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Mitji
10-15-2007, 07:40 PM
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Hi, everyone. I'm a costumer and prop builder, and I'm gearing up to work on a new project: Darth Talon from the Legacy comic series.

For the past few years I've been carrying a bladeless saber prop when I costume at events and conventions. I made it from sink parts and a couple drawer pulls. It's nice to be able to clip the hilt onto my belt and not have to worry about a blade... but whenever I pose for pictures, it always looks pretty silly until I go back and Photoshop in a saber blade!

http://chucrew.com/Photos/PamsToy.jpg

http://chucrew.com/Photos/CIV/PamDougSaber.jpg


For my Darth Talon costume, I want to go the extra mile and put an EL or LED blade on my saber. The saber hilt will be sculpted in oil clay, molded, cast in resin, and then antiqued to make the raised patterns really stand out. I have to do all of this because Talon's hilt is a very unique design:

http://chucrew.com/Talon/TalonSaber.jpg


And now, my reason for posting on this forum:

I have started researching options for the blade and inner workings of my Darth Talon lightsaber, and I would like very much to hear some input and suggestions from the folks who know a lot more about sabers than I do! I'm good at prop building, but I'm a novice when it comes to electronics! In other words, I know how to make the hilt... but I'm not sure of what to put inside it!


Would anyone out there like to offer some suggestions, advice, or general know-how for this project?

Please keep in mind that I'm not looking for suggestions on how to make something fast, cheap, or easy. I don't work that way! Instead, I'm looking for high quality and results that I will be proud of when the project is finished.... and I do love a good challenge! One of my main concerns is the size of the hilt. My current sink-pipe saber is a good size for a female's hands. My husband's modular LED saber, however, is considerably larger. If I were to add the sculpted design on top of that diameter, the saber would look much too large for me. I prefer LED sabers over EL, but I'm not sure if an LED setup could fit in a smaller hilt.

(I am somewhat familiar with the different types of sabers. I have an Anakin FX, while my husband has two LED sabers, one of which is designed from the modular hilt system on this site. We also have an EL saber, which has a much smaller blade... but an annoying high pitched noise!)


Pam :-)

Lord Maul
10-15-2007, 07:49 PM
Depending on the OD and ID of that saber you have, you could make it into a LED saber. If it is a 1.25 inch sinktube, then simply use the blade holder for 1.25 sink tubes sold in the store to make it functional. You would lose the fancy neck curves, but the basic hilt would stay the same.

xwingband
10-15-2007, 08:20 PM
Ooo... so this is you? http://www.danzfamily.com/archives/blogphotos/starwars/C4-441-darth-talon.jpg

Or are you the other one that has the talon costume that goes full out body paint?

Either way... those drawing look MADE to be a Luxeon saber! They've got the flare and all. Looks like the illustrator even drew in a PolyC blade! :lol:

Now the nitty gritty... Lord Maul is correct to ask the space you are working with. If you can base it around a pipe that will save you headaches because you can use off the shelf components for here pretty easily.

If push comes to shove you can make a 3/4" blade also. That will really drop your diameter though. It would require more work but it's doable... and I like your attitude that you don't want to do it half baked.

So in my mind if diameter is your biggest concern... go to a 3/4" blade. With a good style diffuser it will still spank EL in terms of brightness. Then I'm not sure how you want to go electronics wise. If you just want on/off a 3V setup with a CR123 is piss ant small. I did that on my Sidious saber (here (http://www.incomsabers.com/images/sidious.jpg)) which had like 4" of space for my electronics.

neophyl
10-16-2007, 12:33 AM
HIya Pam, nice to see another Eclipse member over here :)

ID suggest going with an led based blade, they are much brighter than the older EL style.

With Talons hilt size/style fitting sound in would be difficult (not impossible) but if you go for just the light up blade you can get some very small very good luxeon drivers. Ive had good success with the Konlux range as thye are VERY small (about an inch square and about 1/8" high. A proper diver takes all the hassle out of driving the led properly and increases the running time over using a simple resistor.

Another suggestion would be to use some thin walled 1.25" tube as a basis for the sabre. This would give you the width to fit stuff in and would also allow you to use the shops blade holder too for ease of construction. Then you can sculpt your master around a identical tube, mold it and cast then slide it over the sabre. This will give you the strength of the metal inner but with all the detailing you want. It also shouldnt be too wide for you even with the sculpting.

On the more electrical side of things fitting a rechargeable battery pack inside with a charge port is always a good idea as it means you dont have to dismantle the sabre to change batteries.

Phil
(SL7540)

Darth Lars
10-16-2007, 01:44 PM
I am not sure, but I would believe that Darth Talon's lightsaber could have been based on this one (http://www.paralada.org/Estonia_self/Estonia_htm/SWgeekhtm/cE26.html). I have not seen it confirmed, though.
It was made by Thomas Spanos, aka The Clone Emperor for his Clone Emperor costume. It was cast in metal, bored out and an EL driver was installed.

Btw. Legacy cartoon artist Jan Duursema based the Imperial Knight Ganner Krieg on his likeness. He has of course made that costume also.

xwingband
10-16-2007, 01:53 PM
I am not sure, but I would believe that Darth Talon's lightsaber could have been based on this one (http://www.paralada.org/Estonia_self/Estonia_htm/SWgeekhtm/cE26.html) by Thomas J. Spanos, aka The Clone Emperor for his Clone Emperor costume. It was cast in metal, bored out and an EL driver was installed.

Btw. He has met Legacy cartoon artist Jan Duursema many times, and she (also?) based the Imperial Knight Ganner Krieg on his likeness. He has of course made that costume also.

Entirely possible. I noticed the likeness too.

It is rather well known she likes the fans and I believe the Quilian Vos Pam posted herself with was used for the comic likeness. Overall I think it's cool to be known as a top notch costumer that does that character... like Gil as Porkins, etc...

Dregan
10-17-2007, 06:08 AM
Since you're going to resin-cast the final 'shell' you have more options than a sinktube.

First, you need to consider what battery/driver setup you're using. I practically preach the benefit of the 18650 Li-Po or Li-Ion batteries. From there you need a driver, and since a red LuxIII wants 1.5 amps, I'd go with a 1400 mAh driver from Dealextreme.com (http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.1886) - they are a bit of a PITA to solder in correctly, but once you're done, you get a 17mm wide driver, which fits very nicely with your 18mm wide battery. This can all fit inside a small tube for casting purposes. I used a leftover nylon blade diffuser (http://www.thecustomsabershop.com/pc-639-15-40-led-blade-diffuser.aspx) , which left me about 1mm of clearance, but you could use PVC, PC, whatever. From there you can hide your switch and recharge port anywhere along the molded saber body you'd like to.

After that, get Tim's LED/Blade holder (http://www.thecustomsabershop.com/pc-890-22-125-sink-tube-ledblade-holder.aspx) that we use in a lot of custom pieces, and include that and your battery/driver tube in your original molding. Add a LuxIII Red and a switch and a recharge port and a little wire, and you're done.

Staying away from the sinktube/AAA battery setup will let you have a much smaller interior diameter, which means that after you're done adding your shell you get a 'normal' feeling hilt in your hand, and not one that feels like the thick end of a baseball bat. I found that out the hard war.

I've done a project very similar to this in the past, and am actually working with a friend for another one currently. If you want some more pointers, feel free to PM me.

Jedi-Loreen
10-17-2007, 09:19 AM
Hi Pam. Nice to see another female on the boards. I love your Mara Jade costume, and your other Twi'leks. I havne't seen your Darth Talon before.

I believe that photo of the Darth Talon with the body suit is Summer Wermo from the TF.N boards.

Mitji
10-20-2007, 12:43 PM
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Hello again, everyone.

Wow... what a great response! I debated posting here for quite a while, and now I'm glad that I finally got up the nerve to do so. My thanks to every one of you for posting your thoughts and suggestions. I was feeling rather overwhelmed on where to start with this saber project.... but now that I have some ideas and hilt components to focus my research on, this project is starting to feel like something I really can accomplish. I'm looking forward to learning about how all of this will come together into what I'm certain will be the coolest prop I've ever made!

I'm just now gearing up to make a Talon costume, so there are no pictures of me with that one yet. I've been costuming as a Twi'lek for years, but always as a green or blue character. The two best-known Darth Talon costumers are Summer with her bodysuit version, and Courtney with her skimpy one. Mine won't be finished until next summer, since I'm aiming to make it as accurate as possible to the reference images, and that takes a surprising amount of time. I have most of the supplies I need for the costume itself, now it's just a matter of assembling everything (and keeping up with my intensified gym schedule for the next few months!)

Thanks again,

Pam :-)

Mitji
09-20-2008, 09:47 AM
Hi, folks!

I got a bit of friendly ribbing for not posting progress pics of my Talon saber. It's all wired and sculpted, but I still haven't gotten around to painting it yet. Too many things keep happening "in real life" to give me enough time to play with my toys!

I used a 1.25" sink pipe and blade holder, a Lux III red LED, a Li-Ion 18650 rechargeable battery, and a resistor. I was a bit worried that the resistor might build up too much heat in the enclosed pipe... but there isn't much that it needs to burn off, and the hilt doesn't get hot at all. I made two blades, one with corbin film, and one with clear cellophane inside. I actually like that one better, since it lights evenly down the length of the blade. The switch doesn't show up in this picture, but I took a square soft-touch switch and dremeled the corners off of it, and then built it up to a rounded shape with the sculpting putty so that it could be inset and made part of the scultped design as much as possible. The recharge port is in line with the switch, and is set flush against the sculpt.

The hilt, as expected, came out a little heavier than I wanted it to because of the sculpting material on top. It isn't bad at all, but I like things to be very lightweight (wimpy girl hands!), so I'm still planning to make a mold and cast a new saber shell in a lightweight resin sometime.


http://chucrew.com/Talon/TalonSaberRough.jpg


With the corbin film, before I sculpted the hilt...

http://chucrew.com/Talon/Saber.jpg




Couldn't have done this without your help, Novastar and Dregan! Thanks!


Pam :-)

ArkaiHalon
09-20-2008, 10:06 AM
WOW

not much else to say

Darth Leximus
09-20-2008, 10:40 AM
That saber is gorgeous, I'm planning a sculpted saber hilt pretty soon and I would be ecstatic if it came out half that nice.

So when do we get to see the full ensemble?? There aren't many good Darth Talon's out there and if you put the same effort into the costume as you did the saber I'm sure it will be fantastic.

Mcich
09-20-2008, 12:02 PM
you did a fantastic job there Pam, the saber looks so very organic :)

kinchar bamin
09-20-2008, 12:41 PM
WANT!!! now all metallic sabers look borin to meh!!! Must have MOAR OIL CLAY!!!! yep i think i might make my 2nd custom saber out of oil clay and resin, if my parents let me make a 2nd one dat is...

MaverickJsmith
09-20-2008, 12:42 PM
Indeed. It will be good to see it finished. Keep it up :wink:

Maverick

DDanDevious
09-20-2008, 03:10 PM
Siiiiiiiiiiiiick... now get it painted!

DDD

annon
09-20-2008, 05:45 PM
That is, hands down, the best sculpted saber I've ever seen. You're very talented, and should be proud.:D

LeMoel
09-20-2008, 06:20 PM
thats a really swweet saber, is that clay or expoxy putty??? or wat?

Mitji
09-22-2008, 09:57 PM
Wow.... thanks for the kudos, everyone. This was my first time doing the electronics in a saber, and my first time sculpting the hilt for one, and it was a learning experience on both counts. I've really had a lot of fun with this saber project, and I too am looking forward to seeing how it will look when it's all finished. As for the rest of the Talon costume... I'm still working on it, bit by bit. It's a complicated outfit, especially with all of the leather work and lekku, and the need to make stencils for all of the tattoos... and I am admittedly slow as molassass when I'm working on my costumes!

My original plan had been to do the saber hilt sculpting in oil clay and then make a mold from that, but I decided to give sculpting putty a try instead. I used silver Apoxy sculpt, which isn't all that silver or all that metallic... but it's still a good base. It's tedious work because you have to mix up small amounts of putty and keep blending new putty into already cured parts of the design, but once it cures, that is some really tough stuff!

Pam :-)

MoonDragn
09-23-2008, 08:14 AM
Isn't it amazing when we guys make sabers, it looks great... Up until a girl shows up and totally flattens us with her artistic ability LOL.

Darth Leximus
09-23-2008, 10:18 AM
May I ask which method you use for making your lekku?? My wife is interested in a darth talon costume after she gives birth to our new baby, so I've got some time to work on it and I want it to be awesome! I've seen your other twileks and your lekku always look fantastic so I thought I'd go to best for some recomendations.

Treadingwolf
09-24-2008, 02:42 PM
HOT DAMN! i can't believe i didn't see this until today. You have done an outstanding job Mitji :)
I might start taking pointers from you for my next Apoxy saber :)
I can't say it enough, its beautiful.

Winter Moonshadow
09-24-2008, 03:46 PM
Hey Lex, If you haven't yet check out her site. And Mitji I love the saber. After seeing that and your site I can tell you are truely devoted to your craft. Keep up the good work and I can't wait to see your Darth Talon.

Lord Dottore Matto
09-24-2008, 04:19 PM
A+ work! It is obvious that you are very meticulous and patient. I LOVE it!:p:p:p

Mitji
09-25-2008, 11:06 PM
Thank you again, everyone. Your encouragement is greatly appreciated. I think I need to refrain from posting any more in-progress pictures until I have a day when I'm feeling down and need a pick-me-up! Just post a few pictures here, and I'll be cheered right up! :-D


I make my lekku with mask latex. It's a time consuming process, but definitely worth the effort! I have a lot of fun making them now that I know what in the world I'm doing. It was a royal pain when I was first starting out and didn't know how to cast in latex. I talked about how I make them on my website, if that might help you any. Just click on the link that says "Latex Lekku."

http://members.aol.com/Mitji/Twilek.htm


Pam :-)

Darth Leximus
09-26-2008, 07:37 AM
Thanks Pam, I actually spent a good amount of time on your site yesterday because I was lurking on the flagship eclipse forums for quite a while. Thanks again.

MoonDragn
09-26-2008, 08:28 AM
Wow that black latex Mara Jade outfit looks awesome on you.

Mitji
12-27-2008, 09:43 PM
Hi, everyone.

I finally finished sculpting and painting my Darth Talon saber, so I thought I'd share how it turned out. This was a fun project, and I'm definitely planning to make another saber from scratch sometime in the near future...


http://chucrew.com/Talon/TalonSaberTrio.jpg


Pam :-)

Hasid Lafre
12-27-2008, 09:45 PM
Looks awsome!

B5813
12-27-2008, 11:06 PM
You nailed that picture... exact copy of it. I'm not really a fan of organic or styles outside of the industrial looking metal types but yours is quite attractive.

Goodman
12-28-2008, 12:20 AM
Stunning work, Pam.

May I ask you to please elaborate on the "silver Apoxy" you said you used?

I'm planning using a two part sculpting epoxy to add detail over a traditional metal shaft, but am concerned that it won't have the tensile strength to bond to the metal in thin strips. Obviously, with your Talon design the epoxy covers the entirety of the metal tube below and so there is nothing to "fleck off". In your experience, how tough would you say the epoxy bond would be in this instance where it only partially covers the tube?

'Can't wait to see your finished costume!

Mcich
12-28-2008, 01:35 AM
yet again breath taking work Pam, it's good to see her finished :D you must be really happy with how she worked out!

Darth_DevilGuy
12-28-2008, 01:37 AM
very cool

Novastar
12-28-2008, 01:47 AM
Looks great Pam... are you going to put the electronics into it? :)


Hi, everyone.

I finally finished sculpting and painting my Darth Talon saber, so I thought I'd share how it turned out. This was a fun project, and I'm definitely planning to make another saber from scratch sometime in the near future...


http://chucrew.com/Talon/TalonSaberTrio.jpg


Pam :-)

Jedi-Loreen
12-28-2008, 02:01 AM
Looks great Pam... are you going to put the electronics into it? :)

Uh, Nova, go check out page 1 of this thread. ;)

gundamaniac
12-28-2008, 03:24 AM
That is some amazingly intricate work. I know how difficult it is to work with Apoxie Sculpt and I am not very good at it...so I can appreciate the sheer amount of sculpting skill and patience you have to work with the stuff! Great great job.



May I ask you to please elaborate on the "silver Apoxy" you said you used?


The "silver Apoxy" is a two-part non-toxic sculpting epoxy called "Apoxie Sculpt". You have approximately a 3-hour working time, with the first hour being when the Apoxie is stickiest and most likely to bond to surfaces, the second hour being when the Apoxie is more clay-like and moldable (ie, not too squishy), and the third hour being when the Apoxie begins to set up and harden and you can do some detail work like carving. The Apoxie sets and cures in 24 hours. Afterwards, it can be sanded, painted, drilled, etc. It does stick to materials (again, the first hour is when it is stickiest), and it is very hard and durable.

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w57/DarthVaedr/Obi%20Wan%20Tribute/IMG_1413Small.jpg
The lightsaber on the top is an MHS/sinktube saber. It has an extremely thin (and rough) coating of Apoxie Sculpt that has worn down over time (ie, it has managed to hold up over a year and a half of being dropped, thrown, and bashed around), but you can see that it is still intact. In fact, every bit of black that you see on that lightsaber is Apoxie Sculpt (well...except for the activation button and Covertec button).

And the pommel of the newer aluminum/sinktube saber (the hilt on the bottom) is also Apoxie Sculpt. Again...that would be the bits of black in that picture.

So in a nutshell...Apoxie will definitely bond to metal very well, and it is very durable. It's just a bit of a pain to work with. Again, absolutely killer work on your hilt Mitji! It's nice to see such great sculpting talent brought to a lightsaber hilt, especially since sculpted and/or "organic" hilts are very rare.

Goodman
12-28-2008, 03:50 PM
Thanks gundamaniac, that was very informative. Your sculpts look very impressive also, as I imagine those straight lines are tough to come by!

I'll Google "Apoxie Sculpt" and go from there with planning my build.

Sairon
12-28-2008, 03:52 PM
there is a specific place called avess studios that selles it http://www.avesstudio.com/Products/Apoxie_Sculpt/apoxie_sculpt.html