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View Full Version : Thin-Walled blades w/ Ultra/Gelu style film...



Novastar
07-17-2007, 04:31 PM
Hi all... some questions for those of you out there who use thin-walled blades...

I'm thinking about using some thin-walled blades for BOP III in order to allow for the choreography to step up into the speed of fan-film-ness action.

If I do this, it's likely that I will have my performers use the thick-walled blades for most practices, and then they will "graduate" backwards so-to-speak to being able to use the thin-walled blades!

So here are the questions:

Anyone in here break a thin-walled after some monstrous dueling? If so--was it against another thin-walled or against something else?

Anyone ever combine the thin-walled with a Gelu/Ultra diffuser style setup + a coating of spray on the outside of the blade? Let me know what you found...

Anyone ever try the THICK-WALLED TIPS in the THIN-WALLED blade in order to allow for some "give" so that the tip doesn't fly off? I'm thinking about putting a soft O-ring in the gap so that the blade's flexion doesn't cause the tip to get pushed out...

That's about it for now... BOP II footage only about ONE DAY away from release!!!

Hasid Lafre
07-17-2007, 04:42 PM
Well one of the thinwalled blades I used here agenst my brother stood up pritty well.

IIRC what we want to keep the blades from braking is to have them flex and a tinwalled blade will do that better than a thick walled.

I tryed a thickwalled tip on a thinwalled and it popted off from a miss attack and ended up tapping the ground and it popted.

and yes it was glued quite well.

I think training with thin walled blades would be best that way it forces them to learn to pull back there strikes. I would go full bore with a thinwalled but if I had the right tip I would be abel to tell you but as of late I havent heard of anyone damaging a thinwalled blade.

Also I would try something that you might like. Take about 4 foot of ultras or whoevers alike film and use a double wrap of corbins outside of ultras or whoevers. Gives it a nice effect and as i understand a much better ifnition retract look which I think for your stage performanceing it would look great on camera.

Novastar
07-18-2007, 06:23 AM
Thanks for the thoughts, Hasid. I've never used thin-walled blades for staged combat, so this is why I'm looking. I have a feeling it would actually be a BAD idea... but yes, testing is where it's at.

I installed my own thin-walled setups last night into the Flange v3 sabers. I knew that they'd be much lighter, but wow--it's ridiculous how quickly I can move those suckers around. Much better balance, and better light (naturally)... but at what cost for performances? We'll see.

By the way, the extension/retraction effect does not show up very well on film unless you're pretty close to the camera, and also if the lighting situation is ideal. BOP I & II had a myriad of "saber types", including FX-driven sabers, Corbin-driven sabers, and so forth... and you can barely tell the difference given the action. I never thought this effect was needed for our purposes, but it is neat. Erv's board MIGHT show up better, but I've yet to see.

Again--from far away. Up close--well, certainly you see it... such as in the Flange v3 videos I made at Kit Fisto's request.

Hasid Lafre
07-18-2007, 06:48 AM
Hum I figured it would show up better regardless.

When I was being video'd by my friends digi cam when I turned my saber on it appeared to have the growing blade effect. Granted you could see the poly tube but It was pritty sweet.

Novastar
07-18-2007, 06:53 AM
Exactly, Hasid... but again--when there is more in the frame than just yourself... the effect tends to go unnoticed.

Also--as you might see in BOP I (and II which I should release today)... we don't spend a lot of time with the blades off... ;)

Hasid Lafre
07-18-2007, 06:56 AM
Yeah I did notice that.

Kinda hard to hide a blade for a stage performance.

Marsupial
07-19-2007, 09:11 AM
I've been using thin-walled blades for about 2 years now.

I have corbin-style filters, and ultrablades in the thinwall size. I also have thick ultrablades.

All my thin-walled blades have a thinwalled-sized shouldered tip - some were stock Ultrablades, some I got from Corbin's componnents before the merge.

What happens on the thinwalled is MORE TIP POPS OUT. The added flex of the thinner blades is bad on keeping those puppies in place, even with the appropriately sized shouldered tip. I believe we should have a longer shouldered section. Maybe rubber O-ring would help, I'd like to hear on that.

As for robustess... I never managed to break any blades yet. I duel very hard, more then most people here I believe. I'm thinking about getting body armor for lightsaber dueling.

Novastar
07-19-2007, 11:01 AM
Mars... thanks for the thoughts. I might just go for the whole thin-walled blades thing for BOP III and so forth. Also, it would probably help the kids in my classes to have less "heavy" blades.

I agree that more flexion will cause more tips to fly--it's another reason why I STRONGLY feel that something has to be done about tips becoming more of rubbery plugs.

Corbin mentioned that any glue he used on such experiments (when trying to bond a tip to a poly-c)... would melt the tips. :(

Still, I think another possibility is the o-ring and using more "thick-walled" style tips in the THIN-WALLED blades. I'm trying that now, and it appears to have enough give so that it really doesn't fly out. But... I haven't had months of experience with it yet (obviously) since I just started.

Hasid Lafre
07-19-2007, 12:11 PM
I second that the tips shoulders should be longer. think longer like a regular tip with a mirror on it long.

UltraSWG
07-20-2007, 10:32 PM
My tips used to have 1/4" deep shoulders, twice as deep as we make them now. We went to 1/8" shoulders because they look better. You see, it's kind of wierd having a 1/4" gap between the lighting film and the glowing tip. I don't think deeper shoulders are the solution. I agree with Nova and think we need some kind of rubbery tip that can flex.

Novastar
07-20-2007, 11:12 PM
Glad to hear from you Alex. And congrats on seeing the light at the end of the tunnel (so to speak) on Ultrasound!! I'm very much looking forward to it.

I agree that deeper tips won't make a difference, in fact in might make it worse.

Flexion is the problem my friends. Physics will launch those tips into the darn atmosphere. Either we do what MR did (glue them to the diffuser), or go rubber/silicone/vinyl.

I am all for that, although I think some glues will be out of the question for it.

UltraSWG
07-20-2007, 11:32 PM
Gluing to the diffuser may work for plastic diffusers, but not for blade films. Silicon doesn't stick to polyC very well, but I'm sure there are some other clear rubbers out there that may. I'm sure with so many great minds researching this, that we're bound to find a solution.

djbordie
07-24-2007, 05:23 AM
ultra, i busted one of your blades the 2nd time i used it...but we were going pretty hard and it was a 1/16 wall vs corbin style 1/8 wall
and it broke nicely at the top so i just belt sanded her down and re attached the tip...so no problem.
just a bit shorter now, but thats fine and im using it on my mr mace wh9ich is not going to be duelled anyways cause the holder is so short.

and as a side note, im real impressed with the k2 white mr mace, very nice tim.

djbordie
07-24-2007, 01:09 PM
and btw, i noted earlier on another post.

the best way to deal with the tips flying off is chemicals that fuse the plastic together.

like:

resin bond
and
metholyne chloride

i metholyne chloride my tips on and have never had one fly off...only the complete corbin i bought from tim flew off eventually...

but seriously, meth is amazing, it makes the tip and the blade one fuzed piece.

Hasid Lafre
07-24-2007, 01:22 PM
Well Djbordie. thats not something you want to talk about online ya know. :P

J/K I knew what you ment...but others wont...

pockets
07-24-2007, 01:25 PM
Well Djbordie. thats not something you want to talk about online ya know. :P

J/K I knew what you ment...but others wont...

no i'm pretty sure everone will know what he meant... its called context

Hasid Lafre
07-24-2007, 01:27 PM
Jesus people cant make a joke.