200 white lumens for 1amp!! NEW K2's

[Eandori]

It even says the max current is up to 1.5 amps! So I wonder what the lumens is at that current. 230?

http://www.luxeonstar.com/item.php?id=5597&link_str=330::1434&partno=LXK2-PWC4-0200

LXK2-PWC4-0200 Luxeon K2-TFFC - White, 200 Lumens @ 1000mA Be automatically notified if this
item goes on sale, the price drops,
or delivery time improves.






LXK2-PWC4-0200 Specifications
Lumens 200 lm @ 1000mA
170 lm @ 700mA
Max Continuous Current 1500 mA
Forward Voltage 3.65 Vf
Dominant Wavelength 6500 K
LED Type K2-TFFC
Radiation Pattern Lambertian
Weight 0.78g
Complete Specifications


The LXK2-PWC4-0200 White Luxeon K2-TFFC is part of the next generation of LEDs that raises the industry standard for light output, thermal management, cost and easy of use. The K2-TFFC Power LED offer the world’s best LED light output with 200 lumens of pure White light, outstripping the performance of other power LEDs and significantly lowering the cost per lumen.

K2-TFFC LEDs offers:

The brightest LED in its class with over 200 lumens of White light
Near instant turn-on time (less than 100ns switching time)
Cool beam, safe to the touch
Up to 100,000 hour lifespan
Low voltage DC operated
Superior ESD protection
Fully dimmable
The industries best lumen maintenance—with 70% lumen maintenance after 50,000 hours of operation
High operating temperature minimizing heat sinking requirements
Surface mount technology
Lead free package and assembly capability
K2-TFFC Benefits:

Fewer LEDs required
Reduced heat sinking requirements
Uses standard manufacturing processes
Increased light output
More energy efficient than incandescent and most halogen lamps
RoHS & WEEE Compliant
For help using this LED visit our library of application notes, design guides and documentation.

[savyas]

looks like the k2's have almost caught up to the Seoul's and Cree's. Almost.

I'm glad to see that they're catching up. I hope we see some colors in this performance range soon.

[acerocket]

RECALLED by manufacturer.

http://forums.thecustomsabershop.com/showthread.php?t=3932

I don't know if or when they might actually be available. Phillips Lumileds will be taking a beating over this one.

(if you read my post in that thread, there is also a part number for a 220 lumen LXK2-PWC4 that is also being recalled)

[Novastar]

Sounds bad... but... brighter LEDs will be out there no matter what. Whether sooner or later, by hook or by crook...

...just like when everyone was waiting for the K2. :)

I only hope that THIS time, the results really ARE well worth it. I mean, I never found a K2 to be all THAT much better than a Lux III. At least... was nothing to write home to Krypton about, heheheheh.

So, here's hoping that WHATEVER company does so... they do something like "320 lumens, 3.4Vf, plenty of color choices, heat about the same as a Lux III or K2". And don't forget the optics. Oh, and a strawberry shake, please. :)

[Hasid Lafre]

Yeah I will take a 400lumen darkside, 400 lumen good side oh and 1amp with 3.6V.

Oh and make that with the same luxIII/k2 optics and have the mmounted on teh stars that the luxIII and luxV stars.

I have problems trying to solder to the k2s.

[Eandori]

I have 3 of these on order right now. I just received an email stating that the problems are resolved and I should get my 3 200 lumen K2's around April.

I can't wait to power those babies on.

[DACOTA]

Lucky! [Napolean Dynomite]

[xwingband]

"320 lumens, 3.4Vf, plenty of color choices, heat about the same as a Lux III or K2".

Actually... that's Cree/Seoul's goal. They have a chart for their goals to get to 100 lumens per watt (3V and 1A for 300 lumens). They aren't horribly far either... the P4 is 240. The Q5 stuff has been out and R's are just trickling out.

At least for whites that is. There isn't a good color push though as with flashlights. I think I remember reading though that LEDs for colors would top out in the next few years because they'd simply be as efficient as the technology allows.

[Novastar]

Well, I'm game (as is most everyone else) when a recognizable "upgrade" can occur.

After all, that is why I prefer powering things at 7.2-ish volts and letting the driver do the conversions/controlling for current... because even as single LEDs get more "power-hungry"... they *SHOULD* be able to get "thrown inside" the Flange III sabers with little issue.

I'm only worried if the heat keeps rising and rising. Then again, the sabers are handling the K2 @ 1500 just fine.

[DACOTA]

Wow, 320 lumens! That is just crazy. I hope that happens soon, I bet we all do.;):D

[Hasid Lafre]

ITs gonna get to the point o where everyones got white led sabers and we just make colored blades.

Instead of talking about what bin led we get where gonna be talking about what # color roll we get.

[Malaki Skywalker]

I just hope they make other colors, it would be very impressive to see a super bright green :cool:

[Eandori]

I'm only worried if the heat keeps rising and rising. Then again, the sabers are handling the K2 @ 1500 just fine.
Remember... it's power dissipation that makes the LED's hot. Not just current. Power dissipation is Voltage x Current = Power (watts) It's not just that the Green K2 uses 1.5 amps, it's that it uses 1.5 amps at a forward voltage around 4v. That works out to around 6 watts.

A wire can be conducting 10 amps of current, but won't get hot because there is nearly zero resistance causing a voltage drop. (High current, low voltage)

A disconnected battery has no current flowing, but lots of voltage. (high voltage, no current)

A resistor in a saber is often passing up to 1.5 amps of current, while having a 2v drop across it. That works out to 3 watts of power... which makes it hot.

[Novastar]

Right. I think that is what I said. And therefore... as the LED technology tends to grow... if the fwd voltage keeps rising, and max. cont. current rises... heat will be increased as well. Which is what I was saying.

Granted, if we end up with:

Current tech: Luxeon K2 Green @ 1500ma with around 3.9v fwd at 130 lumens
New tech: "NEW LED" Green @ 1500ma with around 3.9v fwd at... 400 lumens...

...well, I guess the heat will be about the same. The thing is... I *seriously* doubt current and forward v is going to remain "the same" and have the LED industry still magically gain a throng of lumens. When making apples to apples comparisons. I am not talking about white vs. green or whatever.

So... my point re-visited would be... I'm afraid we'll start seeing smallform LEDs that want 4.5v, then 5v, then 6v... with possible currents getting as high as 2A.... SOMEday. Not tomorrow, not next week... SOMEday. And, in that case, heatsinking will become quite massive for a "small form" saber, and possibly prohibit shorter hilts?? Maybe. I don't know.

[Obi-Dar Ke-Gnomie]

We'll have to dream up new ways of getting rid of the heat. The current heat sinks don't really do much unless air can move over them and carry the heat away.

Maybe we'll have to put vent holes in our hilts.

[xwingband]

It's entirely possible to keep heat down... that's what efficiency is about. Your converting more of the electricity into the light photons. There is a limit though. I heard the theoretical top end of LEDs will be a bit above 300 lumens...

That will be when you'd have to switch tech or go to adding dies together like the V.

[DACOTA]

Next thing oyu know we'll be installing small fans.[KIDDING!]

[Eandori]

Yeah, you guys are right on it now.

Novastar, yep exactly correct. The later LED's will probably be more efficient with the same power input. And it's also really likely later LED's will require more current/voltage which will cause more heat. I totally agree.

Xwing, yep I totally agree with you too. We can already do a lot more to keep our current sabers tech heat dissipated well. Tim made a big step with going to solid copper heatsinks. The next step will be getting a lot of surface area contact between that heatsink, and the body of the saber. The final step will be increasing the contact pressure between the heatsink and the saber body.

That will make heat flow into the saber tube like gangbusters. Once that is happening, moving air outside the saber will cool it very well.

A small fan is not out of the realm of crazyness. It could happen. Our current sabers dissipate between 3 to 8 watts of heat usually. I could easily see the solid state cooling setup dissipating up to 30 watts if setup correctly.

[Novastar]

Nothing kidding about it, Dacota. :)

If I'm not mistaken, Ace and Corbin were trying some kind of miniature fan when they were attempting the "Tri-Lux" project, which essentially was to be several emitters that were not on stars all chained together in a fashion. This was before seeing the Luxeon Rebels and that kind of thing released. Many many months ago.

However, their Tri-Lux project never really got "boosted" into being made for any number of reasons I'm not prepared to comment on. I do, however, know a few issues that they were having:

* Heatsinking. As you can imagine, sinking ONE Lux is fairly borderline as is. THREE is a lot of heat, and all right next to one another. Tough stuff. Lots of surface area you will need...

* Fan = moving component. Yes indeed, it probably works wonders if you barely move your saber around, or lightly "play" fight with it / lightly swirl it through the air. Full on "combat" is another story, as... well... shocking a moving component that is like a fan can cause problems. Then again--it isn't too unlike a vibration motor I suppose.

But Edwin is MONSTROUSLY correct--if fans enter the mainstream Luxeon saber... and yes, I am proposing that we assume that means that THEY WORK RIGHT... they could easily solve most heating issues, since they will "ward off" a *LOT* more heat that any heatsink alone could ever handle.

Heatpiping or whatever people want to call it might be an option too, but... that will likely be both impractical and overly expensive... as would water-cooling.

I mean, basically--just look at how a computer's CPU heat needs to be dealt with, and you have most of the current states-of-the-art. Then, you say "well, which ones are actually APPLICABLE to sabers"? It seems painfully obvious that fans are just about the only other option. After that... well, I don't think there is anything in the current states of cooling down components.

Additionally, drivers will gain a HUGE advantage over any "resistor-only" or "100% direct drive" solution, as PWM and flickering will be nearly ESSENTIAL to help reduce heat.

[DACOTA]

Wow, I kiddingly proposed an idea that might actually come true, thats a new one for me. I totally agree with you Nova but just to be a prick I will say this:Yeah, but computers dont get smacked around with poly-c blades attatched to them, well, unless your a redneck. [No offense to rednecks.]
But I'm sure there are some fans that could take the abuse.

[Novastar]

Exactly. I was saying... fans are not usually subject to being "shocked".

However, with the fan suspended inside a solid hilt, it is possible the fan could be setup to be more shock-absorbent. And as I said--tiny motors can be used successfully in there...

The real question is about having such an IMPORTANT moving part in a saber... protected from failure! I mean, if a vibration motor fails... well... big bloody deal. Oh darn, repairs for later, and it's not THAT big of a deal.

If the COOLING FAN for your LED/heatsink combination (maybe even the board someday) fails... you may have some major problems.

Still... if it were solely to affect the LED... that may only be an $8 to $20 part. Not such a horrific loss. Losing a CF however... well... that would suck. :)

Anyhow. To me, fans = only a matter of time.

[Obi-Dar Ke-Gnomie]

Couldn't someone design a heat sink section that could go between the hilt and the blade holder? This could be one piece that you install the LED to, then screw it all together. The external part of it would have fins to dissipate the heat.

It would serve a function, and look cool too.

In case you can't visualize what I have in my head, I'll draw up a picture and post it tomorrow.

[Novastar]

That is a very good idea... but--it is SORT of already done in a way...

In addition to the "main" heatsink as we know it--well... the entire saber can ALSO be made to act as a heatsink and draw a little heat away... I mean--especially if it is made of aluminum or copper or what not--like the TCSS parts!

The main issue (as Eandori has briefly pointed out throughout a few threads) is the fact that it is VERY hard to "make" components that are not one piece... transfer or "share" heat, lol. If that is a good way to put it.

Eandori has mentioned that REEEAAALLLY tightening the parts together with a really awesome pressure fit, or some screws--will help a lot, and transfer heat even better... basically LED-->heatsink-->actual hilt.

BUT... there is one other problem--ALSO as Eandori and X-Wing have mentioned, which is simply the LED's architecture. Too much heat on the inner elements/wires of the LED... and I mean the ones YOU or myself *cannot* touch (so, not the + & - wires we solder on)... and they fry.

If that is the case, not even a slug of copper the size of a Bantha dropping will matter!

Still... your idea is good! I think I know what you mean--essentially a pre-made part, essentially an entire TCSS blade holder + heatsink... but all as ONE piece? Expensive... but doable! Also--it may be hard to work with the electronics... all depending... :)

[Arm on Fire]

hey Gnomie & Nova How bought somthing like this.....
Its a solid slug of metal to transfer heat but fins would be on the outside of the saber,so as you swing it would cool, mount led right to it and screw blade holder over it , wires go down thru holes in solid body screw onto hilt, could be any length, this one is about 2.5" lg, should be just as strong as the neck down

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff204/armonfiredesigns/heatsinkcenter.jpg

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff204/armonfiredesigns/heatsinkcenter2.jpg

[DACOTA]

Well I think it would be sort of heavy, but it could work. What say you guys?

[Malaki Skywalker]

It would have to be aluminum or something along the lines, otherwise it could be heavy

[BhujangiJedi]

A heatpipe and more fins! Just need to retain enough solid mass for structural integrity.

[Jay-gon Jinn]

That might work better with the MHS hilts with male threads on the end opposite the led...

[ArkaiHalon]

arm on fire

put me down for 2. lol

[Eandori]

Arm on fire, you nailed it. That design would cover every aspect I was talking about. Heath channel, heat resevoir, high pressure contact to the luxeon star, and even heat channel all the way to the cooling "fins" on the outside.

Perfect design. You rock.

[Novastar]

Arm on Fire... BEAUTIFUL, beautiful!

Exactly--without any parts that need to be "fused" together (via screws or pressure or whatever)... plus those fins... you got some great stuff!

The only worry would be for those who would turn on the saber... and NOT swing it too much, hahahah! :) You know... just gawk and stare, saying: "OMG!!! IT'S SOOOOO BRIGHT!!"

[Obi-Dar Ke-Gnomie]

Arm on Fire, that's exactly what I had in mind. Get out of my head!

The only difference is that I pictured male threads on the back end.

Nicely done!

Edit to add:

What if the center of the slug was hollowed out from the end opposite the LED? This would make it a little lighter, and the heat would tend to "follow" the metal to the outside of the saber.

[Arm on Fire]

Thanks guys :), as soon as i read Gnomies and nova's posts it hit me like a jedi mind trick and i had to get it down on the CAD.
after i posted , I too was thinking that it needed male threads on one side.

I think it would be just as strong as the neck down piece in the store, the bottom of the groove is still 1" and the extra weight of it being solid would hardly be noticable.

the only problem i can see is twisting wires at assembly, you would have to use a quick connect further down the hilt.

I just hope the led's that we are takin about become more availible soon so we can try it out. :)

[Strydur]

Nice design. I agree it should be male threaded on the other end though. I am not sure with the current star configuration that a heatsink like this is required but when we start to use more exotic setups some of these would work nicely.

[Eandori]

Oh yeah, totally not needed for the current LED's. They only use like 3 to 8 watts. But if LED's ever get up to like 30 watts being used then yeah... you will need something like this.

[DACOTA]

Edit to add:

What if the center of the slug was hollowed out from the end opposite the LED? This would make it a little lighter, and the heat would tend to "follow" the metal to the outside of the saber.

I think this would ultimately work even slightly better, with the hole in the backside the air pocket would not transfer the heat as well as the solid metal therefore the heat would be forced to the fins on the outside like Obi said.
Very cool though!

[Chen]

I think that looks like a great idea. The weight could easily be reduced by making the center thinner, much like the MHS thin-neck choke point, and then you could have nice long "fins". Besides looking cooler, it would give even better cooling too!