Saber Tip experiments for poly-tubes... [Archive]

Novastar

06-10-2007, 09:50 PM

Does anyone have any thinking, resources, or experiments regarding saber tips?

After using all kinds of tips over the last few years, I have found that *ALL* current tips WILL come off your saber blade, given the right amount of force and the right amount of hits. Only a matter of time.

So far, there are polycarbonate tips (Ultra) and acrylic ones (TCSS) EDIT: WRONG! I SHOULD SAY TIM SELLS POLY-CARB ONES! SORRY!, and some have been flat half-domes, while others have gravitated toward "shouldered".

Ultimately, I think there are two main reasons why these things fly off:

1. They are HARD, solid materials and do not flex, while the poly tube is hollow, and actually flexible (despite its toughness).
2. Not many glue types are flexible enough to handle the stress the tips will go through.

I have suggested silicone, vinyl or rubber-based tips, but I haven't been able to find any kind of solution that is already pre-made. I have even tried cannibalizing "super balls", sort of already knowing it wouldn't work... but wanted to see. Well, it did not. At least I confirmed it! :)

Also, I've bought some products that might be possibilities, but they really aren't ideal. However, given the materials I've seen--it is entirely possible to do what I'm thinking.

The final idea I've hoped to get thinking on is some kind of SCREW-ON tip... but I do not know how practical/possible that would be with polycarbonate. But... it certainly wouldn't fly off, now would it? However... I've no idea if that would cause more cracking up near the tip. I believe we would actually NOT want to do this (surprising as it may seem), since it would allow no flexibility to the poly-c up near the tip. Anyhow.

SO... I open it up to the folks on TCSS. What say you? Any tangible ideas, fairly scientific thoughts, or experiments?

Again, the idea behind this thread is to start producing some RESULTS for saber tips that just don't fly off.

Strydur

06-10-2007, 10:45 PM

So far, there are polycarbonate tips (Ultra) and acrylic ones (TCSS), and some have been flat half-domes, while others have gravitated toward "shouldered".

Erm..we sell PolyC tips and have as long as Ultra has. We did have a injected 2 piece design until recently when we switched to the machined tips but they have been PolyC.

Novastar

06-10-2007, 11:24 PM

Oops, sorry for the mix up Tim! But yeah... I suppose you understand my thinking here... just trying to see if maybe a "rubbery" tip invention or something could go somewhere.

I realize that it may be far more cost to create one (when all the dust has cleared) vs. how much one could sell it for... but I guess for some reason, I'm becoming an advocate for them!!

Only other thing I can think of is... Tim, have you ever tried glueing the tip DIRECTLY to the diffuser film, and THEN sliding into the blade? I believe that's how MR did it, and I believe it sort of helped so that one does not lose the tip if the glue DOES loosen.

Strydur

06-11-2007, 07:58 AM

I think the problem with a rubbery tip is that you need to figure out a way to hold it in place. I would imagine something that could be attached to a polyc disc that is then glued into the tube would work best. What are you looking for as far as feel goes? Do you want it like a bouncy ball? Or just something that is not as hard as PolyC? What type of hits usually make your tips come off? Does the blade break at the same time or does the tip just fly off at the glue point?

Jonitus

06-11-2007, 09:02 AM

What about those clear "feet" Erv sells or used to sell? They're like the feet used on crutches and such, but a clear material. Maybe I am imagining this stuff?

xwingband

06-11-2007, 10:20 AM

I'm thinking something slightly less than a rubber hockey puck.

The ones we currently use are great though. Only for weird temperature changes and long term daily abuse have I heard of it being an issue. When I glue and let it set just brute force will break the tube also.

Really the problem is glue. Even if we found a good semi-hard material and use the same design the glue would still fail at some point. I think any future design needs to be pressure fit like the MR tips. A slight outward flair to hold itself in the tube, like a cone.

I think it would require more of a shoulder, but it would pay off if it works.

OR like Jonitus mentions a cap might do well. That way the tip warps with the tube... it disturbs the look with it's mushroom shape, but perhaps in conjuction with a shoulder a outer cap portion would work too.

Novastar

06-11-2007, 12:26 PM

Jonitus said: "What about those clear "feet" Erv sells or used to sell? They're like the feet used on crutches and such, but a clear material."

Absolutely! I was actually looking into those, but they are naturally very thick, so it's not totally ideal. I have actually found a thin sort of... well silcone "sleeve" (don't make any jokes!!!! :roll: ) That could be used, but it still makes it look silly. I forgot to show Corbin at C4. Dang.

Strydur/Tim said: "What are you looking for as far as feel goes? Do you want it like a bouncy ball? Or just something that is not as hard as PolyC?"

I think a "bouncy" ball WOULD actually be good, for three reasons, one, thrusting actions that actually hit someone might not hurt as much... two, a dropped saber might absorb more shock rather than crack if dropped on a hard surface... three, rubber will alter shape as the poly-tube significantly changes shape during a strike.

"What type of hits usually make your tips come off? Does the blade break at the same time or does the tip just fly off at the glue point?"

I really don't know how often you guys must use your sabers, I guess that would be a gauge? As for me, they are used at least twice a week, so about 5 hours each week. Here's the skivvy:

The tips come off no matter what I do:

* no matter the tip "style" (Corbin, TCSS, Ultra, self-constructed)
* no matter the glue style (oh bloody 'ell too many to mention!)
* no matter the hit style (they fly off randomly, although my guess is sometimes it is the 'straw that broke the camel's back')
* no matter on the kind of.... "special way" I glue and do things. Sometimes I try different "techniques" of gluing... granted, you can't do all THAT much differently

I've tried sanding & cleaning the materials... putting on ALOT of glue... putting on "just enough"... trying to give it more room at the mushroom plug area (more room for flexion).

Ultimately I am pretty resolved in that the problem is that the tips are SOLID and do not flex. I think mushroom heads are great, but if they do not flex, they will eventually come off.

It makes sense if you think about it. Since the poly-tube changes shape (evil doppelganger!!! :) ), then the tips need to follow suit in order to have the so-called harmony we'd be looking for.

I believe the problem is NOT the glue... in fact, if anything--all the glue does is help to "rip" off some of the blade when the tip DOES fly off!

I've experimented with just "taping tips on"... after the glued ones fly off, sometimes I simply tape them back in place. I've noticed less cracking of the blade this way, and the tips stay on almost as long. Go figure.

Ultimately--it is the LACK of flexion in the tips that is causing tip woes. If I'm wrong--correct me. But now that I've experienced it for almost 2 years... it makes perfect sense to me.

neophyl

06-11-2007, 12:31 PM

Nova instead of tape you could use clear heatshrink. Easy to replace and alot neater than tape and still has that flexibility you mention.

In fact I like the idea so much Im going to do mine with it :)

Novastar

06-11-2007, 12:41 PM

Wow... great idea neophyl... (as usual).

You would know about that material much better than I... could you tell me the actual name of it? Would I look up "clear heatshrink" and simply use a hairdryer or whatever?

Hmm... that's a pretty darn stellar idea. I'll do it too if it doesn't cost $50 or whatever, hehhe (which I doubt).

We should both post photos--if there will even be anything to "see"!!

xwingband

06-11-2007, 12:48 PM

I believe the problem is NOT the glue... in fact, if anything--all the glue does is help to "rip" off some of the blade when the tip DOES fly off!

Well, I didn't mean it like that. I mean that the tips shouldn't rely on the glue and that's the issue. I think the design should do the majority of the holding. I think friction should hold in the tips. As is glue is doing 95% of the holding job.

Take the blades... a simple screw does quite well by friction alone. That is why I think a harder yet soft material with an upside down stopper shape for the shoulder would do well. There would be some air above it to add even more to the ability to flex and the bottom would hold it in.

Basically I want it to be an utter pain to pull off regardless of glue. :D Then the glue would go on as the extra to stop it from coming of on hits that go close to out.

neophyl

06-11-2007, 12:57 PM

Normal 2:1 shrin ratio at around 1.5" will shrink down to 3/4" minimum so would be great for a 1" blade.

Something like this http://www.mouser.com/search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=FP301_1_1%2f2_CLEAR_48%22_BKv irtualkey51730000virtualkey5174-11123 in 4ft lengths.

I buy it by the 25m reel as I use it to protect small pcb's so its even cheaper.

Novastar

06-11-2007, 01:00 PM

X, I think we're agreed there... result we're looking for is the same--how to go about it slightly different.

Either way, I think it's worth a shot to try putting an end to all flying tips once and for all.

On a concept I listed above... any thoughts on a screw-on tip? Can you "thread" poly-c in that large a diameter? Would we run into the tip and blade still cracking because it would (again) allow for NO flexion at all up high for the tip?

The advantage there is that the mirror material could still be easily attached... in a more hollow/flexible tip I just don't know how it would happen... :(

acerocket

06-11-2007, 01:16 PM

Hockey pucks are made out of vulcanized rubber and are still fairly hard. Not sure if they would be flexible enough. I had an idea once that I thought might work but I never really got around to trying it. Basically you would have a shouldered tip like we normally use, with the exception that a groove would be cut into the shoulder. Then a matching groove would be machined in the polyc tube (assuming thick walled tubing). A small stainless steel spring "C" clip would then be set into the groove on the tip, compressed, and put into the tube. Once the grooves lined up, the "C" clip would expand into the groove in the tubing and lock the two pieces together. The tip would still be able to rotate but would be very hard to pull out. Not sure whether this would work or not since cutting a small groove in the polyc might weaken it, but it's an idea I thought might have some promise.

xwingband

06-11-2007, 03:00 PM

Nova, If you could get a machine tip it'd work. They make taps for pipes... there REALLY expensive though.

I really like Ace's Idea too. I really think the key is making it so that it's hard to get off even without glue. Glue will fail at some point... otherwise we wouldn't still be trying for the perfect tips. :P

acerocket

06-11-2007, 03:16 PM

Yeah my idea would be best without glue. My biggest concern would be the groove. If it could be done with a radius I think it might be possible since it eliminates the sharp corners that could be stress points. Possibly, what I am looking for is a .8" od diamter x .05" material diamter ring. It would need to be cut so it could forced into a .75" diamter circle. You would then have your tip with a .75" x .25" tall shoulder with a .05" deep groove in it. A .025" deep groove would need to be cut into the blade. When the ring is compressed into the groove on the tip, it should be flush with the shoulder. Now insert the tip into the blade and when the grooves line up, the ring will expand to it's original diameter and will have half of the ring inside the blade and half inside the tip. I think it would darn near impossible to get the tip out without breaking the tip or the blade. If you hit the blade hard enought to break it, you would have broken it no matter what kind of tip you had there. This is the only truely positive retention idea I can think of that might work. But I have to admit, the heat shrink sounds like a very interesting idea also. Perhaps glue the tip one like normal and then shrink the tubing over it. hopefully someone will experiment and let us know.

Novastar

06-11-2007, 04:28 PM

Neophyl and I will be trying the shrink tube experiment as far as I know.

As to machining, X-Wing, I really don't have the experience and although I MAY have access to some machines... I wouldn't know the first thing to do. I would prefer to leave that in the hands of those who know.

As it is... I'm STILL kicking myself for going through the learning process to build sabers. NOW LOOK WHERE THE EARTH IS, it's way way out there, and I've become a huge nerd like all y'all... :D

heheheheh

Triumph: "I KIIIIIIID, I KID.... yes, I am only joking... LED sabers are very cool..."

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.... :!:
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FOR ME TO POOP ONNNNN!!!!!! :twisted:

Onli-Won Kanomi

06-14-2007, 10:23 PM

My thought is kinda the reverse...howzabout intead of the groove on the shouldered tip and c-clips we simply cut a groove [or maybe multiple grooves?] into the end inside of the poly-c blade then use flexible silicone/rubber shouldered-tips that are cast/moulded/machined with a 'ridge' [or several?] on the outside of the shoulder that would act kinda like 'o-rings' locking into the grooves in the end of the blade.

Does that make any sense?

Novastar

06-15-2007, 01:15 AM

It does... and yeah, I was thinking of silicone / vinyl / rubber tips for some time now... that's actually why I started the thread!

So, perfect! This is what it's all about! Good call Obi-Won-Kan...

Come to think of it, I think I know what you mean, so I'll post some possible diagrams of what I think COULD work...

Novastar

06-15-2007, 01:36 AM

I have no idea if this is even practical... but it sure beats the heck out of the tips flying all over the place.

Here's hopin' that Corbin & Tim get inspired and find some interesting "magical" way to cook something up. Then again... I think this WOULD require a special moulde...

SILICONE / RUBBER / VINYL

http://thecuttingedge.s5.com/Tips.gif

Thoughts, anyone? I'm sure others could come up with a WAAAAY better design.

ArkaiHalon

08-22-2007, 04:49 PM

just a thought I've had. A solid piece of PolyC. no plug, not tip, just one piece.

xwingband

08-22-2007, 05:07 PM

just a thought I've had. A solid piece of PolyC. no plug, not tip, just one piece.

Yeah... been done and currently offered out there.

ArkaiHalon

08-22-2007, 07:19 PM

hadn't seen solid poly, only acrylic, but then I have only recently started to worry about adding blades.

xwingband

08-22-2007, 07:23 PM

Ultra's are solid PolyC... Tim's are a solid plastic too (forget which kind).

Basically being solid is okay, but doesn't help with eventually popping off. For 95% of people they'll never have issues with any shouldered tips, but for the rest it just delays when the tips will come off.

ArkaiHalon

08-22-2007, 07:52 PM

If it's all one piece, nothing should pop off?

Novastar

08-22-2007, 08:34 PM

We're confusing one another... I believe people mean "one solid piece of polytube, rounded off at the end, no tip, no cuts, only a single part".

If that is even POSSIBLE to buy, there would be the following things going on:

1. Solid Polytube. Heavy. Round off edges for "tip". Bore out LONNNNNGG center hole for diffuser. Not practical.

2. Even if you COULD do that without expensive equipment... getting the mirror material inside the tube would be a pain.

Another possibility is a "rubber sleeve", much like the shrink wrap idea NeoPhyl had... any luck on that yet NeoPhyl? I haven't had a speck of time to try the shrink wrap thing yet...

xwingband

08-22-2007, 08:36 PM

Oh crap... I totally spaced. One-piece for the entire blade...

This would be SUPER EXPENSIVE. Do you bore out a PolyC tube? Lot of money and work...

You could cast something I assume but that's a huge initial setup to get any manufacturer to touch it.

Basically it's a huge hassle with little benefits as very few still have issues with tips coming off.

LAN-ED-TUL

08-23-2007, 02:10 AM

no, not for whole blade, just a 3/4 inch long, lets say solid plug of poly c.

you could still put your reflective piece on the end of it. and do like one of my EL blades, a couple drilled and tapped holes from the sides, and a allen setscrew run in.

it wont come out at all unless you busted the blade apart.

Novastar

08-23-2007, 05:26 AM

That sounds cool, Lan... care to post photos if you get the time?

I've been toying with the idea of using some nylon screws on the tips, but... it seems like overkill.

I guess tips are one of those things... they are so inexpensive and not-so-important... that when it gets expensive to make them better, it's sort of not worth it!

xwingband

08-23-2007, 05:49 AM

It'd look terribly unattractive though. :(

Novastar

08-23-2007, 06:19 AM

Like so many things--not from 5ft. + away, and certainly not while it was in motion.

I am also thinking from a stage performance POV... worried more of the audience than losing a tip. Worried more of a performance becoming wrecked as a "miniature spotlight" is cast all over the place, hahahah... ;)

Hasid Lafre

08-23-2007, 06:20 AM

What about heat reforming?

Heat the tip ent up then when its in a maluable form press it into a negative form then take something to stick inside to give it a flat shape of sorts for a reflective film.

Marsupial

08-23-2007, 07:55 AM

It'd look terribly unattractive though. :(

more attractive then a spectator with a poped-out tip in the eye.

I think I'd use some "safebonded" tips if available.

xwingband

08-23-2007, 08:15 AM

Not as bad as this:

EDIT: picture borked...

fawnheart2000

08-23-2007, 12:11 PM

Doesn't Mcmaster-Carr have clear polycarbonate screws? couldn't you do Lan's idea of drilling and taping a hole then sand or dremel the head off the screw.

Strydur

08-23-2007, 12:50 PM

Luke-SkyMarcher

08-23-2007, 12:56 PM

I know the main discussion is about tips, but when it comes to glue...
I know weld-on#3 is currently the established glue as being the best, but has anyone tried this?
http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=usplastic&category%5Fname=71&product%5Fid=19275

As it is specially designed for polycarbonate, and both the tube and tips are polyC, it might be worth looking into.

Novastar

08-23-2007, 02:47 PM

In my opinion nothing like this will help. All that will help is a tip design that will absorb the impact. If properly glued the tips we sell will not come off 90% of the time without the blade and tip actually splitting. So its not a tip staying attached issue. Not even a solid one piece blade/tip combo would help. The problem with getting a softer material that will absorb the impact is trying to get it to attach. It would need to be molded onto a nut that could then be attached to a polyc shouldered disc or something similar.

Thats my thoughts anyways..I agree with you Tim--on the entire absorbing shock thing... which is why I was suggesting rubbery/silicone tips...

But Tim's right as well that it can't be easy to make them STAY PUT if they are rubbery.

Corbin and I were thinking... maybe a rubber gasket around a "thick-walled" tip... yet put that on a thin-walled blade? At least... something akin to that.

xwingband

08-23-2007, 02:54 PM

K.I.S.S. On simple shock absorption... I'd say find clear versions of what Parks used to use and put that over our existing ones.

OR that old clear heatshrink idea really intrigued me. Heatshrink is tough stuff.

Novastar

08-23-2007, 03:01 PM

Yup... it seems heatshrink may be the best solution... or some kind of "rubber slipover"... I have something akin to this, but they are sort of milky and not clear of color.

The simple way I've found is a few wraps of clear packing tape too. Not many tips come off with that stuff on there...

xwingband

08-23-2007, 03:15 PM

Okies... 'nother brain storm and a feasible idea.

http://www.incomsabers.com/images/tipidea.jpg

Grey is casted rubber, silicon... whatever. Black solid is machined or cast PolyC... again whatever gets it done.

The lip gives the shock absorbing deal something to grab on to... yet the plug of PolyC will still be good for the traditional gluing we do. I'd take Weld On #16 and smear it on the side wall of the tip and push it in.

I still think a boot or heatshrink is more feasible since 90% won't ever take the tip off. It's an idea though... gets past a lot of the issues involved in a full rubber tip.

Jedi-Loreen

08-23-2007, 03:31 PM

Doesn't Mcmaster-Carr have clear polycarbonate screws? couldn't you do Lan's idea of drilling and taping a hole then sand or dremel the head off the screw.

Yes, they do. I use them on my EL blades I make. I don't use shouldered tips, or cabochons on the blades, I drill and tap about 1/2" down from the tip for a 6/32 polycarb screw and loop my EL wire over it, then screw it all the way in till it touches the other side of the diffuser, then I cut off the head and just use a sharp blade to carve it down flush with the curve of the tube. Then I fill the tip with clear silcone.

I started doing this when my first blades had some issues with the diffuser coming out of the tip during hard fighting with them. (I use a 1/2" OD poly"e" diffuser that fits tightly inside the thick walled 3/4" polycarb tubes)

I have one of Tim's original blades, with the flat cabochon glued to it, which I use as my "battle blade". I just wrapped a piece of clear packing tape around it and have never had a problem with the tip, and I've fought pretty hard with it. Some of my friends have had problems with their 2 piece, and shouldered blade tips coming off during heavy fighting.

My "show" blade had a double wrap of Corbin film, and one of his first shouldered tips, but I don't fight with that one.

It probably wouldn't look so bad to have a longer shoulder and hold it on with 2 or 3 polycarb screws with the heads cut off after installation.

LAN-ED-TUL

08-23-2007, 04:21 PM

i was just thinking. use the method i described, and JLO desscribed. a plug of poly c, or whatever, with the polyc screws, cut off after run in, then use the clear hetshrink over the whole thing.

that should hold up short of the tube itself splitting.

you could even use a smear of weld-on 3 if you use a short plug of poly c.

im not seeing where it would come off if its done this way.\

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c291/LAN-ED-TUL/untitled-1.jpg

ArkaiHalon

08-23-2007, 04:33 PM

where would one obtain clear heatshrink?
I've only ever found it in solid colors.

xwingband

08-23-2007, 05:17 PM

http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?name=FP112C-5-ND

ArkaiHalon

08-23-2007, 06:11 PM

thank you

valeon

10-01-2007, 07:50 PM

I've basically read through the whole thread, and I have a simple solution that I use in capping off custom size car underbody lights. (I'm a dealer in all things automotive). We use similar endcaps to our LED tubes, only thing we do is use a simple silicone adhesive, the same you use to create gaskets. It keeps flexibility, and is adherent enough to hold through all types of vibrations and shocks, from things hitting it from the road and body flex. Since silicone adhesive is made to adhere to many different types of material it is the obvious choice, since it sticks especially well to different types of plastics. The main thing is, that it comes in "clear".

xwingband

10-01-2007, 08:34 PM

Yeah, I have a silicon glue... I don't see it taking the hits. Maybe as a backup, but as the primary... I forsee that failing miserably.

Novastar

10-02-2007, 12:46 AM

I can seriously say (repeating myself) that the problem is NOT so much the adhesive... it's just physics. The flexion of the tube WILL eventually knock that sucker off until:

* Tips become much more shock-absorbent as a WHOLE... not just by the glue... they need to compact--like a rubber ball
* The pressure is somehow distributed better--such as with the MR tips attached to the diffuser... but this is not only limiting... it will STILL become problematic/break over time
* Polytubes that are all one piece to begin with... and/or tips being chemically bonded on in a very perfect way (by machine precision) so as to ensure the best strength

The major problems are...

* Not cost-effective to solve the problem... thus far
* Simple solutions such as clear packing tape work surprisingly well, keeping tips on for at least a year's time (I've kept track after BOP I into BOP II)
* Bonding rubber/silicone/vinyl/etc. to poly-c... is nearly impossible without destroying said vinyl/rubber, etc.

Keep in mind that I'm coming from a VERY long-term perspective. In other words--I don't care about people who use their saber once a month and go 50% for an hour. We're talking about hard hits, many, MANY hard hits, hours of rehearsals, punishment to the sabers, maintenance and repairs galore... :) For this, the tips USED to be a nightmare, and now clear packing tape has them under control.

It ain't pretty up close, but again--anyone see the clear tape in BOP I and BOP II? I thought not. :)

valeon

10-03-2007, 01:35 PM

Point well taken novastar, I could see the only solution being a one piece blade. As you said, that costs money.

Novastar

10-03-2007, 03:08 PM

xwingband

10-07-2007, 04:15 PM

lol... dang this is simple, but I just realized that it has been discussed before and would be terribly simple.

With the extra long shouldered tips for thin walled blades there is enough there to use the same 4-40 screws we use on the heatsinks. For my nylon blade this would be especially great because once the head is cut... it would blend right in! Up close on a PolyC on it might be odd, but hey, I bet that would help the coming off.

I'm defiantly going to try this with my nylon batch tomorrow.

LAN-ED-TUL

10-07-2007, 09:10 PM

X-wing, they make nylon set screws. theyre the same as the metal ones with a allen fitting in the end to screw them in and out.

then you wouldnt have to snip off any bolt heads flush.

i seen them in the hardware store, ACE to be exact.

xwingband

10-08-2007, 05:43 AM

I already have a ton of the same 4-40 screws Tim sells. It's not a big deal at all to snip the head off.

All I've seen at my stores anyways are nylon pan heads which do me no good.

Onli-Won Kanomi

10-13-2007, 02:31 AM

I think it would have to begin as a SOLID... then have a long hole bored out. VERY expensive, and not practical.

However... neato things could happen, as you could bore out a really well-machined "diffuser texture" inside the tube. Well... for thick-walled for certain. I don't know about thin-walled.

Anyhow. Pipedreams for now. Maybe later not so pipe-dreamy.

Why would it HAVE to begin as a solid and be machined out...couldnt it be CAST in one-piece in a mould? Polycarbonate IS a kind of plastic afterall isnt it? I have an acrylic blade for my Randomsaber that is cast...and while it doesnt have a hole down the center that doesnt seem to be all that complicated a mould to make compared to say a fancy bullet mould...longer yes but not a terribly complex shape.

Then again...if you DID bore it out maybe you could put the kind of grooves around the inside of the bored hole [perhaps with a kind of very fast rifling button?] that would recreate the Corbin extend/retract effect as well?

DACOTA

10-13-2007, 03:03 PM

I used this glue for my thin walled blades, I havent dualed with it yet but its made for gluing poly-c. So I think it pretty good. Just thought I'd share. I got it at O.S.H.

http://www.surehold.com/download.asp?strImageFile=302card.jpg

[EDIT] BTW that nylon screw Idea,......genius. I have to try that.

Proximal

10-13-2007, 06:38 PM

Why would it HAVE to begin as a solid and be machined out...couldnt it be CAST in one-piece in a mould? Polycarbonate IS a kind of plastic afterall isnt it? I have an acrylic blade for my Randomsaber that is cast...and while it doesnt have a hole down the center that doesnt seem to be all that complicated a mould to make compared to say a fancy bullet mould...longer yes but not a terribly complex shape.

PC tubing isn't injection molded, it is Extruded. I honestly don't think there are too many clear inj. grade PC resins out there to even toy with that idea.