Hyperdyne blades

[Maliki Skywalker]

Just wondering about them are they brighter then the lux's and are they removable? are they compatible with MHS sabers?

Thanks :D

[Hasid Lafre]

Brightness wize, Ervs telum saber with a k2 green driven at 1.5A will hold its own agenst a hyper blade.

The blade is not removable but if you got the time and actually want to do it theres a way to make it removable with a din style plug but they guy that did that conversion said he prolly would never do it again.

It could be compatable with th emhs its just a glorifyied mr saber.

But for the money go with ervs crystal focus saber core. aka buttered toast, set it up for a k2 and you got millions of options instead of hypers like what 10 options.

That and its just like an mr. lots of small leds in the blade. not very duelable at all, and the battery life on a hyper syetup reallys sucks. like erv can get something like what 2 hours out of his telum. the hyper blades dont last no more than an hour or hour and a half.

Becides hypers stuff is outdated and he dosent even post on his forum at fxsabers. Nothings been heard from him in a dogs age.

[Novastar]

I don't know about the Hyperblades, but since Hasid mentioned battery life, I am able to consistently get 3.5+ hours life out of each of my v1.2 CF boards.

They run on 7.2 or 7.4v Li-Ion, 18650 cells which are rated at 2400mah or 2600mah (I can't quite remember which saber has what). Each are "spitting out" 1.3A at LEDs that are most ideal at 1.5A (so they are being slightly under-driven, but nothing too awful).

Keep in mind, I altered the "blade flicker" options on Erv's board to essentially have the board draw less power when lighting the LEDs overall... since it is effectively "going on and off" super fast.

I imagine that if I ran the boards as a "solid" blade with no "flickery-ness stuff"... they would not run so long.

But finally... these are his OLDER board versions (v1.2). Much has changed from v1 to v2.x. Much!

[killphil]

Brightness wize, Ervs telum saber with a k2 green driven at 1.5A will hold its own agenst a hyper blade.

See, this I don't know about. Erv's Telus is very bright, no doubt, but it is still a K2, and a K2 is still not as bright as a Lux V, which in turn, is still not on par with the brightness of the Hyperblades.

I love Erv's stuff, but I don't think there is anything single LED(saberwise)that can compare to Hyper's stuff brightnesswise at the moment.


But finally... these are his OLDER board versions (v1.2). Much has changed from v1 to v2.x. Much!

So do you mean that battery life would be diminished with the added upgrades to the new boards or prolonged?

[xwingband]

Nothing can beat hyperblades for brightness... at the same time I've never had someone tell me a Luxeon was weak. All the time I get "Man, that's bright and loud".

It can be made removable, but as Hasid said it's not a great solution. A DIN pug is not symmetrical so the blade has to be inserted a certain way.

So there are benefits and downsides...

Benefits:
Bright
Scrolling is more of the expected

Downsides:
EXPENSIVE
Removable blade is harder
Blade is not doing to stand up to as much as a Lux
Battery life sucks (I've heard at the max brightness it is like 15min, and a low level is like 1 hour)
Sound sucks (look at the videos... it's loud but crappy. Play a sound, pause, play another sound)

[Maliki Skywalker]

Thanks guys, but i'm sticking with xwing :D

[Hasid Lafre]

http://img95.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bladepictsgn5.jpg

I would sure love to see a comparasin pic with a k2 and a 5W next to that hyper blade. cause as it stands they over exposed the pic.

But as it stands Iam sure theres some kinda magic film out there that will let a lowly 3w lux match up agenst a hyper blade.

The way I see it. with a lux it dosent matter about the ratings its about how well you can capture and reflect the light thru the film.

I would like to see how ultras film on a 5w would look agenst that hyper blade.

I still think that the luxeons are a better choice for many reasions where as hypers has only one use. of being bright as hell. anyone can make a hyper blade, just stuff more led strips into a blade. theres nothing special about it.

His sounds, sound like poo, the battery life is absolutly the worse ive ever seen, Its got leds in the blade so I wouldent want to duel with it, sprited dueling even.

That and the price just isent worth it for something as old as it is.

You could get ervs driver, and a custom hilt thats kick butt looking and set it up for just about whatever you want and still have money left over to put twards your next saber or hell a costume even.

[xwingband]

It's not all bad by any means. I've had my issues with Jim but I believe an intelligent person can see I'm not far of the mark.

For a costumer who's only concern is a good looking blade then a hyperblade might be the best for them.

It's all MHS compatible so in the end it's all cool. Tim gets paid and you get an awesome saber built.

[Eandori]

I'm not sure the Hyperdyne blades really are that much brighter. Judging by the "light flaring" in that picture compared to a luxeon and a MR I would say some Luxeon blades approach that.

I notice that he compared his blade to a blue lux, which is one of the lower lumin output types. He should have compared it to a red lux III or green lux V.

The HyperDyne Blade comparison
http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/5831/bladepictsgn5.jpg

My Red/Orange K2 Custom Saber next to a stock MR Maul and Red Lux III Windu conversion.
http://home.comcast.net/~eandori/RedDiffuseComp2.JPG

My Green Lux V custom saber against stock MR's
http://home.comcast.net/~eandori/TCSS_5.JPG

I wish I had a Hyperdyne blade in front of me so I could run some side by side comparisons against a very bright luxeon.

[Angelus Lupus]

Nice comparison pics, your proto2 really gets an even brightness along the length of the blade

[Hasid Lafre]

Well ya have to remember when it comes to 3W leds forget lumens and get the color you like.

that being said the blue is a very nice color and is very bright.

I thik my corbin film is messed up some how.

[killphil]

I'm not sure the Hyperdyne blades really are that much brighter. Judging by the "light flaring" in that picture compared to a luxeon and a MR I would say some Luxeon blades approach that.

The Hyperblades are alot brighter than the Lux's. The thing to keep in mind, is that the Hyperblades have 9 levels of brightness, and that Hyperblade in the pic might be at a lower level.

[Hasid Lafre]

But whats the point of having the brightest saber for 18min or less?

Its compleatly pointless, mindbogaling stupid.

[Jeb Ardunis]

But whats the point of having the brightest saber for 18min or less?

Its compleatly pointless, mindbogaling stupid.

Why do people lie or gloat about having something better when they know they can easily be beat by something else? It's all about being better than someone/something just for that one split second. :wink:

Of course, I'm not implying at all that anyone here has an ego complex or lies/gloats. *l* It's just an example.

[gundamaniac]

I heard that Hypers actually have pretty good duelability because of the flexible tube material and shock absorption properties of the stuff around the LEDs. And it may just be part of the Hyperdyne hype, but I also heard rumors of it being able to completely demolish MRs in just a few hits...

No clue if any of what I mentioned above was true, but I did see a blue Hyper at C4. It completely outshone my 3-watt lux, which was driven off a buckpuck at the time and using a corbin double-wrap blade. It was a bit brighter than the brightest point on my blade. So yeah, the brightness on those things is just amazing. But I do have to say that I could see the dark spots on the blade that come from stuffing multiple pinpoints of bright light into a tube, so his blade isn't the most evenly diffused thing either.

[Hasid Lafre]

In the video of the mr blade braking . the blade broke not even at a strike.

the person with the HD saber went to go on the strike then the mr blade fell off. I think that video was a fake just to say hay this is stronger.

Theres leds in the blade so no matter what an led will pop.

The smaller dark spots that occure from having the saber on too long and an led getting hotter than one or the other and slightly melting the foam there warapted in. you know when its a dark spot cause its darker than the other dark spots.

[Jedi-Loreen]

The smaller dark spots that occure from having the saber on too long and an led getting hotter than one or the other and slightly melting the foam there warapted in. you know when its a dark spot cause its darker than the other dark spots.

Huh? http://www.thesmilies.com/smilies/confused0085.gif

[Do-Clo]

The smaller dark spots that occure from having the saber on too long and an led getting hotter than one or the other and slightly melting the foam there warapted in. you know when its a dark spot cause its darker than the other dark spots.

Huh? http://www.thesmilies.com/smilies/confused0085.gif

The dark spots in the blade are caused by the space in between the leds and the printed circuit board that the leds are mounted on, not from the foam diffuser melting. The spacing and circuit board create visible spaces that are not lit so they appear as as dark spots. The only way to over come this is to remove the printed circuit board from the blade and increase the number of leds to remove any space between them.

[LAN-ED-TUL]

or better yet, do a lux conversion and be done with bladed leds completely!

[gundamaniac]

Well, for a display blade, I do have to say they look excellent. But still...flashlight sabers offer the best all-around performance for sure.

[Jedibum]

LOL ... oh boy ... the things that people say lol. OK ... so ... I have a Hyperblade ... currently I have the updated V2 driver with the amplified sound card. I have a V1 Blue blade that is the original 3-piece blade ... and I have 2 other V2 1-piece blades ... a Green and an Amber. I also had the original V1 driver before Jim came out with V2.

1). First ... I have almost a dozen Luxeon sabers (not including my MR conversations) ... and none of them come close to the brightness of the Hyperblade. I know people continue to want to fight this, but it's just a fact.

More than a year ago I took comparison pics of a Blue 3-piece Hyperblade with the V1 driver and a 5 Watt blue and posted those pics ... and it showed very clearly that the 5 Watt blue only matched the Hyperblade for the first few inches of the blade ... after that it was no match. I will post these pics again for newer people.

About the pic shown with the Luxeon 3 Watt, the Stock MR and the Hyperdyne ... this pic was taken by Master Yoda ... and it has been under a little scrutiny. Other moderators of fx-sabers say that an angled shot of a luxeon 3 is something called the "magic angle" or something like that. And it makes everything look great. I don't know if this is true, but I know my pics are all taken straight on with light in the room. And they are as close to what I see as it can get.

Now, about the duelability of the Hyperblade ... yes those videos are real. Hasid Lafre - I don't know where you are getting some of the things you are saying ... but I would stop talking to whoever they are coming from because it's some false information.

If you are using a 3-Piece Hyperblade ... then it is VERY duelable. And the concept should not be that foreign to anyone who understands Physics and force. The board is in 3 sections and connected by wire. Simple concept ... it can absorb and insane amount of force because it's in sections ... it's not one straight board. Now ... that said ... yes those blades are expensive ... and I COMPLETELY understand someone not wanting to take the risk. I myself keep my Hyperblade mostly for show. Also, the 1-Piece blade board is obviously meant ONLY for show. Since it does not have the same loose connections ... it can be damaged more easily. The benefits of the 1-Piece blade board is that it hides the gaps and comes out more even ... at the sametime sacrificing duelability.

3). The sound ... yes there have been numerous complaints about the sound not being great. And Jim is currently in the finishing stages of what appears to be a new awesome sound card that will definitely impress and be a big improvement over what he has now. I will hopefully be able to get one of the first ones in the next couple of months and I will immediately take video and post it.

4). The run-time. It's true, you don't get alot of time out the Hyperblade. In fact ... I would say if I have my brightness set at 7 or above I am definitely getting less than 45 minutes of run-time. This is a problem for many and totally understandable. Because of current battery technology I think it will be awhile till Jim is able to increase the battery life. The Hyperblade requires ALOT to stay as bright as it does. And even with his MUCH larger 11.1 volt battery pack (which barely fits in the MHS ... in some cases it doesn't ... just a matter of luck) ... you are not getting a lot of run-time. And for some that is enough of a downside to turn them off to it and again, I understand.

Also, yes you can install the Hyperblade in the MHS (if you can get the battery to fit) ... and yes the blades are removable.

So, basically, the Hyperblade isn't for everyone. I am not bias toward it, I have over a dozen Luxeon sabers (including my MR conversations) and only 1 Hyperblade ... but I do enjoy it alot. It is by far more complex and much more expensive than my Luxeon sabers.

For those who are interested ... here are some pics:

This is the V1 Hyperblade w/ Blue V1 3-Piece Blade VS. 3Watt Blue and Stock MR Blade
http://img220.imageshack.us/my.php?image=3wattvshyperqw3.jpg


This is the V1 Hyperblade w/ Blue V1 3-Piece Blade VS. 5Watt Blue and TCSS Blade
http://img210.imageshack.us/my.php?image=5wattvshyperwm4.jpg


Close-Up of the V1
http://img209.imageshack.us/my.php?image=8turnedoncloseupui5.jpg


V2 Hyperblade with Green 1-Piece V2 Blade
http://img223.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc01914ul9.jpg


The V2 at C4
http://img220.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02090tu9.jpg

http://img222.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02104cd1.jpg

http://img233.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02179rc8.jpg

http://img523.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02184ey5.jpg

http://img517.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02330rq7.jpg


V2 Hyperblade with the new Amber V2 1-Piece Blade (No Flash)
http://img78.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02536wk2.jpg


Close-Up of the V2 Amber (No Flash)
http://img233.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02537zz6.jpg


V2 Amber (WITH Flash)
http://img338.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc02538sk1.jpg

[gundamaniac]

After seeing a blue hyperdyne saber at C4 myself, I can definitely say that the brightness was never an issue with me. The only doubts I had were as to its strength...I've heard about it but never seen it in person.

Like one rumor i heard at C4 was after one day when a bunch of us got into a huge saber brawl. Security came to break us up (but boy, that was fun while it lasted. all the MRs got busted up, but the people wielding MRs didn't even care). Later I heard from one of the guys at the big brawl that he joined a second huge brawl in the evening (which apparently didn't get broken up by security), and at the second brawl one guy was going around seriously beating people down with his saber as opposed to friendly blade-bashing. According to the guy I heard from, someone got tired of the beatings and picked up his Hyperdyne saber, then proceeded to smash the guy's blade so he couldn't fight anymore.

But it was just something I heard and never confirmed.

[xwingband]

That is a good summary Jedibum.

I think for comparisons you should use a better blade though on the luxeons. I might as well use my MR blades to wipe my butt because that's about what they are worth. :lol: A regulated driver vs. a conversion is a big difference too.

Basically if you want bright and don't care about anything else as much and the money to make one... sure go ahead.

Anyways... I feel I'm getting better bang for my buck with my luxeons and just for the price of a blade system (driver and blade) I can get two Crystal Focus boards. Easy decision for me, not that Jim would sell to me... 'nother story though.

BTW Jedibum... if you want better runtimes make your own packs. Jim is using smaller batteries than what is available. If three fit in an MHS he has to be using 14***'s. If you work out the fitting in the hilt details you could use higher capacity ones.

[Jedibum]

Hey Xwing! I must say, I'm a novice when it comes to battery packs and making your own ... but ... I would sure pay for someone to make one for me! In fact, I'd double whatever it cost you to build it. What I'd really like is a system where I can change out battery packs, so I'd probably want 2 or 3.

[xwingband]

I'm a big fan of the already protected li-ions. They make it easy because you don't have to wire in protection as each cell has it's own built in. So you can literally just solder them together like you would ni-mh batteries.

I've been buying from this guy here:
http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=166496

If Jim is using 14500's then right off the bat for less than 3/4" more in length you could get almost a 50% boost. If you plan the hilt well sometimes you can do great things like I recently was able to use c-sized li-ions that fit really well in the MHS grip sections.

[Eandori]

Well those blades certainly look bright. But again, comparing them to blue luxeon is a bad choice. Compare them to a well built Green Luxeon V saber driven at 1 amp. Or compare them to a Red Luxeon III overdriven. THOSE SETUPS are what really makes Luxeon shine.

Corbin's killer penny is a Lux V at 1 amp... has he ever compared his blade to a Hyperdyne?

[gundamaniac]

I only had a green LuxIII for C4, but when I took a picture with one of the hyperblade owners there, we stood back-to-back with our sabers ignited by our sides. My saber was almost totally drowned out- it illuminated a bit of my face. In contrast, the blue hyperblade illuminated its owner's entire body. That's a huge difference in brightness.

I mean, I know that my green LuxIII isn't set up the best way, but I'm not sure that a green luxV is that much brighter than my green LuxIII, to the level that the hyperblade was...

[Eandori]

I mean, I know that my green LuxIII isn't set up the best way, but I'm not sure that a green luxV is that much brighter than my green LuxIII, to the level that the hyperblade was...
A green Lux III is rated at 80 lumens, and the green Lux V is rated at 160 Lumens (probably like 180 or 200 when overdriven...) So yeah, Lux V is a LOT brighter. Especially when your setup truely channels nearly all the light into your blade evenly.

Ok, I just looked at all the video's and all over the HyperDyne website. Here's his gallery of video's and pictures: http://www.hyperdynelabs.com/hyperblade/gallery.php

I'm really not super impressed with the "durability proof" video's. I have personally whacked my Luxeon saber FAR FAR harder then that. I have even dualed with my Master Replicas and not broken LED's. Of course, after awhile some did break. But that was after hours and hours of dueling. I'm pretty sure that anything with electronics inside the blade cannot be as durable as an empty polycarbonate tube with reflective film in it.

Having said that... if Hyperdyne blades at least hold up solidly to "soft dueling" then that's good.

I'm still not convinced they are brighter then the PROPER luxeon setups though. I would like to either see them in person or see them side by side with a Green Lux V at 1 amp and good diffusion.

[Jedibum]

Well ... I'll say it again ... this brightness issue is just a losing argument. Every once in a while new people come around and try and fight this for some reason. Luxeons have a lot going for them, they are better than strip LED sabers in many ways. But this brightness issue is just a loosing battle. Right now a Green V2 1-piece Hyperblade will outshine a 5 Watt Green not matter what blade you are using or what set-up you have going. LED technology is getting better and better (like the Tri-Lux), who knows what will happen down the road ... but right now ... if we are arguing what is the brightest possible ... it's a Hyperblade.

But ... if some of you still need to see more pics ... I happen to have a 5Watt Green Luxeon that I am currently not using ... and I have a V2 Green Hyperblade. So I am willing to do a set-up with my 5Watt Green and take some comparison shots with my Green Hyperblade if you guys want it. I'm telling you the outcome will be obvious. If you guys want me to do it then I want you guys to help pick what set-up I use for the Green 5Watt so there will be as few "you should have used this ..." as possible.

Right now, for blades, I have many TCSS blades ... 1 Corbin blade ... 2 Ultra blades ... and many Stock MR blades. So you guys need to pick a blade. I have an Ultra Sound Card that I can use to drive the 5 Watt, or I can hook it up straight to the battery pack ... I'll need to know which you guys would prefer. And now to battery packs ... what I have is either a Dual 9Volt set-up ... an 8AAA holder ... a 7.2 Volt rechargeable pack ... or an 11.1 Volt rechargeable pack from batteryspace.com ... these choices are up to you guys if you would like to see the comparison pics.

[killphil]

If you are comfortable dismantling any of your blades, then I would try what myself, Eandori, and X-Wingband have experimented with lately-the "Erv" style setup: which is a double wrap of Corbin and 35cm-70cm Ultrafilm or any polypropylene type film wrapped inside it. Check the thread "relationship:even-ness vs brightness below this thread to see examples of what we have gotten so far with this blade setup. It's the most even diffusion I have ever seen.

If you don't want to do that, I'd say go with the Ultrablade, as they are the most even of the blade types you listed. If you are going to be powering the Lux V with Ultra's board, I'd caution against the 11.1v setuo, as that pack will more than likely rate well over 12v when fully charged and the Ultra sound board cannot handle over 12 volts, wouldn't want you to fry it. I'd suggest the 7.2, but you didn't list the mA ratings(it will need to be over 700mA's to properly power it), and I'd suggest running the Lux V in the Red/Amber or K2 settings, as that will give you the most brightness, but you'll need over 1500mA's on your battery pack.

Just my 2 cents, but I'm sure someone more knowledgeable will be able to confirm this ot give you better advice...

Look forward to seeing your pics, but I already know the Hyperblade will kill the Lux :wink:

[xwingband]

I don't doubt the hyperblade will be brighter... stuff a ton of little LEDs in a blade and it's going to be bright. I think the issue Eandori is having is getting an exact guage of brightness. Pictures are really hard to get just right though... I'd rather work on another saber than futz with my camera endlessly to get it "right". :D

To give a good comparison I'd use the ultrablade, 7.2 battery pack (freshly charged) and ultraboard w/ pulse off. killphil is pretty spot on... that 11.1V pack does have the potential to fry the ultraboard. freshly charged it would be peaking over 12V and at the max of the board I wouldn't want to risk it.

To shed light on the batteries... you can use whatever capacity. You could use 400mAh CR123's if that's all you had space for, but the runtimes are going to suck. There is no must be over this mAh requirement.

The exception to that is when looking at continuous draw ratings. If it's below what your LED will want then you are in trouble. Another good stat is the tested draw rate which is how they make up the capacity rating. Example: A battery tested to have 2000mAh capacity @ a 1A draw is going to be better than one with the same capacity determined @ 100ma. Real-life idea: with the c-sized li-ion I got they are tested at 2A so when I'm only drawing 1A for my LED I should get AT LEAST what you can predict from capacity/draw, if not more.

[Eandori]

Yeah, I can see Hyperdyne blades being brighter, but I still want to know how much. If you set up a GREEN Luxeon V make sure that you are driving it close to 1 amp. That's where they really get the most output you can get for a luxeon right now. It's truely brighter then other Luxeon setups too!

If you look at the (color versus flaring) thread I posted some pictures of Proto2 saber totally blowing away master replicas, just like the Hyperdyne blades are doing. It's not *camera magic* either, it's a LOT brighter then the MR's. To the point where it lights up a whole room if it's dark.

Thanks for posting pics and info, i like hearing more about the Hyperdyne blades and just other technologies in general :)

[Jedibum]

Hi Guys!

So far it seems like I will use Ultra's Blade ... and the 7.2 Volt battery pack. Oh, and the battery pack is at 1000mAh. What do you guys think ... should I hook it up using Ultra's Sound Board or just straight from the battery pack?

[Lord Maul]

Use the Ultrasound with the 7.2V pack.

[killphil]

And run it in the Red/amber setting...more brightness this way.

[Marsupial]

Am I really going to see the day where a good comparison pic of luxeon technology and hyperblades will be displayed on the web???

I've been asking for this for... ages... on several forums... without anyone being able to do that.

[Eandori]

Am I really going to see the day where a good comparison pic of luxeon technology and hyperblades will be displayed on the web???

I've been asking for this for... ages... on several forums... without anyone being able to do that.
That's what I'm waiting for too... Not a Hyperblade compared to a VERY BADLY diffused BLUE luxeon. I want to see a green hyperblade next to a Green Lux V driven at 1 amp and VERY evenly diffused. That's when I'll believe they are truely brighter.

A blue Lux III lambertian is rated at 30 lumens: http://www.luxeonstar.com/item.php?id=389&link_str=196::198&partno=LXHL-LB3C
A Red Lux III Lambertian is rated at 140 lumens: http://www.luxeonstar.com/item.php?id=1770&link_str=196::198&partno=LXHL-LD3C
A Green Lux V Lambertian is rated at 160 lumens(probably 180+ when overdriven...): http://www.luxeonstar.com/item.php?id=369&link_str=199::201&partno=LXHL-LM5C

Simply put, comparing standard blue LED's (which are bright) to blue Luxeons is a bad way to prove Hyperblades are brighter. Compare it to the big hitters of Luxeon, then you'll make a believer out of me :)

[Jedibum]

Well something went wrong with my 5 Watt Green. I hooked everything up and it seemed to work ok on the test, then when I got it all installed in my Overlord saber I turned it on and the 5Watt Green only went on for a second ... then it shuts off. I have to un-click the button and re-click it but it only goes on for a second again and then turns itself off. I have no idea what is wrong with it. I just tried to buy another one from the store, but I see Tim is all out of them. So I'm going to have to wait until Tim gets more Green 5Watt's in stock. Sorry guys. Has anyone had that happen to a 5Watt before?

In the meantime I do have a 5Watt Blue ... and I have a Blue Hyperdyne blade. Since I pretty much have everything set up I will change everything to Blue for now so I can post some Blue comparision pics. Just a note - The Blue Hyperdyne blade that I will be using is a version 1 blade that is in 3 sections ... Jim has since made a version 2 blade that has more LED's and is brighter.

And I think you can bet that whatever we see in these comparision pics, is going to be very similar when I take the Green comparision pics ... because the Luxeon Green might be brighter than the blue ... but the Hyperblade Green is also ALOT brighter than the Hyperblade Blue.

So until I get a replacement 5Watt Green I'll go ahead and take some Blue pics.

[xwingband]

Are you by chance using a latching switch?

[Novastar]

If anyone near San Jose, CA has any kind of Hyperblade, I'd be more than happy to compare it to whatever I get setup for my CF v2.61s.

We can certainly try:

* multiple blade lengths
* diffusers
* current flicker / solid blade

The Luxeons would be running the LEDs at the "max" I suppose, although I *COULD* try what Eandori wants to see which is a Lux V over-driven @ 1A. No problem.

PM me if you are in SJ and want to schedule this sometime...

[Eandori]

The Blue Lux V is only 48 lumens, still a very poor comparison to the best stuff Luxeon can do: http://www.luxeonstar.com/item.php?id=371&link_str=199::201&partno=LXHL-LB5C

Keep in mind, that a Green Lux V pulling 1 amp is closer to 7 watts, not 5. So of all the luxeons out there it has the most power dissipation and that alone can cause issues. That's why I'm specifically avoiding calling it a 5 watt luxeon, even if it is typically running 5 watts :)

Based on your description, I'm not sure if your Luxeon is fried. You said the saber turned on for a second and powered off immediately? That could really be for a lot of reasons. Have you tested out that Lux V and verified it's actually fried?

If the Lux V is fried then the chances are VERY strong you gave it too much current. I'm very doubtful that your LED would fry based on heat of only being on for a second.

So if your Lux V is fried then I would spend time looking at your setup, testing continuity and looking for shorts, etc. With a forward voltage of 6.85v it's hard to overdrive a Luxeon V. By that I simply mean you must overcome the high forward voltage before that LED starts really letting current through.

If anybody with a Hyperdyne blade (green preferred, but not required) lives in the Sacramento California area, just send me a PM and we can meet up and take some pictures. I have a Green Lux V in my saber that I believe is very well setup now. It's the picture in my signature.

[Jedibum]

As soon as Tim gets a 5Watt Green in stock I will order a couple for the comparison photos. In the meantime ... I've taken some comparison photos of a 5Watt Blue VS. V1 Hyperblade Blue.

Pics:

First I wanted to take some pics of the 5Watt Blue and the Hyperblade alone:

5Watt Blue w/Flash in lit room
http://img228.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc03456oi7.jpg

5Watt Blue without Flash in lit room (I know the room looks dark, but it's really well lit ... it's just the intense brightness that makes the pic look like everything else is dark)
http://img170.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc03457bw0.jpg

V1 Blue Hyperblade w/Flash in lit room
http://img526.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc03460gn3.jpg

V1 Blue Hyperblade without Flash in lit room
http://img101.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc03458dh2.jpg

5Watt Blue on Left; Hyperblade on Right ... taken w/Flash in lit room
http://img294.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc03444wm6.jpg

Close-up w/Flash
http://img215.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc03443sc9.jpg

5Watt Blue on Left; Hyperblade on Right ... taken without Flash in lit room
http://img261.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc03440xq5.jpg

Close-up without Flash
http://img222.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc03442ro7.jpg

Taken in complete darkness
http://img440.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc03454cm7.jpg

5Watt Blue & Hyperblade laying on carpet ... taken w/Flash in lit room
http://img217.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc03432fv8.jpg

Close-up of 5Watt Blue & Hyperblade laying on carpet with some analysis
http://img178.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc03433atf0.jpg


After taking these pics and really getting a good look at these two sabers together, I noticed that the 5 Watt is actually brighter than the V1 Hyperblade at the base! I tried to show where I saw this in the last pic. I think it's noticeable in the pic, but I definitely noticed it in person. Basically for the first inch or so the 5Watt is brighter ... not by a lot ... but it still is. Then very quickly it becomes even on brightness for the next few inches or so ... and then the last 2/3 of the 5Watt blade becomes dimmer and loses out to the Hyperblade.

The 5Watt Blue preformed better than I expected. The last time I took these comparison pics was over a year ago. Since then better diffusion and battery options have become available. And while over a year ago, the 5Watt was not brighter at the base than the Hyperblade ... with the help of these things it has increased it's performance by a small percentage. Obviously the Hyperblade won by too great a margin for things like diffusion and overdriving to get the 5Watt Blue to match or win ... but it has definitely improved over time.

Something else that must be noted about these comparison pics. This was a V1 Blue Hyperblade that is sectioned into 3-Pieces. Jim now has V2 Blue blades that have many more LED's in them and they are noticeably brighter than V1 blades. So the 5Watt Blue would definitely have not preformed as well against the V2 Blue Hyperdyne blade. Unfortunately I only have a V1 Blue blade, so that's what I used. But, my Green Hyperblade is a V2 ... and it's a 1-piece board. So that means it is the best and brightest Hyperblade has to offer. So for that reason alone, the real test will obviously be the Green test.

And my pre-fight prediction on the Green test ... similar outcome. The 5Watt Green is a major jump in brightness over the 5Watt Blue ... but in the same way the V2 Green is a HUGE difference compared to the V1 Blue. So I think the comparison between the 2 Greens will be similar to this Blue comparison and have a similar outcome. But who knows, we will have to wait till FIGHT NIGHT!!!

BTW, when I buy a couple more Green 5Watts from Tim I think that will push me past the $1,000 mark for money I have spent at Tim's store since June!!! :shock: That is if I haven't already past it.

[Novastar]

For the record (and those who are brand-spankin' new to LED sabers), it does NOT cost $1000 to put together a single TCSS saber. Of any sort. So don't get confused, you youngin's!! ;)

Additionally, my guess is the blade film used in the photos above is a single wrap of Corbin's film (due to the vertical "coring" line seen)... although it would be nice to actually know the blade length and film specifics, as they have a lot to do with the implementation of a "correct" LED saber. Also, if the saber tip has a well-setup "mirror", or if it is simply the stock MR or what not. It looks like the Luxeon has some of the "bulbing" we see from poor reflection, or none at all. ALSO... driving. I'm assuming the 5w is simply being "driven" by a resistor. Which is to say... no driving at all. So... I think we'll want to know:

* Driving? Resistor, board, puck, battery setup, mAh, etc.
* Diffuser? Stock MR, Corbin single wrap, TCSS core, Ultra/Gelu's wrap, etc. etc.
* Tip Mirror? None, semi-reflective, very reflective, etc.
* Blade type? Thin-wall, thick-walled, 1", etc. (although this appears to be similar on both sabers here, I think)
* Same bin LED? Since both sabers obviously do not use the same LED, are the bins at least close. Some blues/cyans/whatevers I've seen... suck hard compared to another.
* Batteries. I mentioned this above, but that matters in terms of the mA draw. I know Jim uses Li-Ions, and I love those batteries, heheh :)

Let us know, and thanks for the in-depth photos and comments! :)

[xwingband]

Additionally, my guess is the blade film used in the photos above is a single wrap of Corbin's film (due to the vertical "coring" line seen)

Actually that's flash. She's using an ultrablade I believe.

[Jedibum]

It is true, you don't have to spend $1,000 to build a saber! But I am insanely addicted ... yes I said it ... I am a TCSS-aholic.

You are correct Xwingband! Ultrablade was used!

I tried to list when I used a Flash and when I didn't. I'll double check my descriptions. Also, I tried to take pictures of the sabers by-themselves ... because I wanted everyone to see how bright the 5Watt Blue actually is when it's not next to the Hyperblade.

Earlier in the thread I asked what everyone wanted as far as the set-up for the 5Watt Blue. I didn't have anything exotic for blades, what I had was: Stock MR, Thick-Walled TCSS, Corbin's blade, and Ultra blade. It seemed Ultra Blade was the winner so that's the blade I used. It was not a DIY blade, it was the blade sent with my Overlord saber, it is built by Ultra, so it has his usual tips. Oh, and it's 36.5 inches long ... with 34 inches of actual blade outside the Emitter.

For batteries, after the choices I gave everyone wanted the 7.2Volt, 1000mAh rechargeable battery pack. So that's what I used. I currently have more battery options shipping to me, so I could try some with more mAh in a couple of days.

The vote was to use Ultra's Sound Board as opposed to just a resistor ... so that's what I used.

What bin is an excellent question! I believe my 5Watt Blue is a Bin 4 Blue. And my V1 Hyperblade Blue appears to be very close with just being slightly lighter. Not a big difference, not very noticeable, but I would say Hyperblade is a shade lighter.

So to re-cap!

*Ultra Sound Board
*Ultra Blade (Made by Ultra, 34 inches out of the Emitter)
*Similar Bin (5Watt is Bin 4 Blue; Hyperblade is close but a shade lighter)
*7.2Volt, 1000mAh rechargeable battery pack (both sabers were fully charged)

[Eandori]

Thanks for taking the time to do those comparisons and posting pictures. Like Novastar was pointing out, your comparison was very flawed though. It's VERY easy to see in the pictures the issues which exist on your Luxeon blade. To restate what you compared....

-You took a 46 Lumen Luxeon instead of the 160+ ones that exist for the comparison.
-You inserted that low-lumen luxeon into a very badly diffused blade where nearly all the light is getting lost at the hilt. (FYI most of the light was already lost before you see it coming out the emitter when it's badly diffused...)
-You compared it side by side to a properly built Version 1 of Hyperdyne blades.

In this picture, taken by yours truely, I'm comparing a WELL BUILT luxeon saber to both a master replica and a lux -conv master replica with bad diffusion. Note that...
-the Darth Maul MR has fresh batteries
-the lux conv has a 140 lumen LED (brighter)
-The well built saber has a 75-100 lumen LED being overdriven (most likely not as bright ast the Lux Conv...)

You will note how the well built saber is CLEARLY brighter after the first 2" of the blade. Even with similar or less lumen LED.
http://home.comcast.net/~eandori/Red_Diffuse_compare_1.JPG
http://home.comcast.net/~eandori/RedDiffuseComp2.JPG

Here is some similar pictures with my Proto2 next to a Cyan Lux MR conversion (badly diffused) and a stock Luke ROTJ MR with fresh batteries. To prep you, the Proto2 is using a Lux V overdriven at 1 amp with GOOD diffusion. The Cyan MR has a far lower lumen LED (Cyan K2) with only around 800mA. Eyeballing it, I would say about as bright as my blue Lux III was before it fried.
http://home.comcast.net/~eandori/green_compare_1.JPG

What point am I trying to make?

1. You must start with the right luxeon to compare.
2. Light diffusion is so important that a worse LED can easily outshine a brighter LED with a better built blade.

[killphil]

Actually, Eandori, that was a very good comparison.

That was an Ultrablade that she used in the Lux. Hardly what I would consider badly diffused. It's probably the most evenly lit method, save our combo film "Erv" style we've been experimenting with.

And she also compared a Lux V blue(Although dimmer than other colors, it's still the brightest blue available) to a blue Hyperblade, which she also mentions is not nearly as bright as other Hyperblades on the market. Seems like the best apple to apple comparrison I've ever seen between the 2 technologies...

[gundamaniac]

That was a good comparison of Lux to Hyperblade tech. You should be comparing like colors, which is what Jedibum did. Blue to blue. She stated already that she did not have the green luxV available at the moment. So hold onto your socks and wait for her green luxV to arrive before tearing into her about using a low-lumen Luxeon. After all, she could have really made this unfair by comparing the blue luxV to her green v2 Hyperblade.

To reiterate killphil's point, an ultrablade was used- that's a pretty dang good diffusing blade, though not as good as Erv's. Most of the light is not lost in the hilt with an Ultrablade. It was a blue LuxV, the brightest blue Lux available, regardless of the lumen rating of blue Luxes. It was driven off the Ultraboard. This isn't a conspiracy, with Hyperdyne lurking everywhere and manipulating tests, or Hyperblade owners deliberately trying to cast a bad light on Lux-based sabers to justify the insane cost of the Hyperblade they bought. It's just a fact that a well-built blade crammed full of LEDs is going to be brighter and more even than a well-built Lux with the most even diffusion available (at the moment anyway...who knows what might happen later).

Also, in the pictures of the Lux by itself, you can clearly see that the blade is evenly diffused. However, in the pictures where it's side-by-side with the Hyperblade, it is dimmer and looks less evenly diffused. That's because the hyperblade just outshines it by that much. It's kind of like comparing a Lux saber in the dark to the same saber in a room with extremely high amounts of ambient light. The Hyperblade just washes out the Lux. Don't forget, too, that camera sensors adjust brightness and light settings by comparing everything to the brightest thing in the picture...which was the Hyperblade. It's sort of like taking a picture outdoors, with the sun in the background. The entire rest of the picture will turn out nearly black, regardless of how well illuminated the buildings, trees, etc around you are. It's not like she used a single-wrap Corbin blade, or just a tube that was sanded, to try to compare the sabers; she used an ultrablade... Don't get me wrong. I'm a very strong supporter of the FSM and Lux-based sabers. But that was a very fair and even comparison of the two technologies. And that was a comparison to the last generation of hyperdyne tech.

[killphil]

Indeed. The Ultrablade obviously looked very even by itself, but when put next to a brighter light, the brighter blade will cancel out most any light that is not emitting from it's natural source and will show the lux for what it truely is: a bottom lit application. I'd dare say that the Erv style blades would show something similar when being displayed next to a Hyperblade.

And I agree w/Gundam. We should be comparing like colors. A blue LED is always going to be dimmer next to their counterparts, even in a Hyperblade. It's not just Luxeons that has dim blues, it's across the board. The margin of difference will basically be the same, regardless if you compare green to green, red to red and so forth.

And also, like was pointed out, it's not even the brightest blue Hyperblade available, and that is the brightest Lux blue on the market currently, so the comparrison was sound in my mind.

[Eandori]

Of course we should compare like colors... total agreement...

BUT you are still overlooking something....

The relative lumens that a standard blue LED puts out compared to a Standard Green/Red is not relative to the lumens that a blue Luxeon puts out compared to Green/Red Luxeon.

Perhaps it's based on the inner workings of the doped silicon in a Luxeon LED... perhaps it's based on the power distribution in that silicon... I don't know.

But I do know Blue Lux compared to Green Lux is NOT THE SAME as Blue LED compared to Green LED. That is why the comparison done with the Hyperdyne blade is not valid.

Do the test yourself. Remove a green standard LED from your master replica and compare the max light output to a standard blue LED from your master replica. I can do this because I have left over LED strips from the conversions... Both the standard Green and Blue LED are very bright and comparible.

Now compare a Green Luxeon to a Blue Luxeon. Not at all the same. Even the datasheet clearly calls that out. Blue Luxeons for whatever reason fall far below the light output of Green/Red.[/b]

[gundamaniac]

ok, so bottom line is that it's not the setup or the blade that was bad after all, but rather the fact that by its very nature, a blue luxeon is dimmer than other luxes.

I understand where you're coming from that a comparison using blue blades is not a good way to compare what Luxes are truly capable of. But, within that color, that was a very fair comparison of the technologies for anyone considering whether to get a Blue LuxV saber or a Blue Hyperblade.

So I guess all that's left to do is wait for Jedibum to receive a new green LuxV before we can truly get a comparison of what LuxV tech is capable of versus the latest that Hyperdyne has to offer.

[Hasid Lafre]

How many times does it have to be said. lumen numbers are bunkis.

[Jedibum]

Hi everyone!

You guys hit it right on the head! I am actually very proud of how my 5Watt stood up. Because of recent technology it preformed even better than a year ago.

Eandori - I think you are a little confused. This was not a flawed comparison by any means. I am shocked that you consider a current ULTRA BLADE made by ULTRA to be a "badly diffused" blade. I personally love Ultra's blades ... and I would love to see you take up that debate with him. I think Ultra's blades are among the best diffused blades I have seen. I have never heard anyone with your opinion. I would like to know what blades you are using and see a side-by-side comparison with Ultra's blades.

Also, I don't understand your point about 5Watt Blue being a bad Luxeon to compare to a V1 Blue Hyperblade ... I would like you to explain that one again??? I think everyone agrees, it's a more than fair comparison because my V1 Hyperblade is also Blue ... so doesn't that make it fair? I certainly hope you are not implying that I should take a 5Watt GREEN Luxeon and compare it's brightness to a V1 BLUE Hyperblade ... how would that be fair? You are handicapping the Hyperblade because Blue is obviously inferior to Green. I just don't get your argument. You need to explain it to me again. I must be slow.

And by the way ... all my sabers are "WELL BUILT" ... I take offense to your implication that these sabers are not up to your standards because you seem to not like the outcome of the pictures. And just for clarification ... the 5Watt Blue saber is an Overlord ... it's all Built by Ultra ... using Ultra's Blade, sound card, and MLS system. So if you have a problem with the Quality of Ultra's work ... I think we would all enjoy that debate with him also.

For those who would like to see some Day-time pics ... here you go ...

Both sabers laying on the ground, turned off, FULLY lit room by the sun and many lamps
http://img406.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc03463am6.jpg

Only the 5Watt turned on ... lots of DIRECT sunlight and lamps
http://img209.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc03464ha8.jpg

Both sabers turned on ... lots of DIRECT sunlight and lamps
http://img410.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc03465ev4.jpg

Both sabers, turned off, well lit room ... some sunlight and lamps
http://img233.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc03474my8.jpg

Only the 5Watt turned on (this pic is for you Eandori ... does that 5Watt look like it's losing light to you???)
http://img47.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc03475iq3.jpg

Both sabers, turned on ... notice that next to the Hyperblade ... the flaws of the 5Watt become very visible
http://img511.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc03479rl4.jpg

[Eandori]

ok, so bottom line is that it's not the setup or the blade that was bad after all, but rather the fact that by its very nature, a blue luxeon is dimmer than other luxes.

I understand where you're coming from that a comparison of the Blues is not a good way to compare what Luxes are truly capable of. But that was a very fair comparison of the blues for anyone considering a Blue LuxV saber or a Blue Hyperblade.

So I guess all that's left to do is wait for Jedibum to receive a new green LuxV before we can truly get a comparison of what LuxV tech is capable of versus the latest that Hyperdyne has to offer.
Total agreement :)

If I was to go for "the brightest blue lightsaber" I would buy a Hyperdyne hands down. But I'm not convinced that is true for Red and Green. That's the comparison that I really want to see.

I posted the above pictures also so WHEN that comparison does come out it will hopefully happen with a very well constructed blade. To determine how "even" your luxeon blade is, I currently believe the best method is to see the amount of "light flaring" on the carpet in a dark room. I have not yet seen a better method to gage how much light is coming out of your saber. My pictures above make that pretty clear too.

[Jedibum]

It sounds to me like we are trying to change this discussion into something it wasn't.

We aren't talking about different manufactured LED's and how they "fairly" compare to Luxeons ...

All this was, was a proper comparison between the Brightest Luxeon's currently have to offer (because Luxeons are what we use in our sabers) ... VS. ... a Hyperblade. That's it. A fair comparison, making sure the Luxeon has good diffusion and is driven properly. And that's what we are doing. The blue test I did, I believe, was very fair ... if not better for Luxeon since I only used a V1 Hyperblade. I think the comparison of Greens will be similar since they will both be significantly brighter but in a similar way.

Also ... when I take my pictures I try and cut down as much as possible things like "Light-Flaring" ... I believe too much of that gives an unfair view of what the lightsaber actually looks like. I think it's clear in my pictures I do not let the Hyperblade saturate the camera or either lightsaber "glow" or "flair" too much so it does not give a false sense of brightness

[Eandori]

Eandori - I think you are a little confused. This was not a flawed comparison by any means. I am shocked that you consider a current ULTRA BLADE made by ULTRA to be a "badly diffused" blade. I personally love Ultra's blades ... and I would love to see you take up that debate with him. I think Ultra's blades are among the best diffused blades I have seen. I have never heard anyone with your opinion. I would like to know what blades you are using and see a side-by-side comparison with Ultra's blades.

Look at my photo's posted above. The light flaring on the carpet in a dark room gives it away. I do think the setup I'm using is more even then Ultra's, and it's not *my* setup. I followed Erv's instructions on how to build an evenly lit blade.



Also, I don't understand your point about 5Watt Blue being a bad Luxeon to compare to a V1 Blue Hyperblade ... I would like you to explain that one again??? I think everyone agrees, it's a more than fair comparison because my V1 Hyperblade is also Blue ... so doesn't that make it fair? I certainly hope you are not implying that I should take a 5Watt GREEN Luxeon and compare it's brightness to a V1 BLUE Hyperblade ... how would that be fair? You are handicapping the Hyperblade because Blue is obviously inferior to Green. I just don't get your argument. You need to explain it to me again. I must be slow.

Whoa, you totally missed that point. I don't think you read my posts very clearly, or perhaps I was not as clear as I should have been. Compare like colors sure. Yes, I even agreed right above that Blue Hyperblade is brighter then Blue luxeon. What I'm saying is you cannot make the GENERAL statement "Hyperblade is brighter then Luxeon" when you have compared to the most poor performing luxeon there is. I expect blue Hyper to beat blue Lux. I think red lux to red hyper and green lux to green hyper will be much closer.

Hopefully that time what I'm saying is clear.



And by the way ... all my sabers are "WELL BUILT" ... I take offense to your implication that these sabers are not up to your standards because you seem to not like the outcome of the pictures. And just for clarification ... the 5Watt Blue saber is an Overlord ... it's all Built by Ultra ... using Ultra's Blade, sound card, and MLS system. So if you have a problem with the Quality of Ultra's work ... I think we would all enjoy that debate with him also.

Who ever said that Ultra's method was 100% the most even? I'm sure people out there like his blades the most, for them it's what they enjoy the most. I happen to think that Erv's method is more evenly lit. For me, that's what I go for. I want an EVEN blade.

I should apologize though, I'm sorry it came across like yours was not well built. What I should have said is that yours is not as evenly lit as a Luxeon saber truely can be. No offense is meant by it, I'm sure you are good at what you do and your sabers kick ass. But I do think they get more even then what you are showing in your pictures.

[gundamaniac]

Whoa, I sense a heated war going on here >_<

Let's just, at the moment, settle for the fact that for blue, Hyper beats Lux, and that for the moment we don't know exactly how the greens will turn out. After all, the green Lux is much brighter than the blue Lux...but a green hyper v2 will also be much brighter than a blue hyper v1. Then after the green comparison, we can talk about how the best Lux has to offer stacks up against the best Hyper has to offer, since green is one of the highest rated Luxes out there.

Eandori, Jedibum, make up and shake hands? Please? Or I'll have to call up my friends from the kingdom of Strongbadia to take care of you :evil:

[Jedibum]

Well, we will have to just agree to disagree. In my opinion ... the amount of light you let flair out onto carpet in a picture does not say anything about how much brighter or better a blade/saber is. With the right settings you could have a 3Watt flair like crazy when laying on carpet.

If anything, in my opinion, I believe my pictures show the brightness of the blade without letting things like flair trick the eye.

First of all, I do not think a 5Watt Blue is the "poorest luxeon there is" ... in fact it's not even the "poorest 5Watt" ... most consider Royal Blue to be the darkest. And, while I did not use the brightest 5Watt ... I also did not use the Brightest Hyperblade ... I used each of their counterparts. And I would prepare for a similar outcome with Green.

Also ... did I ever type "Ultra's method is 100% the most even"??? I just went through my post and I couldn't find it ... please help me find it? What I said was "I think Ultra's blades are among the best diffused blades I have seen" ... mmm ... "among" the best ... do you disagree?

Erv sent me a package last Saturday ... it should be arriving within the next few days. In the package will be a blade made by Erv. While Erv's blades may be better than Ultra's (I wouldn't know) ... I would be surprised if anything drastically noticeable changed in the picture. But it's clear I need to take these pictures again using Erv's blade to satisfy everyone, so that's what I will do.

And when I take the Green test pics, I will take one pic using Ultra's blade ... and another using Erv's blade so everyone will be happy.

[Jedibum]

It's ok gundamaniac ... I am not mad. Just frustrated.

I know you guys can understand. I mean, I hear people talking about wanting Luxeon and Hyperblade comparisons ... so I know I can help ... so I volunteer to take pictures. And to make it as fair as possible I even let people pick the 5Watt set-up.

Then I try and take pictures showing the actual blades, with no light saturation. I take what I think are very fair pics. Happy about my 5Watt's performance.

And than I hear that it was a "flawed comparison" ... and my blade is "badly diffused" ... and just complaint after complaint. I mean, is this serious?

The 5Watt Blue was completely Ultra driven using Ultra Blade ... and the Hyperblade was V1 ... I mean come on! What more do you want? Are we really going to get bitchy about this being a proper comparison? At this point it really seems like anyone that has a major problem is just now angry at the outcome and is taking it out on my pics.

[xwingband]

Please don't get frustrated... Heck I get frustrated with pictures too. The problem is they can be "accurate" and not true to life. Odd ain't it?

The first V picture is probably very close to what you'd see in person. Then the comparison together to not let the hyperdyne blade go crazy exposed makes the V look not like it would in real life. Is the flare it shows accurate... yup, but we don't always see that in real life.

Bottom line is I think there will always be someone pissing and moaning about more pictures. Like I'd like to knock every n00b on the head that asks what ______ conversion looks like when there is a ton of pictures out there. same deal here... it's micromanaging via the internet. :)

If you take the same pictures vs. the other colors I'd have no qualms. I'm more interested in the Red though. Yes, green is the best Lux color but in the same way green differences are exagerated in the hyperdyne blade too.

All kind of moot to me though... Jim wouldn't sell me anything. :D

[Eandori]

Well, we don't want ya frustrated. I to appreciate you taking the time to take pictures and post them online. I think it's awesome that you are willing to help this effort out by doing that. To go a step past that, let me formally apologize for frustrating you. I'm really not trying to do that.

That doesn't mean I agree with your conclusions, but hopefully we can all handle not being right all the time. Hell I could be totally wrong about which is brigher when you compare green and red. My personal feeling is that I expect the green and red comparisons to be closer in Hyperdyne brightness then the blue comparison was. That was the jist of my messages before. If the Green/Red Luxeons end up being very even or brighter, the we really shouldn't claim Hyperdyne is just brighter then luxeon. That's the statement I'm hearing now, which I'm challenging :)

Now about the pictorial comparisons, a side by side comparison of sabers emitting the same frequency of light is a pretty good way to compare them. Side by side in the same picture works well because it removes variance from the camera lens from the equation. One picture light sensitivity is not equal to another, but inside the same picture is another story.

That's why I feel confident in stating that your 5w blue luxeon (which might look fantastic in person) is not very even. You can clearly see a brighter saber at the hilt, and a dark blade thereafter. Not two separate pictures compared... all part of the same picture. The overall light of both the Hyperdyne blade and the Lux V caused your digital camera to adjust it's sensitivity. Uniform sensitivity across the entire picture face, where you can clearly see a bright hilt and dim blade.

On the pictures of my 3 side by side sabers, it's the same story. A single camera shot, single amount of sensitivity across the face of the camera. The hilt on the MR Windu Conversion was BRIGHTER then my Proto2 which shows that if my Proto2 was brighter at the hilt.. you would see it. Just like you can see it on the Windu Conversion. But you don't, what you see is very even light along the length with a VERY gradual decrease in brightness. Simply put, the fact that other sabers were in the SAME picture gives credibility to the one I was trying to show. The Master Replica either was, or SHOULD BE more even then a luxeon... The MR conversion clearly showed the flaring and an even brighter hilt.

You said
In my opinion ... the amount of light you let flair out onto carpet in a picture does not say anything about how much brighter or better a blade/saber is. With the right settings you could have a 3Watt flair like crazy when laying on carpet
Yes and no. That's the whole point of what I'm trying to explain with this post. In that situation you are describing, where a 3 watt is flaring like crazy... if you lay a very bright hyperblade next to it in the same picture then you will no longer get that extreme flaring on the 3 watt. Like you described yourself, the brighter blade would re-bias the sensitivity of your digital camera lens and the "carpet flare" on the 3 watt would go away. It's for that same exact reason I took pictures with 3 sabers side by side. It gives a basis for good comparison. Anybody that owns a Darth Maul Master Replica and lay it on the ground next to their Luxeon saber and snap a shot with the two of them in the same frame. Doing that simple step elimated lots of the "possible skewing" of the comparison.

If I take a picture of the Red Lux III Windu MR Conversion by itself, it looks pretty good. In person it looks pretty even. But when you snap a picture next to something like a Master Replica, it becomes obvious how un-even my own conversion is.

Same theory goes for your pictures...

Your Hyperdyne blade should appear even which it did. Your Luxeon should show more light at the base which it did. (just like mine did). The difference was how you even stated yourself, the Blue Luxeon V was brighter then the Hyperblade at the hilt, and dimmer a few inches down. That is a perfect description of... flaring.

I'm telling you now, and my pictures of Proto2 show the same thing, my Proto2 saber blade is very evenly bright. You gotta look hard to see how much dimmer the tip is then the hilt. It looks more even with my Red-Orange K2 then my Green Lux V, but they use differen lenses. Based on how DIFFICULT it is to tell how much brighter my Proto2 hilt versus middle/tip is in person and on film I feel VERY confident stating that it's more evenly lit.

Again, no offense is meant to you. I don't mean to insult your sabers. I'm actually very envious of your Blue Hyperdyne and I would like to get one myself someday. Your time/effort posting here is totally appreciated by me, and I truely mean that.

I just don't want to see such a "X is better then Y, case closed" attitiude when many important aspects seem to be getting overlooked.

Cheers,

[gundamaniac]

Part of the reason could be your Erv-style blade, Eandori. I recently did a rough conversion of one of my Corbins over to an Erv. Granted, I did not cut up or roll the cellophane-ish material very well, so you can see seams and such. But the diffusion further down the blade is much more even than the Ultra, which was pretty much the most evenly-diffused blade til the Erv-style came along.

Perhaps we should wait until Jedibum's Erv-style arrives.

By the by, Eandori, considering how even your erv-style blade is...how many wraps of Corbin film and Gelu/Ultra film respectively did it take to build? And is it thick or thin-walled? My Erv-style is pretty even, but I still notice dimming near the end.

[Jedibum]

Look, I don't get where this idea of my 5Watt being not evenly lit (or dimming at the top half) is coming from. That's just simply false ... if you need to believe it, then fine. But my Blue 5Watt with Ultra's blade is very evenly lit. In fact, it only flares a little at the base and it keeps the ENTIRE blade lit evenly all the way to the tip. Now, when it is placed right next to the Hyperblade ... it gets completely dominated and the brightness of the Hyperblade shows the weakness of the 5Watt. No matter how evenly lit your blade is ... unless you are using a 8 - 10 Watt luxeon ... the Hyperdyne will make it look like it is dimming. It's not that the blade is actually dimmer at the top ... it's the Hyperblade exposing any part of the other blade that does not match completely in brightness.

Anyone who thinks my 5Watt blade is poorly diffused or not evenly lit ... please look at these pics, and then if you still believe it's not evenly lit ... explain it to me because I am clearly retarded.

5Watt Blue ... no Flash
http://img475.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc03481oo8.jpg

5Watt Blue ... with Flash
http://img513.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc03482zs5.jpg

5Watt Blue next to the new MR Luke ANH ... no Flash
http://img473.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc03484qa8.jpg

5Watt Blue next to the new MR Luke ANH ... with Flash
http://img233.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc03485bf8.jpg

5Watt Blue in very dark room ... no Flash
http://img475.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc03487hy9.jpg

5Watt Blue in very dark room ... no Flash
http://img524.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc03488wo5.jpg

5Watt Blue in very dark room ... with Flash
http://img513.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc03490wj7.jpg

5Watt Blue in lit room ... no Flash
http://img220.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc03492es0.jpg

Close-up of the end of the blade on the 5Watt Blue ... with Flash
http://img225.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc03496ma4.jpg

5Watt Blue laying on carpet in lit room ... with Flash
http://img516.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc03500lh9.jpg

[xwingband]

*sigh* I thought I said something on this...

The camera is misleading. My camera can't get rid of the flare on Red LEDs. Not to say the lighting isn't even, that's just not what I see in real life. The eye is biased where a camera sensor is not. Same issue here, that's why I previously was elaborating on.

Comprende everyone?

[Eandori]

Well your blue Lux V does look more even in these photos but it also looks dimmer. Just a little brighter then your Master Replica. Which is strange, because in the other picture posted a long time ago the Lux 3w looked brighter then the replica. Probably just the effect of dark room + camera flash.

When I took the pictures of my sabers below I had no flash but a room with lots of ambient lighting (300w bulb) What I liked about my comparison photo's is how you can clearly see how much brighter it was then the master replicas. I'm sure your Lux V is brighter then your anakin MR, it's just that your picture doesn't show it.

But then again, that's part of what we were talking about. How the Green and Red Luxeon series being relatively brighter then the blue series.

The old HyperDyne Blade comparison
http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/5831/bladepictsgn5.jpg

Your new Lux V MR comparison
http://home.comcast.net/~eandori/LuxV_next_to_MR_flash.JPG

My Red/Orange K2 Custom Saber next to a stock MR Maul and Red Lux III Windu conversion.
http://home.comcast.net/~eandori/RedDiffuseComp2.JPG

My Green Lux V custom saber against stock MR's
http://home.comcast.net/~eandori/TCSS_5.JPG

For the question about my film, I think I had Erv's bigger sheet of film, then like 6-10 layers of cellophane. All of which sit very flat against the inside of my thick polycarb blade. I have a Mylar style reflector at the tip. Pretty much just what Erv' reccomended in his data sheets.

[Jedibum]

Simple correction here ... as I stated in the picture ... that is a NEW MR LUKE ANH ... not the Anakin. It's the new Luke ... I believe Kit Fisto said his new Luke ANH was brighter ... I can't say for sure because I don't have a working Anakin MR.

But again ... as it still has not been addressed ... my 5Watt is bright enough and diffused well enough to make the ENTIRE blade look evenly lit. And I believe my pics prove it.

[gundamaniac]

It's just the simple fact that the camera's sensors don't accurately reflect what our eyes see, especially when you're pointing the camera at bright lights.

In any event, it looks to me like Jedibum's lux pictures pretty accurately capture the brightness of a lux blade...

[Eandori]

Great! Then I'm anxiously awaiting the Green and Red comparisons. Thanks again for all your effort.

[Eandori]

Simple correction here ... as I stated in the picture ... that is a NEW MR LUKE ANH ... not the Anakin. It's the new Luke ... I believe Kit Fisto said his new Luke ANH was brighter ... I can't say for sure because I don't have a working Anakin MR.

But again ... as it still has not been addressed ... my 5Watt is bright enough and diffused well enough to make the ENTIRE blade look evenly lit. And I believe my pics prove it.
By the way, your statement here pretty much supports one of the things I was stating in this thread. A blue luxeon saber is not much brighter then a Blue Master Replica. Your photo above really supports that, especially since you stated that's a luxeon V and well diffused blade.

If you scroll through this thread, you will find many photo's where I'm comparing my green luxeon V saber to a green master Replica. You will also find where I'm comparing a red-orange K2 saber (more red binning Luxeon...) to a Darth Maul Master Replica. In BOTH of those comparisons, the master Replica didn't hold a candle to the luxeon saber.

So your picture of blue lux V to Blue MR above being equal totally supports what I was saying... Blue Luxeon underperforms relative to other luxeons, Green Lux V sabers and Red Lux III sabers need to be compared to Hyperdyne with similar Green/Red colors before we close the book on this debate.

[Jedibum]

For everyone who is interested ... I will be able to have the Green comparison pics up next week!

And I have an Erv blade now, as Eandori said earlier in the thread ... I do see that Erv is able to create excellent diffusion in his blades. Top notch work Erv! Having said that, I do not think there is a huge gap between Ultra's blades and Erv's ... and at the brightness level we are all interested in it may not matter very much. But nevertheless, Erv's blades are awesome and I am glad I have one now!

As with the previous comparison pics, I will want everyone who is interested to help decide what the set-up is for the 5Watt Green! And this time I will take pics of the electronics so you guys can see your choices wired together.

There are some new choices you guys can pick from ... here's what I've got:

BLADES - Erv; Ultra; TCSS Thick-Walled; Corbin; Stock MR

DRIVERS - Erv's 2.61 Crystal Focus Saber Core; Ultra's S.T.E.V.E. Sound Board; Straight from the batteries w/resistor

BATTERY: - Lithium-ion battery pack (installed by Erv for his Board); 7.2V AAA 1000mAh NIMH battery pack; 7.2 Li-ion 1000mAh battery pack; 8 AAA battery pack; Two 9Volt batteries

[gundamaniac]

I think most likely people will want to see the erv blade with the buttered toast. but i'm not sure what they'll want for batteries.

[Jedibum]

Thats what I think people will choose too. Also, this time I will be taking video as well as pictures! So everyone will get to see video of the blades turning on and laying next to each other.

[gundamaniac]

Ooh, video would be really neat. This should be really good. Now we can see how a 5-watt green stacks up.

I'm quite psyched about getting to see a hyperdyne green too. I only saw a blue in person (not sure about the version though) and it blew me away.

Though, regardless of the outcome, i'll stick to Luxes. I'm too poor for a hyper =(. And I like having light regardless of having a blade in the saber or not :lol:

[Novastar]

I think most likely people will want to see the erv blade with the buttered toast. but i'm not sure what they'll want for batteries.For the record, the "Erv" blade is essentially what Eandori did for his custom "proto" saber. He told me specifically that he followed Erv's guidelines, as detailed on Erv's site.

To make things *relatively* clear on diffusers, we have the following sort of styles--the mainstream ones. Others can most certainly happen, but anyhow:

* MRFX diffuser -- not very good for Luxeons, but--it is indeed there for those who wish to use it.
* Corbin's film -- whether single, double, quad, etc. This is a film/paper wrap, and can prove difficult to handle. Can shift or twist, but rarely "dents". Offers the cool "texture" and optical illusion of the white "coring" effect. I love that, although the even light thing doesn't happen so much with Corbin's film during ambient light situations.
* TCSS diffuser -- I believe it's polypropylene... anyhow, most people know that it is the milky white more "solid" diffuser that can be pulled out. Cannot shift or twist, but can "dent". Pretty even overall. Very easy to insert/remove. Thus far, only size TCSS has will fit thick-walled blades.
* Ultra/Gelukhan/"gift" wrap diffuser -- Essentially a very careful wrap of thin, clear cellophane/plastic wrap. Questionable as to exactly how many "layers" to use, but you must wrap MANY to use it correctly. Can shift or twist--but not easily. Rarely would "dent".

* Erv / ????? diffuser -- Essentially Corbin's + Ultra/Gelu style. For the mostpart. Obviously gains the benefits of both styles... and the negatives too.

I'm not sure the style of diffuser that Jim uses, but I imagine it is designed to do its best to even out the lights, hide the individual LEDs, but also not take too much light away. I have been told that it is quite similar to the MRFX diffuser, but I have not seen one of Jim's blades all taken apart--so there is no reason to speculate further.

And hey... thanks again Jedibum for doing all of this!!! I'm really glad to have someone like you aboard who is willing to share, debate, work with people and try to help explain things!

I know this is a terrible a question but... are you a guy or a girl?? :D I somehow got the idea that it was you in some photos with STs behind you and what not? I can't remember why I thought that, but then again my week's been crazy busy and lots of light & sound has flashed by my eyes, lol...

[erv]

Hi there,
don't want to show off with just adding my 2 cents, so I'll try to be as "honnest" and not biaised too much.

First point, no doubt, the HB is damn bright. Now, Edwin is wondering how much.
Despite the fact that I don't agree on every point with Jim for design aspect and electronic cooking n' recipe stuff, he's an engineeer... and he has always been showing pictures from sabers (individual blades, or comparisons) with the FOCAL and APERTURE numbers. I appologize if the vocabulary is not correct.
I wish marsupial was around, he's much better about photography than me.
Not that all the comparison pics that have been made so far, in the 10 or 20 posts above are useless, thanks all for making that, but without :
- the used Aperture
- zoom used
- shutter speed / exposition time
- equivalent sensitivity (200 / 400 asa etc)

all that is... useless.
** First point, except if you're using a reflex camera, most of the cheap digital cameras are going auto to maximize the evenness of the pic. If the light measurement is taken on the blade, it is going to false everything.
Go manual. Use the Tv mode, priority to the speed, and adjust the speed and corresponding focal.
Annotate the pics with the settings used.

** Try to under expose the pic, otherwise, you won't see the color. Use a -1 or -2 on the exposure. Note the settings and apply to ALL pictures.

** I don't ask a special treatment for luxeon in the comparison process, however, don't forget that the idea is base on lightguide + diffusion (for my blade topology). Picturing a luxeon blade too close to another blade will destroy the way it look ALONE. Please don't put ourselves in the comparison situation of which is brighter than the other when touching each other, we KWOW it cannot work. The topic is overall individual brightness. Take individual shots, like it's been done before. Same exact location, same orientation. Use a camera stand.

** don't expect the lumen numbers to directly be a comparison with the Hyperblade. Jim said that on the paper, the blade is 200 candelas, or more with the V2 (?). We talk lumen for luxeon cause it's measured on a radiation angle (in steradian degree). Then it's focalized with an optics, goes thur a diffusion process etc. On the HB, each led has its own candelas value, which is more about "overall brightness", even if not totally tru since the LED are flat on the PCB, but it's not the point.
What you can say is that more lumens will probably give more light to the blade, but does not provide a real comparison element with the HB

** Comparison is worth if all blades are pictures by the same camera, with same settings, same luxeon blades. People said for instance that the ultra blade was the best diffuser. Ultra technique is not diffusing, but it's lightguide, that why it's been called opticfiber. Very even. Good diffusion, but not the best, IMO. Whatever, it's not the point neither.

We have edwin on his side with MR, and damn bright lux V. All we need is that edwin get a a reflex camera and a (prerably green) HB.

And please (I'm not pointing anyone) : stay away from mine is bigger than yours, or I can draw the whole alphabet on snow pis$ing in my garden. Some of us are scientist. Let's behave like that. Create the experimental situation. Measure. Picture the "truth", don't try to fabricate it.
Again, general point of view, not pointing anyone.
I love luxeon, but I'm considering other works, I don't do like it does not exist. However, I'd love to see how luxeon can be improve and how far or close it's getting to the brightness technology. And not with one or the other saying it's useless, or that it's already brighter etc.
I'm like St Thomas, I prefer to see things with my eyes, or at least, with professionnal pictures / techniques.

Now, all what has been done does not deserve the junkyard. Not at all. Thanks to everyone for the time spent making picts. But please, no fight, but FACTS :D
Have a good week end !

PS : By the way, jedibum, now you own one of my saber, I'd love to see it pictured as I've described above. Separated from the blue HB, maybe slightly underexpose to keep it away from white saturation, same conditions. I know it's not the same color, but just for my records :D
(email me the pics if you don't feel like posting them here, thanks !!)

Erv'

[LAN-ED-TUL]

which Edwin are you refering to Erv?

cuz my first name is Edwin as well.

[erv]

sorry about that, I meant Eandori :)
Erv'

[Eandori]

Another Edwin! Fantastic! Don't meet many Edwins. :)

Yeah, I'm Edwin Tracy and like Erv' said I work as an Engineer for Intel. I do hardware and software design for prototype devices on the Flash Memory group. I also spent nearly 5 years doing motherboard BIOS design/maintenance for Intel. Chances are, if you are using an Intel motherboard, you probably have code that I wrote on it!

Not that my experience with flash memory or PC's has anything to do with lightsabers. But I do feel that my experience in electronics and engineering does give me at the very least a basis to give to this community. In the form of research and statistical perspective.

Anyways, back to sabers.

I agree with Erv' that a very un-biased and apples to apples comparison is the best thing to do. But I'm not sure we can do that. Even if 2 cameras have the exact same settings and come from the same manufacturer they can differ. One may have optic sensor arrays more sensitive then the other. Also ambient light plays a huge role in photos.

That is why I chose to include master replicas in my photos. Many of us have them, they are most likely pretty close to each other in performance. This is because although 1 LED can vary in performance to another, when you line up 64 LED's in a row you are now playing into the simple law of averages. You are far more likely to get a stable result when comparing something to a string of 64 LED's rather then a device powered by 1 LED.

To be more specific, I would expect one Luxeon Saber to vary greatly to another. But one MR or even one Hyperdyne saber to be VERY similar to another. More light sources = less room for random variance.

So... my feeling is this...

For saber comparisons we should do our best to match the environment. Match camera settings, room lighting, distance to the camera, etc. But 1 step past that, is set your saber to be compared next to a master replica with fresh batteries. I truely think that will yeild the "most comparable" results.

Jedibum, you rock. Your effort on this thread and for the lightsaber community is awesome and we are very fortunate to have you there. Same goes to Novastar, Erv', Tim from TCSS, Xwingband, etc. I'm really looking forward to seeing your Green Lux V comparison. Now, about that...

You said
BLADES - Erv; Ultra; TCSS Thick-Walled; Corbin; Stock MR

DRIVERS - Erv's 2.61 Crystal Focus Saber Core; Ultra's S.T.E.V.E. Sound Board; Straight from the batteries w/resistor

BATTERY: - Lithium-ion battery pack (installed by Erv for his Board); 7.2V AAA 1000mAh NIMH battery pack; 7.2 Li-ion 1000mAh battery pack; 8 AAA battery pack; Two 9Volt batteries
I would say this... my personal preference for a VERY high performance Luxeon Saber.

-Erv's method for blade diffusion (as even as possible, since Hyperdyne by it's very construction nature is even.)
-Crystal Focus driver board.
-Green Luxeon V LED, drive it at 1 amp (setting of 46 in config file for LEDCURRENT)
-5 degree optic lens
-8 AA batteries is best, since Erv's board requires an input voltage ABOVE the forward voltage of your Luxeon LED. Green Lux V is 6.85v and a 7.2v battery drops below that voltage after some time. Thus giving you a "dimmer" saber.
-In the config file for CF be sure to set the shimmer depth value at some point that matches what the Hyperdyne saber. Point of fact, a shimmer "dims" the blade on camera. The deeper the shimmer, the dimmer the blade. So try to play with that value and match the simmer on both of them. Or eliminate it on both of them if you can.
-It's best if the saber blade lengths matches for each of the sabers. Luxeon of course gets dimmer the longer the blade is.

I would include a Luke ROTJ master replica along with the other two sabers (Green Lux V and Green Hyperdyne) if you have it. Good basis of comparison for the rest of us to see how bright those two are compared to a well known standard.

Thanks again for all your effort!!!!

[gundamaniac]

It's great to see how many standards are being set to try and aim for the fairest and least biased comparison possible, but I can't help but feel sorry for Jedibum for having to cater to the FSM's every demand. Hope to see the piccies soon!

[xwingband]

Eandori, the 8AA would have to be rechargeable and not standard alkalines. The limit of Erv's board is 11V.

IMO, it's either Erv blade and board or Ultra's blade and board. As I just mention the 8AA of standard batteries would be cool if you had a buckpuck or something, but that is still a limit for soundboards.

So battery wise I'd go for the li-ions and make sure they are fully charged.

[Eandori]

Good point, yeah Ni-MH and Ni-Cad are both 1.2v while Alkaline are 1.5v per cell. So I should have specified that. I just assumed everybody is using rechargable AA cells instead of Alkaline for custom sabers, but you are right ot call that out.

Li-Ions are killer for being high capacity, lightweight, and current limited (from onboard circuits) but the 3.7v per cell that most deal with is kinda rough. Just 2 of those is probably good enough for Luxeon V for awhile, since they will probably meter out around 3.9v per cell until they start dropping. That's 7.8v overall, well above what's needed to properly drive a Lux V on Erv's board. BUT if the test goes too long and the voltage drops below like 7... then your blade will start to dim. I'm personally switching to 8x 1.2v 2400 MAh NiMH cells on my proto2 saber soon. Just to get around that problem with the Lux V. As a side note I verified it's ok to stack 8x 1.2v cells on Erv's board with Erv' himself.

The Li-Ion are also really fat. (most people use the 18650's). It's hard to get 2 of them side by side in most saber bodies. I will love it when they become more available on the market with different cell sizes and voltages.

Would a buckpuck be able to put out the near 7 watts for what we are going for? Green Luxeon V at 1 amp? I know Erv's board can because I'm doing it now.


It's great to see how many standards are being set to try and aim for the fairest and least biased comparison possible, but I can't help but feel sorry for Jedibum for having to cater to the FSM's every demand. Hope to see the piccies soon!

Agreed. Jedibum kicks ass for doing all this stuff. Heck, I would donate a few bucks to the effort if a good contact email or paypal account was available.

[Jedibum]

Hi guys! Sorry, I have been away for a couple of days and haven't been able to post. I haven't read all the post since my last post, but I promise to go back and read and make sure I answer any questions that have been posted.

I should have 2 more Green 5Watt's by the middle of next week! I made another purchase from the store ... got the new emitter too! I just can't help it ... I'm insane! LOL

While I go back and read the posts, I want to know what you guys think about the video idea? In my quick scan of the posts it looks like there are some excellent arguments about how getting an honest picture of the 2 different technologies is difficult to say the least ... what do you guys think about me taking video of the different sabers turning on in the same shot? Is video better or worse? Is it something I should definitely do along with the pictures? You guys are the masters, let me know!

[Eandori]

Hey Jedibum,

You are insane!! Possibly TCSS's best customer!

My kneejerk reaction about video comparisons is the same situations for cameras. All the same theories apply, since it's the same type of photoelectronics that are capturing the video. A digital camera just does the same thing as a digital video camera... but with a faster frame capture and usually much lower resolution. Digital video recorders still suffer from over/undersaturation, ambient light skewing, light wavelength filtering, etc. Exactly the same as a camera.

So your native video will be very similar to digital photo's taken very quickly from a low resolution digital camera.

HOWEVER...

When we edit these videos and compress them so they are viewable online, that does bad things to them. Flicker effects disappear, images become even lower resolution by effects such as macro blocking, pixelation, horizontal/vertical tearing, flaring, halo effect, etc. All artifacts of video compression. I can tell you for sure that my YouTube video's looked A LOT better when played directly off my video camera to my television.

If we are looking to compare brightness, evenness, I would think a series of photographs might be better. Especially since we can share the native bitmaps which have no compression at all and the original picture is probably 4 times the resolution of most video cameras.

BUT if you are looking to compare flicker effects, sounds, anything that requires successive frames, video is awesome for that.

[LAN-ED-TUL]

well, i am gonna run a puck to run my LV green led in my new MHS hilt.

and soon as Tim gets them in stock, i will get a 7.2V 2600Mah pack to run in there, with recharge port.

[gundamaniac]

The video sounds like a good idea.

I'm a bit concerned though in that most videos of lightsabers tend to overexpose the blades and give them a roto-scoped movie-like effect, regardless of what kind of saber it is (the original star-o's, the 3's, the k2s, the 5's, hyperdyne's, even master replicas...)...which won't really help in our comparison of brightness. Here's hoping your camera doesn't play tricks like that.

[Jedibum]

Ok, finally caught up on the posts!

Hi Novastar! The Hyperblade diffusion is first the LED blade is wrapped in a type of thin bubble style wrap to protect the LED's. Then the are pushed into a 3/4 Nylon style tube ... then that tube is pushed into a 1" Nylon style tube.

I'm actual both a Guy and a Girl! But not at the same time lol. When I post on TCSS I am almost always a Girl (Jen). I can't take credit for the name "Jedibum" ... that was Matt ... he came up with it because ... well ... he's a bum ... who loves lightsabers lol.

Hi Erv! Nothing else to say, just saying Hi! :) Also, excellent analysis of the problem with taking pictures. As I posted before ... I really want your input about taking video and if that's a good or bad option. Oh, and I would be more than happy to take picture of anything you wanted! Send me a PM if you still have specific requests on what you want compared and how you want the pics taken. I will do everything I can to get it exactly the way you want it.

Hi Eandori! Now that I have Erv's blade and CF 2.61, I can use it in the test! I'll make sure the ledcurrent is set to 46 and I will use a 5 degree optic lens. Also, I will have the saber charging right before the pics. I will set everything up and I will only unplug the saber when I am ready to take it immediately to the pics/video so the 5Watt is getting the best Voltage/Current possible. Good note on the shimmer! I think my hyperblade is set-up without any shimmer, so I will make sure the 5Watt doesn't have it also. The problem is gonna be having a stock MR Green blade! :( Right now, I only have stock MR Red and Blue blades. Would it be possible to through one of those into the shot and have it help or will the fact that it's a different color make it not worth it?

Hi xwingband! I will be getting two 5Watt Greens ... if you think I should do it, I can hook up the other 5Watt Green to an Ultra board with an Ultra blade for pics too. Let me know if you think I should, or if I should just stick to the CF only.

[Eandori]

Hi Eandori! Now that I have Erv's blade and CF 2.61, I can use it in the test! I'll make sure the ledcurrent is set to 46 and I will use a 5 degree optic lens. Also, I will have the saber charging right before the pics. I will set everything up and I will only unplug the saber when I am ready to take it immediately to the pics/video so the 5Watt is getting the best Voltage/Current possible. Good note on the shimmer! I think my hyperblade is set-up without any shimmer, so I will make sure the 5Watt doesn't have it also. The problem is gonna be having a stock MR Green blade! Right now, I only have stock MR Red and Blue blades. Would it be possible to through one of those into the shot and have it help or will the fact that it's a different color make it not worth it?
Howdy :)

Well the highest value MR to "level set the playing field" would definitely be the same color as the sabers you are comparing. Because if your camera was more/less sensitive to green or blue you would eliminate that problem. However, I would personally rather see at least a blue MR next to them then nothing. Although the wrong color MR has less value... I do think it's more valuable then no MR at all!

Simply put, a fact of any scientific experiment is that you must have a "control" when comparing things. A standard of measurement, which I think the MR's serve very well for.

Cheers

[xwingband]

Would a buckpuck be able to put out the near 7 watts for what we are going for? Green Luxeon V at 1 amp? I know Erv's board can because I'm doing it now.

Buckpucks are great... they handle up to 32V! :shock: They're used a lot for putting a couple LED's together in series.

Jedibum, Either works... the more the merrier. :) Both are good drivers and blades so it really doesn't matter much. If you photographed them both the only differences should be due the the differences between the two LEDs like forward voltage, color bin, etc...

So if you were trying to document any differences in the two boards (there shouldn't be any!) then to be fair you'd have to keep the same LED by swapping them.

[Jedibum]

Hey guys! Thanks to everyone for being patient! Here's a little something to wet your appetite! This video is just a test.

Here's some quick info:

FROM RIGHT TO LEFT - Stock MR FX Luke Skywalker ANH Lightsaber with new E2 Lithium batteries; Green 5Watt Luxeon LED driven at 1amp (run on 2.61 CF with "ledcurrent" set to 46 ... and a completely static blade ... no flicker or shimmer) with an Erv constructed blade and fully charged; V2 Green Hyperblade with brightness set at MAX level (Level 9 on 11.1Volt Battery) ... no flicker and fully charged.

Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_03UEVGfRaw

Again ... this is just a test ... much more to come!

[gundamaniac]

Hunh. I would have expected the Lux V to be brighter than the Luke ANH. Or is it just because of the camera?

[Jedibum]

Hi gundamaniac!

The Lux 5 is brighter. Look at the center of the Lux 5 blade ... in the first 1/3 of the blade its white because it's so bright. Also, look at the carpet around the lux5 vs. the MR ... the MR has almost no real significant glow around it. The Lux5 has a lot of glow. In fact even at it's dimmest point it has more glow or at least as much glow as the MR.

[gundamaniac]

Yeah, after I posted I looked at the glow that the blade cast and it is indeed brighter than the MR. I was judging by the overall color of the blade, and the MR looked a bit whiter than the Lux (I wasn't counting the first third of the blade).

I've gotta learn not to judge brightness just by looking at the blade color but also by looking at the amount of glow it casts. I thought my MR Obi was brighter than my green LuxIII til I turned them both on in a completely dark room and realized that the Lux was casting out so much more of an aura than the Obi was.

[killphil]

Well, that settles it, I guess. There just is no comparison to a Hyperblade in terms of brightness.

[Angelus Lupus]

I thought that was the general opinion anyway? In terms of brightness: Hyperblade. In terms of cost, durability, duelability and being able to cram extra goodies in the hilt: Luxeon all the way.

Or was I being naive?

[killphil]

I think you had it right, but there were some folks who doubted that a Hyperblade would be brighter than a lux V with top of the line diffusion.

But in reality, it seems you can't have your cake and eat it too. Hyperblades are the brightest, yes, but they are not nearly as duelable as a Lux and the battery life completely sucks, so there are sacrifices to be had to have the brightest blade out there.

[Eandori]

I thought that was the general opinion anyway? In terms of brightness: Hyperblade. In terms of cost, durability, duelability and being able to cram extra goodies in the hilt: Luxeon all the way.
Well yes and no. That was the opinion, but it was not based on any tests. It's far better to actually perform some tests that clearly show something like that to be the case.

Hi Jedibum, thanks for posting this video! Got a few questions to make sure we know what we are looking at.

I know that you used the right parts for your Green Lux V saber, but it still looks like it's hilt flaring to me. It looks much brighter at the hilt then up the rest of the blade. Did you look inside the tube to make sure that nothing stopped light from reaching all the way to the mirror tip?

Also, is that the Oddy2 saber that Erv' made? I know he built that one with a green K2, not a luxeon V being overdriven. Here is the link to that auction: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=140156041642&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=004
Unless you changed the LED then you would be underdriving the green K2 running it at 1 amp, it wants 1.5amps and even then it's only like 130 lumens compared to the 180 a Lux V at 1 amp does.

Also, you need to verify that the supply voltage in the battery is well above 7.2v when the saber is on. If you did change to a Luxeon V LED in there, it's forward voltage is 6.85v and if your battery is lower then that, then Erv's board will NOT supply the 1 amp of current. For my Luxeon V saber I'm now running a 9.6v NiMH battery to make sure I hit the supply voltage and it DOES make a difference! I see from the auction link that Erv built that with a green K2, and has Lithium Ion batteries. If there is 2 of them at 3.7v then it should have enough voltage at a full charge, but will dip later. That's what my 7.2v NiMH pack did.

Having said that, yeah it does seem apparent that Hyperblade is brighter then the saber you are showing there, even when you compare it to green. Again, we should refrain from calling it a "5 watt green." It's a Luxeon V series, and at 1 amp and 6.85v it's 6.85 watts of power.

[Angelus Lupus]

I agree the comparisons are very helpful. In my opinion the luxeon isn't [i[too[/i] far behind the hyperblade, apart from blade evenness of course. And as we all know, the technology for luxeons (or any in-the-hilt LEDs) is increasing all the time

[Eandori]

I agree the comparisons are very helpful. In my opinion the luxeon isn't [i[too[/i] far behind the hyperblade, apart from blade evenness of course. And as we all know, the technology for luxeons (or any in-the-hilt LEDs) is increasing all the time
That's pretty much what I was expecting to see. Green Luxeon is a hell of a lot brighter then blue Luxeon so I figured at the very least it would be a closer comparison.

[Jedibum]

Hi everyone! There are more pics and stuff to come! And I also have now acquired a Light Meter. I have not used it yet, but I will soon.

To answer some questions ...

1). The blade is made by Erv ... I looked, nothing is blocking the light from going all the way up. I can take different pics of the 5 Watt Green ALONE that will show the blade evenness if you guys want me too.

2). Yes this is the Oddy2 saber from Ebay. It originally came with a K2 Green. But I ordered two 5 Watt Green Luxeons from Tim, and when they came I changed out the K2 Green for a 5 Watt Green. I then changed the "ledcurrent" to 46 (as I was instructed to do) to push the 5 Watt to 1amp. The Oddy2 is running on 7.2v Lithium Ion batteries. I know that the 5 Watt will dip in brightness after a short time so the Video was taken after both the HYPERBLADE and the ODDY2 had received a FULL charge. They were only unplugged from their chargers for a few seconds before the video was shot.

[Eandori]

Thanks for the response, that's good enough for me! :)

Jedibum, you rock. Thanks a ton for putting all this effort into the testing and helping the rest of us see. Sorry I needed to push you so hard, but the proper comparison really needed to be done before we could easily make the blanket statements about Hyperblades being brighter. Which they appear to be!

Some day... in the future... I'm going to have some cash on hand to either build or buy a blue Hyperblade. I love blue lightsabers but Blue Luxeon is just not bright enough for me. I have a blue Anakin MR converted to Lux III blue with good optics and upgraded blade. It works for now and it's really sturdy, but I want my blue lightsaber near my green and red ones :)

Thanks again!

[Novastar]

I agree, Jedibum rocks for doing his test comparison video/videos.

I made a few also, so if you feel like taking a gander... enjoy!

Light Comparison -- http://youtube.com/watch?v=k5Ws91SGpDA
Pros & Cons -- http://youtube.com/watch?v=32NPDfSA7bk

Edwin, you are welcome to have me ship these guys your way when and if you're ready to test them. You're welcome to try to restore/fix the blades or change things around... after all--you're WAAAAY better versed in electronics compared to myself.

[Eandori]

Hey Novastar,

Sure, please ship the green Hyperdyne to me and I'll see what I can do about getting it fixed. I also want to do some measurements on the the driver board and see how the routed the PCB on the blade. I suspect it might be possible to pack a much better capacity battery into a Hyperdyne setup.

Once I have the setup working as solidly as i can get it, I'll take note of what components are in the saber do a comparison with my Proto2 with a Luxeon V at 1 amp. I'm very positive that my Proto2 is a super evenly lit lightsaber, that really was my whole goal more then anything else. You can pretty much see that in my pictures and video. Especially look at the Proto2 video in my signature. At the end I'm holding the blade right up to the camera and you can't really hardly see ANY more light on the middle or tip compared to the hilt.

I'll respond with a video and stats after the repairing and comparison. How about that?

[Novastar]

That sounds great, as long as you leave the recharge port the way it is for now, and only use Li-Ion (so that I can recharge it/use it later on). Also, I would think we should leave it at 11.1v and not tempt the fates.

But yeah, 11.v or whatever xxxxxmah you can get would be great!!