Need a little help... (501st and RL stuff)

[Novastar]

Well, I've posted this topic over at the Rebel Legion site... trying to "re-open" the dialogue that started way back in 2006 with the local 501st chapter. As far as I know, we introduced many of them to Luxeon sabers--in the sense that... well, for many, it was the first time they saw them I think.

http://rebellegion.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10275

Anyone have any thoughts? Should I bother with this whole 501st/Rebel Legion thing? So far, I haven't really gotten any "warm welcomes" from a lot of folks there (with exception to Eva Vanacek, Angelica... Scott Simpson & his wife and a few others). And I am ONLY talking about people I have met in person...

Most provide sources of "inaction"... in other words--they tell me how things CAN'T be done. Well, to my own discredit I'm not looking for those kinds of people. I AM looking for people who look for ways that things CAN be possible. Because certainly... they ARE. :)

If BOP I & II (and III soon I hope) are possible with a bunch of ragtag volunteers and a budget you can fit in a soda pop can... and if some jerkweed like myself can go from knowing NOTHING about electronics--to actually HELPING others and wiring up some decent stuff...

....then praytell, what in the WORLD prevents folks from Rebel Legion and the 501st from working on some kind of diplomacy; some avenues to help things work?? :D I have no idea. I'm probably too confrontational... heheh! Who, me?!! Confrontational?!! What do you mean by THAT?!!! ;)

I am only ONE man.
"I am NOT a committee!" --Leia :)

[Alai Sadu]

I think BOP project is great and even greater thanks to the charity you all made with it. BUT it's true that such thing go against 501st/RL rules, even if i'm sure some of them really understood the value of the project they are in fact restricted by their rules...

or their enormous ego...

did i said the ego thing aloud? ups...^^

[Hasid Lafre]

I say do things your own way. Your project is the first of its kind and its different.

RL/501st are scared of different,I have noticed recently that the rl is starting to get the same nose in the air that the 501st has.

IAm gonna forget about joining the costuming groups and just do it my way.

So keep doing your thing your way and thoes of us and others will appreciate all the great things you do for us. Weather it be your knolage of eletronics and that sort and your works as a performer.

See heres the thing too. to me you kinda fall in teh same area as the folks of nyjedi who use led sabers for there stage performances and they get the same not so warm welcome from folks at the RL.

http://rebellegion.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10232

The link in the first post is to some pics of flynn at nyjedi. One guy was wondering if it would be possable for something like that to be accepted. well it cant be cause its not starwars charater which I cna understand to a point.

But then krash says this.

but what they consider a SW costume and what gets RL and 501st known as the premiere SW costuming groups in the world are parsecs apart...and should stay that way.

To me that says there not that open hearted about other costumers. They only care for themselves.

Screw costuming groupes.

[ArkaiHalon]

just my 2 pennies.

501st and RL are both groups focusing on costumes.
Their charter requires dedication to "canon" depictions of the star wars universe as seen in officially licensed media. If it is not, it is not acceptable for use under their banner. This allows them to
operate with the blessing of the Empire.

As BOP is not canon, with canon charactors, or a canon story, it violates their charter, and thus can not be endorsed by them or they may displease the Empire.

That does not mean that BOP doesn't kick major butt. In fact, I find BOP to be inspiring in it's own right.

But it's two sides of the spectrum. The Canon side is fine and dandy, and got the whole ball rolling. But "fandom" is where the EU sprouted from, and gives us much more fun, cause we get amber lightsabers.


So keep up the good work, and don't worry to much about those that can't help.

[Hasid Lafre]

Yep I agree. Keep kicking butt.

Hay if you were ever to make it to the nebraska side of the planet I would love to help you out in anyway, an iam sure my bro would want to jump in on it to.

[Jay-gon Jinn]

There have been members of the 501st and the Rebel Legion that have participated in Star Wars fan-films, which isn't all that different from what you are doing with BOP. As long as you aren't profiting from it, I don't see the problem with it. That would be a violation of the costuming clubs' charters....we are not allowed to make personal profit from appearances in our costumes.

[LAN-ED-TUL]

well there is one group im in called the 327thstarcorps. you dont have to have a cannon costume if you dont want to. i like that group mainly cuz you dont even have to have a costume to join, it can be a WIP and you can still join up.

its a nice bunch of folks there.

[Novastar]

Thanks guys... all of this helps.

For the record (and for probably the HUNDRETH time)... BOP never has made ANY kind of profit whatsoever. I guess I'm saying this for those who haven't read about my projects, looked at the credits on the projects, or whatever.

NO PROFIT HAS EVER BEEN MADE ON BOP STUFF. In fact, it's cost *ME* many thousands. I have the receipts to prove it. If I wanted to do this for the money... well... I wouldn't have done it in the first place.

Besides, read the charter:
Article VI Code of Conduct

2. Members must never use their costumes for any profit-making endeavor (personal, political, or religious), other than those related to or affiliated with the Star Wars franchise.

They simply say you can't use your costume to make profit OTHER than those related to or affiliated with the Star Wars franchise.

1. I don't teach my fencing classes "in costume". What the pluck????!?!?! That would be stupid anyhow. Why would I do that. Yet, they keep on my case about this "violation" garbage. It's a bunch of circular rhetoric.

2. I'm not a member.

3. I don't have a "canon" costume, so I couldn't become a member even if I wanted to.

4. (See below)... I am not a "saber school". People who think they specifically "know" what I do need to check themselves and get their facts correct.

Check this out:

---------------------------------------------------
Hi Matt,

I'm happy you found our Rebel Legion forums. I think it is a fine place to let people know about your Balance of Power performances.

Since we do have to be really careful about not using Rebel Legion (or Star Wars) to promote other businesses, I checked with the XO of Rebel Legion and she said that it's OK to link to your performance videos in your sig file, but not to the Cutting Edge. So if you can remove the link to the Cutting Edge Sabre school in your signature file that would be great. She did say it would be OK to have a link to the Cutting Edge in your profile under the www option Smile So it's not so bad Wink

- Kathy
----------------------------------------

It's just an insult in general for them to even HINT to pretending that I can somehow teach fencing classes OVER THE INTERNET or draw profit and business from all over the world via a link to my website for classes... that occur in ONE SMALL AREA of CA.... via ONE or TWO ridiculous posts that will never be seen on that ridiculously complex forum at RL.

It's also obvious they never even checked to see what my business was all about. I could understand if I was selling things worldwide. Whatever.

Besides, the performance videos probably have a link to my website somewhere. So why would they allow THAT??! I don't get it. Maybe I'm applying logic. Oops! Forget logic. I don't know... I'm a little too busy with stuff to worry about a string of http characters and "where I am allowed" to post them.

LOL. What do you folks think? Enough insanity for you yet? Is it all *ME* being unreasonable???!!

I noticed Tim never accosted me for posting a link to my site. Oh wait, he's not a costuming group. :)

Screw this. Life is too short to be messing with hyperlink Nazis. I'm done with the RL/501st stuff, for Pete's sake.

[Ghostbat]

I would strongly recommend just letting them do their thing and not worrying too much about it.

They are a large group which by it's very nature breeds rules and regulations, dealing with that when you are trying to do something a bit out of their focus is going to get resistance from the system. It's natural in any large group dynamic and here's a very large group dancing under the watchful eye of Lucasfilms legal department, which is not known for it's sense of humor or mercy.

They have a right to be a little twitchy, they are trying to keep the fun going for a lot of people in an arena that could easily be taken away from them.

Personally I avoid costuming groups, or any other group really, that focuses on reproduction, period pieces, or similar rigid guidelines of what is or is not allowed. They tend to a rigidity I find stifling.

Plus I personally feel that to reproduce someone else's prop or costume means someone else got half the fun :)

Note: I don't want to belittle people who do recreation, I understand and appreciate the time, skill, and devotion that goes into a screen accurate reproduction and if I were not such a designer at heart (and maybe a better craftsman) I could really get into that. But making my own stuff is my thing so that's where I am coming from.

[pod1138]

nova
i agree with ghostbat on this 1
when i approched the 501st i got given the cold sholder
RL was a little better
i got banned by 501st spec ops caz i pointed out where there rules was letting them down
KOTE are better for casting
but ive got 1 or 2 other links if you need it

gaz

[xwingband]

501st and RL are rather paranoid. I wouldn't let it bother you... I've had my own link removed from posts.

Basically, I'd just let them know you exist and then do with it whatever they want. No use worrying...

[Angelus Lupus]

All you need to do is get a SW author to pen a book based on BOP, then it'll be cannon, problem solved :D

Hey, my idea is only slightly crazier than most.

[Novastar]

There is no reason to post there for me anyhow, it seems.

[defyitall]

I'm not gonna get into a whole huge thing since I don't fully understand the problem and I don't want to seem like I am telling anyone what they should be doing or thinking.

As a very active member of the Rebel Legion and a Legion Costume Judge for Smugglers I am a little "in" over there; you could say. I can't say I understand the entire inner workings but I know a little.

I know this much, the RL and 501st are paranoid for a good reason. Anyone into SW knows how over zealous and protective LFL lawyers are. Cmon, you guys you've heard the stories of how quickly they send C&D's to people making prop replicas in any type of large capacity. You may know about the AA Trooper armor debacle. They guard that "legacy of cash" pretty tightly.

That being said, I understand that there are some people who don't agree with the Legion's practices regarding costume standards and submissions. And that's fine. We all love Star Wars and we can all do whatever we want.

I don't know if it can be argued that the Legions don't do a lot of good stuff for kids in this world. I know sometimes it comes across as a bunch of elitist costumers hanging out together at Cons. Sometimes it is that. People tend to remember the bad people. All i can say is that in the last year I have had a chance to bring a lot of smiles to kids faces in a lot of different capacities. I have been able to take a hobby and use that to help a lot of charities raise a lot of money.

Here's the kicker:

We have to play LFL's game in order to do the charity work we do and use their logos in banners and stuff. It sucks, yes. But we get to do a lot of awesome stuff for sick kids and good organizations. Sometimes it feels a little like bending over and taking it to keep in Lucas' good graces. But it's necessary to continue what we do.

[Ghostbat]

There is no reason to post there for me anyhow, it seems.

Quite possibly true :)

I never post there, I just watch and hunt through it for costume info. Since their board is very much for them to do their thing and I am not typically doing their thing I appreciate what they do for what they do and stay at arms length from the bureaucracy of it.

[Novastar]

I don't know if it can be argued that the Legions don't do a lot of good stuff for kids in this world. I know sometimes it comes across as a bunch of elitist costumers hanging out together at Cons. Sometimes it is that. People tend to remember the bad people. All i can say is that in the last year I have had a chance to bring a lot of smiles to kids faces in a lot of different capacities. I have been able to take a hobby and use that to help a lot of charities raise a lot of money.Yup, that is basically what I'd like to do, but... I'm only ONE man.

I was hoping to get some help from people FROM the RL or 501st (not necessarily "bind" with them like the freakin' vulcan mind meld or something arse like that)... but... NO.

All I keep hearing (over the last TWO years) is Article blah, article blah, violation, violation, you're making profit, you're making profit, etc. etc.

Which clearly shows me that if I want to find ways to contribute to children and charities in a large fashion... well... that is exactly what *I* will have to do. Alone. As usual. But it's pretty tough, since all human beings have a limited capacity on their own. I cannot be in 12 places at once, and I can barely do all 10+ jobs I need to do for the project.

That being said, it's my own fault. *I* wanted to put BOP together. No one told me they'd help it out, nor did I expect anyone to do so. :)

Thanks for everyone's comments! I move that we forget about my silly topic and go on to holiday cheer and other things! :) :D

[defyitall]

Sounds good dude. Sometimes you gotta go it alone and it makes the ending a little sweeter.

I think BOP is awesome even as an RL member.