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Marsupial
04-02-2007, 08:41 AM
I've been given a sound board from a collector friend of mine, he says its from a Kenner toy saber.

I'd like to know if any of you tried them in custom work before as I am wanting to use it in experimenting with speaker placement and resonance chamber in my saber.

The board is rectangular - 2 wires for power, 1 for light, 2 for speaker and 2 for impact sensor.

The impact sensor really is a rod with a spring around it.
the speaker is a tad bit bigger then 1.5 inch. Bummer, won't fit in most sabers.

I'd like to know how durable these boards are. experimenting with it, I know it seams to support 4AAs not so bad. I tried to power my 3W luxeon out of that and it seams to hold.

The ignition/retraction is made by blinking the light, there's also some flash on impact.
There isn't really any swing effects, sometimes you hear one after a clash.

the speaker has written specs of 0.25W 8ohm. I changed it for a MR speaker for a louder sound, but different tone. sounds OK.


I'm wondering if I can use this setup on a long period with no damage or if I'd end up frying the board. I never had Kenner toy sabers, but I assume it used 2 or 3 D battery.

Novastar
04-02-2007, 11:16 AM
If the board originally handled "X" volts on whatever batteries... it can still handle "X" volts even with a Luxeon setup. :)

Remember, A, AA, AAA, C and D cells--are all 1.5 volt battery cells. The trick may be determining if the board was wired for the battery life @ 1.5v or for the voltage at 3.0v.

I doubt you could run 5v+ into it for too long, so I wouldn't try it. 4.5v might be a stretch too... that I don't know.

Finally, a slightly-larger-than-1.5" speaker can fit into a 1.5" sink tube that has a "screw-on" end-cap. :)

Marsupial
04-02-2007, 07:12 PM
When my friend gave it to me, he tough it was fried. He was powering it with a 9V square battery - it doesn't work with 9V. I believe the board was made for 3 or 4.5 volts, but have no big knowledge of the kenner sabers. I only assume it used 2 or 3 batteries.
Nevertheless, I'd run 4 rechargeable AA batteries (4.8 volts) so far it seams to accept it.


As far as the speaker goes, I had hoped to fit it in my king-sol twist-on pommel, but it won't fit.

But it seams to fit in a shower-tap so I still have hope to use it somewhere. ;)

Jay-gon Jinn
04-02-2007, 09:45 PM
Kenner's are the same as Hasbro's so Id say yes, people have used them before. Don't go any higher than 4.5 or 6 volts. You'll fry it. You can replace the speaker with the one from store and it will work fine. I used a similar board in my custom saber for years until I finally upraded to an MR board. I also ran a Lux III from the board with no problems. The older toys used two C cells for 3.0volts, and a flashlight bulb. The newer ones used three AA's for 4.5volts and led's to light the blade. It says lamp on the board, right? It proabaly came from a 3 volt toy, so I wouldn't go much higher than 4.5 volts on it. I'd go with the 4.8 rechargeables.

erv
04-03-2007, 04:32 AM
without thinking immediatly to the use of a voltage regulator (which would scare easily non electronic geeks), you can use one or two diodes to lower the voltage from the main batteries.
Power the luxeon with the normal voltage (are you using a simple resistor to limit the current in the luxeon ?). Take the positive wire out of the batteries and put the diode(s) in serie. The positive side of the diode is the one without a bar on it. Each diode will lower the voltage of about .7 volt. After the diodes, you'll have a lowered voltage that can go to the sound board.
The current used by such a board might be under 100 mA, but prefer anyway to use of "power" diodes like 1N4001, 1N4004 or any regular silicium 1A diode (generally black, 2 or 3 mm OD, kathode marked as a white stripe).
Don't forget that a fully charged 4.8 pack easily goes up to 5.2 or 5.4V
Erv'

Marsupial
04-03-2007, 09:52 AM
It is not written lamp on the board. In fact, very little info is written on the board. I think its from the very early models, but haven't experience with Hasbro boards either. Maybe I should take it in pics for the benefits of others...

Thanks for the tips erv, but I'm more scared about killing the board then damaging the luxeon; I already had a circuit on that same saber that I would replicate using the board instead of a switch. My main concerns are really about the kenner board; I have no specs...

If I can run it at 4.8V without problem for a while, can I assume I won't fry it?


I plan on making adjustments inside my hilt using this board untill you come up with the V2, then use this board in another saber in parallel with a corbin driver. This way the current saber will be fully ready to accept the V2 when time comes.

(lots of experimenting at low cost without destroying any functionnal technology :) )

erv
04-05-2007, 05:30 AM
Have fun with the kenner saber, it's really great to experiment ! I've made sabers with combination of personnal luxeon driver and old sound boards, this is great, it makes a nice saber !

Marsupial
04-05-2007, 08:21 AM
Thanks! I agree they are fun.

plus it gives me time to work on all the internals before I have the actual sound board I intend it to have, so quicker fun when I have the real deal.

I need to do some measurments about the inside of the hilt, I think I might have to change my pommel to have room for a resonance chamber for my speaker :(

Jay-gon Jinn
04-05-2007, 09:50 AM
Hey, Mars, here's a pic of the Hasbro board I recently replaced with an MR. It might help:
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o141/Jay-gon_Jinn/lux_saber_hasbro_board_alone.jpg

Marsupial
04-05-2007, 10:14 AM
its a different board.

I'd say the board itself is about the same width but twice as long. Plus, the clash sensor isn't soldered on the board, but loose with wires. Also, the sensor is about 1.25 inch long. I still have to figure how I'll put that in the saber ^_^

but seing how its made, I'm most certain I could make something similar if I find a suitable spring.

vortextwist
04-05-2007, 01:46 PM
everyone post's diff pics of the one I got, I can't find a pic with how to wire it up anywhere. this is out of an luke rotj, about 7 years ago new.

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i259/vortextwist/light%20saber%20pics/newlightsabers007-1.jpg

Marsupial
04-05-2007, 02:12 PM
yep, that's the one.

I added a switch, the switch was onboard which isn't very practical.

vortextwist
04-05-2007, 02:27 PM
how did you go about that? this one used 2 C cell batt.

erv
04-06-2007, 05:04 AM
yep, as marsupial said, it's fine however with a 4.5 or 4.8V voltage, but someone said as well it should not be powered to high, something about 6V will kill it.
It's not so "strange" that it works at higher voltages however since it hasn't any regulator, it has a certain limit for the power supplie.

Marsupial
04-06-2007, 08:14 AM
I installed it in my King Sol.!

Ok... I still need to pierce the pommel for sound to come out, but we already hear it. muffled, but its there. Makes a huge difference already.

I placed the board over a 2*2*1 set of AA batteries, with the clash sensor in parallel with the batteries. I even have room for the speaker, but I must say 100% of the inside of my hilt is taken! The clash sensor doesn't work all the time and some directions are better then others. I think I don't have ennough room for it. Nevertheless it is fun. I kind of have a deluxe hasbro saber. Its cool.

Now I'll have to finish the alterations to the saber - I'll need a clamp added in order to have extra leds and the FX button - unless I find a better trick. I'll also need to pierce that damn pommel. I guess I'll buy a drill press. :evil:

Ryma Mara
04-06-2007, 09:09 AM
I would say mount the clash bit going side to side instead. it will make the sencor work better I would think.

Marsupial
04-06-2007, 01:39 PM
It just won't fit inside my saber that way. For the spring to work, it need to flex a bit, bend ennough to hit the central rod. If I place is sideways, I have no room to let it move as I hit the side of the hilt tube (king sol).

Also, the motion of the blade and sensor should be the same to allow for reception of most blade impacts. If I place it perpendicular to the blade, and I hit the blade in that specific perpendicular direction, the spring won't move and the sensor won't perceive the clash, resulting in no sound.

The current setup works well in some directions and needs a little more force in others. I should try it in battle to see how it goes.

DruidsNightMare
04-09-2007, 04:03 PM
Let me begin by saying hello everyone :D I have been thinking, I have the same board and re-ran the wires and I thought what about adding an additional motion sensor, lets say soldered to the board. Would I swing my saber and the other motion sensor register the swing and get the lightsaber swing from the board or would this work? Just trying to get as much realism as possible

Marsupial
04-09-2007, 07:54 PM
That specific board is made with 2 inputs:
-ON/OFF pushbutton
-Clash contact


I don't think you could alter it to have a swing sound on command. That's the main backdraw of this board.

If anyone knows a way to hack it into that, I'm all ears. ;)

DruidsNightMare
04-09-2007, 08:10 PM
thanks Mars where are the sounds stored any way? I always wondered that

DruidsNightMare
04-11-2007, 10:02 AM
Ok I have been toying around with the SB and figured out the spots to put a force resonator. There are actually 2 spots on this board. one for clash only and another for blade start, clash, hum, and stop if anyone would like to see i took pix but will have to scale them P.S. Sry for the double posting but I thought this was a subject to itself.

Dminor
05-01-2007, 11:43 PM
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i259/vortextwist/light%20saber%20pics/newlightsabers007-1.jpg

This is the same unit that I had inside of my kenner saber.

My question, and forgive my wiring ignorance, how do you wire this up since there is an on/off switch in the board itself? Can I just piggyback the battery line off of the battery pack?

I'm sure I'll have more questions that will make you all go "jeez, this guy needs to read an elementary wiring/electronics manual" but since I'm only going to be making a saber, I figured I'd just come to the source.

Thanks in advance.

Marsupial
05-02-2007, 08:30 AM
I stupidly connected the led on the "LAMP" wires, with proper resistors or buckpuck or whatever you want to use. The circuit will act as the ON/OFF switch, and you'll have a flashy turn on sequence in bonus.

Dminor
05-02-2007, 05:44 PM
huh?

I purchased the basic battery pack kit for my LED saber setup, which already comes with the on/off, I just want to know how one goes about bypassing the on/off of the kenner sound module and how it would tie into the basic electronics kit.

Thanks, and forgive me if I missed the fact that you did in fact answer my question, but I'm just THAT ignorant about wiring. lol

Marsupial
05-02-2007, 07:35 PM
what you want to do is to replace the on/off switch of the kit you bought by the Kenner sound board.









The circuit will act as the ON/OFF switch.

Dminor
05-02-2007, 08:43 PM
[quote="Marsupial"]what you want to do is to replace the on/off switch of the kit you bought by the Kenner sound board.

ok, so I got this kit:

http://www.thecustomsabershop.com/images/PRODUCT/medium/781.jpg

and you're saying that rather than use the on/off from the kit, to use the on/off that's hardwired directly into the circuit board?

I don't see how that would be possible, since it's directly embedded into the circuitboard.[/img]

erv
05-02-2007, 10:00 PM
I won't use the term "embedded" in this case. Switches used on MR or this kenner board are just soldered with wires to the PCB. There is no obstacle to keep the same on-off button, or to unsolder it for replacement however :
- if the kenner board can handle the current of your luxeon, then, the resistor + luxeon is wired in place of the lamp (5 post above), you keep the same stock switch, exactly wired like it is on the kenner board.
- or you need an external drive for the LED, kenner board and luxeon+resistor circuit being in //. In this case, you'll need a double contact row switch, one for switching kenner board on, the other for the luxeon circuit. The MR switches, I think, have this double set of independant contacts, even if only one set is used.

Dminor
05-02-2007, 10:17 PM
Here's the backside of the kenner board with the rubber on/off "button"

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/190/482289433_faef4bcedd_m.jpg

Here it is without the rubber push button for the on/off

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/178/482289439_b94f09806f_m.jpg

if you ask me, it looks embedded, since there's a little pad inside of the rubber on/off button that makes the connection, without it, it's my understanding that the unit will not turn on.

Thoughts?


Thanks to everyone who's chimed in on this!

Jay-gon Jinn
05-02-2007, 10:27 PM
You should be able to solder some wires to to the board to bypass the integrated switch. Follow the traces to identify where each one leads, then solder a wire to each one of the traces for the integrated switch. You did get a momentary switch in the kit, right? Hasbros won't work with a click on/click off switch.

erv
05-03-2007, 12:03 AM
okay, I moderate slightly my words :D it's "a bit" embedded, but it's just an electrical contact made out of 2 poles, connected with a carbon-rubber button.
As said in the post above, 2 wires soldered to an external switch will work in 10 sec. Once properly soldered, put some hot glue on the assembly.

Marsupial
05-03-2007, 10:18 AM
as they say. I did wire an external switch to this board. It works. You only need to choose where you solder it (look at there the traces go)

note: it uses a momentary switch, you might have problems with a latching on/off switch.

as for supporting the current, if you read the thread, you'll see I use 4AA and a luxeon III with no problems so far.

JediCarpet
12-01-2014, 12:03 PM
Apologies for digging up an old thread, but I found my old Kenner and I was thinking of using it for sound in my next build. Hopefully someone familiar with this setup is still around who can help. I think the capacitor on the board is toast, so if I can get it working again it'll be a good addition to what was going to be a stunt. (Otherwise I might just swipe my brother's ;)

A few questions specific to the build:
1) Would the clash sensor in the storeadequately replace the clash sensor that comes with it? That spring in there is huge! http://www.thecustomsabershop.com/Clash-Sensor-SW-18020P-P485.aspx

2) As was said in the first post, the speaker is a 0.25W 8ohm. Could that be replaced with a 1.5W 8 ohm speaker? Again, trying to replace that massive thing something huge with something that will fit in my hilt.

3) Will this (and an amber Rebel @ 700 mA) run off a pair of NiMH AAs in series? (originally 2C batteries in series) Or would it be better to go up to a 3.7V lithium? I'm going for as short a hilt as I can manage for this build (6-8" total length) so I wasn't planning on doing a recharge port. Could always wire it and stuff it in, and open the pommel to charge...

4) Also wondering if I can drive the LED off the board as is or if I should resistor it separately.

I'm also half considering if I need to rebuild the entire board onto a smaller platform...but that's only if I want to be ambitious. I don't know if I need to be there yet.

JediCarpet
01-08-2015, 09:07 AM
I did some experimenting and here are the answers, in case anyone else is interested in the future:

1) Waiting for that part to arrive so I can test it, but based on my research into the part I believe it will work.
2) Used a 2W 8 ohm 28mm speaker. It is a different sound, for sure. A bit louder than the massive one that came with it.
3) 3.7V Lithium works great.
4) Resistored it separately and it works perfectly.

On a side note, I also got one of the new Hasbro sabers on sale (half price!) and despite a 4.5V requirement from the AAA batteries, it works fine on a 3.7V lithium. It looks very different from anything I've seen on the tutorials around here, and I've hit a bit of a road bump in using it until I can get a good multimeter to figure out some of the circuitry. Basically the clash effect is wired through the negatives on the circuit board itself, so it isn't as easy as just slapping in a new main LED.