Christianity and Star Wars

[ti-el_terall]

Last Sunday my there was a sermon at my Church where the reverend said Star Wars was sacriligiouse. I dont really know what to do, my Youth Minister has seen all my SW stuff nad he even asked if he could use the lightsaber in a lesson. I personally think that it is nonsense, but what does everyone here think about Star Wars and there religion?


Heres the best commetn Iv recieved on the other board.

Originally Posted by JediG60racer
Wow, just wow. All I can say is that preacher did an incredible disservice to all followers of Christ by making those statements about Star Wars. I question his theological education in making remarks of that nature.

I'm a pastor, been serving in ministry for 15 years. I've acted as youth pastor, music pastor, outreach pastor, teaching pastor, police chaplain, navy chaplain, marriage and family counselor, college/career pastor, young adults pastor, young marrieds pastor, connections pastor (lengthy boring description for that).

And I've been president of one of the most active Star Wars fan clubs in the nation, served in that capacity for 4 years. It's a movie with a lot of fans, myself included. Entertainment. If that preacher only entertains himself by sitting in a room by himself praying, then maybe he has a foot to stand on as far as condemning other people's methods of entertainment. Maybe. But if he so much as watches a football game or any sporting event, or watches TV, or reads books other than the Bible, than he has no place to make such remarks, for all of those fall into the same category he just placed Star Wars into.

All that to say, as far as orthodox Christian beliefs go, the Bible speaks very clearly that believing in Christ revolves in FREEDOM from having to follow rules (Galations 5:1) and there are plenty of guidelines about how one is supposed to not judge other people, but love other people. Matt 22 pretty much sums up the whole of the Bible and the main guidelines to follow: love God and love people. Period. If you do those things, then everything else falls into place.

1 Cor 6:12 does say that all things are permissible but not all things are beneficial -- Star Wars has been beneficial, not otherwise. It's brought me into friendships and relationships I would otherwise not have the pleasure of, and opened avenues for ministry in people's lives for me as a pastor. When I look at Jesus' example of how he lived, the person whose example I'm supposed to follow, I see that he hung out with all the people that the religiously self righteous people said not to. So I can say without any hesitation that with Star Wars fans, now that a religiously self righteous person has said to avoid, is exactly where Christ would want me to be spending time.

And yeah, you probably want to go find another church if that sort of teaching is run of the mill there. Christianity is about freedom and living life abundantly, not about rules and regulations and do-nots. Lots of good, authentic churches out there where it's okay to be a real person and be imperfect. I encourage you to find one.

My response was

I really aree with what you have said here, our Pastor has had many sermons on "evil" things. I really wish I could just go to naouther Church but I have a strong bond with the other Youth there and I am still young enough to be in the Youth Group for the service so I dont have to listen to his sermons. Alot of other members think hes a tad crazy, almost like when you see a show hacve someone do a sermon where they say "DO ___ AND YOU WILL BURN IN HELL!" (I know everyone here has seen a show that has done that).

To sum up the sermon her basically said the Jedi were the Pharasies, the Costumes were Muslem and Budist.

My question is, If Jedi are the bad guys, is Darth Vader God?!

Please note: I dont want to start a Religiouse debate

[Novastar]

I will speak about this, as I have absolutely no political "alignment" nor any religious one as well.

Ok, are you ready? If you are reading--hear me out... COMPLETELY first! If you stop reading too soon, you will entirely miss an important point about a simple fact that I doubt ANYONE can disagree with...

Religion boils down to "in what do you believe"... about a great many things.

But to me--belief... is irrelevant. Thought is also irrelevant. Group belief is something that comforts people--in that they feel less alone if they all share "the same" ideals, concepts, or knowledge. Whatever those concepts are, as long as they are similar, people feel more comforted. That is also mindless and meaningless.

The reality is... ACTIONS dictate what the world is and is not. Those who take action and DO things... are remembered, and have impact. Those who "believe" in something (without actually helping to perpetuate it)... are not remembered, and have very little impact... and they really don't "believe" in that something at all... as they do not stand up and defend or improve that in which they "believe".

Examples: If I "believe" in protecting children... but I never DO anything about it... I never take ACTION to help further that cause... then my belief is meaningless, and irrelevant--as good as it might make me feel. Dreaming or thinking about "buying nachos" does not equate to actually DOING it. Further, it wastes precious time and energy during the course of your life.

If anyone wishes to draw religious paraboles to Star Wars--you'll find that there are plenty that can be drawn. Just as some made interesting comparisons of The Wizard Of Oz to many "relevant" issues during the book's time.

But in the end... none of that matters. Nor will it ever, especially years from now. What matters... and what matters SOLELY... is what you DO with your beliefs. What causes you to take action in life, and what impact will you have?

Many people I know have absolutely no "religious" alignment... and they have done, aided, constructed and contributed far more... than some so-called "religious leaders" whom I have met, heard of, or seen.

In the end--I hope those who are reading will choose to be more of a DOER rather than simply a "believer". It is up to you. I'm positive all of us know what line from ESB actually sums my entire point up in that small line. There is barely a hidden message here.

So get out there. Stop thinking so much, stop fearing what MIGHT happen, and instead... GO DO IT. Make "it" happen--that which you believe. Surprised you might be--how things turn out they do... ;)

[Nightwing]

Okay, okay, okay.
We need to stop this thread before it goes any further.
The only other Christianity/religion thread we had on here turned into an all-out brawl between myself, DesertScorpion, and Ultra.

As long as we can keep the discussion on the intended topic (whether or not SW is sacrilegious) and not insult each others' beliefs, we'll be fine.

[Jacen_Aurion]

I fail to see how Star Wars is sacriligious. I am a Christian, in my systematic theology class at school we discussed the whole idea of "the force" that there is a force which controls everything. While I agree that there are definite Good and Bad Sides, I disagree with the idea that they balance each other out. Because I'm a Christian, I believe that Jesus' death on the cross defeated the Devil and that through faith in him, my sins are paid for in full.

[chase]

i personally dont think star wars is sacreligous. i think that people who say things like that have nothing better to do besides try to figure out things that are evil. i think jesus's message was to do good things. not that star wars is evil.

[Hasid Lafre]

While Iam not religious I do have faith in something.

Persionally I think the guy is a lunatick. SW is just that a fantacy movie story.

Dont listen to him hes the kinda person that would be at a meating burning our fantacy.

Also Does that one person impact your fath? is he the one that should stear your fath? no only you can do that.

Its your fath in god or who ever else you want to beleave in. you got a bible be your own preacher. and dont listen to other people preach about whats right and whats wrong, you know whats right and wrong.

[nocturne]

I'm agape and aghast.
Actually I'm not that surprised at all.

A lot of books and movies have had this levelled at them.
Harry Potter springs immediately to mind.

Ultimately everything in this world comes down to each individual person's perspective.
I've seen points of the saga used to promote Christianity, I've seen it used as a parallel for the bible.
I've also seen segments of it used to promote other religions.
All because different people have different perspectives of things.

Whilst to the guy who delivered your sermon it may make sense that Star Wars is heresy or sacreligious, it obviously doesn't to you.
If you hold strong to what you believe, and keep your perspective, your following your Christian beliefs while still enjoying star wars. :D

[Jetsi]

Nightwing, it appears from your response that you took offense to Novastar's response, and I don't believe he has or was trying to insult your beliefs.

But back on the subject, the original question was:

If Jedi are the bad guys, is Darth Vader God?!

My answer to this is no. Comparing the Jedi to the Pharises is oranges to apples. While they did have the same belief of a Messiah coming, the Pharises pressured Pilate to crucify Jesus as a false prophet, while the Jedi did no such thing to Anakin as they believed he was the Chosen One. The Jedi can't even be held responsible for his death or the actions that led up to it. So while I would agree with you that the Pharises were the bad guys, the Jedi were not making the argument of Darth Vader being God moot.

As for the question of SW being sacreligious, I don't see how that is possible unless you take offense that your religion wasn't the one solely used, which would be a loose definition of sacreligious. The Force and the actions taken in the movie reflect portions and aspects of numerous religions, the entire concept as displayed is very spiritual but not limited to what we would see as a single belief system.

Remember that SW is what it is. I liken it to the 20th century version of Homer's Odyssey, an epic tale that was shown on film instead of scribed onto parchment. SW has, like the Odyssey, influenced countless individuals like you and I, but it is a work of fiction.

[supertrogdor]

In my humble and biased opinion, StarWars is a classic Hero Story. All classic hero stories have similar key points from which you can draw religious principals. The thing is that individuals draw the principles based on thier experience. You can draw as many or as few of them as you see fit for yourself, but it all comes down to how an individual reacts to something they see based on what they have done in thier life. It works this way not only with StarWars but every hero story, Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, even Rodion Raskalnikov in Crime and Punnishment. Pick any story, real or ficticious, where someone has even a slightly heroic act and religious connections can be made.

[Jacen_Aurion]

Star Wars has several instances that I can point to as a Christian and say, that lines up to something biblically. The first case that comes to mind is Obi-Wan laying down his life for that of Luke, Han, Chewie, 3P0, R2 and Leia. This would line up to Jesus dying on the cross to make a way for everyone to escape eternal damnation, IF they put their trust in him. The big way I like to look at the conflicts in star wars rather than there being a force that has to be 'balanced'. I see Jedi as being SWAT and the Sith as criminals. You could also look at it like Jedi being Special Forces and Sith Lords being Terrorists. If you think about it, Sith Lords and Terrorists are basically the same thing, it's just they kill innocent people for different reasons, Terrorists often kill because they either hate america or because God told them to. Sith Lords just kill because they think it's fun.

[Mor-El Kesav]

First off, I am a Christian. That is a far a distinction as I am willing to make. When Lucas created the philosophy behind the Jedi and the Sith, he pulled from nearly every society and religeon on earth, to include Christianity. I really doubt the intentions and sincerity of someone who bases an entire sermon on the "Evil of Star Wars" when there is so much true evil to expose and clean up. Do they now plan to start burning Star Wars books as they burned Harry Potter books.

Those kinds of actions smack of Fanaticism. Fanaticism in ANY religeon is a dangerous thing. Christians are not free of fanaticism in their churches. Look back to the struggle between the Protestants and the Catholics. Horrors committed by both sides are nearly unspeakable. Catholics torturing Protestants to admit to "crimes" they didn't commit (the Inquisition). Protestants burning Catholics in front of the church after they crucified them.

Try to keep an open, non judgmental mind when listening to "sermons" about this kind of stuff. If the best your church can do is attack something like Star Wars, then perhaps you need to question if they are really meeting your religious needs.

[Nightwing]

(Jetsi: No, I wasn't offended by Nova's comment; I suppose you could say my reaction is comes from experience. In EVERY online forum thread, if at some point Christianity is taken into account, people begin to take sides, and it becomes a war. This nearly always happens when non-Christians spout random anti-Christian nonsense, hence why I said we should be respectful)


Now on to my point...

I am both a Christian and a literature major, and I can say with certainty that you can't create your own literary parallels to support any theory of heresy, since literature can be interpreted virtually any way (it's all perspective). Especially once you take into account the varying descriptions of the Force from the OT, the Prequels, and the EU... eek... :P

Now see, you can technically call Star Wars anti-Christian just by taking into account the fact that the SW universe directly contradicts Christianity. However, different believers have very different views on whether or not this kind of thing is "okay".

The Bible states not to "consult books of witchcraft" (or something to that basic effect), and that "any supernatural power which is not of God is if Satan". Some Christians take this to mean that books which promote any supernatural power (not including sci-fi superheroes and whatnot) other than God are essentially promoting evil (or, at the very least, promoting the idea of a non-God power as a positive thing).

Of course, the real question is "does it matter if it's fiction?"
The Bible never talks about this, but does state that what you expose yourself to will affect you and change you. Therefore, some parents believe that allowing their children to watch Star Wars is, in effect, "opening the door for corruption."
Now, please, resist the urge to lash out and voice your anger towards these people for rejecting something we are all very passionate about. They are only looking out for their kids by doing what they think is right.

Now, do you want my opinion?
I believe that the Bible is intentionally vague about fiction, because different people have different reactions to it. I'm not promoting moral relativism by any means, but I am saying that one's ability to separate reality and fantasy depends on many factors. Now, before you start yelling "anyone can tell reality from fantasy!!", think about this:
If you had the chance to go on some Star Wars-style adventure, would you? Have the films actually had an effect on your desires? Obviously they have, since you're on a forum dedicated to building lightsabers. :D
When I was eight, my parents had to take away nearly all my SW toys because I was becoming too obsessed with the saga. I lived and breathed it to the point where I was seriously replacing my own reality with Lucas's fantasy. Now that I'm older, I don't have that problem. (though I am on these forums. :P)

So my point is that it all comes down to discretion; it's the same as deciding whether or not it's acceptable to watch films with a certain type of content.

[Madcow]

Great conversation all,
I am an ordained minister and a SW fan. I think of myself as a "Jesus-Jedi".
Ti-el, I admire your committment to your friends at church - even if the preacher is a little off. I'm sure he means well.
But if you do want to check out something else - I know a pastor in your area - he was my roomate at Bible College!
http://www.ngate.ca/

I find it so interesting how the word "christianity" means so many different things - good and bad. It makes me want to ditch the word in favor of something less religious and more true to the Cause. I prefer "disciple of Jesus" when refering to myself.

I personally love the way that star wars captures the value of the "mentor" relationship. It is really a lost art in western church and culture that I am trying to re-discover. It's all through the bible.

This book was surprisingly interesting:
http://www.amazon.com/Christian-Wisdom-Jedi-Masters-Staub/dp/0787978949

Nova - check out James 1:22 in the bible:
"Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says. "
It appears God agrees with you.

For the Cause,
MC

[Novastar]

Nova - check out James 1:22 in the bible:
"Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says. "
It appears God agrees with you.

Or perhaps vice-versa. ;)

I did not make up the rules to this world... I really do WISH that "good intentions" made the world a better place. But alas--they do not.

Only through action is anything gained--although it must first be THOUGHT of to actually TAKE action, hehehh.

For the record, I've nothing against any particular religion (nor do I have any favored alignment). I think they are all one in the same... Buddha, Jesus, Allah... they are all aspirations of ours in order to better ourselves and our world.

[Jedi Ranger]

I was not going to post in here, but oh well. No personal thoughts/comments, just a quick story.

On my group's way to LA for C4, several people got cornered (on the plane) by a religious 'extremist', trying to convince them that Star Wars was evil, etc, etc, etc. For the 2.5 hour flight, she kept turning around in her seat to chat at the row behind her, and go on and on. She became known as "the crazy lady." Thankfully, I managed to avoid her, barely.

[DACOTA]

WOW.I too fail to see how sw is religiuous the only thing you can say of star wars is that you can use it as an analogy of the Bible.
Pretend analogy not intended to be taken literally.
Bible=Lightsaber,some people say that the bible is you figurative sword.
Jedi=Gods servants
Force=holy spirit
Anakin=Jesus,exept Jesus did not go to the dark side.
Sidiuos=Satan the Devil.

Thats all I can think of and its simply for kicks,do not take it literally.

[Barmic Rin]

Here's where the real controversy enters the arena.......

Ready.....

Sure......

Okay, no one shoot me down on this.....

Whilst I respect everyone elses beliefs, and I was Christened as a child, I am not Christian.
I have yet to find a word that fits my religious belief.
I never disputed the fact whether God does or does not exist, whether the Bible is a work of fiction rather than an exact history book or anything like that.
As far as I know, there IS a force in the universe that guides us & helps us see through the bad times, and gives us a warm feeling inside when something good happens.
I don't know if this is God, Buddha, Zeus, the Force, Gaea or what.
All I know is that it is there, I believe in something, though I don't feel inclined to give it a name.
In naming something, it makes it yours, and when it's yours, you feel you have to keep & defend it in deed or action.
That is, as we all know the main reason for War. The in-ability to accept that someone else holds a different religious opinion to you.

I accept other peoples beliefs aslong as they don't try to force them upon me. i wouldn't do it to them, so I expect the same courtesy.

As for the whole Star wars/christianity dispute, this has been done to death by many, many people.
Every story is just a re-write of other stories from the past.
Just take a place from here, a character from there & voila!
Your story is complete.

There are references to christianity in the movies, as well as references to Greek myths, Norse Legends etc.

Check out Star wars: The magic of Myth.
Those of you that have it will be able to verify this.



..........Annnnnnnndddddddd, Breathe out............

[Darth Tollo]

I do not see how Star Wars is sacrilegious but apparently if you look hard enough, you can find evil in anything. My mother-in-law is one of those people. My wife and I were going through and watching the original trilogy and she kept saying “I don’t remember this part.” I could not figure out why until we were throwing out some old VHS and she had a tape that said “Star Wars 1, 2 &3.” I popped it in and found the original trilogy but something was missing…THE FORCE. Every scene where the Force was used was removed from the movie. She did this because it was evil. Tell me that isn’t screwed up.

On an interesting note, she recently told me that I am inviting the devil into my home when I saw Harry Potter, because wizards are evil. Then a week later was making a huge fuss about how the Lord of the Rings trilogy is the best and most Godly movies she has seen in a long time. WHAT?!

[james3]

I have a bad feeling about this.

[vortextwist]

I do not see how Star Wars is sacrilegious but apparently if you look hard enough, you can find evil in anything. My mother-in-law is one of those people. My wife and I were going through and watching the original trilogy and she kept saying “I don’t remember this part.” I could not figure out why until we were throwing out some old VHS and she had a tape that said “Star Wars 1, 2 &3.” I popped it in and found the original trilogy but something was missing…THE FORCE. Every scene where the Force was used was removed from the movie. She did this because it was evil. Tell me that isn’t screwed up.

On an interesting note, she recently told me that I am inviting the devil into my home when I saw Harry Potter, because wizards are evil. Then a week later was making a huge fuss about how the Lord of the Rings trilogy is the best and most Godly movies she has seen in a long time. WHAT?!

LOL. that's funny.

[Jetsi]

Tell me that isn’t screwed up.

It isn't screwed up, IMHO. It is her opinion, and I disagree with it like you do, but she has that entitlement.

[Nightwing]

On an interesting note, she recently told me that I am inviting the devil into my home when I saw Harry Potter, because wizards are evil. Then a week later was making a huge fuss about how the Lord of the Rings trilogy is the best and most Godly movies she has seen in a long time. WHAT?!Actually, LOTR is technically almost a biblical allegory. The actual trilogy's story itself is a very small sliver of a much bigger story that includes parallels of biblical events such as the great flood, Lucifer's (Satan's) betrayal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melkor), the angels, Sodom and Gomorrah, etc.

Even the "magic" in LOTR is based off of biblical principle: the wizards are in fact "angelic creatures" known as the ainur (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ainur), who took those physical forms. Sauron, Saruman, and Gandalf are all technically angels (though on different power levels, of course). Heck, in both the films and books, Gandalf claims that he is "a servant of the 'Secret Fire'", and according to many LOTR reference books, "the Secret Fire" is defined as "the Holy Spirit".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secret_fire


That's just about the LOTR part of her argument, though. The rest I don't necessarily agree with.