LED Blasters -- need some help for BOP II!

[Novastar]

Ok, so BOP II is only a month or so away, and despite having about 8 months to work on a solution for some LED props (namely BLASTERS)... I've not been able to come up with successful information or much help. Thank heavens one of my cast members is helping to get this done now.

So, I'm hoping to enlist the help of readers here.

Here's what the idea is (so far):

* 8 Luxeon LEDs -- yes, eight

3 Lux III RED/RED-O on one side of the barrel
3 Lux III RED/RED-O on other side of the barrel
2 Lux K2 White in front w/optics
No optics on the "side" LEDs

* LEDs in parallel (I think)
* A single 3.6v Li-Ion battery
* Resistor or resistors
* Recharge port
* Some kind of trigger switch, hopefully one that can't be "held down", but I don't know if we have much of a choice

No sound is needed nor wanted to be dealt with (at this point--maybe a year from now). No special driving other than an instant bright flash from all LEDs all at once.

The thinking is that one short "burst" of LED draw... won't eat even a small battery all that much. You'd have to pull the trigger repeatedly for like a half an hour in order to fully kill the battery... that is my guess at least.

None have been made yet. We need FIVE. Here are some other thoughts:

1. We may want to use a BuckPuck or whatever.
2. We might not be able to light the LEDs just doing one 3.6v (4.2 effective).
3. The "draw" on the battery may be too high for it to handle getting the LEDs to a decent brightness.
4. It's not important that the blasters be *EXACTLY* 8x as bright as any "regular saber"... only that they are equally bright or greater. My guess is, they will AT LEAST be 2x to 3x as bright.

That's all I have for now. It's a tough project, and I'd really appreciate some help. I need you guys the most right now!!! :)

[Lord Maul]

for the switch/trigger, just go to radio shack. they have some tiny momentary buttons that would be perfect for the trigger. then it's just a matter of mounting them in a comfortable spot.

for the leds, you might want to consider one watters. if anyone is looking at the blaster when it "shoots", they will for SURE be temporarily blinded and given sun spots. just glancing at a 3 watter makes a big dot that covers most of your eyesight. i can't even imagine 6 3 watters AND 2 k2s :shock: :shock:

[Do-Clo]

I am converting a clone trooper blaster to a single luxeon one watt led and I am using a short section of polycarbonate tubing to go inside the barrel to be visible throught the vent holes. I have installed a double wrap of blade film so the the inner barrel will have a nice glow to the side and I plan on leaving the end of the barrel open or I may look into some focusing optics, that way I will be able to put a red spot on what ever I point it at. I am using 3 degree optics to get a really narrow focus on the led.

Having said all that if you used a single atlas white led in the barrel with a short section of blade with a wrap of red colored film such as that used for stage lighting then it may give you the results without a lot of extra parts.

[Jedi-Loreen]

I agree with Do-Clo, the simpler, the better. I would probably use a method like he's talking about, if I were doing that myself.

8 Lux IIIs? Isn't that a bit of overkill, even on stage? Are you trying to blind everyone within a 50' radius and a 200° arc? :shock: :P

Even the super bright regular LEDs are awfully bright when you are looking right at them.

I made an Endor Commando version of a "Thermal Detonator" using 2 of those, and even though I sanded the clear housings with some extra fine sand paper to diffuse them a bit, they are still so bright that you can't look directly at them.

[elrond.406]

Hey Novastar! You decided to add two more luxeons!?! :shock: I mean, six was more than enough to blind a person. Don't want a jedi blinded on stage, do you? :lol:

[Novastar]

I am talking more about the wiring/battery issues I might run into... but... thanks for the comments everyone... let's see:

* Switch

A momentary would be bad since that would cause the blaster to STAY on. Very bright... so we'll have to find something to briefly complete the circuit and release. That might be more like a security "buzz me in" door setup. As long as the button is depressed... on it goes. Otherwise... it's off.

* Do-Clo

Like a mini-LED saber, yes... I have indeed thought of something like that, but they aren't very bright (for BOP II purposes). We even thought about using Xenon lamps, but they recharge too slowly. We might use a combination though! Sweet. ;)

* Brightness

I am going with the large amount of LEDs for brightness. Don't worry about people being "blinded". Everyone who speaks of this is talking about looking directly into a high-power LED for a duration larger than a brief moment with focal optics. Besides, I like to push the envelope, and audiences are pretty far away. THESE ARE *NOT* to be toys.

Besides, we can always "tone it down" if the light is too bright with a diffuser film that goes over the 6 total barrel side LEDs... and it will further protect them.

* Simplicity (??!!?!?!?)

LOL. Have you seen Balance of Power? :) Who the heck thinks it was an affair of "simplicity"??? Raise thine hand?

Hmm... Methinks not. ;)

I don't call my business "The Cutting Edge" for nothing. I may have a low budget, but that doesn't stop my projects from being... unique.

[Jedi-Loreen]

Um, you do want a momentary switch for this application. It's only on as long as you keep the connection closed by pressing on it.

[Lord Maul]

JLo said it. all you do is tap the button for a bright flash

[Novastar]

That's true, however there are at least two types of momentary switches... normally open, normally closed... I thought earlier someone was talking about normally closed (which would be bad for this).

[supertrogdor]

or you could make your own switch. Put a spring on your trigger to keep it in the off position, and have a point where when you pull the trigger it taps a contact that completes the circuit midway through your pull and passes it, that could give you the quick burst you are hoping for, but unless you want the mp5 double shot action you would need to insulate the connection lest you get a second connection on the way back. Might be a cool effect though. Maybe you could work a couple contact points and get a 3 round burst effect
just tossing out ideas, as that is what i thought you were after, not randomly handing out ridiculous criticism for what may well proove to be a grand idea in the making, good luck and hopefully i have given you something else to think about

[Novastar]

Hi super... that's a good idea... I think Mark (my designer) was talking about something like this.

The idea behind the thread IS to get criticism and ideas, but yeah I am going to try shooting things full of holes (so-to-speak) to make sure we really get it right.

To be honest, I guess I should have been more clear that it is not so much the switch or mounting of the LEDs I'm concerned with...

...it's the BATTERY setup. In other words, would it work, would it produce a dim amount of light, not have enough power, etc. etc. etc.

But this is why I'm trying to get thoughts on the blasters. I'm not a wiring expert--I'm just a choreography dude who's learned a TINY bit about wiring over the past year.

Mark seems to have tons of confidence in the project, but as always I'm trying to cover all bases to ensure the products will behave as wanted.

[supertrogdor]

if that is your primary concern, you should certainly look into a buckpuck, it gives you the mA as long as you supply adequate current, at least that is what i would do, you might PM DoClo, he had done quite a bit with pucks and could give you further details

[Novastar]

SuperT--that is also a very good idea... :)

I was just talking with DoClo on something else, so that would be cool probably.

Mark was thinking about using a driver as well, and I think he meant pucks also. I'll ask him and double-confirm with Do Clo.

This is basically what it's all about. Confirming if any of my ideas are TOTALLY bonkers, or if--yes indeed it is possible. It appears it's quite possible to do this 8 Luxeon setup... even though it is NOT meant to light up and stay on for extended periods of time...

...what "blaster" prop would WANT that, anyhow? :)

[Ravage179]

just a thought, you can pick up a paintball electronic trigger that has a variable speed setting that will get you that full, semi, 3 round burst firing setting?

http://www.warpig.com/paintball/technical/paintguns/tippmann/a5etrigger/index.shtml

[Novastar]

Ooo... good one ravage! That's a good idea... thanks! I will pass that on to my designer and see if it will help him more.

We had our prototype blaster at rehearsal today... it was pretty cool! And very bright. Still, it had some issues... but worked well for a proto.

We'll see what the next few weeks entail with the blasters. :)

[Ravage179]

no prob nova jus make sure you post lots of pics when its done! :D

[Novastar]

Certainly... will do. Photos are always nice, and I only hope it helps others do similar things.

[Lord Maul]

could ya also post a video closeup of the blaster in action for us nova?
me want to see this bad boy

[Novastar]

That is also a good suggestion, LMaul... copy that, will do.

As for now, I've got to work on the soundplot a bit more, post rehearsal video for my cast (and for others to view in a short while)... work on my Plecter saber for C4... and pray my knee injury gets better very quickly so that I can complete training for my acrobatics.

If I mess up ANYTHING acrobatic-wise... that will likely be the end of my knee forever. So please... if you like BOP...

THINK HAPPY THOUGHTS FOR NOVASTAR!

As Han said:

"Good luck... (pause)... yer gonna need it!" :)

[markusdark]

Hello everyone,

I am the guy who has had the "privledge" of constructing the blaster prototype for Novastar. It seems as if everytime I get it done, he has yet another suggestion/change to make. But since I have a degree in theater, I'm used to the "director's mind" as it were. ;)

What had originally started out as only 4 LED's has turned into the final 8. I will actually be designing each blaster uniquely as we have no two identical blaster bodies. The first one is all but finished and I'll be happy to post some pics of it later today.

The original body is a toy clone trooper gun that could have a can of silly string inserted into the barrel and used that way. However, these have been recalled due to the fire hazard that silly string poses. The good news is that it allowed me to put all of the electronics into a piece of black PVC piping and simply insert it into the same space.

The wiring has 6 Red III's in parallel (three on a side) on one circuit. A second circuit has two white K2's wired onto it - one facing out the barrel and the other facing back inside of the barrel. The second one was an attempt to create a 'muzzle flash' inside of the barrel itself but didn't go over too well. Both circuits run from a single power source and each has a 3 watt resistor.

I am running 9 volts through the system as it was the battery pack I had available to me at the time and since it works so well, I figured I'd just keep it. As for the trigger, I simply modified the trigger already in the gun by adding a piece of metal to the moving trigger part and a spring to contact it when it is pulled, thereby completing the circuit.

The result is that we have a very bright gun. I can see the light bounce off of an indoor wall 30 feet away during daylight hours. If you happen to be looking at the side of the gun within 10-15 feet when the trigger is pulled, you will see spots. The barrel light doesn't seem to blind the actors due to the distance and the fact that the gun is aimed at their chests and not their heads.

For the character of the Imperial officer who has a blaster pistol, I will actually be mounting one of the blade holder kits to a pistol and using that as the main flash system.

[markusdark]

Here are the pics: Remember that these are in a fully lit room. In fact, the photographer turned on additional lights to get the full detail. :P Oh, and as a cavaet, it is taped together just because it is easier to work on it that way then undoing 12 screws each time. :)

http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/7923/pic3xh5.jpg

http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/4742/pic2gs8.jpg

http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/13/pic1wa9.jpg

[Lord Maul]

SWEET!!!
that is so awesome!

great work on that blaster mark 8) 8) 8)

[987654321a]

nice... thats all i have to say, and 3 3w reds. ouch that would be pretty blinding.

[Novastar]

Thanks for posting Mark.... :)

Mark was "Toxac Miasmidor" in BOP I (the sort of creature-esque Sith dude who gets torn apart by Valaris Skyblade's dual sabers)... and also built his own Vader conversion saber for BOP I. :shock:

He also built Sariss Y'Aislyeen's saber--the jedi female character who is killed in BOP I. :shock:

He'll also be playing the role of an Imperial Admiral in BOP II... and did I mention he pretty much did the set design for BOP II??? ???? :shock:

Mark's help has been ENORMOUS to BOP I & II, and for that I am quite grateful.

As to me changing my mind on blasters--definitely! I mean, it's hard to know what to go with... camera flash, or LED or both or whatever... the trick is making what is most EFFECTIVE... yet easy to repair and build. Not to mention it's nice if the things can cost $100 or less, heheh.

It would have been brighter to go with like 40 low-powered LEDs all over the place on the gun... but a wiring nightmare without a specially-made PCB... tons of coin... and a lot of patience to mount them...

:)

[Do-Clo]

Impressive, most impressive :shock:

[Marsupial]

It would have been brighter to go with like 40 low-powered LEDs all over the place on the gun... but a wiring nightmare without a specially-made PCB... tons of coin... and a lot of patience to mount them...

how about 1 luxeon & fiberoptics everywhere you need it?

[Barmic Rin]

Mark, how about a diag for the circuit?
I have a guy I work with looking at doing some small light effects when he's DJ'ing.

I showed him your pics & he reckons that would be ideal to compliment his main set lights.

[markusdark]

Here's the wiring diagram:

http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/9849/wiringeo1.jpg

Basically, it is just a series of LEDs wired in parallel with a resistor at the start of the circuit so that I don't fry them too quickly. :) If this is going to be something that is used over some time, I'd suggest actually getting one of the power regulators such as the buck puck 700ma version as it will keep the power nice and even. For something as quick as a trigger pull, I didn't bother.

I have found that by creating new circuits, you can have more "strings" of LED's in parallel off of the same power source without any degredation in the power of the signal. However, for each circuit, you'd need another resistor/regulator.

In case someone doesn't know what in parallel means, it means simply connecting all of the positive leads of the LED's to the positive of the power source and all of the negatives to the negative of the power source. However, with the LEDs, you don't need an individual wire from each LED to the power source - you can connect a positive from one LED to the positive to the next and so on. If you look at the unlit close up picture, you can see how I did this.

Note that the more LED's you put in parallel, the dimmer the light will become for all of them, so you'll need to step up the voltage. For the gun, I found that 6 volts didn't give me the intensity that was needed but 9 does just fine. I could probably push it a bit more but since I am using a rather rudimentary way to keep the wattage in check, I figured I shouldn't risk it.

[Novastar]

Don't forget--what Mark and I are doing with these... is on a limited budget (wait, there *IS* no budget, this comes out of Nova's POCKETS and some of Mark's too!!! D'OHHHH!!!!!)

Anyhow... :D

If I wanted to do it "right", we'd go uber-nuts and mount as many LEDs as we could, give it something like 12v... buckpuck/toot it or what not... use different circuits (maybe for EACH led)... add SOUND... add camera flash... etc.

But that would be about $1000 per blaster. Ahem. Let's not and say we did.

Mark has made a VERY sweet solution--with very little to work with. As it is... we still don't have the remaining physical blasters yet because finding them in "walk into" stores has proved unnervingly impossible. So we had to buy online. Takes weeks to get here...

I just hope there's enough time for testing since we need to be sure that they don't break... :D