
05-15-2008, 09:19 AM
Looking forward to get my hand's on one.

xwingband
05-15-2008, 10:12 AM
I hope the PRICE is a concern... adding in nice features and extra tis or that is great.. but NOT at the expense/cost of the board (IMHO at least)

I dont recall form the original thread read.. is this JUST a sound board..or will this also drive the LED as well?

computer programmable is a plus.. usb is easy to work with.

maybe if you get a huge/mass order you can keep prices cheap.. doing ab ulk order at a time or something.

It would do both.

I think mass orders were addressed with Erv's inquiries. There simply isn't a huge enough demand to get a price drop. If you can get 1000 people to say they'd buy one... then bulk manufacture might be okay.

I see what they do and what I get and I pay for the top end board because it's worth it.

Shadeslinger
05-15-2008, 10:19 AM
As far as loading the sounds fonts go, what format will this board require? Will it be .raw like on ervs board or something else? It was mentioned that it would "convert and transfer" by click and drag. Just curious.

xl97
05-15-2008, 10:35 AM
I wasnt sure what consisted ofa BULK order to make it 'happen' I guess I was thinking more of a few hundred..not 1000..

Glad to know it does BOTH.. but once you get to the $100 mark.. you're coming close to doubling what you put into a hilt..

I guess mid-board is what its going to be eh?

and Marsupial's and Corbins are just drivers.. (but projected to be around $40-$50 bucks?)

vadeblade
05-15-2008, 10:43 AM
Ohh, and this product still needs a Name.

xwingband
05-15-2008, 10:47 AM
Yeah, I guess this would be mid-range... but $60 only into a hilt?!?! Good sound deserves better hilts! ;)

Marsupial's is mid too, but is not a stand alone driver. It's dependent on an MR board.

So We have:
Plecter Dimmer ($55 about, stand alone and MR compatible)
*Corbin's new driver (stand alone, can be made to work in conjuction with an MR, $50)
*Marsupials (MR dependent, $40-50 range I think)

Sound and light:
*Ultraboard ($80)
*Kalel's ($100 about)
Plecter Crystal Focus ($150 about)

vadeblade
05-15-2008, 10:55 AM
...Plecter Crystal Focus ($150 about)...

Last I checked , CF was up to $177.00. The US dollar is weak :(

xl97
05-15-2008, 11:43 AM
& I thought they were $185...LOL

nice round up for me xwing.. thanks

Im wondering if this "can be made to work in conjuction with an MR" has any special meaning? or am I reading into the wording too much?

is it tricky? or not intended to work with sound... the old Corbin boards were wired with sound boards....correct?

or was this to sepate it form the marsupial board with is co-dependant on MR/Hasbro (sound) board..

ArkaiHalon
05-15-2008, 12:23 PM
the corbin board does not require an MR board, but can work in conjunction with one. DPDT switch, and voila

xl97
05-15-2008, 12:33 PM
maybe Im being thick.. but then isnt the plecter board the same?

doesnt require a MR board.. but CAN work with one?

Dark Navel
05-15-2008, 01:43 PM
That's correct..the Plecter can work with an MR board...Kalel's board will be a bit more modified than an Ultra board but not as high end as a CF. I am waiting on more info on this board from him such as schematics etc.

xwingband
05-15-2008, 03:52 PM
maybe Im being thick.. but then isnt the plecter board the same?

doesnt require a MR board.. but CAN work with one?

I wouldn't say that. The Plecter Dimmer has adjustable settings. That way you can match the lighting to the MR. Corbin's is static. So sounds aren't going to match. It's a small distinction, but useful I think as Corbin's is much more stand alone than the Plecter one.

If this board can use existing sounds like CF soundfonts and handle's the LED well it will be worth $100.

(trying to bring it back to Kalel's board ;) I know the USD is weak also... CF is still the same price, but our $ buys less CF)

Angelus Lupus
05-15-2008, 05:09 PM
The weak dollar might be bad for you Americans, but for us Brits who might be want to buy this new board it's good news!
I'm watching this development with interest.

Novastar
05-16-2008, 02:17 AM
Whoa! All this driver stuff has my head spinnin', heheheh. :)

Well, one thing seems certain... unless this driver functions WAAAAAAY differently with sound vs. Erv's--there is *probably* no reason why the soundfonts I've created can't be "ported" to be used with such a board. Nice!

That basically means... well... even if you do *NOT* have a CF... you can *STILL* get some--what--19 sound fonts (+ whatever others have created, and what new ones will continue to pop up).

Very cool. :)

Muchos gracias, senor Kalel.... :cool:

SpectreT65
05-16-2008, 05:57 AM
Someone mentioned that this thing needs a name. I was thinking about it, and I came up with a nickname, anyway. :D

Sliced Bread.

As in: "neatest thing since..."

And since it's intended to be a middle board between Ultra and CF (Also known as Buttered Toast... I guess you folks get my sense of humor...)

Jay-gon Jinn
05-16-2008, 06:04 AM
Since he's a big fan of superman, I'd suggest "Supersound" or "Super-Saber-Core" or something to that effect.

xl97
05-16-2008, 06:26 AM
I too was mimicing the same ideas/thoughts..

Saber-Super-Core
Dark Board
Super Board
Krypto / Kryptonian - Board
Kryptonite (weakness to our wallets) ;)

ArkaiHalon
05-16-2008, 07:46 AM
Someone mentioned that this thing needs a name. I was thinking about it, and I came up with a nickname, anyway. :D

Sliced Bread.

As in: "neatest thing since..."

And since it's intended to be a middle board between Ultra and CF (Also known as Buttered Toast... I guess you folks get my sense of humor...)


Wonder Board

erv
05-16-2008, 10:49 AM
glad to hear about a new sound board project !!!

I have a few questions though, just to clarify, no to throw mist (mainly because the list of features at the beginning of this thread isn't too detailed)

- does the board regulate current and maintain brightness during the batteries lifetime
- Fx ? (light, sound ?), how many sound, sound quality / sample rate ?
- driver support ? (mac / windows / linux ?)
- how many sensors are you using ? separate clash and swing sensors ?
- what kind of sensitivity adjustement do you have on this board
- which sort of usb connector do you have ? a mini B one ?

all my best for this project !
Erv'

Sohryu76
05-16-2008, 12:17 PM
glad to hear about a new sound board project !!!

I have a few questions though, just to clarify, no to throw mist (mainly because the list of features at the beginning of this thread isn't too detailed)

- does the board regulate current and maintain brightness during the batteries lifetime
- Fx ? (light, sound ?), how many sound, sound quality / sample rate ?
- driver support ? (mac / windows / linux ?)
- how many sensors are you using ? separate clash and swing sensors ?
- what kind of sensitivity adjustement do you have on this board
- which sort of usb connector do you have ? a mini B one ?

all my best for this project !
Erv'


sounds like Erv is ready to give suggestions to make your board better. lol

Darth Vane
05-16-2008, 12:43 PM
iam realy looking forward to this board. no offense Erv but your board is no doubt bad ass. but its just a bit on the pricey side. having a board that has pretty much the same thing as crystal focus but about 70-80 dollars cheaper is SWEET!

i also have a question will this board have to use a auxillary button or can you get one like the MR boards wth just the hums swing and clash effect? OH and can you put a vibration motor like the MR? you should inclued that on it! that would be Sweet!

xwingband
05-16-2008, 01:12 PM
no offense Erv but your board is no doubt bad ass. but its just a bit on the pricey side.

That's not erv's fault though. It's the USD falling. His board has only increased 15 euro since I got a V1.1 two years ago.

Sohryu76
05-16-2008, 01:28 PM
That's not erv's fault though. It's the USD falling. His board has only increased 15 euro since I got a V1.1 two years ago.

and 2 years ago the Euro and the USD were pretty close...
too bad we are falling behind...
I mean... the Canadians are catching us!

(note: no offense to any of my Canadian friends.... I appologize now if anyone you were offended. :( )

xl97
05-16-2008, 01:39 PM
That's not erv's fault though. It's the USD falling. His board has only increased 15 euro since I got a V1.1 two years ago.

and if that aint a small increase for cost of living only expenses over the years.. I dont what is..know

SpectreT65
05-16-2008, 02:45 PM
Actually, I'm not excited about this board because of price point. Erv' has been working, tweaking and honing his board to the pinnacle of perfection. Supply, demand, and cost of goods (which are in Euro for him) all play a part in that board's price, so I don't begrudge a dime of it. Ultra has big batches made of decent mass-produced quality, so that price point goes back to supply and demand as well.

Think of it as the difference between a bespoke suit and a regular blue blazer from the local mens' clothing store, and you'll see my point there.

I'm excited about this board because the more people making electronic modules and PCB's dedicated to this hobby, the more boards will be available, hopefully meaning more quality sabers out there..

I'm excited because ease of installation for electronics amateurs was a consideration in its design (and I mean amateurs as in hobbyist, who doesn't use a soldering iron every single day as part of his/her job).

I'm excited about this board because it's looking forward in terms of LED's people are experimenting with, and the power requirements those new solutions will need.

Novastar
05-16-2008, 03:13 PM
Spectre's points are excellent--and not surprisingly. :)

But I would hope everyone would agree that MORE options are better for everyone... they do not necessarily "give to" nor "take away" from other projects.

Additionally, I can tell you all with a very high degree of certainty that Erv is merely asking about the FEATURES and SPECIFICS... not "throwing tomatoes" as he'll often say, hehehh.

Another good way to see it, is... remember: CF has been "trumping itself" since Erv introduced it as v1 but about a year ago or so. So this is to say (again, as--as EXPECTED): technology and innovation are NOT static... they are dynamic, and changes occur every day.

Your cell phone was "new" a month ago... or let's say a year. Now, it's "old hat". Computers? Same. LEDs? Not quite as "yearly", but... same. Battery technologies? Well, everyone knows how I enjoy the Li-Ions... and believe me, the "nicer" ones were *NOT* available back in 2004 or whatever.

So... whatever the case with this awesome new idea that Kalel is working hard to see to completion (if not with his engineering associate/friend)... the point is... MORE is MORE for ALL!!! :)

I for one applaud the effort (as I know Erv does), because... hey... *I* was planning on a board (the Ns5 project) only a year or so ago... but I could not do it without having to go to some PCB company and be looking at $10 to $20 thou when all the dust settled.

But HAVING CONNECTIONS (or the expertise) is yet something else.

As it stands, I have a connection with a guy from Apple who SAID he and his buddies were going to design something for me... but this was 6 months ago, and... I expect *nothing* from them! But... here's hopin'! :)

Anyhow... back to Kalel's board... I say we should all be grateful and HELPFUL if we possibly can--much like Erv has helped us... and WE have helped HIM!

Kant Lavar
05-16-2008, 09:39 PM
As it stands, I have a connection with a guy from Apple who SAID he and his buddies were going to design something for me... but this was 6 months ago, and... I expect *nothing* from them! But... here's hopin'! :)

You know, if that Apple board does happen, I'm gonna have to have to put that in a new saber, and have Tim etch an Apple logo into an MPS insert just for that very board. :p

</threadjack>

erv
05-19-2008, 01:12 PM
yeah,
and iSaber (tm) would have NEVER been so well choosen as a name for a sound board feature :rolleyes:
Erv'

Novastar
05-19-2008, 04:48 PM
Not to further de-rail, but technically... TECHNICALLY...

...Erv's player has nothing to do with "iSaber". The filename that plays what labels it is called "player", and the sound byte you choose to identify it could play audio of any kind.

It's true that Erv and I have both recorded audio saying "...*beeep* I-SABER... *bebbeep*" or whatever... but if for whatever reason Steve Jobs gets upset, fine... "LED Player" or "Meesa Music Saber" or whatever, hhaahhaha. ;)

Anyhow.

Still looking fwd to this new board Kalel is mentioning. Sounds great to me...!

Darth_Razor
05-19-2008, 04:57 PM
I'm pretty new to the custom saber scene,but looking forward to seeing this board in production. For the moment i'm probably going to use a Joe Jedi sound board for my saber.

DDanDevious
05-21-2008, 09:47 AM
the more sound options the better.

DDD

BlackDOG
05-21-2008, 12:18 PM
The more we all work together, the better our sabers will be. If it wasn't foe Erv', Tim, Joe, Mars, Kalel and the others working on their own projects, we wolud still be swinging sabers with less quality, poorer sound(or none at all) or something from the toy aisle at Mega Mart.........

Best Wishes on all our endeavors.


bd

Darth Vane
05-27-2008, 07:04 AM
2 things.

1. any news on the sound board?

2. i have heard alot about "Joe-Jedi" who is that?

DarthFender
05-27-2008, 07:09 AM
I can Answer number 2...


Joe Jedi is the nickname given to the SW-616 Master Replicas Lightsaber Construction Kit. It's actually a pretty cool treasure trove of parts to build an LED lightsaber, but not in the way MR intended.

morpheus1977
05-27-2008, 07:10 AM
2 things.

1. any news on the sound board?

2. i have heard alot about "Joe-Jedi" who is that?
Joe Jedi is a what not a who. LOL the Joe Jedi refers to the Master Replicas light saber construction set. Meaning any average joe can make a light saber using this set...

DarthFender
05-27-2008, 07:12 AM
Ha ha I beat Morpheus!

morpheus1977
05-27-2008, 07:25 AM
Ha ha I beat Morpheus!

Curse you DarthFender foild again LOL

Darth Vane
05-27-2008, 07:37 AM
OH i know what your talking about that was the sound board i was going to use! wow i feel dumb!

do those work any good?

DarthFender
05-27-2008, 07:48 AM
In my opinion, they work great as soundboards. They allow you to select the sound font you want to use (Jedi/Sith). I prefer Jedi, because of the multiple clash sounds. They sound just like the other MR's.

I don't use it to drive an LED, as my red LuxIII needs a lot more juice than the board can provide. I have one hooked up with a latching Corbin board (the older one) and that works great, although still a little underpowered for a red LuxIII.

Darth Vane
05-27-2008, 08:15 AM
so it is worth the 50 bucks?

and what do you mean with the red lux III? is it just slightly dimmed or is it a noticble difference?

DarthFender
05-27-2008, 08:24 AM
If you got a Radio Shack near you, they should be 35 buck now. And yes well worth it.

The LuxIII leds will be very dim if you run it from the Joe Jedi Board. I recommend either using the Prolight LED thatcomes with the Joe Jedi, or using a driver like the Puck or the Corbin board(latching). There are threads that can show you how to wire them. A red Lux driven by a corbin board is a little dim compared to one driven at 1500mA.

Darth Vane
05-27-2008, 08:31 AM
thank you i orignaly turned it away because i thought that it was the kinda of thing "you get what you pay for" kinda deal. this is perfect for a begining saber. thanks!

now i know now that i will use the jedi font but wich is better?

blue or green?

and can you run it off of 4 AA's and a buckpuck?

that might help the light dimming problem.

DarthFender
05-27-2008, 08:34 AM
If you are using a Lux LED, it will not matter. Blue and Green are the same font, same current draw. Same same. Look at my previous post, I edited it.

Darth Vane
05-27-2008, 08:45 AM
mmmmmmmmmmmh.....

i just got done looking at the new LED Driver TCSS has got and i wonder if that will work. or is that the corbin board you were telleing me about?

DarthFender
05-27-2008, 08:53 AM
mmmmmmmmmmmh.....

i just got done looking at the new LED Driver TCSS has got and i wonder if that will work. or is that the Corbin board you were telling me about?

That is the newer version of the Corbin board I was telling you about. It will be slightly dim with red. You wont notice unless you have it next to a red driven by something like a Crystal Focus, or 2x700mA buck pucks. That's the board I recommend as it has some really cool lighting effects.

BTW as this conversation is getting a little long, as we are hijacking Kalel's thread we should probably moe this onversation to one of the SW 616 threads.

DARTH KALEL
05-27-2008, 01:07 PM
sorry guys still in the process of moving, and getting things set. Erv I will send you an E mail with some of the products and stuff, it will be windows capable. i'm at the library now just getting some things set up so I will let you know what is going on in a few days. Testing is going good right now so i should be sending the prototypes out on the first.

Onli-Won Kanomi
05-27-2008, 01:45 PM
Actually, I'm not excited about this board because of price point. Erv' has been working, tweaking and honing his board to the pinnacle of perfection. Supply, demand, and cost of goods (which are in Euro for him) all play a part in that board's price, so I don't begrudge a dime of it. Ultra has big batches made of decent mass-produced quality, so that price point goes back to supply and demand as well.

Think of it as the difference between a bespoke suit and a regular blue blazer from the local mens' clothing store, and you'll see my point there.

I'm excited about this board because the more people making electronic modules and PCB's dedicated to this hobby, the more boards will be available, hopefully meaning more quality sabers out there..

I'm excited because ease of installation for electronics amateurs was a consideration in its design (and I mean amateurs as in hobbyist, who doesn't use a soldering iron every single day as part of his/her job).

I'm excited about this board because it's looking forward in terms of LED's people are experimenting with, and the power requirements those new solutions will need.

I agree considering what Ervs board IS what it COSTS is actually very reasonable imo...if you can actually get one that is...availability is the only 'problem' with Ervs board [and only for us who are unlucky with 'timing'].

But that availability certainly does open up opportunity for other providers of other options and also at different price points so Viva Free Enterprise! [am I allowed to say "Enterprise" on a SW related forum? ;-)]

For me its the forward-looking to high voltages useable with multi-LEDs like the Endor [when/if optics ever come] that makes Kal-El's board so very interesting so I'll be watching this very closely and look forward to 'production' models becoming available to those of us who are not 'sabersmiths' once the great 'smiths' here have helped work out the kinks in the protos.

Shadeslinger
05-27-2008, 03:39 PM
For me its the forward-looking to high voltages useable with multi-LEDs like the Endor [when/if optics ever come] that makes Kal-El's board so very interesting so I'll be watching this very closely and look forward to 'production' models becoming available to those of us who are not 'sabersmiths' once the great 'smiths' here have helped work out the kinks in the protos.

Agreed. I'm already working/reserecting a saber staff design that I think would work wonderful with this board. :)

Angelus Lupus
05-27-2008, 04:43 PM
I'm all for more options for saber sound. It's not going to be taking away from what others have produced, erv's board will still be the top of the range. But for those that want less options for less money, it's a great idea to have something other than MR boards. After all, it's not everyone who can afford to have buttered toast in all their sabers. Especially considering how many sabers some of you guys actually have. :D
I see a situation where Plecter and Ultra boards are used for people's 'best' sabers and these mid-range boards to give decent sound to those sabers we're more willing to bash the heck out of.

MaverickJsmith
05-27-2008, 06:37 PM
Wow :shock: Kalel your board sounds amazing!

I'm on my way to making my first saber finally, and I want it to have sound. The one thing that always bugged me is that so far either you have a nice, good sound board that was fairly inexpensive but with a static sound set (Ultra). Or you had a legendary monster of a soundcard that you could have ANY sound you wanted on it for more (Erv's board).

This sounds like something that would be perfect for someone like me. Fairly inexpensive, customizable sounds, and above all fun.

Keep us posted man 8)

Maverick

Darth Vane
05-28-2008, 06:23 AM
That's not erv's fault though. It's the USD falling. His board has only increased 15 euro since I got a V1.1 two years ago.

yeah the american dollar sucks now. it cant buy any thing any more!

Darth Leximus
06-03-2008, 07:35 AM
I'm getting antsy! Has this turned into a top secret govt project? I know you said you were working with a dude for Lockhead Martin on this one...did they black bag you? Did you see something you weren't supposed to? Do we need to rally all our saber weilding compadres to come bust you out of some govt "Special Interogation" facility?

OR......

Have they found your soundcard so amazingly proficient that they stole your plans and are currently replacing George W's hasbro board with a your new technology in a last ditch hope to make him sound educated ::Load High-School Graduate sound font::

vadeblade
06-03-2008, 08:47 AM
Father's Day is coming up and I think this would make for a great present. Any chance this sound card would come out soon so I can convince my wife this is what my kids need to buy? ;)

Darth Leximus
06-03-2008, 08:56 AM
That would be great but since test prototypes haven't gone out yet i doubt it will be ready in time

Dark Navel
06-03-2008, 11:54 AM
I know he was moving but I haven't heard anything either...Maybe a quick pic, schematic, something but maybe he's too busy getting his life back in order. Like I said to Kalel...Moving really sucks!

Darth Leximus
06-03-2008, 12:13 PM
You are preaching to the choir my friend. 3 months ago I bought a fixer upper house which we moved into a month ago. There is still plenty of fixing up to do and I've been living out of boxes for over a month! Did manage to get my workshop built in the garage though so I'm fiendin for some new projects!

Darth Leximus
06-03-2008, 01:58 PM
Thanks a ton for the update. For all are antsyness obviously we would want a functioning product hope things get back on track. Good luck!

Dark Navel
06-03-2008, 03:54 PM
What types of problems were you having? Major or just tweaking kinds of probs??

TD-2272
06-03-2008, 06:39 PM
Thanks for the update I thought he was going Palpatine on us (Telling us he knows the way but in all reality an empty promiss) hehehehehehe Tell him if you talk to him take your time get your ife back on track.

Novastar
06-03-2008, 07:51 PM
Troubleshooting is a holy TERROR, believe me.

With all of this in mind... I hope everyone also FURTHER understands how much behind-the-scenes work Erv does (and a few others) to bring a solid piece of electronics to the communities. I mean, seriously... me? I'm WAAAY impressed that a homebrew board doesn't have a THRONG more issues. About 98% or more(!) of CF function quite normally, and most issues are due to user problems, batteries, loose wiring.

That all being said... I COMMEND Er Dan and Kalel for working on this. it's just the beginning. All the errors and problems are just tiny roadblocks, and they'll get worked out in time.

Just remember everyone: it ain't EASY! :) Just like putting BOP I & II together... looks "easy" once it's all said & done... but I assure you that it most certainly was NOT. And neither was QA'ing the Sound CD I made... heheheh.

Dark Navel
06-03-2008, 08:38 PM
Maybe Kalel can kidnap the designer and shackle him in a cage...If he fixes a problem a scrap of bread, something else a sip of water..OK maybe not. I hope things work out.

Novastar
06-03-2008, 08:54 PM
LOL! daaaaaang... Navel, you one HARD... COOOOLLLLLLLLD beotch!

heheheheh

Onli-Won Kanomi
06-04-2008, 10:56 PM
I too commend you Kal-El and Er-Dan...yes we should be grateful for your efforts [and Erv and Ultra and Corbin and anyone I left out who does similar] to bring us these complicated electronics to lift our hobby up from 'flashlight sabers' with all their cool special effects and appreciate this is no easy task...I hope these temporary R&D setbacks dont dampen your enthusiam because I'm confident you will have a fine forward looking board once you clear the hurdles and I, and I'm sure others, will be looking forward to buying them.

Bon Chance and MTFBWY

DARTH KALEL
06-05-2008, 11:58 AM
hey guy's just thought I would post some news since i haven't been online for awhile. i've got most of the bugs out and am at a point where i'm happy to send out. I will let everyone know by monday on ship out. thanks for the patience and if I haven't gotten back to you yet give me about another week. THANKS EVERYONE!!!!

DARTH KALEL
06-05-2008, 12:06 PM
Well i don't agree spectre, i've been doing stuff like this for years and there are always ways to make things cheaper but you have to be willing to work with others, and sometimes give some things up and allow others to use your design. i'm comparing mine against a V.4 right now, and I won't say too much but the board will speak for itself. Plus my builder can make a batch of 50 at a time with his computer aided solder. i'm a firm believer in doing things smarter than harder and I'm not afraid to share the tech and firmware. that makes it alot cheaper. Maybe in Euro it's different but over here it's not hard or expensive at all. The great news is I didn't have to use cheaper products or cut corners at all. I really love Erv's product but don't really agree with the whole process from order to obtaining. It took me 2 years to get one and i still haven't got one a friend let me borrow one for R&D.

Darth Leximus
06-05-2008, 12:08 PM
It's good to have you back, we've missed you ;)

Good to hear that the bugs are on their way out! Definately looking forward to putting this baby through the paces!

Congrats on the move hope everything is going well

erv
06-05-2008, 12:48 PM
I really love Erv's product but don't really agree with the whole process from order to obtaining. It took me 2 years to get one and i still haven't got one a friend let me borrow one for R&D.

please be a minimum fair. I don't have access to this kind of tools. You get it for free. Easy to get them made faster. Remember that I'm doing them by hand and that this batch of 50 is 10,000 soldering points.
You're not the only one not being able to get one. I have like more than 400 people subscribing my newsletter in order to get my boards. Please don't blame me for having a demand from people and not being able to fullfill all orders.
So, my board is used for R&D... ? :rolleyes:
R for Research, or R for Reverse. Interesting.

xl97
06-05-2008, 01:08 PM
Well i don't agree spectre, i've been doing stuff like this for years and there are always ways to make things cheaper but you have to be willing to work with others, and sometimes give some things up and allow others to use your design. i'm comparing mine against a V.4 right now, and I won't say too much but the board will speak for itself. Plus my builder can make a batch of 50 at a time with his computer aided solder. i'm a firm believer in doing things smarter than harder and I'm not afraid to share the tech and firmware. that makes it alot cheaper. Maybe in Euro it's different but over here it's not hard or expensive at all. The great news is I didn't have to use cheaper products or cut corners at all. I really love Erv's product but don't really agree with the whole process from order to obtaining. It took me 2 years to get one and i still haven't got one a friend let me borrow one for R&D.

Im glad to hear you are basing your work compared to the cadillac of sound cards (the CF cards)...

I also agree with sharing and the pros of 'open source' community work/projects & knowledge...

I just hope price is a concern (and availability of course) would be very nice to have another option for under $100 that does BOTH LED DRIVER & SOUND.

batches of 50..but how often? I dont think it was stated?..did I miss? 50 a month? a week? just curious.. per order?

Strydur
06-05-2008, 01:15 PM
I think what he meant is he can do as little as 50 at a time. In other words he can get a good price without ordering 500 at a time. Unless something changes these boards will be sold exclusively through TCSS.

Stevegel
06-05-2008, 01:27 PM
please be a minimum fair. I don't have access to this kind of tools. You get it for free. Easy to get them made faster. Remember that I'm doing them by hand and that this batch of 50 is 10,000 soldering points.
You're not the only one not being able to get one. I have like more than 400 people subscribing my newsletter in order to get my boards. Please don't blame me for having a demand from people and not being able to fullfill all orders.
So, my board is used for R&D... ? :rolleyes:
R for Research, or R for Reverse. Interesting.

Erv, China can solder too. I've heard they work for pennies. :idea:

Malaki Skywalker
06-05-2008, 01:29 PM
Erv, China can solder too. I've heard they work for pennies. :idea:

Dude... Erv's tried looking for a manufacturer and also not to sound like an idiot, but I don't think thats a to nicer thing to say after whats happened over there...

Stevegel
06-05-2008, 01:32 PM
Dude... Erv's tried looking for a manufacturer and also not to sound like an idiot, but I don't think thats a to nicer thing to say after whats happened over there...

I'm talking about Free trade here. not the disaster.:rolleyes:

Darth Leximus
06-05-2008, 01:37 PM
Malakis right that was uncalled for, this thread is already getting a little hostile and comments like that are just unneccessary.

xl97
06-05-2008, 01:46 PM
Tim/TCSS-


Is there already have a set price in mind or that to be determined by the end products production costs..etc?

update:

on a side note:
reversing is never a nice thing to do.. its always best policy to ask the developer or work or help or a question before 'stealing' anyones work.. (yes reversing is stealing more or less)

Now if erv was asked some questions I would think he would be helpful ..from what I have read in his posts he has been very forth coming with information, diagrams and electronic specifics for many a moon here....

the lack of supply to meet the demand has spawned others to be proactive to seeking out or creating other options and in some cases the only option for many.

Im curious to know is code was based off a dumped chip or something from the CF board? or is source code was dumped for any chips.

either way many are thankful for the work Erv does and has done im sure.. just like many will be able to get this card into their hilts.

Novastar
06-05-2008, 01:48 PM
Although this thread is de-railing a bit, I will say the following:

* It's silly to "blame Erv" for whether or not you have been able to purchase CF. Welcome to "made by hand" vs. "mass-made in a factory"... it's apples to oranges.

* When I looked into doing a "pimped" board made by a PCB company, it seemed par for the course from design to realization that it would be anywhere from $8,000 to $15,000. That means funds you need from the START... BEFORE selling to folks. So that means simple fencing instructors like myself... cannot plunk down so much at once.

* Erv has looked into having CF made in bulk, but... unfortunately it seems that it would only increase the cost for the buyer (YOU)... and basically take the control he has of working on the boards, modifying them quickly and dynamically... AWAY from Erv.

* Unless I'm wrong, Kalel has access to a friend or two that either owns or can use specialized equipment (like he said--computer-aided soldering)... so this probably reduces costs quite a bit. You cannot expect the same from Erv without a similar setup for him.

* Sounds like TCSS and Kalel will be working together to provide the board to folks... pretty neat!

Eandori
06-05-2008, 02:09 PM
Who cares if China does it? Reverse Engineering is stealing. It's figuring out how someobody else did something, without their approval, so you can start your design process where that last product left off. In the world of writing that's called plagerism. Just because others do it does not make it any less wrong. Erv' has, in fact, been extremely helpful and open to this community about his design and saber technology. If you are going to use his design as a reference, then yes I do believe he is owed credit and perhaps even a bit of the profits.

Whether or not he will get it... usually comes down to the morality of the person stealing... and the strength of the laws protecting those who create. Like you already know often people just steal the ideas and give back nothing because they can get away with it.

I know for a fact that the only reason Erv' does not contact Lucasfilm for their approval to build "lightsabers" and "lightsaber parts" is that Lucasfilm Co. is NOT very friendly to small guys like us making fan-products and they will restrict our rights and take ideas with no credit/payment if they can. If Lucasfilm was as work-able as Erv' is... I'm 100% positive he would have struck a deal with them by now. So yeah... if you are going to use Erv's design then show him some courtesy and respect and at least TRY to work with him. He's a better man then you have given him credit for. (that much is obvious since Erv' only found out on these boards you were using his design as a reference)

I can easily imagine Erv' striking a deal where he shares his code/board layout, and you guys make improvements manufacture it in bulk, and work out some split profits. I am an Engineer, I have created embedded systems like the CF is. I can tell you for a FACT that MOST of the work in the CF board is not the design of the hardware.... it's the code running on it. I can promise you that by now Erv's source code is a thing of beauty and anybody who has written assembly based interrupt routines that simultaneously must drive a digital audio signal and read a motion sensor would have huge respect for. It's NOT an easy thing to do.

You want help? Work with the guy. He deserves it.

MaverickJsmith
06-05-2008, 02:13 PM
Oh wow we will be able to get them from TCSS? Woot :D

I think we're all eager to see a demo of this thing in action, but that's a given :wink:

Any Idea for the dimensions of the board? I rummaged through the thread here and couldn't find any.

Maverick 8)

xl97
06-05-2008, 02:15 PM
While "I" dont think supply has anything to do Erv.. nor does price is you want a minimal profit...


however whatever the reason or methods behind it.. a cheaper 'comparable' board will aways be a sought out alternative.

I have never had a CF myself.. (and this is the noob/in-experienced talking here) but if I had the option of card with a few less sound banks or need a usb cable instead of removable flash card..that was CHEAPER

or a CF card.. price would drive my choice I think (again I dont know specifics or want to piss match with anyone about certain specs vs specs) purely my opinion from a plug & play stand point of getting my build/hilt/project done..

I know its not Ervs fault (I dont believe it to be).. the US dollar is weak.. its a custom hand made product... but thats not OUR fault either..

its almost like searching for alternate options is a 'no-no'..and you should feel guilty.

You would think whats best for the community as a whole should be the focus..

Myabe Erv can hook up with this Lockheed & Martin guy for some mass production? If there is an interest?

xl97
06-05-2008, 02:20 PM
Who cares if China does it? Reverse Engineering is stealing. It's figuring out how someobody else did something, without their approval, so you can start your design process where that last product left off. In the world of writing that's called plagerism. Just because others do it does not make it any less wrong. Erv' has, in fact, been extremely helpful and open to this community about his design and saber technology. If you are going to use his design as a reference, then yes I do believe he is owed credit and perhaps even a bit of the profits.

Whether or not he will get it... usually comes down to the morality of the person stealing... and the strength of the laws protecting those who create. Like you already know often people just steal the ideas and give back nothing because they can get away with it.

I know for a fact that the only reason Erv' does not contact Lucasfilm for their approval to build "lightsabers" and "lightsaber parts" is that Lucasfilm Co. is NOT very friendly to small guys like us making fan-products and they will restrict our rights and take ideas with no credit/payment if they can. If Lucasfilm was as work-able as Erv' is... I'm 100% positive he would have struck a deal with them by now. So yeah... if you are going to use Erv's design then show him some courtesy and respect and at least TRY to work with him. He's a better man then you have given him credit for. (that much is obvious since Erv' only found out on these boards you were using his design as a reference)

I can easily imagine Erv' striking a deal where he shares his code/board layout, and you guys make improvements manufacture it in bulk, and work out some split profits. I am an Engineer, I have created embedded systems like the CF is. I can tell you for a FACT that MOST of the work in the CF board is not the design of the hardware.... it's the code running on it. I can promise you that by now Erv's source code is a thing of beauty and anybody who has written assembly based interrupt routines that simultaneously must drive a digital audio signal and read a motion sensor would have huge respect for. It's NOT an easy thing to do.

You want help? Work with the guy. He deserves it.


programming in assembly or Hex for ANY project is a skill in itself.. (I know)..

In all fairness the guy from lockheed seems to already have a job so he cant be a complete 'hack'.. maybe he has his own source/ideas for the routines?

this will be interesting to play out.

Darth Leximus
06-05-2008, 02:38 PM
I agree this will be interesting but I do think we should at least wait until Kalel has a chance to reply to some of this before we continue alluding to him being a thief. I don't believe that his intentions or actions would constitute reverse engineering. It's my understanding that CF was used as a comparison in testing as it is the absolute benchmark for Soundboard/Drivers at the moment. Obviously I wasn't there so I'm not positive, but I have been following the production of this board since the first word of it and I've never had any suspiscions of it being reverse engineered.

I have volunteered to be part of the test team for this board which I would not have done if I thought it was a stolen product. I also don't think Tim would have agreed to sell the boards through his store if he had ANY doubts about it being stolen.

Granted this is all just my opinions and observations and I'm not taking any sides I'm just saying that Kalel deserves at least the oppurtunity to respond to this before it gets severly out of hand.

Stevegel
06-05-2008, 02:49 PM
If it's good... i don't care where it came from...if it's been copy or not. it's like a car guy's.I can put any engine and call it whatever i please. I'm ready to buy 3 c.F,if i find a knock off..i'll get it. Not going to pay $400 bucks on flea-bay.

Eandori
06-05-2008, 03:33 PM
Reverse Engineering for your own use is fine. Doing that for profit to undercut the real creator... well that's stealing. Sorry but it is.

I don't expect people to buy more expensive products for no reason other then ethics. It has been shown time and time again that people don't care if something was stolen from somebody else to be sold later. If you buy something that was stolen it's on your own concience. I know what I'll do though.

If Erv's board is simply used for benchmarking... that's 100% different then reverse Engineering it. There is no issue with benchmarking your product. In fact it's expected. There is no theft in benchmarking.


In all fairness the guy from lockheed seems to already have a job so he cant be a complete 'hack'.. maybe he has his own source/ideas for the routines? So if you know how to write code in a language, the it's ok to steal from anybody else who also creates products in that language? You can't mean that.... If you mean that he didn't use Erv's work and created that product 100% on his own... well then nothing was stolen right? Nobody would have an issue with that. The issue is IF Erv's work was stolen, to which I don't know the answer. Was it stolen?

It's very simple guys... if you make ANY product on the face of this earth with your own work only... it does not matter how similar it is to anything anybody else made. It was your work and it's 100% morally ok. No problem.

However... If you copy somebody elses work, and give them no credit/profit then it does not matter what exchange rates are, what supply was, how much time has gone by, who bought what. None of that matters. Copying somebody else's work with no credit/profit sharing is stealing. Period.

Anybody who says otherwise is kidding themselves.

xl97
06-05-2008, 04:03 PM
whoa.. dont mis-quote my intentions here..

first:



Reverse Engineering for your own use is fine. Doing that for profit to undercut the real creator... well that's stealing. Sorry but it is.


I believe in this 100% I am programmer myself.. maybe not in assembly or hex.. but what I consdier OOP enough to be called a real language... period.

I have the same beliefs/morals as that statement.. so dont twist otherwise please. I neither stated nor implied the opposite.

If your trying to somehow mis-intepret my statement of supply and the USD dollar that you loosely quoted... it was in no way meant as a justifier to steal or reverse ones work.. its was meant as a reason or justifier of why others have persused other options than a CF.

I would buy a CF if I could..buit i cant.. so if something else comes along.. I shouldnt buy it? I shoudl wait for a CF to fall into my lap or something? Erv owns the market? Everything is based of Ervs work? Noone has even proven it has been reversed.. Erv stated it... (questioningly too in Ervs defense... he didnt accuse)

to clarify.. since there has been NO ANSWER/PROOF either way.. I was trying to give benefit of the doubt by saying he does hold a job a Lockheed & Martin so he cant be a complete 'hack' (noob, script kiddie, dump/rename glory hog, at least in MY opinion) type.. and that maybe he DID NOT in fact steal anything from Ervs board/chips (dump his code) (since again we dont even know).. that is ALL I was saying..nothing more or less. No reading between any lines. Which are you right.. noone would be mad... (which is also another point to point out before the mass goes on a witch hunt)

I never once brought up ANY such topic of 'credit'.. I stated Erv has been very forthcoming form what "I" know.. should have just ask(ed).. (no reason to steal).. If in fact there was any questions/reversing needed

the TCSS store seems to be on board for selling them...

Strydur
06-05-2008, 04:11 PM
Everyone chill out until DARTH KALEL has a chance to respond or I will lock the thread. Examining a current product for research and development is a far cry from reverse engineering it. Its not like Erv pioneered the making of sound cards and drivers. I am also sure he took a look at MR's, Hyperdyne, etc while designing his. I am sure when the product comes out everyone will have their chance to compare them and see what resemblance there is instead of just guessing and starting/spreading unfounded rumors.

And while yes I have discussed with Kalel and worked out a deal to sell them through TCSS that does not mean I endorse them somehow. As of yet I have not seen a working product so it would be a little hard for me to do so.

Darth Leximus
06-05-2008, 04:28 PM
All I have to say is.....Word!

Eandori
06-05-2008, 04:58 PM
I agree with both of your responses. :)

If there is no reverse engineering going on, I have zero issues. If it's totally unknown whether or not reverse Engineering happened, it's worth giving the benefit of the doubt. I fully agree with that.

I just thought I was detecting some people saying that reverse engineering is not stealing, or it's ok because others do it. So I was responding to what I thought I was hearing. Yep, if there is no stealing going on I can pretty much guarentee I'll be buying many of those boards myself!!

Er Dan Gill
06-05-2008, 06:22 PM
I will jump in here and say 100% that Erv's board was not reverse engineered, it was benchmarked. By R&D he meant installing it in a saber and using it for what it was meant to do. Along with my Ultra board and several MR boards. While some some features we wanted, such as the blade lock-up, blaster deflect, and user adjust-ability, this is a new board with all new firmware, which is why we have had so many small issues. Ultra and MR boards were also taken into consideration, but we felt everyone would like more options. When Kalel and I started talking about this, what we wanted was for someone to come to TCSS and be able to get everything in one order. Nothing more. Bottom line is the Crystal Focus will still be the hand built Lamborghini of sound boards. Kalel's maybe a mass produced Lexus or Cadillac.

I wanted to do this about a year ago but didn't have the ability or knowledge to do it on my own like Erv does. Kalel made the big steps and contacts, and I can guarantee you, no money is being made by the two of us either, the only thing we are getting is a few free boards occasionally. The only reason this even happened at all was because of a friend, of a friend, of a friend, that happened to connect us with a great guy that has put in way more effort than he should have.

I truly look up to you Erv and what you created. But its frustrating when you see the same people being able to grab multiple CF's, and much more people always missing out. It's totally cool that your product sells like that, but I, and I'm sure others, want more options. I'm sorry if Kalel mis-stated what he said, no disrespect was meant. Frustration has got the better of him. If it will ease your mind Erv, I will make sure you get a board when they are finished. Free of charge, and I'll even pay for the shipping.

Kalel and I won't be updating this thread, or any other updates for that matter, again until the board is finished, stocked and ready to ship out. By that I mean a thread in the Official Store News by Tim. When the board is released, anyone is free to compare it to what ever is currently available, but no official comparison by Kalel and I will be made like we originally wanted to do. Also, I will be handling any customer service issues for Kalel when he releases it. I'll unlock my e-mail and pm's at that time.

erv
06-06-2008, 12:06 AM
So I think we have a nice and honnest answer here. Also, I hope we'll have some words from kalel too.
Just to say this myself, like it's been said above, true, I haven't accused anyone of anything.
Also, Eandoris is right, a lot of the design is in the software and the features.
This is no concern about this thread, but to finalize my answer about things said above :
- I haven't bought or borrowed hardware from others during the developpement of my board. No MR, no hyperdyne, no hasbro. Back in 2005, MR sabers were quite rare in France, very expensive and I didn't have any money to buy a couple or even just one. That's why I decided to build my owns. I got my first MR saber after selling a bit of my stuff and saber parts like sink tubes and blades, in order to get my board installed in a "real" saber. I bought a vader ep V, that was in mid 2006, while my board was designed in december 2005. I like the idea that, sometimes, and only after a good coffee in the morning, I can be smart enough without testing or looking on other's works. This is NOT an allusion of any KIND about Kalel soundboard, so don't flame the thread.
- Testing my algorithm was achieved by working with fencing instructors.
- my initial post was about highlighting the work that has been done in 2 years and a half. We, with Novastar, Eandori and the led saber community, added features to this board. You ask, I code. I don't have any problem with the fact that someone is making something similar, features are features, all I'll apreciate is the recognition that the work is based on an existing product, on the feature point of view and I don't consider that as recasting or reverse engineering.
Then improvements can be discussed. I've done the same for the single feature I "grabbed" later from Hyper. The pitchshifting thing. I credited his work and idea in any post.
Marsupial is doing the same for his daughter board. I'm not saying I've invented accent LEDs, but I've implemented that in a generic and configurable soundboard with configurable LED sequencer. That's not new per se, but I don't think it's been done before in a saber sound board. Same for the aux button, combo gestures, multiple sound bank, notion of Sound Font etc.
- Also, I was pointing out (not with the rude finger) that claiming that you can produce 50 quickly and cheaply is sort of impolite. I'm not saying it's bad to have access to professionnal equipement for free, I'm just saying that it's not really nice to say you're really lowering the cost of the board. For instance, I have access at work to incredible professionnal stuff, including lathe, milling machine, soldering equipement, PCB prototyping and so on. I'm not producing my board with them. Saving money with free stuff is great, and I know price is a concern, but I felt something a bit pedant about presenting the thing. MAybe it's just me. Sounded like "with the $8,000 machine I didn't pay a cent for I can mass produce my boards, I just pay for the parts". I'm not jaleous about that, it's just that on my side, I'm buying the equipment to do it myself, not asking my best friend to squat their equipement for my personnal recipes. That's fine for protos, IMO.

- I understand that this is a fair attemp to create an alternative to CF. However, I'd like you (in general) to consider what mass manufacturing is. Once you've sold your 50 (and got to repair a bunch of them because of smoke, solder drops and user's experiments ;) ) you'll have to think about the next batch. Think about what will happen if you want to get more of them. Well, maybe your friend at lockheed can do that forever, I don't know. What I'm saying is that there's a difference between a one shot (even it the "shot" is a batch of 50) and staying on the line for the next step.

I haven't changed my mind from my initial post, I'm welcoming the fact other people are making stuff. Just put a bit of credit to previous work and don't swallow too fast the question (please).

About my "ordering method". This is your first batch. See how fast if goes and see how you are going to handle orders. I think I came with the most fair solution for everyone. What I'm saying is that I'm getting organized like I can doing that solo. Now you have your personnal enginneer for designing the product (for free), mass manufacturing for free, someone to help you here on the forum for technical support for free. Free means "no real cost except time", does not mean they won't be rewarded in a way or another.
All I'm asking isn't a Kalimero Egg cap, just a bit of consideration for the fact I've made 600 boards by hand, designed from scratched, and fixed any board that came back to me. This work represents 12 millions of solder points, roughly. I don't want a medal, just a bit of consideration instead of "I'm pissed off because I took me 2 years to get a CF" (caricaturing a bit, that's true).

Thanks for the proposal of getting a board when they are there, I'll be glad to test them, really !

My best to everyone,
Erv'

DARTH KALEL
06-22-2008, 05:17 PM
sorry I have been gone so long everything has just been rapant. I did some testing and tinkering but mainly waiting on my builder to finish his previous contract. It's really been cat and mouse the last few weeks for me and him. He has 150 boards on the table done, waiting for next level of testing, after that level and he feels he is satisfied then we will get the first batch to our pre selected test group. I will give the test group 3 weeks to compile thier findings and suggestions, if any lol, then we will be ready to retail. Details in the next few weeks.

Erv i'm sorry for all the confusion and with me not around to guide the plan it's been a little difficult. Everyone just needs to lighten up and relax, we are all doing this to help the saber community, for all of you, it's not about the money or anything else, just to make it available and cost effective. There are ton's of way's to do it just depends on what's available or who you know and what they can do.

Just like anything of real worth, it takes patience and determination to stay on corse and keep in budget, it's real easy to build on to do everything but not so easy to keep it under a certain price and size for us to use in our sabers.


Oh and yes Erv I grabbed alot of different features that already exist and added that to mine, an original idea is hard to come by, hmmmmm well maybe not that hard but sometimes ideas never meet reality or do so after years of patience or the intelligence to create it. This board only has one feature that is an original idea, I will leave that for everyone to find for themselves. Erv I modeled my product strongly towards yours because I really respect what you have done, and all the research and thinking you had to put into this to make it what it is, you have set the benchmark for which to reach, i've just taken a few things a little further and juiced it up a bit, I think I hear Tim the tool man Taylor growling in the background.
With that said good luck to anybody trying and to those who have succeeded. Er Dan and I are still thinking of a name but we should nail it down by the end of the week.

Those who I have spoken with about testing the board please PM me again with info to send.

vortextwist
06-22-2008, 05:45 PM
Those who I have spoken with about testing the board please PM me again with info to send.
dang! how did I miss out on this, bummer:( can't wait to see the finished product.

Onli-Won Kanomi
06-24-2008, 06:45 PM
Thanks for the update Darth Kal-El...glad to hear how this promising development is progressing...I'll be VERY eager to buy one once the expert sabersmith group's testing has cleared them for use by us less skilled 'general audiences' :-).

MTFBWY in this endeavour!.

Stevegel
06-24-2008, 07:35 PM
me want card too. :D

Darth_DevilGuy
06-24-2008, 09:06 PM
same here, having one that can adequately power a rebel will be a major step in advancing the hobby.

Darkstar
06-24-2008, 09:06 PM
me too! me too! :D

jedi/storm
06-25-2008, 03:57 AM
I belive this is a very exciting development in the entire SABER building hobby.I think that there is room enough for people to use new and old ideas in harmony. Its the old Bell/Gray thing even the " Good Book" says "There are no new ideas under the sun". I for one and ok im a noob ( haven't even built my first saber yet) am glad that guy's like Erv and Kal-el and all the others that work behind the scene's want to and do contribute There time and efforts to this GREAT hobby !!!!.Thats my twopenneth hope i didn't offend any one.

To Kal-el i would also like to be informed when the board's are ready. I would be honoured to include one of your boards in my first saber.

DDanDevious
06-25-2008, 07:06 AM
...standing by.

DDD

Hasid Lafre
06-25-2008, 05:17 PM
Well all I can say is the same thing I said to erv when I first heard of the CF. Good luck to you.

DARTH KALEL
06-25-2008, 05:28 PM
Well all I can say is the same thing I said to erv when I first heard of the CF. Good luck to you.

Just have to say i love the new quote hasid.

DARTH KALEL
06-26-2008, 01:15 PM
alright guys i've heard from most of the testers still waiting on a few. The boards are on there final test platform now, just checking current levels and solder holdup. I want to ship the test models all out at once so those remaining that haven't got back with me please hurry. I've been a little out lately, has there been any update on the rebel optics or has anyone tried something yet? i really want to try some RGB with these.

Jonitus
06-26-2008, 01:37 PM
alright guys i've heard from most of the testers still waiting on a few. The boards are on there final test platform now, just checking current levels and solder holdup. I want to ship the test models all out at once so those remaining that haven't got back with me please hurry. I've been a little out lately, has there been any update on the rebel optics or has anyone tried something yet? i really want to try some RGB with these.

Who are the testers? How many testers are you using? How are you compiling feedback from them and how are you using it? What are your plans for revisions after the testing is completed? Would you consider your board an alpha release product with beta after the first round of testing is completed? When can saberbulders like myself expect to see this product available for sale so we can start planning projects and sales?

Jedi Ranger
06-26-2008, 01:42 PM
Well, I too, certainly look forward to having another all-in-1 driver board for an option.

I wish you good luck, Darth Kalel!

vortextwist
06-26-2008, 04:59 PM
alright guys i've heard from most of the testers still waiting on a few. The boards are on there final test platform now, just checking current levels and solder holdup. I want to ship the test models all out at once so those remaining that haven't got back with me please hurry. I've been a little out lately, has there been any update on the rebel optics or has anyone tried something yet? i really want to try some RGB with these.

Lando is the rbg expert over at fx-sabers, give him a holler.

xwingband
06-26-2008, 07:10 PM
Take a single rebel optic and modify the holder. That's the only way to get the most (without a true optic for it) and be certain of it. Grayven has just been hacking up reflectors... when you do that you have no clue whether you're getting the correct focal point.

Darth_DevilGuy
06-26-2008, 07:41 PM
you could modify the reflector of a flashlight if it had the right focus, as far as I know parabolics will always have a true focal point so long as you don't warp the mirror.

Hasid Lafre
06-26-2008, 07:57 PM
graven has also been putting clear epoxy of some sort on the dome's of the leds too.

Atleast I think that was him that did that.

xwingband
06-26-2008, 08:21 PM
you could modify the reflector of a flashlight if it had the right focus, as far as I know parabolics will always have a true focal point so long as you don't warp the mirror.

That's a given...

The problem is that as soon as you modify it you have no idea what that focal point is.

At least when you start with the single rebel holders that use our standard lenses you're sure the focus is right. The off part is that you aren't getting all of the LED under it. I find that much better than the idea that you are getting all the light up at some unknown angle. If you've ever seen that old pic of different angle lenses Corbin made it'd be apparent that getting a good angle is critical to an even blade.

Novastar
06-26-2008, 08:40 PM
X is right on the money... if the angle is "tweaked" off to one side or another... it'll be *ARSE*. :)

Additionally, about the best "margin of error" is from 2 degrees to 10. In reality... that is VERY easy to screw up if you're playing around with / modifying the optics. You can easily jump from 5 degrees to 25 with any kind of reflector if you don't know EXACTLY what the heck is going on.

I've randomly "played around" putting wacky reflectors over LEDs when they were just on the heatsink... everything from gigantor ones to small ones "meant" for sabers (lol).

But... I have to be honest...

...I don't get it. :)

I have *NO* idea how to do anything right/better with them. I just leave them alone. It's also why instead of wasting my bloody time messing around with "home-made" reflectors/lenses... I believe it to be something that is UNABLE TO BE DONE (by me, N-Star, with my meager tools), and best left to precise machinery.

I mean... I really don't need the bloody "HUBBLE LED SABER". My sabers have enough "Millenium Falcon" issues as it is... sometimes. ;)

Hasid Lafre
06-26-2008, 11:26 PM
lol nice one there nova. Me IMO Iam nto gonna mess with a single rebel of any sort untill th eoptics for them are 100% rebel. Iam not gonna waste my time making something to make something work.

DARTH KALEL
06-27-2008, 02:39 PM
Who are the testers? How many testers are you using? How are you compiling feedback from them and how are you using it? What are your plans for revisions after the testing is completed? Would you consider your board an alpha release product with beta after the first round of testing is completed? When can saberbulders like myself expect to see this product available for sale so we can start planning projects and sales?

Well to answer as short as possible. I've handpicked about 20 saber builders that have either impressed me with thier knowledge or craftsmanship and in some cases both. I wanted to get a wide variety of LED preferences and battery setups. Yes this is the first round of testing, after getting feedback we will arrange and adjust as needed and then shoot the beta. I've done alot of testing myself with it, I think it's great but then all I have to compare it to really is an MR board, with that said I expect the first round of testing to be about 2-3 weeks, then another 2 weeks for updates and packaging, time it takes to get to retailer and up in store about 45-60 days. I don't want to get in a rush and forget things so I want the testers to have time to try different things and test durabillity.
When we get ready for the retail release, Tim will post in the store, the price and date to be available.

I've got a tri red rebel mounted in my custom sidious, with no optics. If anybody has any idea's please let me know. i've just been running in with a small culminator out of a mag lite, it's bright and looks great but i know it can be better, plus i get a huge flare about half way up.

TD-2272
06-27-2008, 06:08 PM
Hey Kal do you have a pic of that tri red I would like to see it

DARTH KALEL
06-28-2008, 12:06 AM
I haven't set all my stuff up yet but hopefully by the weeks end.

Onli-Won Kanomi
06-28-2008, 01:13 AM
I know folks have tried reflectors with the RGB Endors with mixed results but has anyone got any results trying a reflector with a WHITE Endor [like say the 540 lumen one?]

I can understand why getting the focal point 'just right' could be especially important with an RGB Endor since you'd want the colours to 'mix' properly...but could the reflectors work better with the white Endors perhaps - afterall no colour mixing would be necessary with the white LEDs so maybe it wouldnt matter so much if they all focused in the exact same spot???

DARTH KALEL
06-28-2008, 02:21 AM
a buddy of mine mounted it for me last weekend it's pretty jazzy.

Hasid Lafre
06-28-2008, 07:10 AM
Onli the same thing is applyed to any altered optics as you can screw up the focal point.

Thats why I think if your gonna do rgb the only option thats gonna work no matter what will be the prolight, I dont not think a tri rebel is worth it at the moment.

Maybe if they were placed closer togeather then maybe one could use a reflector unaltered.

DizzyKungFu
06-30-2008, 08:52 AM
Is this card going to have the pulse modulation feature (I think that's what it's called when you get the "blade flicker" as oppossed to a solid light)?

DARTH KALEL
07-01-2008, 12:36 AM
It will have the option in the load program to switch certain fonts to pulse or stay solid or have all or none. and can even be set to pulse only during certain fonts ie movement, flicker only when you swing it or clash, haven't really figured out how to control the pulse setting to increase during swing but for clash for sure, during full pulse mode.

TD-2272
07-01-2008, 05:51 AM
Sweet, this is all too exciting!!

Novastar
07-01-2008, 10:35 AM
Sounds great Kalel... looking forward to helping with testing.

I may as well add that software/firmware changes to SOLID hardware... are pretty simple... and they add a lot of variety!

The hardware is the toughest though--using the "building a skyscraper" analogy: without a solid ground floor foundation... the higher/more you build, the easier it will all come tumbling down!

So... as long as your hardware is as strong as a solid rock--the rest should be cake for your programmer/designer/etc.

DARTH KALEL
07-10-2008, 07:07 PM
I can't wait to get them out it's just been slow and have had a few issues with heat on the boards, so I am finally getting that figured out. with just a few touches it handles the current much better. I will have an ETA for them by the end of the week. My builder is finishing the mods and then i'm just going to ship them out and let you guys find the rest of the kinks. It's a lot harder polishing them up then I thought at first. But I will PREVAIL!! LOL. I have been trying compact drill lithium batteries with them. Talk about run time. One is a 18v LI with a 3.5mah ratting, I got tired of waiting for it to die. lol I ran it for 3.5 hours with no prob.

TD-2272
07-10-2008, 08:18 PM
I can't wait to get them out it's just been slow and have had a few issues with heat on the boards, so I am finally getting that figured out. with just a few touches it handles the current much better. I will have an ETA for them by the end of the week. My builder is finishing the mods and then i'm just going to ship them out and let you guys find the rest of the kinks. It's a lot harder polishing them up then I thought at first. But I will PREVAIL!! LOL. I have been trying compact drill lithium batteries with them. Talk about run time. One is a 18v LI with a 3.5mah ratting, I got tired of waiting for it to die. lol I ran it for 3.5 hours with no prob.


sweet mama mia 3.5 hours thats friggin awesome now I know I can't wait to get one!

Great job Kalel

Master Dru-Er
07-10-2008, 08:39 PM
I'm anxiously awaiting... Great job!

Darth Leximus
07-11-2008, 07:04 AM
OH BOY! This is gonna be fun, can't wait! Check your PM kalel

morpheus1977
07-11-2008, 07:57 AM
Awsome. any chances the testers will get their hands on them in time for San Diego Comic Con starting 23 jul??

Onli-Won Kanomi
07-11-2008, 10:42 AM
sweet mama mia 3.5 hours thats friggin awesome now I know I can't wait to get one!

Great job Kalel

Sweet Mama 18 VOLTS!!! thats frakkin amazingly awesome!

*visions of sugarplums...errr dual-Endor saberstaffs and 900 lumen P7s...dance in his head*

May have to rename you Darth Santa ;-)

Please tell us more about these batteries you've found...will they fit in MHS hilts?

Truly AWESOME job indeed Lord KalEl...can hardly wait for these to be released...

xwingband
07-11-2008, 10:46 AM
I doubt they would... to get 3.5A and 18V they'd have to be five cells of a big size... even with a staff that's big. Probably not exactly cheap either. Those cells for power tools are for high drain apps and specialized from what I understand.

Onli-Won Kanomi
07-11-2008, 11:08 AM
Yeah might have just been for 'benchmark testing'..but a fanboy can DREAM eh? ;-)

vadeblade
07-11-2008, 11:12 AM
Please tell us more about these batteries you've found...will they fit in MHS hilts?


I think he said he used a cordless drill battery. I believe he mentioned that just to show run-time / smoke testing he is doing.

DARTH KALEL
07-15-2008, 12:37 AM
yeah they are not cheap but they are pretty small. They have to be incorporated into the pommel design they are about 2" outer but soid hard case angled at the end's and only about 2.5" long. They also have a 12v model that is a little slimmer but same lenght. I wouldn't recommend using them but I have a buddy who runs a small parts repair shop so he had a few lying around. They actually work great for the 2.5" sink tube, they just slide right in. I have some squared one's i'm going to try next plus give's me a chance to try resonance chambers. plus i'm going to try a fan on the backside of the speaker mounted between the grip and the heatsink. The P7 i am running on that one is HOT!! I'm getting ready to ship a few test models out, I'm getting short on funds so i'm going to do 5 a week starting on the 28th for 4 weeks for testing. It will give me and the testers a little time to play around and give feedback and not break my bank at the moment. I know how money is tight for everyone right now so PLEASE don't offer to pay for it to be shipped, I greatly appreciate this but it's much easier for me and it will also help you, as when the kinks are worked out you will ship your test models back to be UPDATED and then shipped back, so not paying for it now will help me feel better about making you ship it back and forth the final time. I have been so happy with everyone's help and suggestions, you have no idea what these forum's allowed me to do. All testers will recieve thier boards free of charge minus the final ship de ship. Since TCSS will be the retailer a final price will be anounced by TIM at his discresion. I expect testing to finish up in 6-8 weeks. I know it's long but I want to make sure that my product can match the quality TIM and TCSS are known for. As everyone is well aware you can't always see the future clearly but with patience and focus you can rule the Galaxy. HAHAHAHA.

Darth Leximus
07-15-2008, 07:28 AM
Sounds like a good plan and money being tight is definately something I think we all can understand.

DARTH KALEL
07-19-2008, 02:16 PM
Yeah the economy is horrible right now and with the coming elections and our choices we have for office I don't really see it getting any better. I mean come on OBAMA and HILLARY. For the first time I am embarrassed to be an American. i thought we were suppose to elect the brightest people to run our nation not some C student with ISSUES!!! I would rather keep BUSH or elect ARNOLD. I say we REVOLT and take control of our government again, instead of letting these monster IDIOTS flush us down the drain. There is no such thing as a lessor of two Evils, they are both evil and we have a choice, just no one has the balls to stand up and say it. I would choke them both if given the opportunity.

Malaki Skywalker
07-19-2008, 02:19 PM
Just be happy Gordon Brown doesn't run your country ;) Now he's a WAIST OF SPACE :mad:

Kant Lavar
07-19-2008, 03:11 PM
6-8 weeks for final testing, ye say...

I think I speak for many of us here when I say: BWAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA!!!

(Note: that was evil mad scientist laughter, not derisive laughter.)

Onli-Won Kanomi
07-19-2008, 04:10 PM
Better done right slowly than done wrong quickly...I counsel Patience ;-)

Its a silent-saber summer...come autumn Erv will get CF parts, Hasbro will come out with new FX, Ultra may drop S.T.E.V.E.2 and suddenly there will be MUCH joyous saber-music to our ears again eh?

And I'm really looking forward to this and the other board under development by folks here contributing nicely to the symphony of joyous hummmmmmm...swooosh....hummmmmmm... coming not too far in the future...

Voice
07-19-2008, 11:46 PM
6-8 weeks for final testing, ye say...

I think I speak for many of us here when I say: BWAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA!!!

(Note: that was evil mad scientist laughter, not derisive laughter.)

:confused: :idea: Ahh. In that case, I believe you were looking for:

MWAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA!!!

:mrgreen:

vadeblade
07-22-2008, 02:14 PM
Will there be a wiring diagram and instruction manual released soon for the board? That way testers can get things in order. i.e. LEDs, switches, speakers, sound fonts, battery packs, test platform, oscilloscope, multimeters, devining rods, cables, wires etc.

Also, will there be a list of standard tests you want run before testers go off and try crack-pot configurations?

Novastar
07-23-2008, 01:43 AM
Well, I don't know about the "pro" saber makers, but... I have EXTREMELY limited tools, so I'll be testing "as I is". :D Novastar is as Novastar does? lol

In some ways... I'd say this is a good thing, since your AVERAGE saber DIY guy is most likely going to want to P&P the thing. Come to think of it, I don't think I have ever measured the current running on the CF board to "confirm" what the heck is going to the LED. I just trust the settings. Besides--the current meter would be all over the map due to the PWM, heheh!

Since we're here, I'm likely to be trying:

* 7.2v Li-Ion (big surprise, huh... ok, you may now have a heart attack and die from that INSANE, wild surprise...) ;)
* some kind of bizarre 36mm speaker or whatever...
* whatever switch the thing takes. If it can do momentaries, sure I'll try 'em.

That's about it. Uh... 22 gauge wire?? 24?? My el-junko soldering station with the 1/4" wide "phillips screwdriver"-ish tip/head/whatever??

If it doesn't work the very first time I wire it up, I gonna punch myself in the nutz, yeah right in the nutz. :D

P.S. Loopkicks 2008 is FREAKIN' SICK. I can't believe I stand in the same room as Anis Cheurfa, Chris Deverra and Jeremy Marinas. It's just ridiculous awesome...

eastern57
07-23-2008, 06:00 AM
Novastar, I would recommend you acquire some good tools or at least specialized tools, you won't be sorry. Good tools make a good craftsman. Some of the things that I have and can't do without are
- calipers
- multimeter
- hemostats
- "helping hand"
- extremely strong, but precise needle-nose pliers
- pin-nosed punch (don't know the real name) just a punch, with a really sharp point
- jewlers screwdrivers
- a GOOD set of allen wrenches

seriously, you won't be sorry! ;) and tricking roks...

Novastar
07-23-2008, 11:06 PM
Oh, whoops, I wasn't intending that list to be all-inclusive. I do indeed have a multimeter, drill bits that mark the point upon touch, a solid tap set, a multi-hex wrench, a multi-tool that cuts & strips wires, some alligator/crocodile/dragon/rhino/shark clips (just teasing... alligator clips) that act as little helpers, a Li-Ion-powered hand drill (big surprise again)... and yup pliers of all kinds.

I'm not totally in the dark ages (more like the LED ages), but... I just ain't got no lathe nor PSU nor a bunch of ***y-cool tools, lol.

vadeblade
08-07-2008, 11:54 AM
Have any testers received a board for testing?

Darth Leximus
08-07-2008, 12:05 PM
The last time I talked to Kalel was almost 2 weeks ago on saturday. He said there had been a few more minor issues, but that things overall were going well and the boards would be sent out within 2 weeks. So the first test group should be getting theres relatively soon.

Novastar
08-18-2008, 01:07 AM
Have any testers received a board for testing?Nothing yet. Not as far as I know.

Darth Leximus
08-18-2008, 07:37 AM
Yeah I don't know what to say, haven't heard anything new in a while now.

MaverickJsmith
08-18-2008, 01:47 PM
Yeah, haven't heard from Kalel in about a month now. I'm wondering what's going on.

Maverick

Darth Leximus
08-18-2008, 02:13 PM
Yeah I've been really patient and not letting it bother me because i know how busy peoples lifes can get, but it would be nice to hear something.

Dark Navel
08-19-2008, 01:33 PM
Yeah...I have PM'd him in the past and he gets right back to me but I have heard nothing. He's either too busy or something happened...hopefully not a major glitch.

Lord Maul
08-19-2008, 01:52 PM
Kalel hasn't even been on since 7/25/08...

Darth Leximus
08-19-2008, 01:53 PM
From the last time I talked to him he had said that they were at a point where they were going to stop testing it themselves and let us figure out the remaining bugs. He also stated that he had them ready to go out, but there was an "issue" with shipping so the first group should be out in a week or so. I don't know what the "issue" was and that email was about 3 weeks ago I think so yeah, NO CLUE what's going on, but that's all the info I have for the time being.

We could be a great people Kal-El, we only lack you to show us the way!!
...I think your dad said that

MaverickJsmith
08-19-2008, 03:29 PM
Well I hope whatever's happened isn't serious and as you said just life popping up. This project has come too far to die. But, this being a hobby, other things are more important.

Kalele wherever you are, I hope things are okay.

Maverick

DARTH KALEL
08-28-2008, 10:12 AM
Thank you Leximus yeah it's been a never ending battle I learned by accident waiting for the ups guy that these things don't like prolonged heat, I had almost half of them bend out of shape sitting in packages outside, they were only there for about an hour and not in direct sunlight i'm baffold. I only noticed because I saw some soldier coming out of one of the boxes. I have got that problem fixed just waiting on more money. My wife is due with our second in NOV so it's been buy this buy that as most of you know already and no funds to finish as of yet, but i'm rat holing some extra that she don't know about lol I hate that this is taking so long, I am almost burnt out, almost I said!! lol.

One life lesson learned, 100 degrees in the sun is still 95 in the shade lol.

Darth_DevilGuy
08-28-2008, 10:16 AM
woah, what were they made out of? vinyl? I've never heard of sunlight melting a circuit board before....

xl97
08-28-2008, 10:36 AM
Ive never heard of that myself either...

also werent these computer/machine aided soldered?

Darth Leximus
08-28-2008, 10:38 AM
Glad to hear everything is relatively OK. That's horrible about the board accident! Congrats on your soon to be new arrival, my second is coming in Feb. so I know what you're going through there. Hope everything finds its way back to the right track.

P.S. UPS is the devil!

Malaki Skywalker
08-28-2008, 10:52 AM
Thats extremely unlikely that the solder would melt, especially when CAM was used. Most common solders melt around 270 Degrees... :confused:

Darth_DevilGuy
08-28-2008, 10:57 AM
he said they were bent out of shape, which would indicate the board itself bending, I can't conceive how that would happen though:confused:

Malaki Skywalker
08-28-2008, 11:07 AM
he said they were bent out of shape, which would indicate the board itself bending, I can't conceive how that would happen though:confused:

Boards them selves bending???? They have to take over 400C of heat, and bend outside????? :confused::confused:

MaverickJsmith
08-28-2008, 02:14 PM
Yeah that sounds very odd. I don't recall what PCB's are made out of at the moment, but I do believe they take more than 95 deggrees farenheight (spelling) to begin to melt. Otherwise computers would be melting all the time.

I notice some people are calling BS, just without coming out and saying it. Now, I'd like to point out, Kalel need not be lying. It could be his friend who made these used EXTREMELY bad materials in their construction.

What I'm saying about this is let's be civilized about this news and not be like monkeys throwing s*** around. Give Kalel a chance to explain this before we all jump to conclusions and grab the pichforks and torches.

I'm not defending anyone, I'm just saying lets be adults about this. I'm not too happy at the news either, seeing as I'm supposed to be testing a board for him as well.

Let's hear more Kalel, what's going on over there?

Maverick

Edit: Wasn't trying to point fingers at anyone in particular, sorry guys D:

Darth_DevilGuy
08-28-2008, 02:53 PM
Yeah that sounds very odd. I don't recall what PCB's are made out of at the moment, but I do believe they take more than 95 deggrees farenheight (spelling) to begin to melt. Otherwise computers would be melting all the time.

I notice some people are calling BS, just without coming out and saying it. Now, I'd like to point out, Kalel need not be lying. It could be his friend who made these used EXTREMELY bad materials in their construction.

What I'm saying about this is let's be civilized about this news and not be like monkeys throwing s*** around. Give Kalel a chance to explain this before we all jump to conclusions and grab the pichforks and torches.

I'm not defending anyone, I'm just saying lets be adults about this. I'm not too happy at the news either, seeing as I'm supposed to be testing a board for him as well.

Let's hear more Kalel, what's going on over there?

Maverick

if that was directed at me, there's no need to worry, I've always wished kal the best of luck with his project, I won't make judgements till I see a finished product, that said i can't help but observe when things sound odd to me.

xl97
08-28-2008, 03:23 PM
(in my defense if your aiming that at me)

Im not calling BS on anything..

but based on the HIS facts he posted.. (Lockheed Developer, CAM soldering..etc) plus the low temperatures to 'melt' and 'un-solder' just dont add up... IMHO...

noone said he was lying, or telling the truth. (at least not myself)

and really arent things "I've" heard of happening before.. (as I stated)

Im not pulling out technical facts to de-bunk anyones statements.. but I know from real life, that in MY experiences, things like that dont or havent happened to me.

Maybe it was crap material that should never have been used, and a CAM was not used in soldering...etc.. all we/I can go on are the things he has stated in the past...

the comments he has just made just seem ODD.. in any environment..whether its his sound board, or an MP3 player, a computer....etc..etc.

MaverickJsmith
08-28-2008, 05:14 PM
Oh sweet lord! I appologize to everyone here, I wasn't directing what I said at anyone in particular, I should have said that in my post, I appologize.

I get that this sounds fishy, it does to me as well. I've just seen on other forums things go nuts without the intention of anyone that it does so (and witnessed it myself, oh that was fun @.@), and I don't wish that to happen, I'm not pointing fingers at anyone in particular. Again I appologize.

I too want to hear what's goin on here. Very much so.

Maverick

Eandori
09-01-2008, 11:33 AM
Sunlight will never melt PCB or solder.

Malaki Skywalker
09-01-2008, 11:51 AM
Just to add to Eandori's point, I spoke with my EE Tutor about such a thing happening, he said in all his years of experience, he's never heard or seen such a thing happening. :-?

Dark Navel
09-01-2008, 12:53 PM
Yeah..It all does sound a bit weird but why would someone make a post, continue to add to it, reply to others comments etc. Do you really think that someone would really take the time, waste thier time if this was all made up??

If they melted then they melted, if it's crap parts then it's crap parts...If it's a hoax or made up then tell you what, bad mouth him after the fact and buy some other card.

I am on no one's side here but reading these posts make some of you sound like your 5 year olds that can't have the new toy. Now I know a couple of people may read this and think I'm on Kalel's side but I am not here to defend myself or anyone for that matter..Man-up, suck-it up, cowboy-up or insert whatever saying you want to but give the guy a break. If it happens to be bunk then slander him all you want later but right now and in the near future there are other soundcards out there.

Novastar
09-01-2008, 04:42 PM
Sunlight will never melt PCB or solder.This is just a fact of materials and physics on planet earth.

MaverickJsmith
09-01-2008, 05:01 PM
Not to add to the madness that is building in this thread but, I totally agree with Navel. Be adults about it. If it turns out to be a hoax, then feel free to be five-year-olds all you want.

Maverick

xl97
09-01-2008, 07:05 PM
Im curious as to when everyone thinks a 'time frame' is "OK" for it be claimed as a hoax?

Im not saying it is.. or isnt.. really dont care either way. if isnt..great a new board.. if not.. just another member/story..(whatever) that we've all seen before on some forum or another.


but talking about factual stuff.... really doesnt even have anythign to do with him making a board or not.. IMHO..

for example.. a metling point of a (insert matieral here) doesnt reflect whether or not hes making.made/created a new board.. at least not in my opinion..

as for him sending out demo boards months/weeks ago..and no one received them yet... does NOT mean he hasnt been working on them..or have them done and the move has set things back..

but these are the things HE has posted... they have NOT been made up..(as far as I know)..

I dont think commenting on the info he gives is being a 5 year old.. I think not using your brain, and thinking or following any info without question would be more so conducive of 5 year old behavior the the former.


Comments on both sides of the coin defending or negating the comments could both be valid..

and in his defense, hes taking on a project I know for sure I couldnt do.

Er Dan Gill
09-04-2008, 04:18 PM
http://www.scotiaauto.com/images/About%201.jpg
-$162.00 + My labor
http://www.thecustomsabershop.com/Assets/ProductImages/171_7131.jpg
-$51.00 + Shipping
http://www.thecustomsabershop.com/Assets/ProductImages/662.jpg
-$15.99 + Shipping

Anyone else care to add what they are out on this deal? Asside from getting your hopes up, seems I'm the only one who gave Kalel anything for a board. Don't get your hopes up anymore ladies and gentleman. I haven't even heard from him in over a month. Kalel has my phone number, knows where I live and work. Over a month ago we got into a heated debate regarding things best not brought up here, haven't heard from him since. From what Kalel told me via text messages and by phone I was just as exited as everyone else. Having excuses given every time I asked to see a "prototype", I can almost guarantee we will never see this board that was promised.
I want to formally apologize to everyone at TCSS for my part in this, I was mis-led same as everyone else.
Give him a call if you guys want to 720-290-1923

xl97
09-04-2008, 04:29 PM
Has he just been ignoring your PM's/emails? or something?

he posted in this thread on the 28th of last month...

xl97
09-04-2008, 06:58 PM
whats that top/first image of?

Er Dan Gill
09-04-2008, 07:11 PM
I'm an autoglass installer, so I bought a windshield for his truck and installed it.

xl97
09-04-2008, 07:14 PM
oh man..... OUCH!.. and he let you do all this stuff? and take all these pieces?

SO you know where he lives then I take it? or he came to YOU?

how many boards did he promise you for all this work/parts?

Dark Navel
09-04-2008, 07:31 PM
"I can almost guarantee we will never see this board that was promised"

Did you ever see any type or part of this board, ever? If you did see something then maybe that can give all concerned a glimmer of hope...but...if it was just in conversation each time you two spoke then all I can do is shake my head.

If I personally were the one that made all of these promises, posts etc I would want to defend myself or at least make a comment or something to all of the negatives that have been posted here. Maybe there are things going on, he's busy, nervous about his child on the way whatever but I just don't understand how someone wouldn't reply to all of the negative yet pertinent posts that have been sent in the last couple of weeks.

Kalel, for all of us:
Is this going to happen or is it just not going to work out? At least give some of us some idea of whether it will or won't come to fruition so we can either continue to wait or move on. I guess that's all the members are asking.

Er Dan Gill
09-04-2008, 08:25 PM
oh man..... OUCH!.. and he let you do all this stuff? and take all these pieces?

SO you know where he lives then I take it? or he came to YOU?

how many boards did he promise you for all this work/parts?

I was promised at the very least one with more at cost only, as well as a CF v 2.61. I've known him for awhile, brother, friend, accuaintance, perfect stranger, but he brought this up to me.



Did you ever see ant type or part of this board, ever? If you did see something then maybe that can give all concerned a glimmer of hope...but...if it was just in conversation each time you two spoke then all I can do is shake my head.

I wish I had better news to report, but I have never seen anything. Everything was only discussed by phone or text messaging.

orakaa
09-04-2008, 10:26 PM
Well... We still don't know if this board is gonna happen or not...
It is true that this lack of communication is quite disturbing... ESPECIALLY since Kalel has been quite arrogant and a little bit disregardful towards other who builded soundboards (particularly Erv).

When you criticize someone or you want to "stand above everyone", words don't count, only facts/actions.
You "can" be arrogant (even if it's not a really pleasant behavior to watch) but at the very least, you have to show results, performance or whatever to back it up ! Otherwise it's just madness or a childish behavior (if he took money from you, it's a theft on top of that ! Trust abuse)

Hope he'll react (and learn to be more humble)... otherwise, he'll deserve nothing but stones in his windshield...

MaverickJsmith
09-04-2008, 11:21 PM
Wow Er Dan, sounds like you were taken for a ride.

I'd like to repeat my previous statements about being civil about all this. Don't get the pitchforks just yet.

Kalel, talk to us, give us something. Defend yourself for heavens sake. This is getting rediculous.

vortextwist
09-05-2008, 02:07 AM
Well I never really got my hopes up, Sad to hear about all the stuff you got hosed for. Karma always comes around.

Darth Leximus
09-05-2008, 06:35 AM
Just for the record, I emailed him on Tuesday telling him about all the stuff being said on this thread and urging him to come and defend himself. Obviously he hasn't done that yet, but I just wanted everyone to know he has been notified. I will admit, I was a believer in this project, but my gullibility goes only so far. I would like to hear an explanation from Kalel, but with what Er Dan has said...I'm pretty well convinced this is a dead issue.

I will say this though....If this was BS from the beginning...BRAVO buddy, very convincing!

xl97
09-05-2008, 06:59 AM
takgin payment for a product that doesnt even exist.. "AND"... not keeping communication open/on-going is a crappy (telltale) sign...

but making comments that MAKE NO SENSE (ie: heat from being in a box outside, in the shade making solder come loose...etc..) is just non-sense...

the stalling and excuses are one thing..and plausible IMHO (I suppose...if were not trying to act liek 5 yr olds) ;)... but statements like that are just foolish..

however moving (I think he said) can be a PITA... maybe no internet acccess for days/weeks... etc.. but texting and bogus statements (especially to a crowd/community experienced in this type of stuff)..just doesnt sit well. :(

Hasid Lafre
09-05-2008, 07:38 AM
Meh, total waste of time I say

Dark Navel
09-05-2008, 09:39 AM
Come to think of it, if this is all a big sham, he even had Tim going as Tim stated TCSS would be selling these boards exclusively...

Hmmm...Well that takes n$%$ the size of cantelopes to tell the owner of the store/forums that he will sell Tim the boards. (Nice jab by the way XL97..the 5 year old comment..real cute, ya had to go there. LOL)

xl97
09-05-2008, 09:41 AM
I put a smiley..it was tongue in cheek... (a joke)

Dark Navel
09-05-2008, 10:00 AM
I know...I know..I was actually laughing. Ya got me:D

MaverickJsmith
09-06-2008, 03:56 AM
Yeah, Kalel has had plenty of time to pull himself out of the quicksand he's sinking into. He's about up to his chest.

I'm sensing that the people here are as fed up as I am. Kalel, you need to throw yourself a rope here, because, everyone here has been, and you're not taking them.

I'm considering this dead, either until Kalel pops up (miraculously I might say considering his behaviour, or lack thereof as of late), or something else happens.

I won't make a fuss over this, it's not worth it. I will say though, the most this whole thing got out of me was a sigh just a moment ago as I wrote that last sentence.

Maverick

Lord Maul
09-06-2008, 10:55 AM
This is getting a bit ridiculous. There is no need to be flaming the hell out of this guy until he has posted. By all means email him telling him to post but don't just turn this thread into a flamefest. People calling him a 5 year old will make him less likely to come back as far as I'm concerned. We have to hold all judgment until he has posted.

Lets just let this thread die until Kalel has posted again guys. My 2 cents

EDIT: These comments aren't aimed at anyone in particular, just the group at whole. I understand you guys are frustrated, but really the only one who has the right to complain is Er Dan Gill because he has MONEY in this.

xl97
09-06-2008, 11:01 AM
you mis-read or mis-understood.. any & all 5 year old comments were aimed at "US".. (for the flaming or whatever.) no-one said anything about him being a 5yr old..

those comments were made basically in reflection to your own comments. (to not let this thread get out of hand).. at least that how I read Dark Navels comments.. trying to keep everyone in 'check' like you are doing... and my comment was a joke back at HIM.... not to "Kalel".. Dark Navel got it/understood. ;)

just to clarify..

Lord Maul
09-06-2008, 11:09 AM
Oops...My bad.

But my statement still stands that if we turn the thread into a huge hate thread it'll scare Kalel off. Let's keep it civil people ;)

xl97
09-06-2008, 11:15 AM
agreed.. just didnt want you think people were just calling hiim names.. ;)

I mean outside of some of the 'statements' hes made about heat/sun/material..etc.. (and the responses to that)

I think its just been people wanting to know whats up....excited/anxious/worried...etc

CybKnight
09-06-2008, 02:59 PM
Lets just buy some US2 boards and forget about this thread, there is nothing more to gain from prolonging this discussion.

Melek Taus
09-06-2008, 06:26 PM
Lets just buy some US2 boards and forget about this thread, there is nothing more to gain from prolonging this discussion.

Agreed!!



Melek