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View Full Version : Help TCSS design an activator box



Corbin_Das
04-19-2007, 12:04 AM
Hi all
Well, we're thinking of making some sort of activation box. We'd like to get some opinions regarding what you would like it to be like. Things like dimensions, general shape, features and what not.


So please, feel free to post away.



Corbin

Ryma Mara
04-19-2007, 12:24 AM
I would love to see a low profile type box.

Like Just enought to where the plundger of the switch is sticking out the top just a bit. something styled like the machined "clamps".

I would love a switch box kinda like the one on your C&L box.

MAybe some slide switches to go with these so we could make out own luke rotj switch box.

Barmic Rin
04-19-2007, 03:20 AM
Slide switches yes, but how about at the top, not the side, more like the MR vader ESB one.
Definitely lower profile than MR ones so you don't catch your hand on the corners as you duel. Curved off corners too.

jjshumpert
04-19-2007, 06:04 AM
after talking with ryma the other nite about the possibility of using a switch similar to touch activated lamps, i thought it would be an awesome idea to have a "force activation" system.

lets say you were using an mpp clamp with threaded lever, you could place rubber into the channel for the bubble strip and then lay in the touch plate over that so it wont touch the metal of the clamp itself and then place either a memory chip over the top or a bubble strip with a small pin inside one of the cells so that touching a certain point on the box would activate the saber. rubber isolation would have to be used to ensure the hilt wouldnt activate by touching the hilt itself.

i would also like to see a stock of micro pressure switches in place of sliders, ie these could be used in place of mr mpp style sliding bubbles like that used on the vader with a pin to activate somewhere in the bubble strip.

as for the boxes themselves it would be nice to set up a mhs builder style box designer, something that would allow for choosing between several basic outer shapes, threaded holes for mounting, switch locations, lighting...

myself i would most want a good option for mpp/heiland and graflex style clamps. i have a few sources that could be used to stock these for a good price, and its one of those things that i personally prefer to buy and design to fit my needs instead of dealing with the huge pain of fabricating a clamp from stock.

ill be playing around with some design ideas on this subject, and as soon as i figure out working models ill post my results.

Strydur
04-19-2007, 08:01 AM
I would like to see this work a little differently. I want this first box we build to be a modular system. Probably just different tops but maybe one side also or something. But before we can start designing how it works we need to come up with the basic overall dimensions. So before we work on anything else I want everyones input on what the height,length, and width should be.

vortextwist
04-19-2007, 09:04 AM
I don't mind the lengths and widths on the mr's but the height is too much.

Barmic Rin
04-19-2007, 09:57 AM
.5" high, 2.25" long, 1.25" wide.
How's that? Too small?
I think that'd be a comfortable size, noticable but not overbearing on a hilt.

Dregan
04-19-2007, 10:07 AM
I second what Stryder says - make it modular. You could have a square, beveled tube that would be the body, available in different heights, and then different faceplates that sit on that.

If you screw the faceplate down, the body would be held in place by tension. You could even do body sections that wrap around the entire MHS like a Graflex clamp.

From there, TCSS or the builder can machine whatever slider/switch/PLI/whahoozit holes are necessary.

I have no rendering skills (nor software) so I might not be annunciating my thought clearly.

Jay-gon Jinn
04-19-2007, 10:15 AM
I would have it be around 2 inches long, 1/2 inch tall, and about 1/2-9/16 inches wide. I like the modular top idea, as well.

Barmic Rin
04-19-2007, 10:19 AM
How about a MHS graflex style clamp? Threaded both ends kinda like the m/m coupler? Have it slightly longer, and attach an empty box atop it so that you can change the covers/switch if you want?

Maybe have the base, both ends, and one side attached permanently, have a pair of grooves at the open side so you can change it from a blank plate to a switched one if you want a side-switch instead of a top one?

Am I making myself clear, or have I just confused you all as much as i've confused myself? :wink:

Jonitus
04-19-2007, 11:03 AM
JMHO:

Make it only as long as the shortest piece of the MHS - currently 2.5 inches. Height should be around 1/2 inch, and width should be around 1/2 inch.

I think that a plain rectangular box would work best initially, perhaps smoothing off the sharp corners ever so slightly so they don't catch on anything.

The tops of the box could easily be modular. Whether they slide into machined channels on the box (easiest), or bolt on.

Here's a sketch. Probably easier than trying to discern meaning from my post:

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b76/sixmilliondollarman/MHS_control_box_idea.png

Barmic Rin
04-19-2007, 11:10 AM
That's basically what I was trying to say, but make one side modular too, if you want a side mount switch!

Marsupial
04-19-2007, 01:22 PM
Jonitus has the perfect design IMHO.

I'd make so the dimensions fit the "standard" calculator bubbles and circuits for high compatibility with the market.

Firebird21
04-19-2007, 02:59 PM
I like the size of the Luke box, but I think the biggest issue with the boxes is how to mount them and how to mount stuff in them and still keep it as universal as possible.


As for size you need to be able to accommodate a switch and at least a couple of LEDs, because I know a lot of people are going to be cramming as much stuff into these as possible. I for one would be putting a J-Plug in it, (and if I had the room I would have had small LEDs behind the arrows on my Luke).

One other quick issue I'm finding is that when dueling, no screw is strong enough to hold the box onto the hilt without stripping out.

OK, to focus on the matter at hand, I think Clamp-type boxes would be good, but may be hard to produce cost effectively. Possibly having a 4-seporate-sided box would allow for more customization, but hard to assemble and be reliable.

I like Jonitus' setup as at least a starting point. It's basic, simple, easy to use, easy to manufacture, durable... However I think a top that would slide over it and cover the top of the box would be a good idea, as well as having a simple piece that slides into it.


I have more opinions, but lets see where this goes first. I don’t want to get too far ahead.

fau-pa ramid
04-19-2007, 03:41 PM
ok i like that one alot! i would buy that in a heart beat. :D

Tenric Starkindler
04-19-2007, 05:21 PM
if you want it modular why not go all the way.....the recommended dimensions seem just about perfect but what about:

1) make a base that is curved to fit the hilts and that attaches directly.

2) make a mid/body of the box that slides or attaches to the base. there could be a few different styles (open side/ open top / two open sides / rounded corners / polished / brassy)

3) then make a few tops/sides to finish it off.

a three piece system (one of which would be "universal"/ the base plate)

I think it makes for a very customizeable system........

the mid body could slide over the base plate and be secured by either small set screww or pressure from the base plate being tightened to the hilt.
then the top/sides could be added in and there would be quite a few combinations possible.......

include anodizing and it would be perfect!

Ryma Mara
04-19-2007, 05:36 PM
About the onlything I can think of to make them MHS style is to make them actual clamp like.
:?

Tenric Starkindler
04-19-2007, 06:42 PM
considering the neww offering of PLIs the activator box would have to include a method of using a PLI as well.............I mean Have to 8)

Ryma Mara
04-19-2007, 09:11 PM
Yeah maybe make it so you can slide the pli in it but I was also likeing the idea of taking tims switch and fitting it in the box. make it kinda clamp like so you just take a button head screw or something to bring the walls togeather just enought to hold the switch tightly in there.

supertrogdor
04-20-2007, 07:04 AM
What have you done to keep your activation box on your saber Firebird? Or is that the problem, that you haven't been able to, perhaps a locknut on the inside of the hilt may help, or would you want a curved piece to put between the inside of the hilt so the locknut could rest on a flat surface? Tossing out a couple thoughts, what do you think?

Firebird21
04-20-2007, 07:35 AM
What have you done to keep your activation box on your saber Firebird? Or is that the problem, that you haven't been able to, perhaps a locknut on the inside of the hilt may help, or would you want a curved piece to put between the inside of the hilt so the locknut could rest on a flat surface? Tossing out a couple thoughts, what do you think?

I've used the stock screws, larger-loner ones, and really course threaded ones... They all strip out after a duel. There's just not enough meat on the hilt to hold a screw with that much force, add to that the fact that it's aluminum and there's a real problem.

Also, the fact that the radius of the Luke Box is larger than the MHS allows it to rock back and forth adding additional stress to said bolts, doesn’t help matters.


I think a carriage for a lock nut, like you're talking about, would be a great solution. Something that fits the inside diameter of the hilt and will hold probably both lock nuts. But also slim so it doesn't take up too much space inside the hilt.


One thing I'd ask to be included with every box is a template for the screw holes and the inside hole of the box. It was a challenge to get those holes straight, and the center is still not completely cleaned out.



Edit: After re-reading Tim's post, I think one removable side is a very good idea. It would make installation of switches much easier, and it will add some more dimension and character to the box.

Jonitus
04-20-2007, 07:50 AM
I placed a layer of adhesive-backed craft foam between the Luke box and the MHS on the newest saber I built that I will be showing off this weekend. The box doesn't rock back and forth, is held on to the MHS with a couple 6-32 socket head screws, and I haven't had any problems...and I'll bet I dual as hard as anybody out there.

Maybe the layer of foam makes enough of a difference?

Firebird21
04-20-2007, 07:58 AM
I placed a layer of adhesive-backed craft foam between the Luke box and the MHS on the newest saber I built that I will be showing off this weekend. The box doesn't rock back and forth, is held on to the MHS with a couple 6-32 socket head screws, and I haven't had any problems...and I'll bet I dual as hard as anybody out there.

Maybe the layer of foam makes enough of a difference?


Excellent idea! I'll have to try that! That would help hold it on and keep it from rocking.

Brilliant!



Until you want to disassemble for some ungodly reason like polishing... But then that's just a matter of removing the tape residue I suppose.

DACOTA
04-20-2007, 09:11 AM
I'm gonna go out on the limb here, :idea: but what if it wasn't a box? Like at the edges make it slope down to the hilt and have recessed holes for screws.

jjshumpert
04-20-2007, 10:16 AM
http://a914.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/29/l_315c33e382243889d818e42cb9e0e619.jpg

box radius to fit mhs, cutouts on one side to look like vents, slide off top. other side cut out for switch.

Novastar
04-20-2007, 10:38 AM
I agree with Dacota... something curved, something low profile, something that is NOT a giant rectangle that sticks out like a sore thumb from the saber.

For clarification, I come from the "non-canon, I-don't-care-if-my-saber-looks-like-it's-Obi-Gonn-Skywalker's-or-Darth-Katarn's" kind of opinion... and naturally I look for something recessed and duel-friendly.

Marsupial
04-20-2007, 11:31 AM
I like Dacota and Nova's point of view... here's the CUSTOM saber shop, not the REPLICA saber shop.

however, I still want one of them box to put on a specific saber design of mine. Might get a Luke EPVI FX for that specific purpose.


Something I'd like is a modular activation matrix system (MAMS)* that would consist of a base (maybe even a MHS base) on which we'd add the elevation part (round, rectangle, you choose) over wich you would have a custom activation matrix (some could have holes for leds and the like)

this way, no 2 switch box would be identical, and you'd have room for extra ones for better customization.


* alternate names:
Modular Switch Box System (MSBS)
Modular Activation Box System (MABS)
Modular Clamp System (MCS)
Modular Button Box System (MBBS)

supertrogdor
04-20-2007, 11:36 AM
suppose we have Tim machine a flat section on an MHS piece (akin to the flat machined hole for switches) to allow for a modular box with a flat bottom, not sure if that would save overall time/expense of creation, just a thought that sprung up

Corbin_Das
04-20-2007, 11:38 AM
The only down side to machining a flat spot on the saber is that the box might not be installed straight. The curvature of the saber and the corresponding curvature machined into the bottom of the box helps allign the two and keeps things straight.

Nightwing
04-20-2007, 12:37 PM
I'd like a switchbox in the 1 3/4'' to 2'' range.

What I think would be cool is if you could get a spring-loaded plastic plate in the middle of the top of the box, just like the Hasbro sabers. That way you could use some clear plastic, put some LEDs (or EL wire) behind it, and etch out a cool design in the top that would glow all nice. Maybe something like this:

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f252/NightWing726/Lightsabers/NewPicture.png

Barmic Rin
04-20-2007, 03:48 PM
Nice use of the 'S' NW!

DACOTA
04-20-2007, 04:58 PM
Ok here we go,the size of the box is too big for the hilt but it gives you the idea,let me know if you dont understand it.

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h146/DACOTA007/Switchbox.png

Strydur
04-20-2007, 05:07 PM
There are a million different options when it comes to this subject. This first setup will be a box style and as modular as we can come up with. I like the idea of a base and then maybe a few side and tops. Just remember the more pieces = more cost. So lets get back to the first subject which is deciding on a specific size. I will make up a few ideas I have to show you all.

987654321a
04-20-2007, 05:10 PM
i can smell a contest. "best switch box." winner wins mhs sabers for life :D :lol:

Strydur
04-20-2007, 05:14 PM
The reward is being able to get a switch box you helped design :)

987654321a
04-20-2007, 05:23 PM
thats the greatest reward :)

Strydur
04-20-2007, 06:26 PM
Here are some renderings I tossed together for a size idea. The box is 2" long 1/2" wide and about 1/2" tall. On the first pic they are on a 7" tube.

http://www.thecustomsabershop.com/forum/images/box1.jpg

http://www.thecustomsabershop.com/forum/images/box2.jpg

Ryma Mara
04-20-2007, 06:56 PM
Man I wish I could design something.

I like that.

DACOTA
04-20-2007, 07:16 PM
Looks good Tim. I thought maybe just standard like the luke one,or should it be smaller? Oh and my box doesn't have to look like that with the switch and the fake screws I just want it to be a solid box with sloped edges,it would be all one machined piece.

Tenric Starkindler
04-20-2007, 07:28 PM
looks just like I had in mind!
should be a great addition to the line-up!!

ti-el_terall
04-20-2007, 07:30 PM
I would like to see a side with a small slit cut in it along with 2 small holes. So that you could mount the dpdt slide switch on it.

SilentBob501
04-20-2007, 07:34 PM
How about instead of a bulky switch box, we get something thats more flush mount that slides up and down, like on the MR Mace.

Jay-gon Jinn
04-20-2007, 10:16 PM
Wow, that's excactly what I had in mind, I just don't have a way to draw anything up!

Corbin_Das
04-20-2007, 11:28 PM
Interesting idea.
It might look cool doing that, but I'm not sure how modular that would be though.

SilentBob501
04-21-2007, 09:41 AM
well, i think you could make it modular. How about in addition to cutting circular switch holes in modular center sections, you could also offer the service of cutting rectangular holes for slider switches. Then you could sell different variations of slider switch caps.

Corbin_Das
04-21-2007, 11:27 AM
Hi SilentBob
That actually sounds like the direction we'll probably go with this. Ultimately, it's up to Tim, but I think that sounds like the direction we're wanting to go: Some type of base box (square, rounded or whatever) with a modular plate that can allow for switches, recharge ports, LEDs or even decorative plates.
One thing about the box Jonitus drew, trying to machine a square slot like that would be a pain. If there's going to be a slot like that, having it rounded would be easier:

http://server2.uploadit.org/files/corbinspics12-MHS_control_box_idea_rounded.JPG


Corbin

Strydur
04-21-2007, 11:52 AM
The plan is to come up with the size first.

Then we will discuss all the different center and top section ideas.

For something more low profile we could even have a piece that just uses the bottom and a top section.

I know everyone wants something different but first off we are doing a modular box design so lets concentrate on that and not other designs.

Firebird21
04-21-2007, 12:34 PM
The plan is to come up with the size first.


I vote for this one...



http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b76/sixmilliondollarman/MHS_control_box_idea.png


Being a "Prototype" I think that's the best dimensions to start with.

DACOTA
04-21-2007, 12:37 PM
I agree. You dont build a house thinking of what color its going to be, you start at the base. :D So lets start at the base of the shape and size of the box.

Strydur
04-21-2007, 05:32 PM
If you look at the pics I posted on the last page the box is only 2" long at 2.5" long it seemed too long to me. I could do up a comparison pic I suppose.

Corbin_Das
04-21-2007, 07:05 PM
As far as dimensions go, this one that I have here is about 2" long, 3/4" wide and 1/2" tall at the center. It's pretty comfortable IMO.

http://server2.uploadit.org/files/corbinspics12-box.jpg

http://server3.uploadit.org/files/corbinspics12-boxrounded.jpg

Corbin

xwingband
04-21-2007, 07:48 PM
I'm observing this... when I'm back fully I'll probably throw some renders out here.

BUT

I see two veins here: A "we don't like boxes" and a "let's figure out the box length" groups

I understand the no box stuff and I think a system for switch covers need to be made. The rest should be size discussion... on that, I'm with Corbin and Tim. 2" long, 1/2" high and 3/4" sounds about right.

Lord Maul
04-21-2007, 07:51 PM
kinda off topic, but how are ya doing Xwing? school and everything all right?

Marsupial
04-21-2007, 10:45 PM
back on topic,

2" long, 1/2" high and 3/4" sounds good.

I mentionned it before, but if we'd be able to compete with a genuine graflex clamp and accept the "normal" calculator bubbles, it would be awesome.

[me takes ruler and graflex]

2 inch long, 1/2" high and 5/8" wide is the size of the graflex. If we make it too large (3/4") we won't be able to get genuine vintage calculator bubbes in the clamp, and that would be a shame. (unless we plan on making the inner slot not as large as the clamp...?)

Strydur
04-23-2007, 07:43 AM
Ok keep the ideas coming. I will do up renderings to show the couple most liked sizes and we will do a poll or something.

We can make the top piece able to hold bubble strips etc..

Nightwing
04-23-2007, 02:27 PM
Okay, here's my idea:

It follows the basic "box with open top" idea that many have expressed here:

Long side:
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f252/NightWing726/Lightsabers/ActivationBoxlongside.png

Short side:
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f252/NightWing726/Lightsabers/ActivationBoxshortside.png

Top:
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f252/NightWing726/Lightsabers/ActivationBoxtop.png

It would likely have to have a metal bottom, though, since there would be no other easy way to attach it.


The inside of the box would be totally customizable, and any type of switch could be contained inside:

Pushbutton switch:
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f252/NightWing726/Lightsabers/ActivationBoxlongside-ButtonOption.png

Slider switch:
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f252/NightWing726/Lightsabers/ActivationBoxlongside-SliderSwitchO.png

Spring-raised pushbutton switch (like the Hasbro toy sabers):
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f252/NightWing726/Lightsabers/ActivationBoxlongside-Spring-raised.png


The switches could possibly even be modular switch "cartridges", which would contain a switch assembly and a quick connector wire. That way you could just slap the cartridge in the box. The spring-raised switch plate picture best represents this idea (the entire switch assembly is contained within the box, not the hilt).

This entire idea could also theoretically be flipped on its side, so that one could put switches in or on the side(s) of the box. Heck, for ultimate (but possibly overcomplicated) customization, you could even make the box a mere frame, giving the builder the options of where to put metal plates or switches.
I personally like the idea of having different models of switch boxes, each with the open section in a different place.

chase
04-25-2007, 10:19 PM
i think the luke style box is a little too big. maybe when you come out with the final drawing of it, have two different sizes...one a fourth smaller for people like me who dont like the big luke box. i also like the idea of a beveled edge center piece, but, i think that with doing that it would cost more just to get a box. but then again you could do some different customization that had no box with a beveled edge too. for the initial switch, i dont know. i like the simple push button switch. (even though mine broke and i had to go buy a super big one at lowes which i actually like better.)

Ryma Mara
04-27-2007, 02:14 AM
I was thinking of soemthing like this. if we want to make these switch boxes as MHS as possable how about making sure they fit inbetween the new F/F extention part with the grip deviders in.

Shinobi
04-27-2007, 06:24 AM
I like design Corbin has up there, I think as a starter point you need to go in the middle ground, not too big and not too small.

For me the main benefit of the box will be enabling me to install more electronics in the hilt than I would have normally been able too.

Obviously one of the main candidates would be the new PLI board just released, so I'm hoping that we'll see a machined top to fit that?

Barmic Rin
04-27-2007, 07:05 AM
Are we starting to see a comfortable size yet?
Most are going for around 2" x 1/2" x 5/8"
That way we can use bubble strips from graflex repro's, calc strips etc.

With a little work i'm sure we can get the PLI to fit comfortably.

Anyone have Parks' 'shadow' to hand? I'll post measurements for the box on later that if no one beats me to it. Anything smaller than that would be pretty comfortable for me.
Just so long as those corners are smoothed off!


shinobi, you get my PM?

Luke-SkyMarcher
04-29-2007, 03:52 PM
2" x 1/2" x 5/8"

Sounds good to me.

I like the idea of being able to switch in calculator bubbles, curcuit board peices (finally, a use for the fried hasbros! and we get to cut them into slices! :twisted: ) or "gold teeth" (like on the luke ESB), the PLI, our own designs... etc, etc, etc... :D sounds pretty modular to me!
I do think, however, that the slot should go all the way through and out the other side, not stop next to the end... seems like it would be easier that way.

-Luke

HK81
04-30-2007, 03:56 PM
Have you guys thought of using the Yoda style ( with or without) the band
for the pushbutton switches? You could mount the switch in the hilt and push up through the bottom of the box. It's not a very deep box.

Also, what about using the dpdt round shaft switch under the Luke style box. My idea is not to mill the box underneath. Leave it solid with the curve on the bottom. Drill a hole in the bottom of the box the size of the shaft and put a set screw in the side of the box to tighten against the shaft. The hole box would move forward & backwards as you turn on & off the switch. Of course you would still want to mill the top to fit the circuit board or the bubbles.

This is my first post so I'm a rookie. Just some ideas. If you don't like, trash em. I'll try the second idea on the my Luke version and see how it works when I get a chance.

http://new.photos.yahoo.com/hk81@sbcglobal.net/photo/294928804354750833/0

Ryma Mara
04-30-2007, 09:19 PM
I have heard of folks taking door bell switche boxes and altering them to look like a yoda box.

Marsupial
05-01-2007, 07:43 AM
It's actually not a bad idea. the wireless ones even have a rubber button.

Ryma Mara
05-03-2007, 11:59 AM
I think a box prolly the size like Jay has on his would be good too.

http://www.saberknights.com/members/jay-gonjinn/LuxSaberGallery.htm

But in the meantime how would I go about making my own switchbox? I thought about altering a doorbell switch case but dismissed that idea as there would be alot of cutting glueing and sanding on something as small and fragel like they are.

DACOTA
11-01-2007, 08:02 AM
Lets liven this topic! I love that idea, its a very thin box so it should work very well. So Tim and Corbin, any news on the whole box idea? This topic has been dead for a while so I thought we should open it again.

I really would love to see a tcss box here.

Strydur
11-01-2007, 08:39 AM
I would love to make one but every time we start to design one there are 5 million suggestions and the details never get hashed out.

darth ney
11-01-2007, 09:11 AM
how about something you could possably put in a glove or a ring that will send a signal to a chip in the saber turning it on, with like a delay of 3-5 seconds or so,so you have time to take it off of your belt before it activates. i think that would be cool as it would only let you be the master of the saber (no one else could turn it on). :twisted: i belive that fits in with a story someone made for their sw personna

valeon
11-01-2007, 09:23 AM
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b76/sixmilliondollarman/MHS_control_box_idea.png
My vote is for this, I would love being able to slide different "cards" into that slot, so many different things you can do with it. Just like the one saber of Jays, http://www.saberknights.com/members/jay-gonjinn/LuxSaberGallery.htm, you could just make a hole in the card for a button.

darth ney
11-01-2007, 10:53 AM
would my idea even be possible?

valeon
11-01-2007, 11:48 AM
That was discussed a little while ago in another thread, I'm not sure which it was, but it was decided to be a little too complicated.

darth ney
11-01-2007, 12:55 PM
oh ok nevermind then :oops:

DACOTA
11-01-2007, 07:30 PM
I'm all for Valeons idea, a nice short box like Jays. I would feel really good on the hands. Why not take a vote or somthing for submitted designs like the design contest?

Jay-gon Jinn
11-01-2007, 09:01 PM
Something similar to what's on my custom saber could work. It's similar to the sketch posted above, but the groove is open on either end. It's also not entirely hollow, either. It's been machined to fit a particular switch, but a TCSS switchbox could be machined with an opening to fit diferent size switches, and holes for one or two mounting screws.

valeon
11-01-2007, 10:04 PM
That would be great. With cards and such that could slide in, it could be the modular switchbox system. Maybe sell different cards with different designs with holes in them for the switch to protrude.

DACOTA
11-02-2007, 07:44 AM
Lets get it started! :D Please Tim.