Alternative to blade diffuser

[vadeblade]

Hi,

I have been doing some R & D and have pictures and a production process to share with the rest of you.

BUT first I would like to get permission from Strydur and GeluKhanGharr before I proceed. Strydur because this is his store forum and Gelu because it was his idea. I will not share unless I get a "Go" from both.

-V

Lightsaber Warning Label: "CAUTION: Do NOT attempt to sharpen blade." http://www.geocities.com/projectstm/lightsaber.html

[xwingband]

Is this Gelu's clear film? I remember you saying you lived close to TAP plastics...

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[GeluKhanGharr]

"GO" from me [:)]

Born of Sith, seduced by the light.
http://www.saloncatalina.com/images/signature.jpg

[Strydur]

Go for it

Tim
The Custom Saber Shop

[vadeblade]

Cool! Thanks S and G. [:D]

Taking a process introduced by GeluKhanGharr in this thread

http://www.thecustomsabershop.com/sabers/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=205 (post- 12/28/2005 : 13:32:18)

I went to Tap Plastic and purchased this:

http://www.geocities.com/projectstm/temp/clearmylar.jpg

Clear mylar, .002" thickness. They had two sizes 24" @ $0.75/ft and 48" @ $2.50/ft. I have a 3 ft blade and Gelu said he rolled 7 feet of the stuff. I said "S***!" that would get really expensive if I purchased the 48" size and I would have like 12" of waste material trimmed off.
So I figured I would just try the 24" size. I purchase 7 feet. Dude at the store gave me 2 ft free = 9 ft role [:)]

I cut the mylar into three 24"x36" sheets. Laid one on top of the other and rolled it into a tight tube. I shoved the mylar tube into a one inch poly blade (same stuff Tim sells).
Working with the material I realized this was not the same stuff Gelu described. Gelu said the stuff he was using was real slippery. The Mylar film I had had so much static cling that it stuck together and stuck to the tube wall. It stayed put without needing a plug.

The blade looked like this when not lit:
http://www.geocities.com/projectstm/temp/blade01.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/projectstm/temp/blade02.jpg

It was nice. As you can see, instead of looking like a white tube it looks like a chromed metal tube. SILVER, very nice!

However, when I projected a light in it using a white Lux 3 with Tim's color disk I was disappointed. When lit, it looked like a plain tube with light shining inside, not a searing blade of energy.

I took the sheets back out. First, the static cling made it very hard to keep clean. There was all kinds of stuff stuck between the sheets. I dusted, redusted and dusted some more. I took a lint free rag and wiped down all three sheets, back and front. I also cleaned the polycarb tube.
Gelu said he was trying to get light to bounce around inside and then escape. I was thinking I needed to have some refraction going on between the layers too.

So I took a brillo pad and wiped it DIAGONALLY across ONE of the sheets. Now I have one sheet with fine scratch marks all over it. Why Diagonally? because when you role up the film the scratch marks will criss-cross each other creating an even pattern.

I laid two unmarred sheets on top of each other and the scratch up film on top of that. Rolled the whole thing into a tube and shoved it into the polycard.

Here is the results:

http://www.geocities.com/projectstm/temp/blade03.jpg
above picture is an unlit conference room with ambient light coming from an open door 10 ft away. Light source is Lux 3 white w/green filter, 6 volts and 2.2 Ohm resistor. I don't have it in a hilt yet. LED with 5 degree optics was taped on and is miss-aligned. Camera was my Palm Treo 650 phone (yeah it sucks but I forgot my digi cam). The camera makes the blade brighter than it really is.


http://www.geocities.com/projectstm/temp/blade04.jpg
This picture taken under my desk where there is more ambient light from multiple florecent bulbs overhead. Camera still makes it look brighter than it really is but the results are still impressive.

Blade has a half ball on tip with a 3/4" FLAT mirror.

http://www.geocities.com/projectstm/temp/blade05.jpg
Last picture is with red filter and a blue filter. When putting in the red filter I completely messed up LED alignment so there is a dim spot towards the top. Just issues of doing experiment without a hilt.

Blade has huge flare at base and there is barely a noticeable dim spot near the middle. I was still impressed with how even the light is distributed along the blade length. The flare at the base looks really cool but will be diminished when the whole thing is installed in a hilt. I may removed the films again and add more scratches with 1500 grit sandpaper.

This is definitely more labor intensive than Tim's LED diffuser.

I am waiting on a red lux 3 purchased from Tim. It should arrive today. I will try that out tonight and take better pictures to share.

Opinions?

-V

Lightsaber Warning Label: "CAUTION: Do NOT attempt to sharpen blade." http://www.geocities.com/projectstm/lightsaber.html

[desertscorpion]

That thing is killer looking!!![}:)]

[GeluKhanGharr]

Great work Vincent! Now we know it wasn't mylar that I used, but I'd be really curious to see the results difference between mylar and my film. Maybe i'll order some mylar from Tap and try it too.
In the pictures you posted the lit blades look just like mine, but you say your camera makes them look brighter than to the naked eye. Do you have an MR to compare? One with fresh batteries? I know everyone says their Luxeons are brighter than MRs, but when you look at pictures that statement is not completely true. Yes, they are way brighter at the base and sometimes at the tip too, but in general the "dim spot" is way dimmer than MR blades. In my blades with a 1 W Luxeon, the dimmest spot was brighter than an MR. With a 3W Lux there is no comparison. I took a shot of an aqua lit blade with 3 spot lights shining straight on it and it still looked bright.
In my next blade I'll use more than 7 feet, maybe 10. It might even the light better. It might also lower the light output. We'll see.

Born of Sith, seduced by the light.
http://www.saloncatalina.com/images/signature.jpg

[xwingband]

It does look very good. I too would like to see comparison shots if you can.

Did you look at other films while you were there too?

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[vadeblade]

I did get the red lux 3 today. I lit the blade with it and am very happy with the results. I have a Vader MR at work. I will bring a 4 mega pixel Minolta digi cam and take comparison pics. I should make a temporary hilt so i can cover up the base flare. I was thinking that maybe the dimming in the middle is not really there, just my eyes not adjusting properly from getting blinded by the flare.

-V

edit: I looked at other film too. but the next clear film they had was .003" thick and was matt finished. I was not sure it would work. I will try other films in a few weeks and report my findings.
Lightsaber Warning Label: "CAUTION: Do NOT attempt to sharpen blade." http://www.geocities.com/projectstm/lightsaber.html

[vadeblade]

OK. I put in the red Lux 3 and took pictures using a Minolta 4 mega pixel camera. The Minolta actually does the reverse of the previous camera - The blade is dimmer than in real life. This is good beacuse it reveals dim areas that my eyes are not picking up. Picture was taken at high resolution then reduced between 40-50 percent to conserve bandwidth. I took black construction paper and taped it over the LED to get rid of some of the flare.

http://www.geocities.com/projectstm/temp/PICT0003.JPG
This is the blade in a pitch black room. I put an object near the blade to show how much light it puts out. Can you tell what it is?


http://www.geocities.com/projectstm/temp/PICT0007.JPG
I thought I would have some fun with the comparison pictures. Pictured from left to right are Red Luxeon 3 (no hilt yet), Vader MR, blue-green EL running 12v 2KHz, blue EL running 12v 4 Khz. This is a dark conference room with ambient light coming from an open door 10 ft away.


http://www.geocities.com/projectstm/temp/PICT0008.JPG
Same as above except I turned on half the lights in the room - 9 three ft florescent bulbs overhead.


http://www.geocities.com/projectstm/temp/PICT0010.JPG
Lux at the bottom and MR up top. MR light is more evenely distributed. Also, the dimmist spot on the Lux is less bright than the MR. However, as you can see in the picture, this perticular MR has many hotspots (64 of them? [;)]) running up the blade which really annoys me.

I still think I am messing up LED alignment because it is just taped on to the base of the blade. I think I will get better results once I have the whoe thing installed in a hilt. The hilt will not be finished till Feb [:(]

Lightsaber Warning Label: "CAUTION: Do NOT attempt to sharpen blade." http://www.geocities.com/projectstm/lightsaber.html

[dbraxton9]

about your static clean problem:
try using a dryer sheet like a Bounce or Downy. it won't keep the static from coming back but it will keep it under control. just wipe it over the clingy area. i have this same problem building miniatures and applying decals and this solution works well for me.

[WeirdoTransvestite]

Construction Pics!

Those who see the light at the end of the tunnel, need to stop staring at the sun.

[xwingband]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by WeirdoTransvestite

Construction Pics!

Those who see the light at the end of the tunnel, need to stop staring at the sun.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">


I don't think there's much to it. I think he just wrapped it around a pole and shoved it in there.[:D]

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[WeirdoTransvestite]

Maybe so, but I am not the only one with a knack for screwing up the simplest things.

Those who see the light at the end of the tunnel, need to stop staring at the sun.

[vadeblade]

WeirdoTransvestite,

There really is nothing to it. I took one 24" x 36" sheet and wiped it with a brillo pad diagonally from bottom to top and then then from top to bottom. I then wiped the sheet down with lint free cloth. Then I blasted the whole thing with PC Duster.

I just stacked two clear sheets. Then I stacked the scratched up sheet on top of those two. I then rolled up the sheet into a tube. I kept the tube rolled tight with some rubber bands.

I took a half-ball acrylic piece and glued a flat mirror in the center. I then glued that assembly on one end of the PolyC tube. Once the glue cured I removed the rubber bands from the mylar "tube" and inserted it inside the PolyC.

Make sure the mylar has a diameter much smaller than the inside diameter of the polyC. Don't let the mylar expand/unroll or it will cling to the polyC wall or you're gonna have a hard time with the rest of the assembly.

Once the mylar "tube" butts up against the mirror, I release the pressure on the mylar role and it will expand and cling to the polyc wall. Holding the blade Vertical with the dome towards the bottom, I gave the assembly a few good taps on the carpet to seat the mylar completely against the acrylic tip.

That's it. The clingyness of te mylar keeps it in the blade. The stuff is stickier than cling-wrap.

Sorry, no assembly pictures.

-V

Lightsaber Warning Label: "CAUTION: Do NOT attempt to sharpen blade."

http://www.geocities.com/projectstm/lightsaber.html

[Cyambin]

The mirror you used in the tip, is it 3/4" diameter so it fits the polyC perfectly? Or is it smaller?

[WeirdoTransvestite]

I really wasn't sure if you scratched up the entire sheet or not.

Those who see the light at the end of the tunnel, need to stop staring at the sun.

[vadeblade]

Cyambin,
I used a 1/2 inch dia mirror. The reason is the mylar role is actually quite thick. It reduced the inside diameter of my blade to a little over 1/2 inch.

WeirdoTransvestite,
I scratched up the whole sheet. Actually, I think it would be even more effective if you turned it over and scratched up the other side too. Or use something finer than a brillo pad.

This has been a great experiment, but it really is more labor intensive than just having a milkish white diffuser like Tim sells. The plus of this method is that when the Lux is off, it looks like you have a chrome blade on your lightsaber.

Lightsaber Warning Label: "CAUTION: Do NOT attempt to sharpen blade."

http://www.geocities.com/projectstm/lightsaber.html

[WeirdoTransvestite]

I am so trying this then.

Those who see the light at the end of the tunnel, need to stop staring at the sun.

[Cyambin]

Vadeblade do you honestly mean to tell me that the only plus is the metallic look? Isn't it brighter than the diffuser?

Also in the LED blade tips thread scaarmor used a 3/4" diameter mirror so it reflected back through the diffuser. He said it worked so well he didn't notice anything at first, the whole blade looked the same. And he scraped windows in those mirrors too.
I looked in The Art Store and found every mirror I could possibly use in a blade so I got some 3/4" ones. I also got some Iridescent film because of the bell that sounded in my head when my mom pointed it out. I can't find anything about Iridescent film on this forum but I am eager to experiment with it and will post pics once I get an actual saber [:p]

[vadeblade]

Cyambin,
Based on pictures of Tim's blade and the pictures of my blade, I would say the two are equal in brightness. I would not make a claim that my blade is brighter as I have not created a blade using Tim's method. However, from the pictures, my experiment looks Equally bright.

I purchased a mirror variety pack. It had 1/2" - 1" dia.

I also found this while walking around Michaels Arts and Craft Store:
http://www.michaels.com/art/online/displayProductPage?productNum=gc0397

the role I saw was 60" by 3 yards for $4.99. It looks more like what Gelu was describing. I will try that out on my next blade.

Lightsaber Warning Label: "CAUTION: Do NOT attempt to sharpen blade."

http://www.geocities.com/projectstm/lightsaber.html

[GeluKhanGharr]

Cyambin, I have not tried Tim's diffuser yet either, but I compared my film method with a plain MR diffuser and I can say without a doubt the film is brighter and more even. I have also tried the iridiscent film and have not seen any advantage over the plain clear film. The iridiscent film I had was really thin and a much bigger pain to install than the clear one, so, although I have a blade with it, I'll be changing it.

Born of Sith, seduced by the light.
http://www.saloncatalina.com/images/signature.jpg

[Cyambin]

Alright thanks guys

I am ordering an LED saber kit, complete blade and another PolyC tube very soon. I don't have an MR to compare it to but I will try the iridescent film since there is no advantage so it should be relatively similar. Right?

[Madcow]

<font face="Verdana"></font id="Verdana">
Great work!

I'm new here... Cheers all!

Have any of you tried scuffing the outside of the polycarb tube and then puting no diffuser inside?



"You want to go home and re-think your life"

[GeluKhanGharr]

Hey Madcow, I see you did join. Welcome!
Sand blasting and bead blasting the polycarb blades on the outside has been discussed. The general consensus is that diffusers still look better, but after all it is a matter of personal prefference.

Born of Sith, seduced by the light.
http://www.saloncatalina.com/images/signature.jpg

[supertrogdor]

I tried the michaels shrinkwrap, and was less than impressed by the results, tried several different variations of the film. from nearly the entire roll to just a few feet, with and without scratched/abraised surface, and none of it impressed me greatly so my 2 bits reveal there are better options available, but if anyone has input on something i may have done wrong i would be glad to hear it
did you try it vadeblade? if so how did it compare?
I have made a few phone calls in the last hour and found that aside from some puzzled shopkeepers, most floral shops carry the polypropalene celophane and are willing to sell it very cheaply (a quarter to thirty-five cents per foot), ill report any findings on how it compares and post pics of any differences if they prove photoworthy

[supertrogdor]

Tim's diffuser tube arrived yesterday, comparason pictures soon to be posted

[vadeblade]

Hi supertrogdor,
No, sorry. The mylar film from Tap Platics is actually working well for me. I managed to get the LED aligned properly and I am getting an almost uniform light the full length of the blade. There is a barely noticeable dim spot about 8-10 inches from the tip. It shows up more when I take a digital picture, but to the naked eye it is barely there. I showed my blade to a few more people and all I get is jaws dropping and "please make one for me." So I think I will stick with what I have for now.

Cheers,
-V


Lightsaber Warning Label: "CAUTION: Do NOT attempt to sharpen blade."

http://www.geocities.com/projectstm/lightsaber.html

[xwingband]

That's good to know Vadeblade since I have mylar just waiting to be used.[:D] On that subject I would like to try matte mylar too. It may eliminate the need for sanding it.

I bet you should look into what Corbin does to score his film. He said in TFN that he had some kind of printing machinery that he ran it through that made even scoring.

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[vadeblade]

I want to try matte mylar too but the local Tap does not have it in stock at the moment. I was thinking that 6 feet of matte mylar may be too opaque. So my idea was to take only 2 feet of matte roled up to make an inner core and 4-6 feet of clear mylar to make an outer core. This should still result in a silver blade unlit and possibly a coring effect when lit.

-V

Lightsaber Warning Label: "CAUTION: Do NOT attempt to sharpen blade."

http://www.geocities.com/projectstm/lightsaber.html

[xwingband]

The matte mylar I have is white, but maybe there's different types. I use mine to draw with ink on.

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[supertrogdor]

Keep us up to date with pictures of your processes Vadeblade(and everyone else who desire to share thier light and knowledge), what works and what doesn't, the more information we get the better. I have liked some of what i have tried more than other things, but i am still yet to be TOTALY Dazzled. Granted i am a perfectionist on things like this, but i have been more than impressed even with some of the things that didn't work as well as i had hoped

[sglawrie]

I've purchased the mylar vaderblade mentioned and I'm quite happy with the results. Its a solid "beam" now - I do miss my coring effect (so I'll keep one blade using Corbin's film) but it certainly does capture the LED's light all the way down the blade and it shows off the light very well during daylight. (Darkness is much better of course).

I've got a little funny that I still need to address: Its a little bit brighter at the tip but I think thats due to sloppy rolling on my part and will need to fix it.

Sorry, I tried taking pictures but they're too blurry to be of any use. :(

But all in all, good find Vaderblade - I likey.

[ryanlb]

That looks pretty good. How much does the mylar cost?

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[sglawrie]

$27.50. Shipping to UK was a tad expensive (but it is 50 feet) so its to be expected.

I may have another go at it - whilst the red, royal blue, green and cyan look pretty good - amber and white (with all Tim's filters) looks a little disappointing, almost milky. I think I'll have to do some more scratching.

[luis rojas]

Hey guys, here´s an interesting idea: Canson paper, the one that engineers used to draw onto. It will be not as claer as wraping paper but the efect of the scratched one will be the same.
Heres a couple of pictures of some old ones. I will go and see if a can find some new ones at the store.
http://img65.imageshack.us/img65/2572/dsc059017ho.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img65.imageshack.us/img65/839/dsc059021ip.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://www.subir-imagenes.com/subir_imagen/c40df02d12.gif

[xwingband]

Canson is a brand... I believe I know exactly what it is despite that. It's matte mylar, lol![:D] I have 20 yards of it I use for my architecture work. I was planning on using it when I do a blade comparison with lots of different films.

I have in my possesion clear mylar, double matte mylar, and on the way I have a PolyC film (going to try to make a Corbin film type) and something even neater: UHMW Nylon film. The nylon film is like Tim's diffuser but as thin as mylar... neat.[:)]

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[sglawrie]

Hi,

I've got some pictures now. I've dropped them here as they are a variety of different types of LED on the one picture and they all relate to the Vaderblade clear mylar film.

Coloured LEDs look ok with this film. But I'm not too happy with amber or white with filters. (White on its own looks silver).
See for yourself.
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e17/sglawrie/lightsabers/comparison.jpg

[the_steve]

Dang, the picture with the 3 watt amber looked terrible. But i am liking the 1 watt green, but that's probably because i have one myslef.

__________________________________________________ ____
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[sglawrie]

Yeah, amber is pretty disappointing (with this film anyway) but the red-orange, royal blue and ,as as you say, green look great. I was really impressed with the 1W green and how it stands up to the 3W colours/ colors.
[8D]

[LAN-ED-TUL]

i found some stuff at wall world in the craft area. its a roll of clear gift wrap. i think this might be real similar to these other films you guys have tried. i dont have a extra blade to try it out on right now, but if someone else wants to look at their local wally world and see if this stuff might be of use in a blade, go for it, and let us know. its cheap too, 3 to 4 bucks a roll, back in craft area.

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Lan-Ed-Tul
The Brotherhood Of The Sith

You dont know the POWER, of the dark side...

[Jedi-Loreen]

<font size="3"><font color="blue">One thing about that film though, if you get any dust on it or inside the tube, those dust particles are gonna light up very brightly. I think this was also mentioned in the other thread, but I know this from personal experience, now.</font id="blue"></font id="size3"> [:p]


In order to see the Light, you must sometimes risk the Dark.

[xwingband]

I know what you are talking about, Lan. It's terribly thin stuff. It'd be an absolute nightmare to keep clean and wrinkle free before putting in the tube.

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[WeirdoTransvestite]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by LAN-ED-TUL

a roll of clear gift wrap.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Clear gift wrap? Doesn't that defeat the purpose of gift wrap, which is to not see the gift until you open it?

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[xwingband]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by WeirdoTransvestite

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by LAN-ED-TUL

a roll of clear gift wrap.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Clear gift wrap? Doesn't that defeat the purpose of gift wrap, which is to not see the gift until you open it?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

It's like the wrap they use on gift baskets.

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[LAN-ED-TUL]

yep, its clear gift wrap alright. x-wings right. i just seen it there, and with all the discussions bout the films, i thought id throw it out there. i didnt know if was feesible or not. just a find i wanted to share.

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Lan-Ed-Tul
The Brotherhood Of The Sith

You dont know the POWER, of the dark side...