Hyper Hype vs. Luxeon Lust -- Intensive comparison inside...

[Novastar]

Ok, I don't know if this warrants a new thread, but... well--what's the harm in doing a more extensive comparison?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=k5Ws91SGpDA

Before any folks make any judgements--keep in mind that the Hyperblades were sent to me as a donation, and I know very little about them thus far. I'm certain that the blue one is a v1, and fairly confident that the green is a v2... but--I may be wrong. I was trying to be as impartial as possible while still having a little fun. So sue me... ;)

Indeed, feel free to post footage links here, or educated comments about all of this kind of thing... I've been waiting a LONG time to get some more "apples to apples" comparisons of the sabers, and also not simply use the "highest" setting or an "over-driven" setting to base comparisons off of. Anyhow. Watch the video, and you'll see what I mean.

Anyhow, I think the video gives at least a very nice perspective on things overall, and people can make their own decisions on what they like, dislike or if they like it all!

Hope everyone had a great New Year's celebration... I had a blast...

[Darth Lars]

Nice comparison!

Funny that one segment on the Hyperblade was shut off in the beginning, but lit up after you had banged it. I suspect that there was a connector inside the hilt that was not properly attached. Did you not check it before doing the test?

The reason why the Luke "Graflex" saber went to pieces, is that a real Graflex flash gun is not a single tube, but two, held together with a clamp made from sheet-metal. The two tube pieces don't even touch eachother - they touch only the clamp.
This breakage could happen to all Graflex sabers. Graflex flashes were originally designed to be used by photographers who handled their equipment with care. :D

[valeon]

When that thing fell in half I almost lost it. Nova you are one funny guy to listen to!

[Jay-gon Jinn]

I LMAO when that Hyper-blade Graflex fell apart, that's classic! (Your reaction, I mean, that was too funny!)

Nice comparisons, as well. It looks like from what you had there, a properly driven K2 or maybe a Lux V with a good diffuser blade would be comparable to the Hyper blade. I must admit, I like the extend/retract on the Hyper, much better than an MR.

[Eandori]

Thanks a bunch for doing this Novastar. This is nearly exactly what I expected the comparison would be when done properly. I discussed this issue at length with others like Jedibum on this thread: http://forums.thecustomsabershop.com/showthread.php?t=3239

I tried to point out many times that the Luxeon saber used in Jedibum's comparisons didn't have good diffusion. You can SO EASILY see that from the pictures. Even in Novastars video above, you can easily see his first sabers did not have good diffusion. But then as soon as he drops his Flange III sabers into the picture... world of diffrence. You can see how much more evenly lit his Flange III sabers are compared to his other luxeon. Overall, it makes those sabers appear far brighter too, since no light is lost.

Novastar uses a Green K2 (rated at 130 lumens at 1.5 amps). His K2 Flange III saber compared very nicely to a Hyperdyne blade. His was brighter at setting HB-setting 5, and it was comparable but less at HB-setting 10. Now... a luxeon V (not 5 watt, V) is rated at 160 lumens at 700mA. Push that up to 1 amp, and you probably get a ballpark of 180 Lumens. That's nearly 40% brighter then the K2, which IS SIGNIFICANT. I've witnessed it in person too, I have both LED's and a Green Lux V at 1 amp IS BRIGHTER then the K2.

So....

It seems clear to me that a Green Lux V, at 1 amp, in a very even blade (like mine or Novastars blades in Flange III sabers) should be ballpark comparable to a Hyperdyne, even at setting 10.

Beyond that, the luxeon is more durable, cheaper, easier to change color (buy a new $8 to $22 LED, compared to a new $180 LED strip), lighter, and the battery lasts 6 to 18 times longer with brightness at full power. So for colors Green/Red, luxeon is the clear winner in my eyes.

For Blue though... luxeon technology crawls in with a weak 30-46 lumens. Nowhere near the green/red luxeons. If I was really going to get the brightest blue lightsaber, Hyperdyne for now has that under lock. Luxeon technology is always getting better though... but I suppose Jim could change hyperdyne technology too. For now, blue lightsabers seem to go the way of the Hyperblade. As long as you can put up with the run time, thick saber tube, and the cost.

Seems interesting though... this.... seems to be.... exactly what I was talking about in that other thread.....


Oh well.

[Novastar]

Nice comparison!

Funny that one segment on the Hyperblade was shut off in the beginning, but lit up after you had banged it. I suspect that there was a connector inside the hilt that was not properly attached. Did you not check it before doing the test?

The reason why the Luke "Graflex" saber went to pieces, is that a real Graflex flash gun is not a single tube, but two, held together with a clamp made from sheet-metal. The two tube pieces don't even touch eachother - they touch only the clamp.
This breakage could happen to all Graflex sabers. Graflex flashes were originally designed to be used by photographers who handled their equipment with care. :DThe blades were provided as is, and had usage. The high up segment that was out in the video... was "glitchy". Believe me, I've seen this with actual MR strips too. When the PCB wafer strip begins to crack (or solder joints begin to give), you get the "glitchy" effect on connections. Eventually, it just gives way. Pressure and time.

I know what a Graflex hilt is, but thanks for the history. And yes, it is pretty clear how many pieces a Graflex is comprised of... just like (for example), my Flange III sabers are not all one tube. Are ANY sabers all one tube? Never seen it. "Always two there are, sometimes more, never less..." ;)

I have said it a few times but I will say it again... the Graflex falling apart had NOTHING to do with ANYTHING... OTHER than the fact that it was loosened, and fell apart. There is no hidden message here about anyone: the Graflex fell apart right before your eyes on the video. I was surprised. I found the captured video humorous, and decided to share with y'all.

A little more history... it is clear that the Graflex is either a replica of or a "true" ESB style one, due to the TWO knurled knobs... and the 7 small hex screws at the bottom on the T-grips. I removed the D-ring & plate to see if the pommel came off, but it only revealed that ghastly hole in the original "3-cell" circular plate at the bottom. Someone cut a big hole in it. I don't know WHY, but they did. The end. :)

[Jedibum]

And the controversy continues. I suppose these things will never stop. I want to chime in with a few useless comments.

First I want to say ... I do find one particular thing funny ... when I did my comparison ... members like Eandori just gave me hell over all kinds of specifics. I mean everything had to be known and documented. All things ... blade types, diffusions, tips, batteries, charging, what kind of camera ... you get the point. I had to know ever detail or some members were ready to call it a faulty test.

But now we have a fun, casual test ... where the person doing it even says they aren't even sure about the details of one of the Hyperblades ... it appears to be a V2 driver ... but are these V2 blades … or V1 blades??? Are they 1-piece or 3-piece??? These things aren't stated anywhere ... and these can have major changes to the outcome. And yet ... even without these MAJOR details ... the same members that demanded all things be known by me for my test because it would surely be unfair to luxeons to not make sure you are using the right blades and batteries .. etc. These same members are ready to start actually drawing conclusions based on this test ... without knowledge of some very major factors of the Hyperblade. But I forgot, these tests seem to have the outcome “unbiased” members like Eandori are hoping for so there is no need to get fussy with the details.

Instead of doing a test in the dark, I would like to see a test done during the day. A test done with Level 10 Hyeperblade Green (V2 Blade and 1-piece), static blade … whatever Green Luxeon you want (K2 or 5Watt) … middle of the day, say around 1:00pm … room with lots of windows. I think that test would say something. Oh wait, I did it already using a blade made by Erv… well since mine was somehow wrong … lets see it again … I mean after all we want to find out what is truly brighter don’t we?

[Eandori]

Hi Jedibum :)

Actually, you are exactly correct. I didn't bring up every detail that Novastar should consider. There are 2 very solid reasons for this.

1. I am experienced wiith Luxeon, not Hyperblades. I'm not qualified to give him tips and "make sure to verify this..." comments. I can talk about electronics, and technology, but I don't have experience with actualy Hyperdyne stuff.

2. I actually DID give Novastar a huge page of comments. But it was offline. He discussed the comparison with me and a few others before he finished it and posted it. On those responses I gave him, I talked all up and down about which LED's to compare, how batteries work, etc. If Novastar wants, he could post my exact comments so you can see that it's not like I was "attacking" you and leaving him be.

Since YOU are the experienced saber smith with Hyperdyne systems, YOU should be the guy to chime in with comments about what he should pay attention to, what to make sure he does, what needs to happen etc. with a Hyperdyne system. I fully expect that. Just like Novastar said, what we want is a real and fair comparison. Right? That's exactly what all my comments in the other thread were alluding to as well.

I stand by everything I said. Every single word. In both threads. It's all about getting a fair comparison.

You should be paying attention though... I told you that your blade was not as even as it can be for luxeon. Even Novastars cheaper sabers were not as even. His Flange III sabers had the even blades and that was TOTALLY evident in his video. I tried to point that out, but you didn't seem to want to hear it. Your pictures and the video made it obvious. Luxeon does not work as well when the light is lost by hilt flaring.

So where do we go from here? We politely, and with respect for each other point out anything "wrong" with Novastars comparison. Something that needs to happen :)

I'm wondering though, why do you want to compare the sabers in the daylight? Even your comparisons were in a dark room. Or room with inside lighting.

[Eandori]

Another quick note....

The Luxeon V is not a "5 watt luxeon"
The Luxeon III series is not a "3 watt luxeon" series

Although the wattage used at it's rated current is often close, it's NOT always true.

-A red luxeon III is rated to run up to 1.5 amps, at 2.91 volts forward. That is 4.365 watts.
-A green luxeon III is rated to run up to 1 amp, at 3.9 volts forward. That is 3.9 watts.
-A green luxeon V is rated at 700mA, at 6.85 volts forward. While that does work out to 4.795 watts, it's typical to overdrive that LED to 1 amp which is actually 6.85 watts.

Calling a Luxeon V running at 1 amp a "5 watt LED" is incorrect. It's a Luxeon V at 1 amp.

on a similar note... a hyperdyne setup with an 11.1 volt battery, running on setting 10 is probably drawing a ballpark of 4 amps. That's a setup using 44.4 watts. You can tell it's drawing around 4 amps because the 750mAh battery pack dumps out in 10 min at setting 10. 10 min is 1/6 of an hour so... 750/(1/6)) = 4500mA or 4.5 amps for 10 min.

Cheers,

[Soulkeeper7700]

lol... i have to say, you are very talented when it comes to the technical details of the sabers. but i must admit,(and its because i am not trained at all with how to get the info you get).. but i have to admit that i think i would understand R2D2 giving a speech at Comicon better than i understood that post.lol.... :) but one thing is certain, i know who to go to when the math gets tough :) lol. good work

[Malaki Skywalker]

Novastars test was completely fair on all basis's your problem is Jedibum is that you don't like the fact that your beloved Hyperblade might not be as bright as Luxeons in the future? or do you just like to have everything better then everyone else and then see it be nearly out done by a luxeon? So..... Hyperblades are very cool but you obviously have a problem with us lot and are Luxeons? so why visit and stir S#@T when it was a completely fair test?? Huh? your either jealous or an complete 5 year old kid who can't get his own way just over a video?? :mad:

[xwingband]

Malaki, I don't think that fair to say.

Jedibum, share the differences please... not many know the visible differences between boards to know a "version". It'd hazard a guess to say the blades are three piece based on the flickering segement he got when they came to him. Maybe it's one, but I don't think that's a brightness difference.

Boards are different story... is there an easy thing to point him to? Like say on CF boards I can easly point out the capacitors as a V2 and V3 difference, then V1.2 didn't have solder pads for the bargraphs.

I don't think it changes the results, but it'd be food for thought to reference.

[Eandori]

lol... i have to say, you are very talented when it comes to the technical details of the sabers. but i must admit,(and its because i am not trained at all with how to get the info you get).. but i have to admit that i think i would understand R2D2 giving a speech at Comicon better than i understood that post.lol.... but one thing is certain, i know who to go to when the math gets tough lol. good work

I'm sorry, I had way too many assumptions in that last post. I suppose it was difficult to follow if you have not studied electronics. I was assuming that people had an understanding of a few equations for electricity.

Power dissipation (watts): You cannot relate how much "energy" is being used in a circuit unless you describe it in terms of power (watts). Here is the equation for power.

Power (watts) = Voltage (volts) x Current (amps)
or
W = V x I

You can have a million volts, but if there is no current, there is no power used. Just the same, you can have a million amps of current, but if there is no voltage drop, there is no power used. This makes sense with the equation too.

W = 0 x 1,000,000amps = 0 Watts (effectively a wire, lots of current, no voltage)
W = 1,000,000volts x 0 = 0 Watts (effectively a disconnected battery...)

This is exactly why a power company represents energy coming into your home in terms of how many watts. If they charged me by the volt, I would simply convert down to 1 volt and draw a buttload of current :) I would be gettings lots of power, but paying nothing.


Malaki, I don't think that fair to say.

Jedibum, share the differences please... not many know the visible differences between boards to know a "version". It'd hazard a guess to say the blades are three piece based on the flickering segement he got when they came to him. Maybe it's one, but I don't think that's a brightness difference.

Boards are different story... is there an easy thing to point him to? Like say on CF boards I can easly point out the capacitors as a V2 and V3 difference, then V1.2 didn't have solder pads for the bargraphs.

I don't think it changes the results, but it'd be food for thought to reference.
I gotta go with Xwing on this one, there's no need to shoot holes in Jedibum. He's one of the only people on these boards with experience in Hyperdyne setups and he's been nice enough to take his own free time and give us information about it. We should be thanking him.

Sure, it seems that he prefers the Hyperdyne setups... and he sometimes grumbles when we push to have tests done properly, but it's not like he's a bad guy or something. I think this community is far better off having him here.

If I have a reason to differ with somebody on these boards, I should do it and politely state my reasons. If I'm just wrong, then I need to swallow my pride and shut my pie hole. I hope/expect others view posting here the same way :)

[Malaki Skywalker]

Sorry about that ones guys but it does annoy me to see that after all the trouble that Novastar went through to get this comparison and that its just not enough for some people really ticks me off, but in all fairness its just Jedibums point of view

[Darth_DevilGuy]

I get the impression that he's just bitter his post wasn't as well recieved.

By all means Jedi Bum please point out technical details and flaws, we're all interested in getting the best blades possible here.

For me its luxeon, the duelability and cost are the clinchers.

[Marsupial]

From my point of view, the main difference between the 2 technologies is the extension/retraction, heat management and power consumption.

Going to convention with one set of battery that will last the whole convention VS having to charge a lot comes to mind. Cost of using the saber is another factor to think of when buying, in addition to initial cost...

Plus there's the weight of the actual blade. I don't like using a heavy blade for its not well balanced.


Anyone cares to compare the sound output?

[Obi-Dar Ke-Gnomie]

Novastar,

Your Flange III blade is pretty evenly lit compared to some of the other Luxeons in that video. I was just wondering what kind of blade you have on there.

[Eandori]

Sound output would be a tough one to compare... it depends on so many factors.
- The size of the speaker you have,
- the quality of it (frequency range, decibel strength),
- the size and shape of the box space of the speaker,
- the location of the speaker vents on the saber
- The quality of the on board amplifier driving the speaker (some are louder, but not clean. Others might be clean, but not as loud... tradeoff)
- the personal preference of the sound font that saber has
- whether or not it's customizable (the sound font and it's tone qualities)
- finally there's the quality of the actual sound file being played. Is it a crappy 15khz MP3? Or a high resolution wave file? Etc.

================================================== ==

On a different topic, I didn't explain very well how I came up with current draw and run time for the Hyperdyne saber battery. I'll go over this really quick because it's useful information for you saber smiths out there.

We have all seen the rating "mAh" on a battery pack. That stands for Milliamp-hour. Which means... "how many milliamps can this battery push out for 1 hour before going dead." mAh is a standard to measure CAPACITY of a cell. How much energy does it store?

A milliamp, is 1/1000 of an Amp. So 1000mA = 1 Amp of current.

If your battery pack uses 6AA's that are each 1.2v and 2500mAh, then if you connect that pack in series (all the voltages add up) that overall pack should supply 2.5 amps at 7.2v for 1 hour.

If you double that current draw to 5 amps, the pack should last about 30 min.

If you double that current draw again to 10 amps, the pack should last around 15 min.

NOTE: Batteries in reality don't work that perfectly. Their voltage drops when you pull more current out of them. And the mAh rating is more of a "ballpark" number, not an exact number to bet the bank on.

Now in the case of the Hyperdyne battery pack, we don't care about it's voltage, because we are going to assume it's not converting Volts to extra current. As in... 11.1v at 1 amp is 11.1 watts. Some electrical circuits can CONVERT that to 5.55v at 2 amps, for a total power of 11.1 watts. Same actual power usage. But those circuits are expensive and difficult, so we are not going to assume that's what Jim at Hyperdyne did.

No, I'm sure he used the 11.1v pack, with 750mAh of capacity at it's stated voltage. So that means that battery will put out 0.75 amps of current for 1 hour. Now, if you yank more current out of that battery, it will drain faster. I hear from those who have Hyperdyne sabers... it lasts about 10 min. So 10min/60min = 1/6h

Now, divide the 750mAh by (1/6)h and you get 4500mA or 4.5 amps for 10 min.

If you are familiar with Lithium Ion, you know that they really don't like high current draw. So expect them to dump out fast, to get hot, and to need replacing much faster then another Lithium Ion pack that was treated nicely.

I hope that helps with understanding batteries :)

Cheers

[Jedibum]

Malaki - You must be new ... so I must educate you. I have been on this forum and others for years. And I have been buying/building/selling Luxeon sabers for those years. I have spent multiple thousands at Tim's store (Hi Tim!) ... and I have purchased more than once from Erv, Ultra, JudgeSaberSmith, RLSA, and Advanced-Light.com ... all of these being LUXEON sabers. My purchases with Tim probably add up to more than all of them combined.

Here is what I currently have with me: 4 MR lightsabers that have been converted to Luxeon (Maul, Luke ANH, Vader ESB, and Vader ANH), I have 3 RLSA sabers that have been installed with Luxeons and MR sound cards, 2 sabers from Advanced-Light.com that have Luxeons but no sound, 4 sabers that are built entirely using MHS parts and all have Luxeons and 3 have sound. As well as parts from Erv, Ultra and JudgeSaberSmith. Do you know how many Hyperblades sabers I own? 1 ... yes that's right smart guy ... 1. 1 fully built Hyperblade with 3 different blades (V1 Blue, V2 Green, V2 Amber).

I enjoy my Hyperblade as much as I enjoy any of my Luxeon sabers. It is because of this that some people like Malaki try and label me as a Luxeon hater or that I am completely biased toward Hyperblade ... of course nothing can be further from the truth. Trying to put that false label on me makes it easy for ignorant members such as Malaki to then bash me. Because without that label and with knowing the facts about me they would have nothing to say. I have Invested THOUSANDS on my luxeon sabers. And I enjoy spending every single penny! LOL I encourage you, Malaki, to not be so quick to judge simply because a person might have an opinion that does not go along with the crowd ... or simply because I have questions and concerns that I offer before jumping to any single conclusion.

I am not biased toward Hyperblades. But I own one ... and when I turn it on next to my 5Watt Luxeon ... it wins. I know what I see in person, which is why I questions when I don't see it on video. It is also true that even though I only own 1 Hyperblade, I do have a lot of experience with them. It being a new technology to me, I was very fascinated and did a lot of experiments. And in the past year or so I have helped others with installation and various issues. So I have gained a lot of knowledge and experience with them even though I only currently have 1. Also, it is true that I have talked to Jim many times and now even consider him to be a friend. Jim knows that I build/buy and play with Luxeon lightsabers and that I enjoy being a part of the community and he has no problem with it at all ... my friendship with Jim does not interfere with my Luxeon saber enjoyment. I embrace both technologies. I do not choose a side. I choose me ... which means I want it all.



Also, Malaki, I never commented about the "fairness" of Novastars test ... in fact I even pointed out that he was honest about not being totally sure of all the details of the Hyperblade. Maybe, Malaki, you just threw that in to make it easier to try and bash me even though it wasn't true. What I did comment on is that I wanted everyone to be clear that we did not know some important facts about the blades ... and that's not good for making final conclusions.

I do think a day test would be interesting. It is my opinion, but I think sometimes day light gives a better example of what is bright and what is not, but that's just an opinion.

Some info about Hyperblade boards for those that don't know: there are currently 2 versions of the hyperblade boards, and 2 options for dueling. V1 is the older version with less LED's, V2 boards have more LED's and are brighter. You can also get the boards in 1-piece or 3-piece. 3-piece means the boards are separate at 2 sections by some wire ... make the board 3 pieces. This allows the boards to absorb more impact ... these boards are better for dueling. I prefer 1-piece boards because I do not use my Hyperblade for dueling. The 1-piece board is still separated but just barely. It basically looks like 1 long board. This closes the gaps completely and makes the board more evenly lit. Of course this board would not be able to take as much impact as the 3-piece board and you would need to take more care. The 1-piece board can still take much more damage than a stock MR.

Anyway, my final thought on today’s show is ... I chime in defending Hyperblades simply because no one else does. Luxeon is the popular kid on the block. Luxeon has hundreds of fans to defend it or make sure no one tries to bash it or lie about it. On these forums Luxeons need no help, it has almost everyone already. My luxeon sabers don't need me to defend them; you guys will do it for me. I can always rely on you guys to make sure no one bashes my Luxeons. By Hyperblades don't have many people. Hyperblade owners, we are the few. And only a portion of the owners are even on these forums. So, if you find that I am always chiming in when this comes up ... it's only because I feel I need to watch out and make sure everything is fair for the Hyperblade … because no one else will. Let's face it, on these forums ... the Hyperblade is a lone fish swimming among the sharks.

[Novastar]

Novastar,

Your Flange III blade is pretty evenly lit compared to some of the other Luxeons in that video. I was just wondering what kind of blade you have on there.It's essentially an "Ultra/Gelukhan" style blade, but... I fashioned it myself.

[Novastar]

But now we have a fun, casual test ... where the person doing it even says they aren't even sure about the details of one of the Hyperblades ... it appears to be a V2 driver ... but are these V2 blades … or V1 blades???It appears the V1 has a V1 blade and the V2 has a V2 blade.
Are they 1-piece or 3-piece???3-piece as far as I can tell, but I cannot remove the Graflex blade (yet)... can't get it out. I don't know WHY, but it won't budge.
These things aren't stated anywhere ...Actually, it is mentioned and always has been.
and these can have major changes to the outcome. And yet ... even without these MAJOR details ...What major changes.
the same members that demanded all things be known by me for my test because it would surely be unfair to luxeons to not make sure you are using the right blades and batteries .. etc.The 11.1v Hyperblade is directly connected to a charger to the wall. That means it is always at 100% in the video, while the other comparison sabers are not technically at 100%. End of story.
These same members are ready to start actually drawing conclusions based on this test ... without knowledge of some very major factors of the Hyperblade.People are free to make their own decisions. I can't control that. Neither can you.
But I forgot, these tests seem to have the outcome “unbiased” members like Eandori are hoping for so there is no need to get fussy with the details.You're taking this rather personally, and you should probably step back and breathe.



Instead of doing a test in the dark, I would like to see a test done during the day. A test done with Level 10 Hyperblade Green (V2 Blade and 1-piece), static blade … whatever Green Luxeon you want (K2 or 5Watt) … middle of the day, say around 1:00pm … room with lots of windows. I think that test would say something.Ok, I'll try it. I'm sure it will be brighter on the Hyperblade, due to the way ambient light (and light in general) works.

Oh wait, I did it already using a blade made by Erv… well since mine was somehow wrong … lets see it again … I mean after all we want to find out what is truly brighter don’t we?Well, wait... so... is there now no need for me to make any more comparison videos?? Make up your mind. Although I think I'm the only one who demonstrated multiple brightness "levels" on the Hyperdyne saber, and so far the only one to get a close blue to blue or green to green match. So far.

FINAL NOTE: I am not going to get into a pissing match about all of these sabers. This is not a personal attack on anyone, and I think it's impossible for someone to read into it that way. Besides... in the end--ALL OF THESE THINGS ARE JUST A BUNCH OF TOYS. Luxeon and Hyper and FX alike. None of them solve serious problems, nor do they really "help" anyone all by themselves.

Let the viewers decide/divine what they wish from the videos.

[Novastar]

Here is the other video I shot regarding the Hyperblade in the Graflex. It was shot prior to the comparison video.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=32NPDfSA7bk

I'll try to do the comparison of the H-blades vs. Luxeon in the daylight when I get a chance. I'm pretty sure the H-blades will be brighter in that case (is there a question about that though)? Anyway, I still have to fix the Graflex and... well, there's another problem with the 11.1v H-blade v2 that has to do with the battery pack. I'm not going to go into it now, but... I'll have to replace it.

[Lord Maul]

Jedibum, I agree with some of your points, and disagree with others. I don't think you can say that you are simply a "friend" of Jim. You wrote the FAQ on the Hyperdyne website, and are a Mod on his forums. That makes you more than a "friend" to Jim in my opinion.

Novastar, Good comparison video. It demonstrates the sabers very well, and now knowing the specifics for the Hyperdynes, It is even more fair.

[Jedibum]

Novastar -

What I meant when I said "These things aren't stated anywhere ..." ... is that you never state if the Blades themselves are V1 or V2 ... and you never state if they are 1-piece or 3-piece ... so actually it was never mentioned until I brought it up.

I have 1-piece boards and 3-piece boards ... and I have V1 boards and V2 boards ... and I see visible differences when I take pictures and video. So my point was that when everyone goes crazy over every detail of a luxeon saber or they will not accept the test ... the same should be said for anything you are comparing it to. No one seemed to care about knowing all the details of the Hyperblade before making a clear conclusion ... that's what I was referring to my major changes.

I have no idea what this means or why you posted it to me "The 11.1v Hyperblade is directly connected to a charger to the wall. That means it is always at 100% in the video, while the other comparison sabers are not technically at 100%. End of story." ... not sure what conversation we are having here ... I don't care about the battery status.

"People are free to make their own decisions. I can't control that. Neither can you." ... LOL that's a good one ... I am just as free to comment. I don't intend on controlling opinions ... but you are insinuating that I should not voice my opinion about what I think or what I believe they should consider. As if to say, once they voice an opinion I should somehow be silenced. If I feel a point needs to be made, I will make it. And you aren't going to stop me.

"You're taking this rather personally, and you should probably step back and breathe." Yeah, I do take it a little personally when I am required to know and meet numerous standards and even upon filling those ... my test is sort-of thrown out ... for obvious reasons. But a similar test with even less knowledge is taken and used to draw conclusions. Seems kinda silly, and it seems like I did alot of work to meet the needs of members when they apparently don't need to know all the facts.

"Well, wait... so... is there now no need for me to make any more comparison videos?? Make up your mind. Although I think I'm the only one who demonstrated multiple brightness "levels" on the Hyperdyne saber, and so far the only one to get a close blue to blue or green to green match. So far." ... Looks like someone else is starting to take things personally. That comment wasn't meant for you, but you can respond to it if you like.


Lord Maul -

I'm glad at least some of my ramblings make sense lol. Anyway, I think you might be confusing me with "The Disturbance" (Mark). I haven't written any FAQ for Jim and I am not a moderator on his forum. But I know Mark is a Mod, and he may have written the FAQ ... I am not sure. But just to clarify for everyone else ... I am not an employee of Hyperblade, I am not a Mod on his forum ... so far I know Jim only through being a customer.

[Eandori]

I have 1-piece boards and 3-piece boards ... and I have V1 boards and V2 boards ... and I see visible differences when I take pictures and video. So my point was that when everyone goes crazy over every detail of a luxeon saber or they will not accept the test ... the same should be said for anything you are comparing it to. No one seemed to care about knowing all the details of the Hyperblade before making a clear conclusion ... that's what I was referring to my major changes.
Well, don't forget, you even said it yourself... this message board is filled with people that are experienced in Luxeon setups. So we speak to what we know. I will flat out state that I really don't know much about Hyperdyne. But that's why I appreciate you posting here so much. Please teach me about them!

The comments I made in the other thread were important. A luxeon V setup without good optics and blade, is horrible. If the supply voltage was less then 7volts, then the luxeon could not get to 1 amp. A green luxeon V at 1 amp is 40% brighter then a K2 at 1.5 amps. Each of those comments were made simply because they are true. If a comparison is done in the absense of those facts, then it's really not comparing the best of Luxeon to the best of Hyperdyne. Right?

Ok, so going back to Hyperdyne setups.

So for a really good Hyperdyne setup, here's what I'm understanding from your posts and other info I have gotten while reading around.
- You need the V2 driver board, and the V2 blade for the brightest blade.
- You need the setting to be at 10 for the brightest blade.
- The battery should either be at full voltage, or fully charged and connected to a charger (that way low input voltage cannot be blamed for lower brightness.)
- The 3 piece setup is "better" for dueling then the 1 piece Hyperdyne, and better then an MR for dueling.
- Some owners of Hyperdyne setups (perhaps many of them?) don't duel with those sabers aggresively.
- Hyperdyne setups have the ability to have longer blades without dimming like Luxeon gets, but all the current Hyperdyne blades are the same length.
- To change blade color, the user must purchase a new entire LED strip for a new blade. (costing what, $180?)
- The ignition/retraction effect of Hyperdyne is often preferred to the MR performance.

That's most of the information I have heard so far about Hyperdyne setups. If you have other line items of data to add, things that Novastar should do different for a "more fair" comparison, please list them. You know I would :)

Cheers,

[Jedibum]

Hi Eandori - Yes, you are right. I know I need to remember that Hyperblades and how they function are not that familiar, I agree with you, I am sorry I jumped out of the gate angry. All of your notes are correct.

- You definitely want everything V2 (Driver and Blade) ... the battery you will get will be an 11.1 Volt and it isn't small. This can cause a problem for some. After many trials I was able to install it in the MHS, but it wasn't easy. And I have helped a few others with that since then.

- If the V2 driver is set to 11.1Volt battery status, then you have 10 Levels of brightness if you count including the very first level as 1 not 0.

NOTE: This is now considered an older set-up. Jim has implemented a new, easier system in the V2 drivers. In the new system you have 3 Levels of Brightness (basically taking level 1, 5, and 10 from the previous choices). And now, accessing the menu to change brightness levels is much easier. You hold the button down for 2 seconds ... then you are in the brightness changing mode ... in this mode the blade itself acts as a meter to show you what brightness level you are at. If you are at the lowest brightness level, only the first board will light up with this brightness. If you tape the button the brightness level will go to medium and the second board lights up with the first board and they are now at the medium level of brightness. And finally, if you tape the button again and choose the third brightness level the last blade board will light up and the entire blade will show the highest level of brightness. Once you have selected what brightness level you want, simply hold down the button for 2 seconds and it will go back to normal ON mode with the brightness level you have selected. Hopefully that all made sense.

- It is true that one of the cons people have for Hyperblades is battery time. battery time is an issue. I would say, at the highest level, you need to assume you have about 30 minutes of ON time ... if you get more, than that's gravy ... but I would say don't assume you have more than 30 minutes before the battery needs a FULL charge.

- If you are buying a Hyperblade for dueling, then you definitely need to go with the 3-piece setup. Because of it's design, it's just simply the better choice. The boards are set-up so that even if anything does go wrong it should be something cheap and easy for Jim to fix. I recommend the 1-piece boards. The 1-piece boards can take a better beating than an MR saber, but they are still not as good as the 3-piece boards. It is my personal choice, but I leave the dueling to luxeon sabers, or any hollow blade saber.

- All Hyperblades are about 36 inches, and while I have never brought it up to Jim, I imagine he would be able to make a blade longer or shorter depending on the preference of the buyer.

- Like the old EL technology, if you want a different color you need a different blade to pop in. I currently have 3 blades, all are set up to be popped in and out when I want them. It is not as easy to swap these blades as it was EL blades. You need to pull apart the blade connector. Yoda from FX-sabers built a Graflex Hyperblade and custom built a way to just line up the blade and pop it in, similar to EL. Since then Mark has put together a custom saber for a customer and built a similar set-up making removing and replacing the blade very easy. I hope eventually this becomes a standard. Also, you are looking at $190 for each blade. I know, it's not cheap lol. Now you can see why I prefer not to duel with mine lol. Oh, and that's not including $20 for the tubing set-up. Of course, Jim will put it all together for you.

- the ignition and retraction is very good in my opinion. You have the ability to choose between 3 different speeds depending on your preference.

I don't mean to get on Novastars case. Most of what I said had nothing to with him, I was just talking to others. Novastar didn't do anything wrong in his video, he stated everything he new for sure and was honest about what he wasn't sure about. I have no problem with his video or what it shows or how he did it or anything. I would say, definitely contact Jim about repairing those blades, it may be something easy to fix. All I was trying to do was to make sure that I voiced a concern about making that Video any more fact about the brightness comparison than my video. If we are really going for some Brightness comparisons, I think a day time video would be helpful. I think the daylight is better at showing blades for what they are ... where as at night 3 Watts can look awesome. The outcome may be the same, I have no idea, but I would be more prone to be convinced of something if I saw it during the day. That's all. And no one has to make that video, I was just making the comment.

[Strydur]

Just to shed some history on 2 of those blades used in the video. The customer had tried to contact Jim to get them repaired. Here was part of his E-mail to me.



Well, they are very fragile and I don`t even swing that fast and they still break which makes it not fully functional. I have repaired it several times and basically its either my technique or method of repair that is unreliable so I would like to see if you would be willing to repair them? I can send the driver board along with the blade board to you if you are willing to try to repair them. I have tried to contact Jim and it seems he is very busy because he does not respond to my emails so that is why I`am asking you.


The 2 I worked on where the 3-peice design. I am glad to hear Hyp has moved to a 1 piece design as it should work much better.

[Marsupial]

In my opinion, the Hyperblade will look better in daylight. Simply because all the blade is a light source, and not reflecting light from a single source (plus the sun). Even in the hypothesis that the luxeon setup is brighter then the hyperblade, I can't see the daylight test show hyper as not good.

From my point of view, hyperblades are the best of the "show" blades out there - for presentation. While Luxeon are the best of the "demonstration" blades out there - for reinactment. (in the same manner, the EL is the best of the "decoration" blades, to leave in the background of a room)

but those are just my opinions on the various blades... I wouldn't want to duel with heavy blades, but could use Hyper's daylight features at several occasions during the year.

[Ghostbat]

Besides... in the end--ALL OF THESE THINGS ARE JUST A BUNCH OF TOYS. Luxeon and Hyper and FX alike. None of them solve serious problems, nor do they really "help" anyone all by themselves.


I am going to have to disagree with you on this one Nova. My cat likes to crawl up into the rafters and get "stuck" and yowl at us until we do something about it. Trying to get the little beast down is nearly impossible, he digs his claws in and pushes his body into a tight space and is unmovable without injury (his or mine).

Nothing works quite as well to poke him out of his hole like my saber. He hates the sound of it and will pop down to earth with a few gentle jabs.

None of them solve serious problems indeed!

:)

.

[Eandori]

Good info Jedibum, thanks for posting that. :)

Got a question about this part though...

- If you are buying a Hyperblade for dueling, then you definitely need to go with the 3-piece setup. Because of it's design, it's just simply the better choice. The boards are set-up so that even if anything does go wrong it should be something cheap and easy for Jim to fix. I recommend the 1-piece boards. The 1-piece boards can take a better beating than an MR saber, but they are still not as good as the 3-piece boards. It is my personal choice, but I leave the dueling to luxeon sabers, or any hollow blade saber.
Ok, so the 3 piece is better for dueling, but you prefer the 1 piece. Why is that? Is the 1 piece brighter? Lighter blade? More evenly lit?

You also said:

I would say, at the highest level, you need to assume you have about 30 minutes of ON time
That is 3x as much as I was previously hearing! 30min at setting 10 is MUCH better then 10 minutes. With a 750mAh battery pack that would probably mean the current draw is...
750(1/2)= 1500 or 1.5amps for 30 min. If that's the case, and 1.5 amps is all that's needed for brightness setting 10 then that opens up other options!

Novastar said the Hyperdyne setup allows more room in the hilt for electronics... so it seems possible that one could upgrade to a much bigger battery. The 18650 Lithium Ion cells pack a huge 2400mAh per cell at 3.7v. If you could stick 3 of those in series, you would get 11.1v and 2400mAh instead of the standard 11.1v and 750mAh. That's 3x the run time!!!!

Unless of course, the required current truely is over 1.5 amps... Then you would have to use NiMH cells or at least I would. It would take 10 NiMH cells in series to give you 12v (you might get away with 9) that's a lot of cells to pack into one saber tube.

Anyways, it might be worth your while to hook up a multimeter in series with the battery pack and power on your Hyperdyne to setting 10. If we know the ACTUAL current being used by that bad boy, you might be able to upgrade to a far better battery and lengthen your run time.

[Darth_DevilGuy]

It's essentially an "Ultra/Gelukhan" style blade, but... I fashioned it myself.

could you give some more detail on how you fashioned those flange blades? They're the most evenly lit luxeon style blades I've ever seen.

[Novastar]

could you give some more detail on how you fashioned those flange blades? They're the most evenly lit luxeon style blades I've ever seen.Holy carp, I can't even go do an acrobatic practice...
http://youtube.com/watch?v=wktUOVbpJxg
...without missing TONS of discussion over these things!

Well, I missed a lot, so gonna try to catch up. Here it go.

1. The entire amount of Hyperblade footage I shot did *NOT* fit into 10 minutes of YouTube video. That's a YOUTUBE limit, not mine. I just couldn't post the video that quickly. I have things to do every day! Soooooo the 2nd video is out there, Jedibum. It mentions the 3-sectional stuff and more. I still don't see what GIANT relevance that has on the brightness. They all seem bright to me.

2. LOL @ Ghostbat's cat!! Holy moses... nobody F's with your saber, Ghost. Not even your CAT. Not even Chuck Norris.

3. Hyperblades aren't actually bright all by themselves... Chuck Norris ***ALLOWS*** them to be bright so that we will all argue about them, and then he can come lay down Law & Order... yes, that's right... Law & Order. His left and right legs... ... ... (!!)

4. I *do* care about the battery status. That is a detail. 11.1v vs. 7.2v or 3.6v... those are fairly important concerns to LEDs, sabers, driving. Unless I'm just... like... high.

5. People are free to make their own COMMENTS. :) Decisions too.

6. The devil is in the details. I am pretty sure I had a bunch of colored text appear before all of the test shots telling voltage, LED, driver, blade style, etc. I even mentioned that the best comparative Luxeon LED color vs the Hyper Blue graflex one... had an MR diffuser with no mirrored tip. That is just how it worked out so far, as I still haven't made enough bloody blades for 15+ sabers. Was that not enough sabers for you? Screw that. Anyhow... I even mentioned/adjusted the Hyperblade settings from 1 to 3 to 5 to 10, etc. in many cases.

Sure, I missed several things, such as... I didn't use any Corbin film... and I'm 95% sure none of the Luxeons I showed had thick-walled blades. What else... I didn't mention the exact blade length of every Luxeon blade... and... I don't even think I mentioned what nylons I was wearing, nor what style of thong. I know I must have missed something else, like mentioning what time it was when I recorded the video and when I actually removed my nylons and used them as diffuser film in the Hyperblade... but... well, I best do better next time.

7. I had no idea you could choose 3 different blade ignition/retraction speeds. If I can set that up, I'll try. If it's a newer version thing, well... I can't test it. Besides, I don't have any instructions, I'm just figuring things out as I go. Novastar === NOT a Hyperblade expert. I think that goes without saying.

FINALLY, speaking of the devil in the details...

***DARTH_DEVIL_GUY...
I just get a bunch of gift wrap (certain type), get jiggy with it and roll it on up... shove it in the tube, and there you have it.

Granted... it's ..... ... SLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLIGHTLY more involved than that, but... don't credit me with the blade evenness... that is thanks to Erv's driver, Gelukhan's ideas from some time ago (Ultra implemented this into his blades as far as I know), and just light diffusion in general.

[Hasid Lafre]

Nova I must say you are prolly the most out there persion I have ever seen.

Have you ever done any comedian work in your life at all?

I saw the video of the CF board spegitty and I just laughed at your reactions of the whole thing.

[Obi-Dar Ke-Gnomie]

I don't even think I mentioned what nylons I was wearing, nor what style of thong.

Are you going to post a video comparing your nylons? Now that would be something to see!


I just get a bunch of gift wrap (certain type), get jiggy with it and roll it on up... shove it in the tube, and there you have it.

We all want to see that video too!

[Novastar]

We all want to see that video too!Clearly, you haven't seen BOP I or BOP II... ;)

Just kidding.

[Marsupial]

I just get a bunch of gift wrap (certain type), get jiggy with it and roll it on up... shove it in the tube, and there you have it.


Its my b-day this week. Can I get some giftwarp?

[Hasid Lafre]

gift warp? sounds like fun

[Obi-Dar Ke-Gnomie]

*Obi-Dar breaks into song*

"Let's do the gift warp dance!"

Novastar,
Dude, I just had a great idea! You should do BOP III as a musical!

You could call it "Balance of Power Three - The Rocky Horror Saber Show".

I dunno. Maybe not...

[Hasid Lafre]

that was one of the greatest movies ever. never got the recagnition it should of

[Eandori]

The Rocky Horror Picture Show? I don't know. I'm both disgusted and intrigued by it at the same time. I definitely have other movies I would rather watch first, but it's fun to quote with people who love it.

I would be curious to find out a few things...
1. Of all the users who bought into the Hyperdyne setup, how many of them duel with it and still have it working 100%?
2. What does Jim charge for repairing your Hyperdyne setup?

[DACOTA]

Thats great Nova! I like the look of the hyper blade but I dont believe it is as dual worthy as a saber with a hollow poly-c blade. As for brightness it looks like its pretty much the same as a k2 so its pretty good but not the best, in the case that they are the same brightness I would rather sacrafice the full eveness of the hyper blade for the dual ability of the tcss blades with a luxeon.

Pretty cool though!

[Novastar]

For the record, I think that a Hyperdyne vs. a THIN-walled blade Luxeon style saber for dueling would probably be just fine for quite a long time. More tests on that later, but... I'm sure it would be fine.

As to vs. a THICK-WALLED blade (which is more in the Hyper blade's weight class)... it doesn't look good.

But hey... tests still need to be made.

I dunno though... since the Graflex hilt fell apart like you guys saw, the sound isn't working in the Graflex one, and the green saber's batteries smoked and died. First Li-Ion pack I've ever seen to do that. Either the PCB became damaged or it was altered. I don't know. It is what it is.

[Novastar]

Oh btw all... I am sending these Hyperdyne sabers off to Eandori (Edwin) since he knows WAAAAAY more about electronics than myself. As would be expected, his career *IS* in electronics! heheh

Anyhow, Edwin's been a great help to me over the past months, and so I wanted him to be able to mess around with these and find out more info if he wished to share it.

Where they go from there is still TBD... I really have no use for them, and although they are neat and bright... they are far too unwieldy and unbalanced for staged combat of a high-speed nature.

If we find a way to restore them into a good condition, I may just request that Edwin sell them on ebay, or we do SOMEthing with them. Get them into the hands of someone who could put the H-blades to good use for THEIR purposes. :)

[DACOTA]

Ooh I want em. Maybe.;)

[Eandori]

I'm pretty excited to see those things in person and do some testing. I'll have to speak with other Hyperdyne users and hopefully Jim Shima to make sure I'm doing everything properly. But I'll do lots of inspection and testing before that as well :)

My 2 new custom TCSS+Plecter sabers are nearly done now. I'll be doing comparisons with those but I won't do any durability testing. That should be done as a last step when we are ready to damage stuff. They are not my sabers for keeps so I'll just stick to testing out light, inspecting circuits, measuring current/voltage, seeing if I can improve anything.