Hilt lighting question

[Lord Sceleris]

Hello all, I am new to the forum and to Sabersmithing, I am looking to build my first saber soon, but wanted to ping a few of the more experienced individuals out there.

I have a basic Idea of how I want my saber to look, one thing I would really like to do is have a secondary light source inside the hilt/center section of the saber. I was inspired by a combination of a Random sabers creation and Xwing's "Crystal Chamber" idea.

The question is how would I install this? I know it will require custom machining of the parts, and some experimentation on my part since I am new to this, but I would like ideas...

Should I/can I, tie it to the main power switch so the lights are only on when the blade is? Should I tie it to a secondary switch?

Anyways, I am going to include a picture of the random sabers piece that inspired me and a mock up of how I see the blade looking using parts from TCSS.

Lord Sceleris

Inspiration
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c33/svisionguy/sagaris2.jpg

My Concept
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c33/svisionguy/testsaber7.jpg

[Ghostbat]

I personally would tie it to the same switch as the light/sound. If it's independent you may find your batteries long dead by the time you need to power up...

Although as I say this I am suddenly falling in love with the idea of a few low powered LEDs running off a button cell or AAAA or something that could be on nearly all the time. You would barely notice them when the blade was on as they would be a tiny fraction of the brightness, but they would add a nice punch to the hilt otherwise.

[Jay-gon Jinn]

This has been done by a member here, Lord Maul. There is a thread dedicated to the build here:
http://forums.thecustomsabershop.com/showthread.php?t=1780

[TimeRender]

Perhaps it would be better for you to start with something a little less ambitious, then work your way up when you have more experience with saber building. I am looking at your design and you have cutouts for light all over that thing. Have you considered where you are going to put the batteries and drivers? I'm also not sure what you are planning to do with the handle section. You don't show where the slots end, which leads me to believe you want the slots there to wrap at least 180 degrees around your saber. That's going to make it very structurally weak. Furthermore, you drilled a hole in your main hilt section that will interfere with the threading that holds the sabers together. That hole cannot be placed there. For that matter, the first and last slots on the section just beneath the emitter may interfere with the threading also. Take a look at the store, get a little more familiar with the parts and their dimensions, make a few decisions about how you plan to power and drive the saber, and THEN start planning where you can add cutouts for lighting.

[Hasid Lafre]

The ribbed sections come with male threading on one end.

[Lord Maul]

If you want sound, your current design will not work.

Can you post a labeled diagram of where the crystal chamber will go? Also, what do you plan on putting in the hilt?

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n187/aluke_2006/MHS%20Saber/IMG_1138.jpg

That is mine. I was shoehorning everything into that hilt for it to fit. It was such a tight fit that i shredded wiring getting it in.

[Lord Sceleris]

Being that this is my first attempt and that I have only seen these parts online I am thinking that TimeRender may be correct in that I am trying to do to much to soon.

I know that I want sound, being this is my first attempt I purchased a Hasbro electronic extending Darth Vader saber to cannibalize for the sound card.

I will want to put a few well placed LED's on the hilt as power indicators etc...etc...

But perhaps I should wait till I am better at this stuff for a crystal chamber...:rolleyes:

[xwingband]

The first one I see happening... not the second. The issue with the second is that those diamond parts are the middle valley of the grips. You'll either have to make small holes or risk the integrity.

The first I can see. The beauty of the MHS is that an LED can go anywhere. I'd cut the pattern in the MHS and slide in a piece of thinner derlin or nylon (1.25" OD) and then run two LEDs, the blade and grip section.

The lined ones... painted is the only way I see it. Obviously you can't illuminate that fully without taking out some integrity.

[Lord Sceleris]

The yellow at the end of the grip section is the rings...not lights...sorry I wasn't clear on that. If I were to run two LEDs what kind of power requirements would I need for that? I am assuming you mean two Luxeon type LEDS...yes?

And then what? Just run the LED's in parallel?

[TimeRender]

Well, you don't actually have to run a second luxeon to light the crystal chamber since it is relatively small. If you simply use an accent LED the wiring will be fairly simple. Accent LEDs are covered in the wiring tutorials on this forum. As for wiring up a second luxeon, I haven't ever tried it so I will let someone else chime in. Personally I would try to keep it simple though. Besides, a super bright crystal chamber is just going to make your blade look dim by comparison.

[Lord Maul]

On my MHS it runs a 5 watter as the main blade and a 1 watter as the Chamber LED. The chamber is nice and bright, almost equal to the blade. I like it that way, myself.

[TimeRender]

Good advice. That would be nice and bright, but not overpowering. I think you've posted the wiring for that saber here before, no? I could be wrong...

[Lord Maul]

Nope, I never did post wiring for the saber. I could draw up a diagram if someone needed it though.

[ArkaiHalon]

consider it requested.

[Lord Sceleris]

Good point Timerender, thank you and everyone for your inputs thus far :)

Yes Lord Maul I would be very interested in seeing the wiring for that setup!

[Lord Sceleris]

ok, here is my revised idea....will the more experienced saber guys let me know if there would be enough room for the electronics....thanks :)

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c33/svisionguy/testsaber8a.jpg

[Lord Maul]

Um...You forgot a battery pack.

I've never seen anyone run a blade down as far as you are planning. It would require some hefty machining and high custom costs, I think.

I'm not even sure if the sound card would fit in the alloted space.

EDIT: I'll draw a up a wiring diagram later on tonight. Don't have time right now.

[Lord Sceleris]

Um...You forgot a battery pack.

I've never seen anyone run a blade down as far as you are planning. It would require some hefty machining and high custom costs, I think.

I'm not even sure if the sound card would fit in the alloted space.

EDIT: I'll draw a up a wiring diagram later on tonight. Don't have time right now.

Yes, I left out the battery pack as I figured it was assumed to be in there :)

Thanks for the diagram...when you have the time is good enough for me

[Darth_DevilGuy]

Hmm, the interior diameter of the MHS is too big to act as a blade holder, you'd need to get some 1" ID 1 1/4" OD pipe to place where you have the blade screw, also you have the blade screw at a point where you'd have to drill and tap a hole through a threaded section which isn't going to happen.

edit: oh wait I see what you did there, thats an interesting one... maybe doable, but you'll have to jam everything into that 7 inch section pretty tight.

[Master Mac]

It's a cool idea, but there's going to be some custom machining costs involved. The bottom of the style 6 bladeholder will have to be bored out to allow the blade to pass through it. And after that, what's going to stop the blade? It will having nothing to sit against. Just a set screw wouldn't be very stable. Also, have fun cramming everything into that small 7" section. I've seen such things done, but it sure is a pain. Cool design though, it looks pretty awesome.

[TimeRender]

I can't believe I am the first person to notice some of these things...

First, you show on your diagram that you will use a screw or rivet to hold sections together. That isn't necessary. The parts are all threaded.

Second, if you want your blade to be inserted all the way into the 5 inch female extension, you will need to have it and the emitter custom made. The blade holders all come with a metal stopper that only allows the blade to be inserted two inches. Personally I don't see the point. This will really hurt the brightness of the blade. You would be better off doing what I suggested before and lighting that section with a secondary LED. Maul was kind enough to draw up the wiring diagram for you. I highly recommend it.

If you decide to use the stock blade holder and extension instead, which I also recommend, you won't be able to put a slot on either end of the extension piece. I mentioned this in a previous post. All pieces require 1/2 inch at each end for the threads that hold the whole thing together. While you can get away with something small like a screwhole overlapping the threads, slots are completely out of the question.

Also, and I hinted at this before as well, you need to familiarize yourself with the electronics setups and dimensions of the components before you settle on a design. There is absolutely no way you can fit a sound card in here. To be honest, I'm not entirely sure you left enough room for the battery. The recharge port you placed in the middle of the handle wastes a lot of space. You need to move it away from the center. Crystal chambers and illuminated slots take up a lot of space also. Many people who build sabers with crystal chambers can only do so by sacrificing the sound. Sometimes you have to make choices. Even if you think you can fit sound AND a crystal chamber as some others have, I don't recommend it on your first saber. I really don't mean to sound rude, but you simply won't have enough experience to pull it off.

Decide on your electronics setup FIRST, then sit down and write down the dimensions of EVERY electronic component that you want to include in the saber, and only then can you start to design the hilt.

[Lord Maul]

Listen to Timerender. Crystal Chambers are a PAIN! Trust me. Because of the crystal chamber 5 wires were shredded in my MHS hilt.

And I'm about to start the diagram ;-)

[Lord Sceleris]

I can't believe I am the first person to notice some of these things...

First, you show on your diagram that you will use a screw or rivet to hold sections together. That isn't necessary. The parts are all threaded.

Second, if you want your blade to be inserted all the way into the 5 inch female extension, you will need to have it and the emitter custom made. The blade holders all come with a metal stopper that only allows the blade to be inserted two inches. Personally I don't see the point. This will really hurt the brightness of the blade. You would be better off doing what I suggested before and lighting that section with a secondary LED. Maul was kind enough to draw up the wiring diagram for you. I highly recommend it.

If you decide to use the stock blade holder and extension instead, which I also recommend, you won't be able to put a slot on either end of the extension piece. I mentioned this in a previous post. All pieces require 1/2 inch at each end for the threads that hold the whole thing together. While you can get away with something small like a screwhole overlapping the threads, slots are completely out of the question.

Also, and I hinted at this before as well, you need to familiarize yourself with the electronics setups and dimensions of the components before you settle on a design. There is absolutely no way you can fit a sound card in here. To be honest, I'm not entirely sure you left enough room for the battery. The recharge port you placed in the middle of the handle wastes a lot of space. You need to move it away from the center. Crystal chambers and illuminated slots take up a lot of space also. Many people who build sabers with crystal chambers can only do so by sacrificing the sound. Sometimes you have to make choices. Even if you think you can fit sound AND a crystal chamber as some others have, I don't recommend it on your first saber. I really don't mean to sound rude, but you simply won't have enough experience to pull it off.

Decide on your electronics setup FIRST, then sit down and write down the dimensions of EVERY electronic component that you want to include in the saber, and only then can you start to design the hilt.

Well I believe that I put a "?" at the end of the rivet statement signifying that I was unsure if it was needed....secondly it is hard to familiarize myself with dimensions and layouts without having seen the items first hand...I have the hasbro boards coming, but have no clue as to their dimensions. as for the other components I will have to order them to get a true understanding of the space requirements.

I also don't know about the bladeholder limitations on blade insertion as I am as I said before new to this. These things to the best of my knowledge are not listed on the website...additionally I see pictures of other sabers that are setup just the way I was inquiring about...but I am not certain what it entails to get it done (custom machining, numbers and types of LEDs, etc...)

The blade retention screw is in a type 1 emitter so i have to imagine that a screw would fit somewhere on it and not mess up the threads.

I don't consider you rude per se, but I think that I have clearly stated that I am new to this and I am probing the minds of the more experienced crafters to see what flies and what doesn't....not everyone has the disposable income to produce multiple lightsabers...

Finally, and I say this with respect and a definite belief that I can learn from you, but I was under the impression that these boards were in place to help others and share experiences related to saber smithing so I would ask that you be a little more constructive instead of getting short and elitist on me...I am sorry if my lack of experience frustrates you...but I imagine you started out in the same place I am.

[Lord Maul]

Sorry for the sucky diagram. It gives you an idea of how tight I was for space in the saber. All the electronics and switches are positioned where they would relatively be on the saber ;)

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n187/aluke_2006/MHS%20Saber/WiringDiagram.jpg

[TimeRender]

Let's not start an argument where there isn't and doesn't need to be one. I'm not frustrated with you. The things I pointed out WERE constructive criticism, they ARE shared experience, and they WILL help you build the saber that you have envisioned. I wasn't pointing out the flaws of your design to insult you. I understand that you haven't done this before, and so I am trying to clear a few things up. It was obvious from your sketch that you don't understand some things and I was trying to help. Perhaps you think that was rude, but I think it would have been far worse for me to keep my mouth shut, watch you purchase all the components, and then point and laugh at you when the bloody thing doesn't work. Mistakes can be more costly than multiple sabers. Luckily, you don't need either of those things to make this saber work.

Now, many of the dimensions that I mentioned are posted here on the forums, although some are harder to find than others. For example, the internal diameter of most of the hilt pieces is 1.25 inches appx. The lengths of each section are all listed in the store. The length of the threads are also listed in the store, but since you didn't see it I went ahead and told you. Those three pieces of information allow you to know exactly how large the inside of your hilt will be before you ever see a single piece in person.

The dimensions of your electronics depends on what components you decide to use and how you choose to power them. This is why you need to look at the wiring tutorials, beginner's guides, FAQ etc... Some of these components, like the batteries, have dimensions that you can measure for yourself in the comfort of your own home. As a general rule I think most of the sound cards are about 2 inches in length, and many of them can be stacked right on top of the batteries to save space. You will find this information on the forum if you look hard enough. If you can't find it, come back here and ask, but we can't help you until you know what electronics you plan to use.

The best way to illuminate your slots will be to use a second LED, which I said before. This means you will be able to use stock MHS parts without spending too much on custom work fees. The only thing you need to understand is that you can't put the slots within 1/2 inch of any other MHS part.

I want you to know that I am not picking on you. I understand that you are new to this. I gave you some information, not to insult you because I thought you should know it already, but to inform you because you didn't. There is no shame in that, as long as you have done a little bit of looking first. I could tell that you had, so I wanted to help you. If you make it a habit of getting angry and defensive when others offer constructive criticism, we won't.

Edit: If you want to see what it looks like when I DO pick on someone, look at the topic started by neon the werewolf. He clearly didn't read ANYTHING, so I flat out refused to help him. THAT was me being rude.

[Lord Sceleris]

I agree, there is no need or cause for an argument here, I have in fact seen your responses to someone your flaming :( And just so you know I didn't think you were being rude, had I thought so my responses wouldn't have been as diplomatic.

And I would like to say thank you for all the information Timerender you have been the most "vocal" and helpful in this process :D Unfortunately intention and emotion tend to get lost over the internet, I am glad we came to see each others sides clearly.

But all that aside, I have a better understanding of how much of a PITA a crystal chamber is, and IF I decide to go with an illuminated hilt section the best bet would be a small LED, and I thank you and everyone else for clearing that up for me.

I should have the Hasbro sabers today and I went to Radio shack and bought a few components that I imagine will be close in size to the ones I'd use in the hilt. I also went and got a section of sink tube from Home Depot...so I will be doing some experimenting.

Thank you Lord Maul for the Diagram, I am hoping to have a better idea of what I can and can't do in the next week or so then I'll start on my first saber.

[Darth_DevilGuy]

my advice would be to wait on making you're saber, talk to people and ask questions here, it was nearly two months of reading and asking questions for me before I felt ready to put in my order, and the thread where I asked for help on ironing out the details went to five pages, and mine is a relatively simple MHS with an MR soundboard and corbin's driver.

Planning ahead and getting your facts straight is key with this hobby, because if you jump before you're ready you WILL end up waisting your money.

In short, the slow way is the safe way, don't try to do everyithing the first time or you'll likely have a bad experience.