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View Full Version : A couple of ideas to improve our Lightsabers!



Eandori
05-21-2007, 08:54 PM
Hey Guys,

I'm new to these boards, but reading through threads quickly. I didn't see anybody talking about these ideas already so I wanted to get them out there and see what you think. Sorry if somebody has already mentioned it.
Idea #1. Fixing the issue of dim-middle
I looked at pictures all around the website and saw how the lightsabers with a single super bright LED at the base have the problem of being bright at the hilt and end, but dead in the middle. I saw in another thread how somebody talked about using a lens to focus the beam to essentially disperse the light a bit more. Well, here's my thought...

Fill the blade with some type of lightweight material that can vary from being very clear (transparent) to very milky white (translucent). You want the clearer material near the LED, and the most "milky" part near the tip of the blade. The idea is that as light moves up the shaft, more light gets reflected out of the straight path as it travels farther down the blade. If you can get the diffusion of clear-->milky correct, you just might end up with an evenly-light dispersed blade! I would first suggest trying out clear packing foam. Grind it into smaller pieces for the tip and big clear chunks near the LED.

Idea #2 Clash Flash
After I opened up my Master Replica Lightsabers, I noticed that each LED had it's own Biasing resistor (around 390 Ohms). What I'm now planning on doing is switching those out for resistors around half the resistance (around 210 Ohms). Then near the emitter, I'll solder another resistor in parallel with another transistor. The new transistor will usually be OFF and the resistor limits the current to what the LED's normally get.

Now... wire the base of that transistor to the output of the clash sensor. (a bit of work there, depending on how it outputs) So that when the clash sensor goes off, the transistor turns ON and that new resistor is shorted. Now the LED's get nearly twice the current for a short period of time. The overall effect?

The blade flashes when the clash sensor goes off.

Cool huh?[/u]

Barmic Rin
05-22-2007, 12:50 AM
Anyone object if I handle this one??

First off, welcome.

Secondly, we already use different diffusion paper/tubes inside our blades, so not all of us have the problem of 'dim middle'. I only suffer it when my batteries are getting low.

As for the flash effects, may I offer you a slice of 'buttered toast'? :D
I only have BT v1 at the mo & I love the effects & sound from that, picking up a V2 at CE (as long as Erv holds one for me!!!)

We always appreciate new ideas & input, but I suggest you read up a little more as we already have ways around the problems you pointed out!
Don't be discouraged, we're always looking for wayts to improve the effects. :wink:

Novastar
05-22-2007, 02:06 AM
Eandori... I believe your idea on the MR board could indeed work, although you may find a few tiny roadblocks on the way through. Still--I think what you're hoping to do could work if you're careful enough.

As to dimmer middles--there are many ways of diffusing light, and what I've noticed over the last two years... is that everyone has preferences on how things should be illuminated. Some prefer a brighter "plume" of light near the bottom/emitter... while others prefer a more even lighting solution. Some solutions are acceptable + easy & "alteration-friendly"... while others are not.

Ultimately--what you want to do--is *DO* these things you say... post photos, explanations, and detail what worked as you expected and what did not. Then, people can make their own choices on what they think is better/worse.

As to being new--don't worry. We're a friendly forum here, but you will indeed find many answers to many questions all over the bloody place! :)

Barmic Rin
05-22-2007, 05:35 AM
Ask & ye shall Learneth dear boy! :D
At the end of the day, it all comes down to personal choice with the way your saber goes, it is yours after all.
Just check out other peoples designs & see which you'd prefer!

neophyl
05-22-2007, 05:52 AM
Yeah everything sounds like it will work electrically. Cant see a problem there. Even the clash sensor works on the positive side (one contact is conected to positive, the other becomes positive when triggered) so you can tap off from that via a suitable biasing resistor for your new transistor, may I suggest a mosfet for its extemely low on resistance.

All sounds great. You are however forgetting one of the big problems with the MR blades in the first place. The fact that you cant really duel with them as the connections to the led resistors break under impact leading to dark spots. Kind of seems pointless doing all this work modifying everything to make it brighter during a clash when the clashing breaks the blade.

Jedi-Loreen
05-22-2007, 10:12 AM
Not to mention the fact that it's a little too advanced for most people to do things like that on a circuit board.

jjshumpert
05-22-2007, 10:53 AM
if your looking for a " flash on clash " type effect, look into either the ultrasound module available for pre order here in the store or plecter labs crystal focus module. both have the desired effect and look great used along with corbins blades, also sold in the store. as for filling the blade i have tried out a few methods to get a more evenly lit blade and the truth of the matter is there are only some colored emitters that wont give a uniform apearance to the naked eye, when dealing with lux 3, k2 or 5w even my extremely sensitive eyes have a hard time picking up the dimming in the last quarter of the blade tube before the tip. you will always have this effect to some extent as opposed to the stock mr setup, but thats to be expected considering you are lighting the tube with only one led at its base instead of a string inside the tube, but hilts using the luxeon units are far brighter than the stock mr blade of the same color even with the mr blade tube that its pretty much worth dealing with the slightly dimmer end section. if your dead set on using mr blade tubes, get yourself some reflective disks and glue them into the tip of your blade and it will do alot to fix the problem. just remember its still a 1/16th sidewall blade and WILL NOT hold up to the same abuse that blades purchased here will, one good parry and the inner diffusor wrinkles and your left with a white crease in your blade tube...

Do-Clo
05-22-2007, 03:49 PM
I have a very simple solution for a saber with flash on clash buy a hasbro saber :wink: :shock:

Novastar
05-22-2007, 04:01 PM
To Do-Clo you listen! Mind what you have learned, save you it can! :)

Awww, Don why'd ya have to go and ruin a perfectly good and fun MR mod idea? :D

Although I agree with Phyl that flash on clash won't be so pretty when the LEDs start burning out from whacks and thwacks and ka-bangas... .... (?)

..."Ka-banga" is a choreography term too, so don't make fun!!! :D

Finally, yeah I can only imagine that:

1. Once the MR is taken out of the hilt...
2. Once the MR board parts are de-soldered...
3. Once the new parts are installed for Flash...
4. Including all of this labor...

...will it be an endeavor that costs $40 to $60 dollars? If so, the Ultraboard is $80, and the Erv board is about $130 (and programmable). Both boards drive a saber that is duel-able to heart's content. Even a broken poly-c will not stop the drivers from working.

I STILL think it's a worthy venture... but possibly not cost effective.

Do-Clo
05-22-2007, 07:16 PM
The big problen is that the transister proposed in the mod suggested would have to be able to handle 1000 ma of current requiring a large transister and a heat sink to keep it from burning out. Reailty sure can ruin a lot of ideas. :wink:

neophyl
05-23-2007, 03:44 AM
Not really Do-Clo. I routinely use mosfet transistors that are the same size as the ones already on the board and can handle 4-500ma constant and several amps in a pulse/surge situation. Thats without heatsinking as they have very low on resistance values and dont produce as much heat as a normal transistor.

As it would only be driving during the clash this wouldnt be a problem. As I said its all well within the realms of possibility. What lets its down is the physical engineering aspects. That and I wouldnt like to have to replace all those surface mount resistors, that would be a right royal pain in the backside.

pockets
05-23-2007, 05:53 AM
yeah, I'd rather just build a luxeon saber and buy a nice driver unit

Eandori
05-23-2007, 09:46 AM
Thanks for all the great replies guys,

My thoughts on the clash-flash for MR was very similar to what Neophyl said. It should not be too much current because it's very short duration. I was definitely thinking of using a FET due to the high resistance at the Gate. The biggest problem I was seeing electrically was getting the impact sensor to stay activated long enough for the LED's to ramp up in current and make the flash visable.

About the mechanics of it... Truth is, I challenge you to find many people with MR sabers that don't duel at least some with them. I have 4 of them and I duel with them all the time. You just have to slow down and play more of a contact game then really going at it. I did have some LED's shut off on a few of my sabers. I opened them up, debugged the problem, and found that the white PCB which runs traces to the LED's had breaks. I bridged the gaps with some small gauge wire (keeping in the 6 power on sections) and they work fine again.

So agreed... you cannot duel with the MR's as hard as others. BUT it's not like you cannot duel at all. They are breakable, but not delicate.

I REALLY like the power on, and power down effects of LED-in-Blade. I also really like the evenly dispersed light. I'll try to look around these boards to find the best way of dispersing the single driven LED method. If you guys can quickly point me to a thread, please do!

As for the parts to upgrade my MR blade for clash-flash, I really don't think it will be THAT expensive. It's probably going to be buying 64 surface mount resistors, 1 high power FET, and a few biasing resistors for the FET. Should not be too bad. I'm very excited to see how the flash clash effect comes out!

Barmic Rin
05-23-2007, 10:12 AM
Erv's buttered toast + Corbin blade is the best way of getting the clash apparently.
Can't vouch for it myself as my Corbin blade is currently on my order being processed, though I already giggle like a school girl when I duel with mine with Tims stock blade.

I can't say i'm as technically minded as Don, Phil, JJ etc. but I can see how your method could work. All it comes down to for me is effect, & I find MR blades clash isn't as good as Erv's or Ultras & I always worry about knackering LEDs when duelling with my MR.

Basically: WHAT THE HELL IS THE POINT OF HAVING A LIGHTSABER IF IT BREAKS BEFORE YOUR OPPONENT DOES?

Novastar
05-23-2007, 03:27 PM
Barmic... please be careful on language, as young kids CAN see this thread. Although I respect that particular thought on dueling, lol.

By the way, you do not need to use Corbin's diffuser film to get the "clash" effect. You can use any diffuser film you most prefer. There are any number of ways to diffuse a blade--some of which have yet to be tried. I like a variety, myself.

Also--wow, I didn't think Eandoric would have needed SIXTY-FOUR resistors per conversion! That seems like a much grander pain than I expected. That is cost in labor time, and again--for very little result.

I would highly recommend NOT doing this sort of thing for the value... but merely for the experience.

Do-Clo
05-23-2007, 07:53 PM
True a transiter can handle a lot of current if it is pulsed but consider a dueling situation, every time the clash sensor fires the transiter is going to fire and given enough consective hits it would generate repeated heat pulses that might not have enough time to bleed off before the next pulse hits. I always lean towards over-building to prevent a possible componet burn out problem.

neophyl
05-24-2007, 02:56 AM
Trust me it wont be a problem Do-Clo. One system that did something along these lines I designed was for an outdoor lasertag system. The leds are pulsed at 1.5-2amps for each 'shot'. Even programming them for 12-15 shots a second on a 100 shot clip you could still fire off 1000+ shots in a row without an appreciable heat problem.

Id like to see anyone do more than 15 strikes in a second with a sabre.

Hasid Lafre
05-24-2007, 03:24 AM
15 sps(strikes per second) they must be quick. I wander about the one on the deffencive side. if there slower by just a bit there in the drink after the first 6 strikes.

Do-Clo
05-24-2007, 08:10 AM
The amount of on time for the clash effect would be greater for the saber, if you were to match it to the length of the clash sound. You would need to do that to make the effect look realistic because if the bright blade flash has already occured and the sound is still playing then it would seem strange.

(Keep in mind I am used to meeting miltary specs for everything I build, its a hard habit to break) :wink:

Eandori
05-24-2007, 12:49 PM
Do Clo is correct on that point, the length of double current time must be long enough for the "flash" to be visible. I'm thinking 100-250 milliseconds. The power rails are not perfect, and have no stored capacitance, so it will have a ramp up time. Hopefully that ramp up time will be short enough to where the flash effect will look good.

Having said that, I'm still thinking over current will not be an issue. The clashes will not be that successive, and those LED's are not driven THAT hard.

As for the soldering, I work at Intel as an Engineer. I bring my MR-lightsabers to work and my co-workers and I clash with them all the time. We have several soldering stations and tools so resoldering 64 surface mount resistors will take me all of 25 min probably. I know it will be more difficult for others, but it's not impossible.

Having options is better then having none or one.

Novastar
10-08-2007, 12:30 AM
I know you've been busy Eandori, but... did you try resoldering/re-working any MR blades with this flash idea yet?

Now, myself... I'd rather see the Luxeon flash thing, but hey, I'm biased toward staged combat worthy props... :)

Corbin_Das
10-28-2007, 09:16 PM
Interesting thread here.
Just for the record, the drivers available here are also capable of "flash on clash". I called it Clash and Lock, or C&L. Basically, you wire in an impact sensor like what they use on Hasbro sabers to the two C&L contacts and when the blade strikes something, the blade flashes, then shimmers a little. Hooking up a momentary in parallel to the sensor allows you to replicate the effect to simulate blaster deflection. Hold the momentary button down engages the "lockup" effect and keeps the blade shimmering until you release the button.


Corbin

Novastar
10-29-2007, 12:37 PM
Yeah, it was kinda a neat idea, huh Corbin? :) MRs flashing all weird and all, heheh

As to the flash clash... Eandori is trying something quite different, as he's looking to use alternate LEDs or light sources to create even MORE light either within or outside the polytube for a much more distinctive and "shocking" effect rather than solely varying the LED current to the main Luxeon via over/under-driving.

Still, I agree--clash on flash is certainly available via Corbin's board and Erv's board. I'm not certain about Hyperdyne's, but I'm pretty sure it does some effects on a "collision" sense as well.

My guess is that the newer "STEVE" boards by Ultra will likely implement that idea, although I don't know for certain.

Eandori
10-30-2007, 02:32 PM
Just for completeness, I did end up building a clash flash lightsaber and made a video of it. My Youtube videos are linked through my signature if you would like to see.

I'm still in "research phase" for more improved versions of clash flash.

LAN-ED-TUL
10-30-2007, 03:33 PM
About the mechanics of it... Truth is, I challenge you to find many people with MR sabers that don't duel at least some with them. I have 4 of them and I duel with them all the time.

i got 2 and a 3rd i sold last year. 1 is still mint, the other has been lux converted. and NO! i dont duel with the stock MR at all.

thats just nuts considering the leds breakage factor. only way to make it duelable is a lux convertion.